LTT Conglomerate main discussion thread

[xxrod17xx]

Comunism is impossible to implement due to the nature of human beings. That's it biggest problem and the only reason why it will never work, sadly.

This is not communism, you make your own money, but a small % goes to fund the org and allows us to control areas of space, protect ourselves, buy mining facilities and ships.  If there is a game mechanic where we have taxes that go to the org every time you complete a mission (which ixi thinks there is), then I think its democracy with capitalism.  I know I am going to work my ass off to make a ton of money, Im cool with sharing some of it for the betterment of the org.

 

As long as the people taking care of the finances are open about how much we have and what we are spending it on (maybe we have a straw poll once a week/month/bi-monthly about what the allocate the funds to) then I think things will be just fine.  We should have goals about what to do with the Org funds, like hey we need to purchase a Hangar is this system...it costs this much, and save for it, and so on.

[xxrod17xx]

 

Honestly the only situation I can think of where we would need to chip in together is to buy assest everyone can use like hangars, bases and motherships. But that is something that should always be up for vote before we make a purchase, and then we would divide the investment equally amongst every member to buy the asset (say a hangar is 300.000$, and we have 3000 members - every member pays 100$ and the conglomerate buys a hangar for everyone to use).

 

I think this is an extremely good system of handling and FEEs that the org might have.  There is no sense in constantly taking every month a set fee if we have nothing to spend it on and then just build up a HUGE surplus that could be compromised (don't forget all the espionage talk in recent youtube videos).  If we decide to buy a node, via a vote or whatever system we have, then we use org funds if we need more, we asses the org members...just like a condo association.  The board decides what the condo needs and then proceeds to asses all of the  members to help pay for it.

[capta1n_beans]

I have not heard much talk about piracy... How will we go about that? I am going to be involved in piracy so I really wat to know how piracy will be taken in the org and what I can do to benefit the org with successful pirate operations.

[AlexGoesHigh]

I have not heard much talk about piracy... How will we go about that? I am going to be involved in piracy so I really wat to know how piracy will be taken in the org and what I can do to benefit the org with successful pirate operations.

that because the higher ups decided we won't do piracy within the org because of how big we are, the closest thing would be bounty contracts for freelancers and org members,there's more details that ixi can fill in about the subject

[ixi_your_face]

 

I have not heard much talk about piracy... How will we go about that? I am going to be involved in piracy so I really wat to know how piracy will be taken in the org and what I can do to benefit the org with successful pirate operations.

 

 

we don't have pirates, we have mercenaries

[Caito]

we don't have pirates, we have mercenaries

Just to clear it up, they are the same yeah?

Cause there is a piracy option in the poll and one of the big things about LTTC is that everyone can be anything.

[rucdoc]

we have no pirates, they are privateers, Linus has given them proper papers of mark for our enemies.

[A/C]

We benefit by having an Org that is able to do things, the main battle I foresee is funding in the beginning of the game. we need to be fast in order to purchase prime nodes, trade platforms, star maps, etc. while other orgs are trying to find the cash if we have it available we win.

 

I agree that it should not be only a few people benefiting, should it start heading in that direction I will ditch and run! not that I would want to but... What might be an idea if possible is to have an equal profit share every month or so for players that played through that entire period, each member gets a share of the profit, this is minus running costs, some self investment and so on. This is somewhat business like and we all gain a bit above the benifits of the org. Something like a small tax rebate

 

The ships I could see as being owned either by the org itself and controlled by the council or by the council players themselves (I assume we should be able to trust them) CRoberts has already stated that lending out ships will be a thing so that is how they would be used, as to who will fly them well if you have 1000 more kills than me then hell you will be in the hotseat buddy, at least in my mind. Possibly on a first come first serve basis, if you are slow on the uptake then shame.

 

The asking for help thing never works, at least not for me... I never ask I would rather go grind a bit than start trying to beg for credits, that is just me. even though I am happy to help others. You profit more by giving the org money by the sheer fact that you are in the org, I will sell to org members for a discount I ave heard others say the same this is one example where less cost = more profit.

 

again crowd funding and asking for donations to buy key things like a hanger is meh, if you have ever tried to get people to donate it is hard. for instance I used to run a few game servers and even wiht regular players if I put up a donation link I would only get maybe one or two small donations and they would all use the facility, I know not the best similarity but it sort of fits.

 

Otherwise I think we are hashing out a lot of great ideas and getting things out on the table.

 

 

I know I am going to work my ass off to make a ton of money, Im cool with sharing some of it for the betterment of the org.

 

As long as the people taking care of the finances are open about how much we have and what we are spending it on (maybe we have a straw poll once a week/month/bi-monthly about what the allocate the funds to) then I think things will be just fine.  We should have goals about what to do with the Org funds, like hey we need to purchase a Hangar is this system...it costs this much, and save for it, and so on.

 

...If we decide to buy a node, via a vote or whatever system we have, then we use org funds if we need more, we asses the org members...just like a condo association.  The board decides what the condo needs and then proceeds to asses all of the  members to help pay for it.

 

Yeah, tnx guys. This is the sort of discussion I'm looking for. You had some great ideas and explanations for me today.

 

If we go with the idea @b45op mentioned above It would make sense to have high taxes at the start of the game so we can be the first to buy all the best places in PU, and not spending that money buying ships. I know it's gonna be hard to give much money every week or so at the start of the game when we don't have much money but I think it's the only way we can get our hands on some prime properties, which is very important ofc. After that we can gradually decrease the crowd funding to ba bare minimum of what is needed for the upkeep.

 

Then after a while, when we pretty much bought everything we needed immediately we can switch to the model I and @xxrod17xx talked about.

 

EDIT: @b45op - when I mentioned "help" I didn't mean financial help, but brute force help in a sense that if a stronger player is bullying you, you call upon other members of your org and they come to kick ass for you - that simple

[rentaspoon]

we don't have pirates, we have mercenaries

Awww-puts away pirate hat-

white body, orange necklace, just a suggestion

Yeah if you look at the gun it's pretty bear (pun intended), I wanted to do everything so that people can download it and adjust it for themselves but I've got a Linus/Slick edition in the works as well as a Func Man version.I'm also working on a @b45op avatar version but skinning is what I'm good at so this will end up on my Aurora.

[ixi_your_face]

I'm sorry but I fail to see how we all benefit from everyone paying fees reguraly. I'm gonna sound like a devil's advocate now, but I find this is a very important issue, because there's a big possibility of someone misusing organization's resources for his own benefit. To whom do we pay? Who cares about our finances? There must be a way for everyone to be equal in rights. We can't select a few dozen or hundred people to benefit when everyone is paying an equal amount monthly.

 

Also, you say it's for ships, bases and insurance. Who will run those ships? If I'm part of the military branch do I get to run it or what's the plan on that front? That way, am I not able to do some of my own work with it thus earning something on the side with that ship which isn't mine at all? Same thing with the "inter-organization insurance" - I don't see how we could implement that so everyone is equal, we obviously can't reimburse everyone's destroyed ship without making the fees huge so what's the point if all members aren't equal in that aspect?

 

You say we are a company that works for profit, whose profit is that? Who benefits this? I don't see how I as an individual can profit monetary MORE from giving the conglomerate a cut, compared to if I do a job alone or with a couple of mates and split the earnings equally. It just seems like a mob racket to me "you pay for the ass protection".

 

On another note, you mention some people who choose not to participate in other org activities. Also, why should those people have the same monetary benefits as someone who works 5-6 hours a day for the conglomerate. I think everyone should just work for himself and if one of us needs help he first comes to other members and after we help eachother everyone gets his cut. - That simple.

 

I know I sound pessimistic, but I'm not negative. I feel this is a very important issue which we must adress ASAP because it has a lot of money involved and I don't think anyone here wants someone to get rich off of everyone else. The way I see it the best benefit we get from our conglomerate is the strenght in numbers and comeradership. I'll always be happy to help a fellow wingman when he gets into trouble with other organizations.

 

Honestly the only situation I can think of where we would need to chip in together is to buy assest everyone can use like hangars, bases and motherships. But that is something that should always be up for vote before we make a purchase, and then we would divide the investment equally amongst every member to buy the asset (say a hangar is 300.000$, and we have 3000 members - every member pays 100$ and the conglomerate buys a hangar for everyone to use).

 

The monthly amount is just for startup funds, and like everything else; an idea. And like i've said before, taxes are fixed, membership fees, are not.

 

Who will run the ships? Council will.

The other questions on that paragraph are just plain silly. Org insurance was an idea. An example of what we could do with funds.

 

The profit is the org's. Everyone benefits from a rich org. Rich org, means more stations/hideouts/sponsored exploration. Example : If a org sponsored expidition finds a really huge asteroid field, ripe for the picking, who're they gonna give the star maps to first? The org.

 

They don't.

 

Asking for money is all fine and well. But when you have 1300+ members at your disposal, there's no need. Income tax is a simple and effective way of collecting money to benefit the org, and in turn, every member.

 

My worry was the rich kid getting to play with all the toys whilst the rest fight it out for that one shabby toy.

As for the rich kid look at who you have on the high council I wouldn't call (those that I've spoken to) dishonest enough to run with the money.

Also it looks bad on the forum if we get a bad name for ourselves.

I do believe in strength by numbers but I also believe that communism would work given the leaders wouldn't go corrupt.

 

 

This is not communism, you make your own money, but a small % goes to fund the org and allows us to control areas of space, protect ourselves, buy mining facilities and ships.  If there is a game mechanic where we have taxes that go to the org every time you complete a mission (which ixi thinks there is), then I think its democracy with capitalism.  I know I am going to work my ass off to make a ton of money, Im cool with sharing some of it for the betterment of the org.

 

As long as the people taking care of the finances are open about how much we have and what we are spending it on (maybe we have a straw poll once a week/month/bi-monthly about what the allocate the funds to) then I think things will be just fine.  We should have goals about what to do with the Org funds, like hey we need to purchase a Hangar is this system...it costs this much, and save for it, and so on.

 

Finances will probably be a need to know basis with updates on how we're doing financially. I do plan on asking members what they would like to buy though.

 

I think this is an extremely good system of handling and FEEs that the org might have.  There is no sense in constantly taking every month a set fee if we have nothing to spend it on and then just build up a HUGE surplus that could be compromised (don't forget all the espionage talk in recent youtube videos).  If we decide to buy a node, via a vote or whatever system we have, then we use org funds if we need more, we asses the org members...just like a condo association.  The board decides what the condo needs and then proceeds to asses all of the  members to help pay for it.

 

First of all, let me assure you that nobody whatsoever will have access to the org bank other than the HC members. The fixed fee, as said above is an idea, and can change. Surplus is a good thing. Emergency cash is a much needed thing.

 

Yeah, tnx guys. This is the sort of discussion I'm looking for. You had some great ideas and explanations for me today.

 

If we go with the idea @b45op mentioned above It would make sense to have high taxes at the start of the game so we can be the first to buy all the best places in PU, and not spending that money buying ships. I know it's gonna be hard to give much money every week or so at the start of the game when we don't have much money but I think it's the only way we can get our hands on some prime properties, which is very important ofc. After that we can gradually decrease the crowd funding to ba bare minimum of what is needed for the upkeep.

 

Then after a while, when we pretty much bought everything we needed immediately we can switch to the model I and @xxrod17xx talked about.

 

EDIT: @b45op - when I mentioned "help" I didn't mean financial help, but brute force help in a sense that if a stronger player is bullying you, you call upon other members of your org and they come to kick ass for you - that simple

 

Taxes will not go away. They're staying regardless. If there's one thing i've learned from playing EVE, it's that you can never let your guard down. Because if you do, BAM. you get hit by something. And we need a large surplus for those moments. 

 

I don't know about you, but %10 is tiny. A high tax rate would be low 30's to mid 40's.

 

taking funding down to a bare minimum is a bad idea, plain and simple. What if we suddenly get put into a state of war? What if we're randomly attacked? what if something happens that we cant handle since we're running at a bare minimum. I personally always want to be ready, for anything. A large surplus of cash will help us do that.

[A/C]

Taxes will not go away. They're staying regardless. If there's one thing i've learned from playing EVE, it's that you can never let your guard down. Because if you do, BAM. you get hit by something. And we need a large surplus for those moments. 

 

I don't know about you, but %10 is tiny. A high tax rate would be low 30's to mid 40's.

 

taking funding down to a bare minimum is a bad idea, plain and simple. What if we suddenly get put into a state of war? What if we're randomly attacked? what if something happens that we cant handle since we're running at a bare minimum. I personally always want to be ready, for anything. A large surplus of cash will help us do that.

 

You put up a reasonable argument, and I'm inclined to agree with everything but the tax rate, 30-40% of all income is a huge amount to hit an average player with. Everyone wants to enjoy the game for himself from time to time, and most people don't intend to work for the organization 100% of the time, and high taxes would probably mean most people would jump the boat very soon, then we'd have a bigger problem on our hands - lack of hands.

 

That said everything still remains to be seen in the management department, I trust you guys with running this gig don't get me wrong...

 

What we need to do now is enjoy the DFM presentation and root for Luke at the build-off https://twitter.com/Cavkic/status/453805954539470848 

 

 

EDIT:

 

we don't have pirates, we have mercenaries 

 

We need to change our manifesto over at our ORG page, "icluding piracy" still stands there in the briefing section.

[b45op]

You put up a reasonable argument, and I'm inclined to agree with everything but the tax rate, 30-40% of all income is a huge amount to hit an average player with. Everyone wants to enjoy the game for himself from time to time, and most people don't intend to work for the organization 100% of the time, and high taxes would probably mean most people would jump the boat very soon, then we'd have a bigger problem on our hands - lack of hands.

 

That said everything still remains to be seen in the management department, I trust you guys with running this gig don't get me wrong...

 

What we need to do now is enjoy the DFM presentation and root for Luke at the build-off https://twitter.com/Cavkic/status/453805954539470848 

 

The tax would be around 10% ixi was I believe giving an example of a silly high tax rate with the 30-40%, unless he is also the rutheless cutthroat leader of the hidden ltt piracy org

 

Bring on the DFM!!!!

[rentaspoon]

When is the DFM out?

[b45op]

When is the DFM out?

 

The announcement is at PAX this weekend if my thinking is correct. it will probably be out for us sometime just after, unless they try do a live release flip the switch thing. I haven't really been keeping up with it this week though.

[ixi_your_face]

We need to change our manifesto over at our ORG page, "icluding piracy" still stands there in the briefing section.

 

Nobody understands my winkey face

 

What B45op said, the 30-40% numbers were examples of what would be high. Not what would be enforced. 

[massiveturkey]

WOW. This thread from from happy daisy land to World War 37 quickly....

[rentaspoon]

Nobody understands my winkey face

I thought you where getting a twitch

WOW. This thread from from happy daisy land to World War 37 quickly....

No, I think that some people want this org as a organisation and others as a group that meet up and help each other out.

I'm putting my faith in ixi as I have no doubt he has everybody's interest at heart

[massiveturkey]

I thought you where getting a twitch

No, I think that some people want this org as a organisation and others as a group that meet up and help each other out.

I'm putting my faith in ixi as I have no doubt he has everybody's interest at heart

In Ixi we trust?

[rentaspoon]

In Ixi we trust?

Someone needs to put that on a dollar bill

[A/C]

Nah brah, there's a thin like between discussion and argument, and I'm not very good at walking it... In any case the 10% is beyond reasonable in my book.

 

@ixi_your_face I'm obviously blind for not taking the hint there, I should have known better.

 

EDIT:

The announcement is at PAX this weekend if my thinking is correct. it will probably be out for us sometime just after, unless they try do a live release flip the switch thing. I haven't really been keeping up with it this week though.

 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere it sould be out within the next 2 weeks after PAX. But don't quote me on that.

[massiveturkey]

Someone needs to put that on a dollar bill

 

?

[b45op]

WOW. This thread from from happy daisy land to World War 37 quickly....

 

No simply a bit of spirited conversation, and confirmation of ideas.

 

 

I thought you where getting a twitch

No, I think that some people want this org as a organisation and others as a group that meet up and help each other out.

I'm putting my faith in ixi as I have no doubt he has everybody's interest at heart

 

Yeah Ixi seems to have the right idea. This is a Conglomerate not a social book club we can have fun and chat while being successful.

 

 

In Ixi we trust?

 

All hail the ixi! hummmmmmmmmmmm...

[A/C]

No simply a bit of spirited conversation, and confirmation of ideas.

Yeah Ixi seems to have the right idea. This is a Conglomerate not a social book club we can have fun and chat while being successful.

 

Basically this. "Confirmation of ideas" is putting it mildly

[b45op]

?

- Snip great big picture -

 

It might be better on a scottish note

[Artofinca]

ye sorry for the off-topic

but i think the poster of the organization is ready

http://www.wipnation.com/posts?PostKey=11240

tell me what you think