[EOL] PSU Tier List rev. 14.8

[Ary]

It's recommended to buy an used PSU?, someone is selling a Corsair gs700 for $75(usd), according to him, it was never used.

[Constantin]

On 10/23/2019 at 8:15 PM, LukeSavenije said:

Tier D+ - Potentially dangerous, but only in rather unrealistic situations

• Aerocool Project 7
• Antec Earthwatts Pro Gold - Earthwatts Pro Platinum - High Current Gamer Gold - Neo Eco Gold - High Current Gamer Extreme
• EVGA G3 - G5 1000w
• Enermax Revolution SFX
• FSP Dagger Pro
• Seasonic Focus FM - Focus Plus FX
• Silverstone SFX gold - Strider Gold Evo - Gold Evolution - Strider Gold S
• Superflower Leadex III 650w

Seasonic Focus plus gold SFX in Tier D...... I don't think you know that much of PSU's

Totally invalid!!!!

[Meganter]

1 hour ago, Constantin said:

Seasonic Focus plus gold SFX in Tier D...... I don't think you know that much of PSU's

Totally invalid!!!!

Do you?

[Constantin]

6 minutes ago, Plouffe said:

Do you?

Yes!

I am not an electrician, but observing over 25 years the progress (not to mention that Seasonic makes only PSU's) 

They are the more reliable!

[LukeSavenije]

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

Seasonic Focus plus gold SFX

where do you read that in the first place? sgx is in tier a

 

and if you're an engineer, you should know that 268mv is bad, that it has enough reason to stay there, and that it being seasonic or you owning won't save it from that. they fixed it in the 2019 version, but the 2017 is staying there

[Constantin]

4 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

they fixed it in the 2019 version

I have the 2020 (2019) version anyways...

[LukeSavenije]

7 minutes ago, Constantin said:

I have the 2020 (2019) version anyways...

i mean... generally you list it by gx then, but alright

[Juular]

2 hours ago, Constantin said:

Seasonic Focus plus gold SFX in Tier D...... I don't think you know that much of PSU's

Totally invalid!!!!

Looks like notes on detiered units didn't help much, @LukeSavenije maybe you should add a word in red under tier D+ for bulls like this ? 'Those are detiered units, look for notes under spoiler for more info'

[Nlelith]

Is there any way to make sure that PSU won't have coil whine (or at least have less of it compared to my current one) before buying? I upgraded my GPU recently (GTX980->RTX2080Ti), and now my PSU emits coil whine (buzzing type) while under load from demanding games. It doesn't bother me much, but it's a good cause to replace an old PSU (FSP Epsilon 80Plus 1010). Still, I'm not sure if that's worth it in case new one will have the same problem.

[LukeSavenije]

1 hour ago, Nlelith said:

Is there any way to make sure that PSU won't have coil whine (or at least have less of it compared to my current one) before buying?

look for something with a half or a full bridge llc resonant converter. these are psus from tier a, a+ and s

[Sapphiree]

4 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

where do you read that in the first place? sgx is in tier a

 

and if you're an engineer, you should know that 268mv is bad, that it has enough reason to stay there, and that it being seasonic or you owning won't save it from that. they fixed it in the 2019 version, but the 2017 is staying there

Same story again...you rely on one bad test on pceva out of dozens of good ones, secondly you recently agreed with me about the Asus Strix which is Focus FX based and i proved you that there are no high ripples even on 130% load, then you moved it to higher tier - so you should do the same with other Focus based psu's.

[Fasauceome]

7 hours ago, Constantin said:

Yes!

I am not an electrician, but observing over 25 years the progress (not to mention that Seasonic makes only PSU's) 

They are the more reliable!

I'm not an electrician either. I'm an electrical engineering student

 

So I can say with complete confidence that you don't know anything about power supplies, and have the math and science to prove it!

[Fasauceome]

2 hours ago, Kaygooo said:

you rely on one bad test on pceva out of dozens of good ones

The good tests don't make the bad power supplies good.

 

No matter what favorable reviews the on focus, the fact remains that tons of users that actually got it and used it with their Vegas or 1080 tis or whatever and actually had this shutdown problem, so it wasn't just somebody unrealistically loading the power supply, people who actually bought a 750 watt unit with a Vega 56 were having shutdowns.

 

The sole fact that people in the "don't buy the seasonic focus" topic are saying "can confirm" in regards to PSU shutdowns means it's a problem. If there was never an issue, why the hell did Seasonic push out a fix and a revised model?

[Nlelith]

4 hours ago, LukeSavenije said:

look for something with a half or a full bridge llc resonant converter. these are psus from tier a, a+ and s

Thanks! I'm on the other side of the world from US, and most of the stuff available here isn't on the tier list. Is it possible to determine if PSU is half- or full-bridge on my own? I have yet to see a review or official website specs that mention this type of info.

[Juular]

3 minutes ago, Nlelith said:

Thanks! I'm on the other side of the world from US, and most of the stuff available here isn't on the tier list. Is it possible to determine if PSU is half- or full-bridge on my own? I have yet to see a review or official website specs that mention this type of info.

If there's even no official website with specs or anything then chances are that's some old-ass group regulated shit, where are you from anyway and what PSU model\name you're talking about ?

[Nlelith]

1 minute ago, Juular said:

If there's even no official website with specs or anything then chances are that's some old-ass group regulated shit, where are you from anyway and what PSU model\name you're talking about ?

Kazakhstan. I didn't say there isn't a website, just that bridge configuration isn't mentioned anywhere (which is also true for many official PSU webpages for tier A and above in OP). Here's a model I'm looking at currently.

[LukeSavenije]

8 minutes ago, Nlelith said:

Kazakhstan. I didn't say there isn't a website, just that bridge configuration isn't mentioned anywhere (which is also true for many official PSU webpages for tier A and above in OP). Here's a model I'm looking at currently.

aerocool kcas isn't even in any way comparable to the units from tier a, as it would likely fall around tier c-d from a quick estimation

[Nlelith]

21 minutes ago, LukeSavenije said:

aerocool kcas isn't even in any way comparable to the units from tier a, as it would likely fall around tier c-d from a quick estimation

Well, guess I'll have to find something that is on the list and also available here, then. Thank you.

[Juular]

1 hour ago, Nlelith said:

Kazakhstan. I didn't say there isn't a website, just that bridge configuration isn't mentioned anywhere (which is also true for many official PSU webpages for tier A and above in OP). Here's a model I'm looking at currently.

Then i'd recommend getting smth decent from Russia if possible or ordering from US\EU market through parcel forward service, i'm from Uzbekistan myself, newer Aerocool KCAS (RGB, 80+ Gold ones) are probably double-forward at most (i.e whining with high-load GPUs), comparable to tier B units, but i couldn't find anything close on local markets, everything we have here would be barely good for some low-load GPUs like GTX1660 maybe, not by any means for RTX2080 Ti. I've seen some PSUs from FSP too but not sure which models exactly as they were too expensive to consider. Overall my Corsair RM750x cost me around ~40$ to ship from US through parcel delivery service (~8$ per kilogram of weight), you'll be fine with 650W or even 550W unit with RTX2080 Ti if it's only for gaming (i.e you don't high-load simultaneously on high-end CPU and GPU), that'll total for about 140-150$ here buying tier A units like Corsair RMx. Also, Deepcool recently released very good PSU, Deepcool DQ-M (it's on the same platform as Bitfenix Whisper, very good quality one), i'm not sure if it's available in Kazakhstan (it's not here in Uzbekistan) so if there's a way to buy if from say Russia (where it's priced very competitively) it's a completely acceptable alternative to shipping from US.

Edit: Aerocool has high-end PSU, Aerocool Project 7 too which might be available for relatively low price too (at least in Russia) but there's numerous reports that it has high failure rate \ issues with fan controller.

[Juular]

BTW, here's KCAS Plus guts, maybe someone could identify what platform this is and what it's comparable to (all i can say that it's DC-DC) ?

@jonnyGURU@OrionFOTL?

https://overclockers.ru/lab/show/94169/obzor-i-test-obnovlennogo-bloka-pitaniya-aerocool-kcas-plus-600w

[Nlelith]

1 hour ago, Juular said:

Then i'd recommend getting smth decent from Russia if possible or ordering from US\EU market through parcel forward service, i'm from Uzbekistan myself, newer Aerocool KCAS (RGB, 80+ Gold ones) are probably double-forward at most (i.e whining with high-load GPUs), comparable to tier B units, but i couldn't find anything close on local markets, everything we have here would be barely good for some low-load GPUs like GTX1660 maybe, not by any means for RTX2080 Ti.

It's OK, I do have several options from tier A available locally, and even one from tier A+ (BeQuiet Straight Power 11). I'll probably compile a short list later and ask for advice here then. Thanks for all the info.

[Satan_Prometheus]

Maybe this has been asked before, but is there any easy way to differentiate between Focus-based units that are susceptible to the OCP issue, and those where the issue has been fixed? It'd be nice to have a list because sometimes I recommend something like the Phanteks AMP series and immediately get hit with a "DON'T BUY THAT IT'S FOCUS-BASED HAS OCP ISSUE" even though I'm pretty sure it's fixed in the AMP.

[Juular]

29 minutes ago, Satan_Prometheus said:

Maybe this has been asked before, but is there any easy way to differentiate between Focus-based units that are susceptible to the OCP issue, and those where the issue has been fixed? It'd be nice to have a list because sometimes I recommend something like the Phanteks AMP series and immediately get hit with a "DON'T BUY THAT IT'S FOCUS-BASED HAS OCP ISSUE" even though I'm pretty sure it's fixed in the AMP.

If it's Focus FX\FM then it has issues, and units based off it like Antec Earthwatts & HCG, except NZXT E-series and possibly ASUS Strix. Also Riotoro G2 has OCP tripping point of 110% whereas high-ripple issues were observed at 130%. Newer revision, Focus GX presumably has these issues fixed and units based off it, like Phanteks AMP.  Also, it's possible that newer ASUS Strix revisions are based on Focus GX, since there are reviews of it that don't show high-ripple at 130% overload. But really, high-ripple at 130% load isn't observable under normal operating conditions, what is observable is general instability with high power draw GPUs, there are numerous reports even on this forum alone, so maybe high-ripple doesn't appear only on 130% ? Either way, newer revision seems fine user feedback-wise so Phanteks AMP should be good.

[Satan_Prometheus]

2 minutes ago, Juular said:

If it's Focus FX\FM then it has issues, units based off it too (like Antec Earthwatts & HCG, except NZXT E-series and possibly ASUS Strix, also Riotoro G2 has OCP tripping point of 110% whereas high-ripple issues were observed at 130%), newer revision. Focus GX presumably has these issues fixed and units based off it (like Phanteks AMP). But really, high-ripple at 130% load isn't observable under normal operating conditions, what is observable is general instability with high power draw GPUs, there are numerous reports even on this forum alone, so maybe high-ripple doesn't appear only on 130% ? Either way, newer revision seems fine so Phanteks AMP are good.

Right, I guess my frustration is that oftentimes reviews don't say whether a unit is FX or GX-based, for example:

 

https://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/phanteks-amp-750-power-supply-review/4/

 

Just says "Focus Plus Gold"

 

Is there a resource out there that's more specific?

[LukeSavenije]

1 minute ago, Satan_Prometheus said:

Just says "Focus Plus Gold"

kitguru was off there already, calling it a "modified" focus, while it was a gx. this they corrected with a whole explanation around the px, with what they fixed

 

the seasonic version is clearly visible, as this is the old one

 

and this is the new one

 

another difference would be that the new one meets atx 2.52, the other only 2.4

 

though production of the old 2017 versions has stopped for what i know, but seasonic doesn't release any statements surrounding oems, only for themselves.

 

also, e-series is unaffected from the start, since it used a dedicated ocp rail (which it needed for current monitoring, but ended up better than expected)

 

amp is indeed a gx, strix is likely, but i'm still not getting any confirmation from asus to this day