The real reason why Apple removed the Jack. And why u still haven't figured it out yet.

[TheReal_ist]

1 hour ago, kirashi said:

Sadly, you're right about this part - the consumers who make up most of the mainstream purchasing market inherently govern the entire market, which makes it damn near impossible for those of us who actually have specific requirements in a product to look elsewhere our of convenience sake.

Um... yes, actually we can. And the best part is, we can have wireless at the same time - it's called BlueTooth, and it's been a part of most mobile phones since the early 2000's or earlier. One does not have to strip wired functionality from a device to implement wireless functionality.

Best selling (by way of market share) does not by any respects mean best sounding, best for convenience, best for cross-compatibility, or any other form of best that would be objective. Granted, AirPods are pretty damn awesome subjectively if you live in an Apple household due to the seamless integration & handoff between devices, but objectively they're far from the best way to enjoy music, movies, or audio calls on a mobile device, because everyone's ear are shaped & tuned to hear differently.

Partially correct; forcing change by removing a connectivity option is certainly one way to go about things. Apple made sure a lot of people will never buy another one of their headphone jack-less products, while at the same time introduced the idiotically confusing world of BlueTooth audio to mass market consumers. There's good and bad here, because you're right that many consumers won't upgrade until they're forced, but at the same time many consumers genuinely need legacy connectivity for a variety of reasons, as you'll read about in my reply to the next section.

While I cannot speak for tech YouTubers, I can indeed speak for my own personal needs: My car's BlueTooth does not always work, and only supports pairing one device at a time if I don't want to have to perform CPR on the factory radio (because it's a piece of shit), but it does support AUX in by way of 3.5mm jack. This is great because a 3.5mm jack allows me to fallback to a legacy standard that literally just works (unlike BlueTooth's inability to work as advertised) even when friends want to pop-on their tunes when we're on an adventure. Now, if phone companies offered to replace my car stereo with one that wasn't a potato, I wouldn't be complaining, but I have yet to find a phone company willing to do this, so until then, no phones without headphone jacks for me.

 

Another small but important reason for headphone jacks is that non-AirPod BlueTooth pairing (so literally any BlueTooth device other than AirPods) is anything but seamless. Let's say I want to seamlessly switch my Logitech UE9000 headphones from my iPad I was using on the back deck to my OnePlus 5T phone in my pocket because I'm going to listen to tunes while doing the dishes, then switch over to my Dell XPS 15 laptop for an evening work session. All of these devices are priced in the higher-end range, and all sport at least BT4.0 so I'm able to use aptX over A2DP, but that doesn't matter because unless I actually turn off BlueTooth on the prior device I was using my headphones with, I cannot make the headphones pair with another device. Mighty convenient - not, so many times I still plug in when listening around the house.

At least if they included the adapter in the box, I'd be able to listen reliably in my car before deciding to return the product because it's absurd that we're to use dongles in 2019 rather than simply having products designed properly in the first place. An electronic device is simply a tool that enables me to make my life more convenient by saving me time and energy doing something manually - if I now have to remember to bring dongles with me everywhere I go just to plugin a headphone jack, or worse - an SD card - then that piece of technology is no longer saving me time or reducing the complexity of my life, and therefore serves no purpose compared to a device that offers the connectivity options I require for work, play, or otherwise.

But that's exactly what this is - an example of Apple following their [business] principles by pushing people to a jack-less wireless future [where Apple now owns a huge percentage of the wireless headphone market by way of Beats audio], creating an anti-competitive closed ecosystem of segregated products that don't work seamlessly with each other despite supposedly following the BlueTooth standard.

 

To be clear, it's not just Apple doing this - all manufacturers are following suit, and therefore are all in the same sinking ship for me. My point isn't that manufacturer's can't make devices with or without features - it's that consumers aren't being given a choice in the matter. Without the awareness of choice, consumers could soon wind up purchasing cars that need to be thrown away at 12,000kms because you cannot change the oil due to the hood being welded shut, all because a manufacturer said this was better and no consumers stopped to ask questions.

 

I'll close with 2 articles demonstrating prime examples of why USB-C audio is broken, and why BlueTooth is far too "broken" in its' current form. Until all of these issues are rectified across ALL PLATFORMS (laptops, automobiles, desktop PCs, tablets, smarthome devices, and speakers) I'll forever be tied to products that utilize the one connection standard that just works: the 3.5mm audio jack.

 

 

 

Fuuuuuu I don't have the time to respond fully as I did to others rit now. I'll try later, but I answered most of these with my long posts to others. 

 

But I'll look at this further in a bit. 

[XR6]

6 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Apple removed the jack not to save room but more so as a philosophical reasoning

Not really, it was a business decision if anything. Like most big companies, whenever they get an opportunity to increase their profit margin they will go for it.

Apple will do whatever they want as long as they still get profit from their products. It could be overpricing, inconveniencing their consumers, etc., they don't mind.

 

6 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

 Thats why u need to force them to change, and that's EXACTLY what Apple did.

They did force their customers to change, however they didn't do it because they wanted people to move onto a wireless future, they did it so it'd boost the sales of AirPods.

Let's be honest, without Apple removing the headphone jack AirPods would not have sold as well as they have now.

 

3 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Its meant to to advance the industry.

Not in the slightest.

Apple couldn't give two s**ts about advancing the industry. Like I said previously, it was to boost the sales of their products.

Them removing the headphone jack was one step forward, two steps back. It just inconvenienced people, nobody really benefitted from it apart from Apple.

Now people have to either use adapters or hand over £150 to get some wireless earphones all because "it's the future". 

[mariushm]

they did it to remove analogue audio - for drm mostly.

now audio is digital, can be sent encrypted to headphones/speakers to only apple certified/licensed devices, so for regular folks no way to "rip" audio

apple can go and say hey movie companies, we have video protected with hdcp 2.x, audio encrypted as well... we have our own processors now, we use same processors on phones AND laptops so your content is protected and can be viewed by loads of people...forget about netflix and amazon..

 

they make more money by certifying devices. if they wanted to they could have replaces jack with an extra microusb or usb type-c and you could then plug usb headphones

headphones would show up as "generic stereo sound card" and chip would just send digital stream to usb, no need for analogue audio amplifier chips on board... there goes the "saves space on board" excuse.

[imreloadin]

The biggest reason is THEY WANT YOUR MONEY!!! Obviously they knew they were making their wireless earbuds before anyone else did and whats the best way to make it so your users need to buy them? That's right, remove what enabled the 90% of users from using othe listening devices! If they hadn't removed the jack then people would keep using whatever pair of wired headphones or earbuds they had already. When they can't use that anymore they might as well get the Apple version of their wireless earbuds since the phone doesn't have a jack anymore.

 

Also stop with the whole "philosophical" reasoning about why Apple did it. They're a business, all they want is your money. If they have to literally force people to give it to them through either buying a stupid dongle or a shiny ne pair of earbuds, they'll do it.

[IAmAndre]

I agree with your points, but none of these make this decision less stupid IMO. I'm using both wireless and wired headphones for different scenarios but I'm not even considering buying a phone with no headphone jack. As a customer, I want to have the option, and yes, the real reason is Apple wants your money.

[FakeNSA]

9 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

And dude that is fine u are fine to have your opinion as am I. So now worries lol, I'm not one of those hate filled blind fucks. 

 

I get why you would think thats why, but Apple for as long as they have been a thing. HAVE ALWAYS based there decisions on a long term philosophical idea. So while its easy to bash them for making "Such an obvious cash grab move" its honestly not what they are trying to do. Alrit let me explain. If apple wanted to make the most money from there users as u suspect right? What would they do well they'd keep them just happy enough to stay with them but ALSO make decisions to cost them tons of money right?

 

Great your following. Ok so they do all that, but u forget thats not what Apple is doing thats not what any company is doing. Rather Apple along with others are the opposite, yes they are doing things that anger you such as removing the CD drive, Firewire, the 30pin, and now the jack. Those aren't meant to squeeze u dry of money, if it were apple would change it every year, and people would still buy it.

 

But they don't and neither do others, what they do is make a goal and they then see alrit how can we achieve this while also getting everyone to move over with out much hassle. So where as u might think they didn't follow through on this "do as little possible to hurt the consumer". Sorry but u may think that but if everyone thought that, then the entire Apple consumer base would revolt. 

 

Seeing any patterns yet?? What I'm getting at is this opinion of yours might as well be valid. But it doesn't matter really, Apple convinced the users that matter aka the mainstream idiots. The ones who make up nearly 90% of every market, those are the ones to keep happy. Sorry to say but your not one of those people neither am I or ANYONE on this forum. WE are a niche that is what I'm getting at mate. U may believe all those things and in your techy mind they might be valid concerns but to the rest of the market they are not. 

 

 

 

It sucks but thats how it is, u just gotta stop fighting it as u are doing now. Trying to convince me of your stated things, it doesn't work not only cause I have my set in stone opinions as do u. But the bigger thing is that your basically:

 

Trying to make a Giant move his house where as u are an ant. It just isn't possible man, u gotta know when to give in and today is that day. 

 

Curious to see your response. Most don't take this well fyi but hey who knows. Maybe u will take well to being told u are inherently flawed as a human. lul 

Let me clarify my view after getting some much needed sleep. I think apple is acting on both the motivation I gave and the one you gave. Most people never notice the fact that the jack is gone, so in that sense apple succeeded. Also, they get to make lots of money selling adaptors (see only thunderbolt on macbooks.) This way, they create a market for their new product, create the user change they seek, and profit either direction people go.

 

Also, I know I am a bit of a "stubborn old man" yelling at kids with wireless headphones to get off of my lawn. But, I will buy products that have the jack as long as possible (looks at iphone se) because of the undeniable cost benefit of wired headphones. So yeah, if you don't care, thats fine! But this is my techie hill to die on.

[wasab]

Why they remove headphone jack:

They want to destroyed wired headphones which is both affordable, more reliable as in no loss of signal and sound stability, and also conserves both phones battery and use no battery. 

 

why Apple removes adaptor:

They are just being cheap. It has nothing to do with headphones. 

 

Why Apple removes charger:

again, they are just being cheap. 

[TheReal_ist]

10 hours ago, IAmAndre said:

I agree with your points, but none of these make this decision less stupid IMO. I'm using both wireless and wired headphones for different scenarios but I'm not even considering buying a phone with no headphone jack. As a customer, I want to have the option, and yes, the real reason is Apple wants your money.

Thats what Im trying to get across that it isn't stupid. They are doing this for the long term end game. Thats what many actually most can NOT or will not see. 

 

So while I see your point of thinking its stupid now, that may be the case in your head. But thats not the point. The point is we don't care what u think now because it will have been worth it a decade or 2 from now when u have perfect latency free wireless solutions. FYI when u are there because u now have hindsight u will realize "Damn Apple was right I'm glad I suffered then to get something much better in the end."

 

U may not think u will but I'm pretty sure your all happy when they got rid of the CD drive. If they hadn't storages wouldn't have advances fast enough to get where we are today. We would be behind but because we didn't dwell on things like the CD format for to long. The industry was able to advance much quicker. Its the same shit with the jack, I just wish more people could see the future that these irrelevant short term losses are being had for. Nothing is done just cause there is always a reason. 

 

And while sure ya Apple makes bank off the transition period. Higher up u know to the real Leaders of the company (aka Tim, Phil, those bloats). Those are the guys who have these philosophical ideas of where things. Go if u wanna be pissed at someone for the prices (Which u are rightfully so mad about) then bitch at the Share holders. They are the ones holding a metaphorical gun to the Philosophical ones heads. 

 

They are forced to make these greedy decisions. That is how public companies work, they lost there freedom when they went public. Thats how it goes mate. 

[TheReal_ist]

6 hours ago, wasab said:

Why they remove headphone jack:

They want to destroyed wired headphones which is both affordable, more reliable as in no loss of signal and sound stability, and also conserves both phones battery and use no battery. 

 

why Apple removes adaptor:

They are just being cheap. It has nothing to do with headphones. 

 

Why Apple removes charger:

again, they are just being cheap. 

Hmmm ok got it. I see where your getting these from now. Its your ideology relatively speaking of course. 

 

Ok what I mean is ya sure u can and most do say that Apple does it for the money. Thats easy honestly cuz everyone understands that bit, since everyone knows companies are greedy fuckers right?? Right.

 

 

 

But your missing the point of this topic i proposed. I get the money thing, I'm asking what u think about the philosophical bits I presented to you. If u don't think so why? The money reason isn't an answer thats been beaten to death already I want a new REASON. I gave u a new reason why I think this decision was just and right. 

 

So u should give a new one as to why its not. We both have our cliche obvious everyone knows answers. I want to spur new discussion on the matter. 

Thats the point. So please go on.

[TheReal_ist]

8 hours ago, Aelar_Nailo said:

Let me clarify my view after getting some much needed sleep. I think apple is acting on both the motivation I gave and the one you gave. Most people never notice the fact that the jack is gone, so in that sense apple succeeded. Also, they get to make lots of money selling adaptors (see only thunderbolt on macbooks.) This way, they create a market for their new product, create the user change they seek, and profit either direction people go.

 

Also, I know I am a bit of a "stubborn old man" yelling at kids with wireless headphones to get off of my lawn. But, I will buy products that have the jack as long as possible (looks at iphone se) because of the undeniable cost benefit of wired headphones. So yeah, if you don't care, thats fine! But this is my techie hill to die on.

I'm starting to see a much clearer view of why u guys believe its the money thing Only. Rather then just ITS for MONEY. Which is great to see, cuz its clarifying shit I never knew.

 

Great connection u made. Thats what i'm getting at ok so we all know Tim Cook, Phil, etc etc those are the ones I'm saying are the philosophical ones who are doing these changes for the greater good just as Steve was doing. 

 

The people that are saying "ya that shit is good but we want more money". IS drum roll................. the investors aka the greedy cucks who are holding a gun to Apples head. Cuz if they don't get more money then they put in, bu bye stock value. So they being Tim and Phil listen, and by listen I mean they charge up the ass for everything new when they make these changes. To appease stock holders, hence the price issue u all bring up. 

 

So while its easy to just say its for the money its not just that simple. Rarely is it ever funny enough. 

And thats my point I want to make for u techies out there me included who will scoff at Companies like Apple and say " greedy fuckers all of them". Thats true but there's more to it. And I hope I got u to at least see that bit.

 

Don't worry I have my things I won't budge on to lol. We all do. I'm just happy I'm not in control of the market. Or else we would be in a real SHITTT show. 

 

Sometimes u just gotta leave it up to the kids............

[TheReal_ist]

11 hours ago, imreloadin said:

The biggest reason is THEY WANT YOUR MONEY!!! Obviously they knew they were making their wireless earbuds before anyone else did and whats the best way to make it so your users need to buy them? That's right, remove what enabled the 90% of users from using othe listening devices! If they hadn't removed the jack then people would keep using whatever pair of wired headphones or earbuds they had already. When they can't use that anymore they might as well get the Apple version of their wireless earbuds since the phone doesn't have a jack anymore.

 

Also stop with the whole "philosophical" reasoning about why Apple did it. They're a business, all they want is your money. If they have to literally force people to give it to them through either buying a stupid dongle or a shiny ne pair of earbuds, they'll do it.

I mean u can disagree with my reasoning why its not just a money thing most will. I'm just trying to expand your view of companies, hence the philosophical explanation.

 

I'm not saying your wrong Apple is a business that is what they want. What I'm saying and it seems u are missing is that there are two parts to this entire equation.

 

- There is the money aspect of it which I'm guessing u do know this part is controlled by the investors who half apple at gun point Right? (I'm just say u do to make this simpler)

 

- And then theres the philosophical part. U may not believe this is a thing, but let me ask u this. If Apple just let the investors run wild with there plans to change shit every so often just to make u upgrade. (u know not for some reason like better technologies or something) Then how would these businesses stay afloat? Pretty sure I haven't seen a single tech company in the past 20 yrs that HASN"T contributed something to the market. 

 

Reason being if they didn't then they died out, Example Nokia, and blackberry. They stopped innovating and just kept selling the same shit and they went bankrupt for it. If u don't change things in just the right way (hence where my philosophical bit explanation comes to nicely explain why) then the companies will fail. 

 

 

 

 

That is what u are missing ya the money part is right no shit but its not that simple. There is a reason why they make changes at these specific times, its not just done to make more money if it was then bitch you would be able to tell. But u can't instead we are getting products that are missing legacy things not to make money but to push the industry forward. If they weren't doing this as some state then what would we get from them?? Hmmm

 

We would get products with changes to them BUTT they would have added nothing new. And yet for the past 20 yrs of releases every product that has removed something did it for a reason. Not because of money but because the old was shit and they wanted to add something NEW that wasn't shit.

 

 

 

 

 

Final thoughts:

What product that Apple has released in the past 2 decades (where they removed an old legacy feature) has it not done what it was meant to do? U know get people and eventually the entire industry to move away from it. 

 

Because If I recall correctly every time they did this while yes it was met with backlash, everyone did move on and so did the industry. Eventually leading to the advancement of the entire industry.  So how is this any different from now?

 

We're at the middle stage now of the process, so its worked pretty well I'd say wouldn't u??

[wasab]

54 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

Hmmm ok got it. I see where your getting these from now. Its your ideology relatively speaking of course. 

 

Ok what I mean is ya sure u can and most do say that Apple does it for the money. Thats easy honestly cuz everyone understands that bit, since everyone knows companies are greedy fuckers right?? Right.

 

 

 

But your missing the point of this topic i proposed. I get the money thing, I'm asking what u think about the philosophical bits I presented to you. If u don't think so why? The money reason isn't an answer thats been beaten to death already I want a new REASON. I gave u a new reason why I think this decision was just and right. 

 

So u should give a new one as to why its not. We both have our cliche obvious everyone knows answers. I want to spur new discussion on the matter. 

Thats the point. So please go on.

Philopshical what? The only argument I get from you is that wireless headsets are superior and should completely suppant the wired ones.

 

Wireless headphones isn't inherently superior. 

This is like saying human powered bicycles are inferior because we have motorised vehicles and bikes should be pushed out of the market. 

 

 

[wasab]

17 hours ago, floofer said:

 

True wireless, like power over wifi or something like that is truly tricky and most likely will never happen. 

They already happened. It's called solar panels and wireless chargers have even occured naturally in photosynthesing organism 

[captain_to_fire]

20 hours ago, floofer said:

wireless lines on Beats, which they own. 

If only Beats headphones sound good but they don’t. The only reason people buy Beats is because they don’t know anything better. 

[TheReal_ist]

19 minutes ago, wasab said:

They already happened. It's called solar panels and wireless chargers have even occured naturally in photosynthesing organism 

It has not happened mate, that is not true wireless bud. 

 

Your being feed a false reality. Nikola Tesla achieved what we want today and yet he was born 163 years ago and yet he still managed to transfer power wirelessly over the air just as we do with Radio waves today but used it to transfer high Voltage electricity not our pathetic ass Smartphone Cellular data. 

 

U really have no clue what true wireless is do you? Cause as HELL ain't the pathetic shit we have today. Maybe if u new the future that Apple is aiming for you understand why they are doing it. Cause if u seriously thought today is what they were aiming for you are off by about 2 centuries. 

 

lol

[TheReal_ist]

30 minutes ago, wasab said:

Philosophical what? The only argument I get from you is that wireless headsets are superior and should completely suppant the wired ones.

 

Wireless headphones isn't inherently superior. 

This is like saying human powered bicycles are inferior because we have motorised vehicles and bikes should be pushed out of the market. 

 

 

Specs are irrelevant lest it be if wireless is better or wired is better. 

 

 

Its better on the fucking concept of it. Wireless is wireless therefore its easy to install to cities, and just as easy to remove. On top of the installation and removal, there is also the OBVIOUS convenience factor that the mainstream folk will flock to as they HAVE ALREADY done.

 

(And they haven't even seen what true wireless can do. So if they are flocking to the pathetic levels of convenience that this half assed version of wireless we have today. Then u can easily imagine how much they will drool over true wireless power.)

 

 

 

Also since I can tell u are gonna hark back to specs like most techies do. I'll explain even tho its irrelavent, but whatever.

 

Ok u are right the specs for wireless tech right now is inferior to wired. GREAT OBSERVATION, now continue observing if u will. This is not true wireless this is a half ass baked version of it. By that I mean its a simple stepping stone in the technology. If u seriously think this is the best it will get we have more issues bud. What did u seriously think the first Solid Sate Storage option was the best it would get. 

 

NO u didn't if u are seriously so ignorant as to think that ANY tech has reached its peak u have a lot to learn my friend. I do not wish to call u names, but  u are acting just as these names are defined by hence the call out. So try to be understanding if u will, when u are proven inherently wrong. I know its easy to recoil and reject the new. 

 

But trust me u will be thankful u were more open. 

 

[TheReal_ist]

30 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

If only Beats headphones sound good but they don’t. The only reason people buy Beats is because they don’t know anything better. 

Please stay on topic bud. If u have something to say then say it about the topic at hand as the Forum rules say u should be doing.

 

Thank you

 

Don't like it talk to a mod, they made them not me.

[TheReal_ist]

20 hours ago, handymanshandle said:

I love how everyone tries to rationalize either their love or hatred for Apple (or even just opinions) with the excuse of "mainstream idiots".

And yet u still don't respond. Much wow thanks for contributing the civil discussion like an adult. Instead we get this a baseless claim meant to insight reactionary emotionary replies. 

 

U and people like u are the reason topics about iOS and Android can not be civil. U thrive on attention and would rather have that then discuss like a fucking adult. 

 

 

Our Glorious Commander Chief said it best "How sad" (With hands stuck out in front because of course. Y not)

[IAmAndre]

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

 

U may not think u will but I'm pretty sure your all happy when they got rid of the CD drive. If they hadn't storages wouldn't have advances fast enough to get where we are today. We would be behind but because we didn't dwell on things like the CD format for to long. The industry was able to advance much quicker. Its the same shit with the jack, I just wish more people could see the future that these irrelevant short term losses are being had for. Nothing is done just cause there is always a reason. 

I don't have a single memory of people complaining about the switch from CD's to other media, or when we switched from tapes to CD's. It was all about the advantages and that's how changes should happen: "look how better it is now", not "you switch now because we decided so, plus we need your money, but it'll be good at some point."

 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

The point is we don't care what u think now because it will have been worth it a decade or 2 from now when u have perfect latency free wireless solutions.

Sure. Who cares about what customers think anyway?

The only thing here is that Apple has the power to drive the changes and know that their customers will follow them whatever they decide. The fact that there are still companies releasing high end phones with a jack only proves this.

And while we are eventually getting to the point where wireless will be maybe as good as wired, it would be very naive to think that this is only thanks to Apple because they pissed some customers.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

If only Beats headphones sound good but they don’t. The only reason people buy Beats is because they don’t know anything better. 

Thank you I bought a pair not too long ago. They turned out to be fake, but I didn’t notice because they were better sound than my AirPods. 

 

1 hour ago, wasab said:

They already happened. It's called solar panels and wireless chargers have even occured naturally in photosynthesing organism 

Chloroplasts are fake news. Who even cares about plant cells lmao. I’ll be impressed when my MacBook uses photovoltaic cells to charge over WiFi.

[TheReal_ist]

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

Sadly, you're right about this part - the consumers who make up most of the mainstream purchasing market inherently govern the entire market, which makes it damn near impossible for those of us who actually have specific requirements in a product to look elsewhere our of convenience sake.

Question for ya. Do you think that if enthusiasts like us were to chose. Do u think we would have made the right choices with regards to new technologies to get us to this very exact point in time. 

 

U are obviously pretty biased in regards to u being a techie. But I am one as well, so if I could see both sides u can as well. So I'm trusting u to at least recognize it. Even if u as every biased techie would say "We know better we would make the right choices".

 

Because to me I know techies pretty well especially when u look at how they are responding to changes like the Jack in this specific thread. By that I mean of course that if they were to chose we would have Laptops and Phones with as many possible legacy ports as possible. And AGAIN if we did this as I know u would all vote for. We would never advance technology wise, u can't hold onto the past if u want to move. All it does is hold u back something I REALLY hope u figure out in time. Even if its not today.

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

Um... yes, actually we can. And the best part is, we can have wireless at the same time - it's called BlueTooth, and it's been a part of most mobile phones since the early 2000's or earlier. One does not have to strip wired functionality from a device to implement wireless functionality.

So I'm guessing u would have said the same with regards to the Floppy drive when we were in the process of switching??

No u wouldn't HINDSIGHT is a powerful tool and u are misusing it to prove a point. Sorry but that's not how this works at all.

 

IF U LOOK at the entire history of tech so far the trends are obvious if they weren't Apple wouldn't have been so confident in there decisions as to where the market should go. But they did they knew EXACTLY and I to this day HAVE NO CLUE how Steve and Tim did up until this point. WHile I can see the reasons they did I still have no clue HOW they did it funny enough lol. 

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

Best selling (by way of market share) does not by any respects mean best sounding, best for convenience, best for cross-compatibility, or any other form of best that would be objective. Granted, AirPods are pretty damn awesome subjectively if you live in an Apple household due to the seamless integration & handoff between devices, but objectively they're far from the best way to enjoy music, movies, or audio calls on a mobile device, because everyone's ear are shaped & tuned to hear differently.

Again I swear I repeating myself so much hear but o well. Ok again we are in the transition period of a technology. SOOO if we were to wait as u all keep thinking we should have done. THEN GUESS WHAT nothing would have changed. Humans are creatures of habits if u are not FORCED to change u WON"T. 

 

So AGAIN u can't just wait until u or ANYONE else subjectively thinks we are ready to move on. U ARE never ready ever, this doesn't just apply to this topic it applies to life.

 

"U are never truly ready for anything, and so if u spend time waiting to be ready you will be waiting your entire life."

-Unknown

 

I heard that from someone throughout my long life don't know who buts its unbelievably true still with regards to humans. 

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

Partially correct; forcing change by removing a connectivity option is certainly one way to go about things. Apple made sure a lot of people will never buy another one of their headphone jack-less products, while at the same time introduced the idiotically confusing world of BlueTooth audio to mass market consumers. There's good and bad here, because you're right that many consumers won't upgrade until they're forced, but at the same time many consumers genuinely need legacy connectivity for a variety of reasons, as you'll read about in my reply to the next section.

Again u and me both are not the average consumer I really wish you would see this. 

 

Cuz AGAIN if u did u would realize that ANY COMPROMISE in the push to something new will make it FAIL instantly. U sort of just have to understand how the mainstream mind works. Then u would see why u can't support an easy legacy option. Sorry but thats reality I wish it were different trust me but humans are stupid things and need to be forced. 

 

period. No exceptions. This is understood VERY WELL by the marketing bit of companies. Even better with regards to Googles AI's they have THOUSANDS of groups for people to fit into they nearly have 80% of all humans put into a type. So again u really need to see this to get this bit. 

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

While I cannot speak for tech YouTubers, I can indeed speak for my own personal needs: My car's BlueTooth does not always work, and only supports pairing one device at a time if I don't want to have to perform CPR on the factory radio (because it's a piece of shit), but it does support AUX in by way of 3.5mm jack. This is great because a 3.5mm jack allows me to fallback to a legacy standard that literally just works (unlike BlueTooth's inability to work as advertised) even when friends want to pop-on their tunes when we're on an adventure. Now, if phone companies offered to replace my car stereo with one that wasn't a potato, I wouldn't be complaining, but I have yet to find a phone company willing to do this, so until then, no phones without headphone jacks for me.

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

Another small but important reason for headphone jacks is that non-AirPod BlueTooth pairing (so literally any BlueTooth device other than AirPods) is anything but seamless. Let's say I want to seamlessly switch my Logitech UE9000 headphones from my iPad I was using on the back deck to my OnePlus 5T phone in my pocket because I'm going to listen to tunes while doing the dishes, then switch over to my Dell XPS 15 laptop for an evening work session. All of these devices are priced in the higher-end range, and all sport at least BT4.0 so I'm able to use aptX over A2DP, but that doesn't matter because unless I actually turn off BlueTooth on the prior device I was using my headphones with, I cannot make the headphones pair with another device. Mighty convenient - not, so many times I still plug in when listening around the house.

Again just because the transition technology is bad or inferior in some ways. The CONCEPT and knowledge that it can grow to be superior in ways u can't even imagine is why it needs to be done.

 

U can give me every example under the sun my point still stands. U need to make initial compromises to innovate on ANYTHING. 

 

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

At least if they included the adapter in the box, I'd be able to listen reliably in my car before deciding to return the product because it's absurd that we're to use dongles in 2019 rather than simply having products designed properly in the first place. An electronic device is simply a tool that enables me to make my life more convenient by saving me time and energy doing something manually - if I now have to remember to bring dongles with me everywhere I go just to plugin a headphone jack, or worse - an SD card - then that piece of technology is no longer saving me time or reducing the complexity of my life, and therefore serves no purpose compared to a device that offers the connectivity options I require for work, play, or otherwise.

A new one sick. 

 

Ok, damnit not really but a bit different. Ok they gave the adapter to the masses in this instance because its obvious the Jack was around for a century we relied it MUCH more then previous removals of things. And they saw this, so instead of caving as other companies did they stuck to there guns. 

 

By that I mean of course that they yes gave a grace period for the masses to be given a free Jack to Lighting adapter. This was meant to quell the backlash a bit for the mainstream (Not u and me fyi) and god damn it worked as like a charm. 

 

After this iPhone cycle was done they saw that because the dongle was annoying

(aka what they want a dongle to exist for to annoy the user. All in prep to make them force themselves to move on. If they don't then they are an enthusiast which Apple doesn't care to convince they leave that to your peers. By them judging forcing u to upgrade. And holy shit does it work, I'm still amazed that I moved on from so many things in the past. all because people near me pressured me and the fact that I was using an archaic mess while everyone else wasn't.

 

The manipulation that they go to is fricken insane isn't it. lol)

 

to the mainstream folk they saw there chance to cut it off MUCH SHORTER then they initially thought they would have had to. Initially they as many Market Analysts thought the jack would have been held onto much tighter by the mainstream folk. But to much surprise they didn't and instead caved into the convenience mess that is Dongles. Which is exactly what Apple wanted FYI (Refer back to the above point) so they removed it. 

 

Ya u easily call this a cash grab as most fanboys will. But funny enough this time was different. Apple won the gun to head mentality with their investors, this time they were able to keep the price of the adapter low something the investors who control 99% of prices would have never agreed to. But some how Tim and his team did it, something I didn't expect to happen. Weird to see them fight back a bit lol.

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

But that's exactly what this is - an example of Apple following their [business] principles by pushing people to a jack-less wireless future [where Apple now owns a huge percentage of the wireless headphone market by way of Beats audio], creating an anti-competitive closed ecosystem of segregated products that don't work seamlessly with each other despite supposedly following the BlueTooth standard.

We are getting off topic mate into monopolies. Something I just don't have the time to get into lol the above and the other PARAGRAPH long responses I have done is really draining funny enough.

 

All I will say is while it sucks they have a near monopoly on the mainstream headphone market. I'm happy they have it actually. FIRST OFF: yea monopolies in most cases are bad, but weirdly enough in this instance Apple has it. 

I'm fine with this as u can probably tell all because they have the right mind set with regards to where the market should be heading. I don't know the future will entail with regards to their views. But seeing as they are still privacy centric I think we are in safe hands for a bit. 

 

Yea yea I know they can go rogue and fuck it all up, when that happens All I can say is I hope we have governments in place that have the power still to split them up to remove that monopoly power. NOW looking back on it all with HINDSIGHT in arms I can see we got SOO lucky that apple has monopolized what they did. 

 

I couldn't imagine how bad it would be if they never took control back in the early years of the tech BOOM. So u may not be happy due to your present  tence issues with the transition to TRUE WIRELESS. 

I myself am more then happy because I SEE the ENTIRE picture and not just the one u are currently in. That is what I hope u will take away from this, u may not agree with me and my Defense for Apple but u should at least keep your mind open in the future. 

 

That way u keep your core fragile opinions (No i'm not making fun of u each human and there opinions are fragile hence why we recoil if shown something that violates them) I swear most of this thread is me explaining the Sociology of the Mainstream along with there simplistic mindsets.

 

lol I like to teach those of my work tho so its cool

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

 

To be clear, it's not just Apple doing this - all manufacturers are following suit, and therefore are all in the same sinking ship for me. My point isn't that manufacturer's can't make devices with or without features - it's that consumers aren't being given a choice in the matter. Without the awareness of choice, consumers could soon wind up purchasing cars that need to be thrown away at 12,000kms because you cannot change the oil due to the hood being welded shut, all because a manufacturer said this was better and no consumers stopped to ask questions.

Sinking the ship? So todays world of tech with all the advancements we have made is a sinking ship. I beg to differ QUITE vehemently. 

 

Ahhh your directing it that way. Ok YES OBJECTIVELY yes consumers not really having a choice anymore is bad. My argument to this is that we used to be smart enough to make such decisions but the world has CHANGED just to much for them. 

 

So while YES I WOULD love to have every consumer bend the company over and make them offer what THEY want. Its just not the case anymore, our populous just doesn't have that capability to do this anymore. Hence why I am fine with Apple (With there values, and morals) to direct these stupid masses in the direction they think is best. 

 

I myself yes as do u think its wrong but knowing the mainstream as much as I do. THESE facts overpower the rational logic (That the consumer should be the decider not the marketing cucks who manipulate them all. So they go in the company's best interests rather then the person they are controlling).

 

19 hours ago, kirashi said:

I'll close with 2 articles demonstrating prime examples of why USB-C audio is broken, and why BlueTooth is far too "broken" in its' current form. Until all of these issues are rectified across ALL PLATFORMS (laptops, automobiles, desktop PCs, tablets, smart home devices, and speakers) I'll forever be tied to products that utilize the one connection standard that just works: the 3.5mm audio jack.

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3284186/bring-back-the-headphone-jack-why-usb-c-audio-still-doesnt-work.html

 

https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphone-jack-bluetooth-walled-garden

 

 

 

again the first Generation of any new product will be broken. THIS isn't an argument, if it was then please u should have used it when we were in the process of switching to the past 5 or so PREVIOUS shifts in the direction of the tech market. 

 

But u didn't' because after the full version of the tech eventually came out. And realized how those previous complaints meant nothing when U FINALLY realized that pain was ALL for this full version of the product. 

 

 

God its so nice to have a proper discussion with u guys. 

Thanks man for really trying your best to keep this shit civil.

Really appreciate it, so many just say no and Hate to hate. U have reasons as to most down here as to why they think no. So great to see that. 

 

So thxs 

 

[Skanky Sylveon]

I'm honestly not sure what to think about this topic, it honestly sounds quite degrading, but whatever. 

 

Let's start with your first point.  You state that the 3.5mm audio jack is obsolete, while it's old, it's quite ubiquitous.  It has stood the test of time, as a reliable, simple, and cheap connector.   Meanwhile wireless/bluetooth requires batteries for your headphones, a AMP/DAC to be built in the headphones themselves, increasing cost, is subject to wireless interference, has a delay (which is fine for music, but is quite noticable in games and even video) among other disadvantages, and what's the advantage?  No wires?  And you call that an upgrade?  Clearly, for some people, they are willing to make that tradeoff, no wires for them takes the highest priority, but that's not the case for everyone. 

 

Now that we've established that there are pros and cons for both technologies, let's ask ourselves why apple decided to remove the headphone jack.

 

There are a few reasons, but saving a few bucks is probably not one of them.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Lsgoodcare-Connector-Terminals-Nuts-3-5MM-Headphone/dp/B013AP77T8/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=1O1MNE3ZYTBGN&keywords=headphone+jack+solder&qid=1553823499&s=gateway&sprefix=headphone+Jack+sol&sr=8-5

Here's a pack of 10 headphone jacks for 11 dollars. 

 

https://www.adafruit.com/product/1699?gclid=Cj0KCQjw4fHkBRDcARIsACV58_FjUi2m-tLyoLu8pkEKdG52RDmLuAZGqvgqFC-9jhvBlTBGQNJIR7oaAlKOEALw_wcB

Here's a headphone jack that's even able to be used for breadboards, and that one is less then a dollar, but look at this.

 

Quantity discounts.  Apple still probably buys thousands of headphone jacks for their other products that still uses the jack, so apple probably gets much better prices then even that.

 

So if it's not about the money, then what is it about?  Some people have said that it takes up a lot of space on the PCB.  Well, below is a picture of the Samsung Galaxy s9.

 

I circled the headphone jack, it definitely uses up space, but not that much.  But that's one of the more realistic reasons. 

 

It has been stated that the headphone jack was removed to make the phone more water resistant, but Samsung doesn't seem to have a problem with keeping the headphone jack and making their phone water resistant. 

 

Perhaps the onboard AMP/DAC saved apple some money, but I don't see the onboard speaker sharing that AMP/DAC.

 

So let's get to your claim, that apple is pushing technology forward.  Apple, a company that has lobbied against third party repair, blames their consumers for not using their products right when actual flaws are brought up about their products, and has compromised the durability and longevity of their products in trade for aesthetics wants to push technology forward?  Give me a break.

 

The headphone jack was probably too thick for their future phone plans, I remember seeing a D shaped headphone jack patent by apple several years ago, so that's probably the most logical solution, the jack is simply too big for their upcoming phones.  I personally don't like it, because it's compromising functionality for aesthetics, but I don't give a shit either, because wonderful things like this exists. 

 

[TheReal_ist]

34 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

I don't have a single memory of people complaining about the switch from CD's to other media, or when we switched from tapes to CD's. It was all about the advantages and that's how changes should happen: "look how better it is now", not "you switch now because we decided so, plus we need your money, but it'll be good at some point."

Ain't that funny how things just FADeeeeee away like that. THe human memory is a funny thing isn't it, only whats relevant stays in there. Hence my Original reason. 

Also again u are not the mainstream u are on this forum that alone makes u into the niche of people who waste the time to even make a forum account. But then on top of the GIANT hurdle (ps ya its giant for populous fyi) u also understand tech and are willing to then EVEN WORSE talk about it. 

 

To summarize it u are a NICHE of a niche of a niche of a final niche. The hole goes deep trust me. 

 

Point i"m getting at is that u and those u surround yourself aren't CLOSE not even a little to what the other 7.59999 billion other humans are doing. On top of your peers not being in this niche we also have the aspect of the forgetful human memory working on top of that to QUELL any memory of this happening. 

 

 

I get its this is bit of a stretch right, sorry but with regards to society and the mainstream that it entails this is as accurate as sociologists have gotten after decades of RESEARCH. I really don't like to bring up my work but I can see some of u are finding it hard to see the image I'm painting with regards to the mainstream and how they act. 

 

But trust me Sociology is pretty good at defining us humans.  Again decades of research lol

 

 

34 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

Sure. Who cares about what customers think anyway?

The only thing here is that Apple has the power to drive the changes and know that their customers will follow them whatever they decide.

refer to above point 

 

34 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

The fact that there are still companies releasing high end phones with a jack only proves this.

Finally someone brought this up. Wooot woot 

 

Ok this is an easy one as well. Ok the reason they do it actually its really only Samsung at this point. Ok So the reason why Samsung is the last hold out among the main phone brands is that they want to be seen by the Mainstream techy crowd as the UNDER dog that offers u a safe space while the big Baddy Apple is hurting your entire world with there forcing of new things onto the populous. 

 

THAT IS ALL. They are ignorant and pathetic for this very reason. They aren't holding onto it for some grand reason its to simply pin them against apple. And by doing so they are seen as the good guy  and are therefore protected by people just like you. Comes full circle doesn't it lol.

Now Now I'm not trying to laugh at you. My point is to show u the truth as a Realist would  (hence my name lol). Which in this case is all that Samsung is doing is pinning them as the good guy, same goes for the notch. Ever notice how they don't mention their camera pimple or better yet embrace it as Apple did when the X was released. 

 

 

Ya they don't want to admit they were wrong Simple, remember those childish iPhone notch ads. Ya would u want to be called out that much. Doubt it. 

 

34 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

And while we are eventually getting to the point where wireless will be maybe as good as wired, it would be very naive to think that this is only thanks to Apple because they pissed some customers.

 

Alrit then go ahead please elaborate as to who else had an effect as Apple has. Because its only Apple and Samsung that had enough clout when the 7plus was released 2 yrs ago nearly. 

 

History points to Apple as the only one to have done this, So bringing up forgettable pieces of shit like what the Essential phone with the notch, and the Moto Z as the first Jack less device. Ya try again. 

 

To argue a point u need substantial evidence and those forgettable niche of a niche companies are nothing in regards to how history played out. But PLEASE FINE SIR enlighten my ass. Always open to a properly supported new idea. 

 

U know as every HUMAN should be..........but o well right.

[TheReal_ist]

7 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

I'm honestly not sure what to think about this topic, it honestly sounds quite degrading, but whatever. 

I love how even when someone is objective in nature. U KNOW how I am the LITERAL opposite of the mainstream people I talk about. But yet I also am well versed in the enthusiast tech space.

 

Therefore verifying I have vested interested in both the Casual idiot along with the picky fuck that is the enthusiast. Hence OBJECTIVITY.

 

But hey U SURE seem to more objective then a person coming from my background. So go ahead bud.

 

[wasab]

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

It has not happened mate, that is not true wireless bud. 

 

Your being feed a false reality. Nikola Tesla achieved what we want today and yet he was born 163 years ago and yet he still managed to transfer power wirelessly over the air just as we do with Radio waves today but used it to transfer high Voltage electricity not our pathetic ass Smartphone Cellular data. 

 

U really have no clue what true wireless is do you? Cause as HELL ain't the pathetic shit we have today. Maybe if u new the future that Apple is aiming for you understand why they are doing it. Cause if u seriously thought today is what they were aiming for you are off by about 2 centuries. 

 

lol

You do realize solar panels have been used by power stations to generate eletricity for the whole city right?