The real reason why Apple removed the Jack. And why u still haven't figured it out yet.

[TheReal_ist]

Just now, wasab said:

You do realize solar panels have been used by power stations to generate eletricity for the whole city right?

You are serious right? 

 

U REALLY cannot see the future that Nikola Tesla promised..........

 

do u even know who he is? I'm actually starting to question such a basic known thing all techies know. But I seriously can't figure out why you would openly roll over such obvious shit.

[Skanky Sylveon]

1 minute ago, TheReal_ist said:

I love how even when someone is objective in nature. U KNOW how I am the LITERAL opposite of the mainstream people I talk about . Therefore verifying I have vested interested in both the Casual idiot along with the picky fuck that is the enthusiast.

 

But hey U SURE seem to more objective then a person coming from my background. So go ahead bud.

I honestly have no clue what you're saying right now. 

[wasab]

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Specs are irrelevant lest it be if wireless is better or wired is better. 

 

 

Its better on the fucking concept of it. Wireless is wireless therefore its easy to install to cities, and just as easy to remove. On top of the installation and removal, there is also the OBVIOUS convenience factor that the mainstream folk will flock to as they HAVE ALREADY done.

 

(And they haven't even seen what true wireless can do. So if they are flocking to the pathetic levels of convenience that this half assed version of wireless we have today. Then u can easily imagine how much they will drool over true wireless power.)

 

 

 

Also since I can tell u are gonna hark back to specs like most techies do. I'll explain even tho its irrelavent, but whatever.

 

Ok u are right the specs for wireless tech right now is inferior to wired. GREAT OBSERVATION, now continue observing if u will. This is not true wireless this is a half ass baked version of it. By that I mean its a simple stepping stone in the technology. If u seriously think this is the best it will get we have more issues bud. What did u seriously think the first Solid Sate Storage option was the best it would get. 

 

NO u didn't if u are seriously so ignorant as to think that ANY tech has reached its peak u have a lot to learn my friend. I do not wish to call u names, but  u are acting just as these names are defined by hence the call out. So try to be understanding if u will, when u are proven inherently wrong. I know its easy to recoil and reject the new. 

 

But trust me u will be thankful u were more open. 

 

We are still using wheels from thousands of years ago. Why don't we replace all verhicles with magnetic propulsion system then?

[TheReal_ist]

58 minutes ago, floofer said:

Thank you I bought a pair not too long ago. They turned out to be fake, but I didn’t notice because they were better sound than my AirPods. 

lol the airpods jab u dick. lmao that hurt  

 

Quote

Chloroplasts are fake news. Who even cares about plant cells lmao. I’ll be impressed when my MacBook uses photovoltaic cells to charge over WiFi.

As far as I can tell what Apple and Huawei are heading towards with regards to wireless tech. It seems they plan to have STRONG receivers and TRANSMITTERS in two devices. By which they will then beam ANYTHING between them, power, data, everything. 

 

This is sound scientifically (with our current knowledge) but our issue is that our receivers and transmitters just AREN"T small or dense enough to transfer what is needed. But we know its possible something we didn't have the luxury of Decades ago. So i'm a bit more confident we will get there lol.

 

So no Solar is not it. Not now anyways. 

[wasab]

4 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

You are serious right? 

 

U REALLY cannot see the future that Nikola Tesla promised..........

 

do u even know who he is? I'm actually starting to question such a basic known thing all techies know. But I seriously can't figure out why you would openly roll over such obvious shit.

Dude, I took college level physics and quite a few college level eletrical engineering courses so of course I know who he is. I'm telling you wireless charging has already happened. 

[TheReal_ist]

3 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

I honestly have no clue what you're saying right now. 

I can tell mate, its cool it happens. 

 

Most people can't even see other view points its common really.

 

Best thing to do is Say the cliche 
"I agree to disagree, and have a nice day"

 

 

so I'm stick with that. thxs for replying tho, any discussion is good discussion.  

[TheReal_ist]

1 minute ago, wasab said:

Dude, I took college level physics and quite a few college level eletrical engineering courses so of course I know who he is. I'm telling you wireless charging has already happened. 

u say u understand the laws behind electricity when I asked if u just knew the name of a common nerd hero. 

I don't know why u needed to tell me u potentially took such courses, but I guess u needed to huh............ 

 

Ok let me get this straight the inductive charging the pussy engineers regurgitated from century old  scientific papers is the BEST WE CAN DO. You are serious are u??

If so bud I don't know if u can picture the reality we are headed to. Like damn that skull is thick. 

 

I don't mean to harsh but this is the text book definition of ignorant. If u are what the word is then sorry but not you are it. Simple. 

Ahh fuck this is turning into one of those fanboy bitch slap fests isn't it. 

 

ohh no................

[wasab]

3 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

u say u understand the laws behind electricity when I asked if u just knew the name of a common nerd hero. 

I don't know why u needed to tell me u potentially took such courses, but I guess u needed to huh............ 

 

Ok let me get this straight the inductive charging the pussy engineers regurgitated from century old  scientific papers is the BEST WE CAN DO. You are serious are u??

If so bud I don't know if u can picture the reality we are headed to. Like damn that skull is thick. 

 

I don't mean to harsh but this is the text book definition of ignorant. If u are what the word is then sorry but not you are it. Simple. 

Ahh fuck this is turning into one of those fanboy bitch slap fests isn't it. 

 

ohh no................

Fine, don't believe me. I can very much show you the entire history of mankind harvesting energy from eletromagnetic spectrum and converting them to moving eletrons in circuits but I have neither the time nor crayons to explain it to you. 

[Drak3]

18 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

It has been stated that the headphone jack was removed to make the phone more water resistant, but Samsung doesn't seem to have a problem with keeping the headphone jack and making their phone water resistant. 

Nor Sony. Or Kyocera. Those 3 have been making water resistant phones for quite some time, longer than Apple.

 

19 minutes ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

So let's get to your claim, that apple is pushing technology forward.

When it comes to the wireless front, Apple definitely wants to push forward, despite inherent disadvantages of wireless, that we can't overcome without harnessing quantum entanglement (which opens another can of worms), for the sake of aesthetics. They basically want a Mac Mini to just be a box that you place on your table, powered wirelessly, along with all your peripherals. Same with your monitor, speakers, etc.

[IAmAndre]

20 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

Ain't that funny how things just FADeeeeee away like that. THe human memory is a funny thing isn't it, only whats relevant stays in there. Hence my Original reason. 

Also again u are not the mainstream u are on this forum that alone makes u into the niche of people who waste the time to even make a forum account. But then on top of the GIANT hurdle (ps ya its giant for populous fyi) u also understand tech and are willing to then EVEN WORSE talk about it. 

 

To summarize it u are a NICHE of a niche of a niche of a final niche. The hole goes deep trust me. 

 

Point i"m getting at is that u and those u surround yourself aren't CLOSE not even a little to what the other 7.59999 billion other humans are doing. On top of your peers not being in this niche we also have the aspect of the forgetful human memory working on top of that to QUELL any memory of this happening. 

 

 

I get its this is bit of a stretch right, sorry but with regards to society and the mainstream that it entails this is as accurate as sociologists have gotten after decades of RESEARCH. I really don't like to bring up my work but I can see some of u are finding it hard to see the image I'm painting with regards to the mainstream and how they act. 

 

But trust me Sociology is pretty good at defining us humans.  Again decades of research lol

Wow. Alright I'm off to bed. Not feeding the trolls anymore.

[wasab]

30 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

 

But trust me Sociology is pretty good at defining us humans.  Again decades of research lol

No offense but in my school, we engineering students usually think of hippies smoking weed and preaching alien conspiracy theories when we speak of sociology majors. 

[TheReal_ist]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Nor Sony. Or Kyocera. Those 3 have been making water resistant phones for quite some time, longer than Apple.

Ahh fuck forgot to state this inthe OG post. 

Alrit I'll  explain this as well. Fuuuu

 

Water resistant for a phone while YES TECHNICALLY removing a hole from the device u are trying to water proof will help it. But your forgetting the thing that gives any weight to this at all.

Know what that is? The fucking thing itself.

 

The current state with regards to water resistant phones is sticking flimsy ass seals on the big holes and then glueing the front and back panels shut. Sounds good right, no its not. This method has MANY flaws and bitch I am not explain them all for u to just say "nope your wrong I'm right." So u best not bitch about this main one I know has a higher chance of getting ANYTHING across to u. 

So here it goes:

 

First one:

 

While the glue used to seal the front and back of your device is pretty good with regards to water pressure, and the ageing of the glue over time. It will still fail as all will this method will just fail later as u can TELL from the Apple Watch and its 50m depth range. compared to what the 2-3 m one the bitch ass Phone method we are using has. Ya difference is easy to spot. 

 

So with this phone method u have one major failure point. Which is of course the rubber gaskets that are used on the bigger but more weird shaped openings to the phone. While these are GREAT for splashes and fairly low water pressure environments as u can imagine of course. THEY AREN'T good for anything else.

 

 

Conclusion:

 

So getting back to your original point that removing a port helps AT ALL with water resistant. U can see it fucking doesn't unless they glue the damn things shut as they do with the screens THEN SURE AS SHIT it would. 

 

BUT THEY DON'T so stop thinking that. All they being Samsung did was stick a gasket on the actual jack module. Having it or not does NOTHING to help with water resistance. So please correct this incorrect fact. 

 

Thxs

 

 

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

When it comes to the wireless front, Apple definitely wants to push forward, despite inherent disadvantages of wireless,

Again I swear u guys dont read. Whatever tho.

 

JUST BECAUSE the transitioning technology we have now sucks in some ways. THAT DOES NOT mean its not worth it push that technology to its fullest form. What would your smartass have the forsight to SAY "hey u know the first ever silicon based storage method for thing, YA its pretty shitty compared to hold punch method we are using right now. Lets get rid of it and focus on WHAT WORKS"

 

The fact u can't see this obvious flaw in your logic is appalling at the least and at the worst its good because I'm happy u were never in charge of directing the market.

We would be in the stone age by comparison to today if us enthusiasts were in charge. 

 

This serious RESPONSE by this guy shows that point EVEN more then I could ever imagine showing. 

 

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

that we can't overcome without harnessing quantum entanglement (which opens another can of worms), for the sake of aesthetics. They basically want a Mac Mini to just be a box that you place on your table, powered wirelessly, along with all your peripherals. Same with your monitor, speakers, etc.

 

Sooooo uhh Nikola Tesla was using Quantum elements to make his tesla coils work nearly 160 yrs ago? 

 

Putting quantum in front of things isn't how u answer shit. U should really research things before posting, would be much appreciated as it would theoretically save me time. 

Theory is the key word. lul

[TheReal_ist]

11 minutes ago, wasab said:

No offense but in my school, we engineering students usually think of hippies smoking weed and preaching alien conspiracy theories when we speak of sociology majors. 

lol appreciate u showing your true colors mate.

 

As am I that I shown mine hehe

 

Point is Humans the most complex thing in the universe even relative to such incredible things as Quantum mechanics and the nature of what is at the center of a blackhole.

We have theories and even laws defining these things. 

 

But yet we have nothing tangible to describe the brain. And yet on the opposite of the spectrum we have mapped out nearly every human's behavior to the T. Sorry but not knowing is more interesting then perfecting some Science theory that will just change a century after u correct it. 

 

I have my field and so do u. So stop trying to prove ones better. I didn't want to say the above endless correcting cycle u guys go through but hey u did start it. 

 

[TheReal_ist]

24 minutes ago, IAmAndre said:

Wow. Alright I'm off to bed. Not feeding the trolls anymore.

Yup big troll here thanks for playing.

 

Go back to your world and I will to mine aka this one.

[wasab]

6 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

lol appreciate u showing your true colors mate.

 

As am I that I shown mine hehe

 

Point is Humans the most complex thing in the universe even relative to such incredible things as Quantum mechanics and the nature of what is at the center of a blackhole.

We have theories and even laws defining these things. 

 

But yet we have nothing tangible to describe the brain. And yet on the opposite of the spectrum we have mapped out nearly every human's behavior to the T. Sorry but not knowing is more interesting then perfecting some Science theory that will just change a century after u correct it. 

 

I have my field and so do u. So stop trying to prove ones better. I didn't want to say the above endless correcting cycle u guys go through but hey u did start it. 

 

I'm not saying which one is better but the fact you think we humans have yet to archieve wireless charging is quite amusing. Perhaps you ought to read up a bit on recent techology articles instead of consuming pesudo science like watching ancient aliens.

[captain_to_fire]

3 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Please stay on topic bud. If u have something to say then say it about the topic at hand as the Forum rules say u should be doing.

 

Thank you

 

Don't like it talk to a mod, they made them not me.

I don't know why you're so worked up on this

 

[Skanky Sylveon]

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

I can tell mate, its cool it happens. 

 

Most people can't even see other view points its common really.

 

Best thing to do is Say the cliche 
"I agree to disagree, and have a nice day"

 

 

so I'm stick with that. thxs for replying tho, any discussion is good discussion.  

My problem with understanding you is that your sentence structure was rather lacking.  I have debated people in the past that had far more reasonable arguments then you and came to the conclusion that the removal of the headphone jack isn't that big of a deal due to the widespread adoption of wireless charging and dongles.  While I still would perfer that the headphone jack be replaced with something like a second USB port for what should be obvious reasons. 

 

My argument with you stems from you stating that apple is pushing new technology (when bluetooth is over 20 years old mind you) when they have created nothing substantial in regards to wireless headphone standards.

 

Apple has innovated in the past, that much I can agree with.  Android phones would probably be non existent if it weren't for the iPhone, but apple isn't the forefront in innovation when it comes to everything, they have done their fair share of bullshit in the past and continue to do so.

1 hour ago, Drak3 said:

When it comes to the wireless front, Apple definitely wants to push forward, despite inherent disadvantages of wireless, that we can't overcome without harnessing quantum entanglement (which opens another can of worms), for the sake of aesthetics. They basically want a Mac Mini to just be a box that you place on your table, powered wirelessly, along with all your peripherals. Same with your monitor, speakers, etc.

I'll agree with you halfway.  Apple definitely wants to push the tech onto people, but they are doing nothing towards making innovations towards bluetooth technology in order to make it a proper replacement. 

Everything else I pretty much agree with. 

56 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

The current state with regards to water resistant phones is sticking flimsy ass seals on the big holes and then glueing the front and back panels shut. Sounds good right, no its not. This method has MANY flaws and bitch I am not explain them all for u to just say "nope your wrong I'm right." So u best not bitch about this main one I know has a higher chance of getting ANYTHING across to u. 

So here it goes:

You're right that it's a crappy system, but not nessacarlly in the ways that you mention. 

58 minutes ago, TheReal_ist said:

While the glue used to seal the front and back of your device is pretty good with regards to water pressure, and the ageing of the glue over time. It will still fail as all will this method will just fail later as u can TELL from the Apple Watch and its 50m depth range. compared to what the 2-3 m one the bitch ass Phone method we are using has. Ya difference is easy to spot. 

The adhesive used breaks down due to fluctuations in temperature, this is why you use a heatgun to heat up the adhesive to break it's bond.  Furthermore, the apple watch uses adhesive to keep itself together as well, as can be seen from this teardown pic from ifixit.

 

That's not to say that apple's claims are false, but they are using the same system more or less then everyone else.

 

In normal operating environments, this adhesive should last for several years.

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

So with this phone method u have one major failure point. Which is of course the rubber gaskets that are used on the bigger but more weird shaped openings to the phone. While these are GREAT for splashes and fairly low water pressure environments as u can imagine of course. THEY AREN'T good for anything else.

I opened my galaxy s9, there was no rubber gasket, the USB port detects when there was a short in the connectors (which it assumed was from water) and disabled the port until the short stopped.

 

So, why is adhesive a bad idea?  Because it makes it much harder to repair the phone, you have to use a fucking heat gun to remove the back plate, which is not only dangerous to the electronics and casing, but dangerous to the end user if they are inexperienced, those things get over 1000 degrees.  Rubber gaskets would be fine for water pressure if the torque specification was high enough. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

BUT THEY DON'T so stop thinking that. All they being Samsung did was stick a gasket on the actual jack module.

Samsung did not do that, I already told you, they detect a short, and disable it until the short is gone.

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

Again I swear u guys dont read. Whatever tho.

 

JUST BECAUSE the transitioning technology we have now sucks in some ways. THAT DOES NOT mean its not worth it push that technology to its fullest form. What would your smartass have the forsight to SAY "hey u know the first ever silicon based storage method for thing, YA its pretty shitty compared to hold punch method we are using right now. Lets get rid of it and focus on WHAT WORKS"

Let's use your logic against you.  Wireless power is a thing, so let's remove AC power outlets from all future housing and replace it with wireless power. 

Until the technology is mature enough to fully replace the older technology (which in some cases it will never be) we should still have the option to use old technology.  But, dongles do exist, so you can still use old technology with the phones without headphone jacks. 

1 hour ago, TheReal_ist said:

The fact u can't see this obvious flaw in your logic is appalling at the least and at the worst its good because I'm happy u were never in charge of directing the market.

We would be in the stone age by comparison to today if us enthusiasts were in charge. 

 

This serious RESPONSE by this guy shows that point EVEN more then I could ever imagine showing. 

Your argument has the serious flaw that we should throw out perfectly functional technology because it's old, hell, wireless audio is nothing new either, have you ever heard of the FM radio?  That's decades old, still being used, and is the basis of bluetooth headphones.  If everyone used your logic we would be in the stone age.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Skanky Sylveon said:

but they are doing nothing towards making innovations towards bluetooth technology in order to make it a proper replacement. 

Their W1 chipset.

[8uhbbhu8]

22 hours ago, TheReal_ist said:

Please stick to the topic.

 

thanks,

lul

He's got a point

[Skanky Sylveon]

52 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Their W1 chipset.

The W1 chipset makes paring easier on a grand total of 4 headphones, furthermore, Android has a tap to pair option on many bluetooth devices as well.  There are a few ease of use advancements, but nothing that a decent pair of bluetooth headphones had due to built in play/pause buttons and whatnot.

 

That chipset does nothing to improve on connection reliability when interference is introduced or range.

 

It does seem to help with input delay though, so there's that, as well as improved battery life.

 

I didn't really include it due to it being heavily proprietary, needing the earpods or a newer pair of beats headphones with an iPhone, but I suppose that's an improvement so I'll redact my statement. 

[kirashi]

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Question for ya. Do you think that if enthusiasts like us were to chose. Do u think we would have made the right choices with regards to new technologies to get us to this very exact point in time. 

I don't understand the question. If tech enthusiasts were to choose what? And what choices are right? To me, the only right choice is to have an ecosystem of products that make my life easier, not more difficult. I'm a very utilitarian person, so while I absolutely welcome new technology, I expect it to work as advertised and let me do the things that I need to get done in my particular life.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

U are obviously pretty biased in regards to u being a techie. But I am one as well, so if I could see both sides u can as well. So I'm trusting u to at least recognize it. Even if u as every biased techie would say "We know better we would make the right choices".

Damn right I'm biased - technology isn't free, so when I pony up $800 for a Smartphone, it better damned well do what I need it to do. I don't just buy new technology because I like to throw money around, nor because I want all the latest toys. While this would be nice, I simply can't afford it. If a new tech product comes out that makes my life easier, then you absolutely can trust that I'll recognize it's the right direction to go for my needs, just as I trust you'll recognize the opposite.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Because to me I know techies pretty well especially when u look at how they are responding to changes like the Jack in this specific thread. By that I mean of course that if they were to chose we would have Laptops and Phones with as many possible legacy ports as possible. And AGAIN if we did this as I know u would all vote for. We would never advance technology wise, u can't hold onto the past if u want to move. All it does is hold u back something I REALLY hope u figure out in time. Even if its not today.

Um, not quite. See, I wouldn't choose to have 9000 legacy ports in addition to current-gen ports in my laptop because my specific needs don't require them. More importantly though, the comparison of humans advancing from legacy tech vs. the complete removal of a port that can absolutely coexist with new technology are not the same thing, as I'll explain in my next response.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

So I'm guessing u would have said the same with regards to the Floppy drive when we were in the process of switching??

No u wouldn't HINDSIGHT is a powerful tool and u are misusing it to prove a point. Sorry but that's not how this works at all.

No actually I wouldn't, because CD's provided the exact same reliable, convenient way to store 300x or more data in a small form factor. Now, if CD's required that I remove and reinsert a disc 10 times because the first 9 times would render the disc unreadable, just like how BlueTooth unreliably connects in my car or fails to switch between multiple devices with ease, then yeah, I'd have said the same about floppy drives. Once again, technology isn't free, so as long as I'm paying for it, I don't want to be a part of the beta phase until it works 100% of the time all the time.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

IF U LOOK at the entire history of tech so far the trends are obvious if they weren't Apple wouldn't have been so confident in there decisions as to where the market should go. But they did they knew EXACTLY and I to this day HAVE NO CLUE how Steve and Tim did up until this point. WHile I can see the reasons they did I still have no clue HOW they did it funny enough lol. 

Please stop putting Apple on a pedestal. Many tech companies have to face tough decisions that may not sit well with consumers everyday. In fact, I'd actually argue that the Android tablet market is a prime example, because there is ZERO consistency every 1-2 generations of tablets with companies like Samsung and ASUS constantly releasing new tablet models that require consumers to throwaway their old cases, keyboards, and power adapters simply because they've come out with a "new" way to dock their tablets - I'm not in any more support of their decisions than Apple's because at the end of the day, it's still bad for the consumer.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Again I swear I repeating myself so much hear but o well. Ok again we are in the transition period of a technology. SOOO if we were to wait as u all keep thinking we should have done. THEN GUESS WHAT nothing would have changed. Humans are creatures of habits if u are not FORCED to change u WON"T. 

FYI we're always in a transition period of technology. All the time. That's how evolution works. For me, it's not about being "ready" for change, because you're right - change is happening all the time so one will never really be ready for it. No, for me, it's about picking the best tool for the job available to me at the time. If I'm going for a run, then sure, my BlueTooth Jaybird earbuds are a great choice; however, if I haven't recharged them and am heading for a roadtrip, I'll take my wired headphones instead because they just work without requiring batteries & more charging cables. Function over form, everyday of the week.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

So AGAIN u can't just wait until u or ANYONE else subjectively thinks we are ready to move on. U ARE never ready ever, this doesn't just apply to this topic it applies to life.

"U are never truly ready for anything, and so if u spend time waiting to be ready you will be waiting your entire life."

-Unknown

I heard that from someone throughout my long life don't know who buts its unbelievably true still with regards to humans. 

Cool quote. Here's one from me: "If I'm given a choice between a complete product that makes my life easier vs. an incomplete product that isn't as convenient for my particular needs you can bet I'll buy the product that better suits my needs." -- KiRaShi, Circa 2019-03-30

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Again u and me both are not the average consumer I really wish you would see this. 

 

Cuz AGAIN if u did u would realize that ANY COMPROMISE in the push to something new will make it FAIL instantly. U sort of just have to understand how the mainstream mind works. Then u would see why u can't support an easy legacy option. Sorry but thats reality I wish it were different trust me but humans are stupid things and need to be forced. period. No exceptions. This is understood VERY WELL by the marketing bit of companies. Even better with regards to Googles AI's they have THOUSANDS of groups for people to fit into they nearly have 80% of all humans put into a type. So again u really need to see this to get this bit. 

You're right that humans need to be taught though, and not all of them are teachable. I have some neighbors who are of the "but I paid money why won't it just work" variety - no matter how much I try to teach them, they just want things to work without maintenance. FYI, this includes BlueTooth devices, so your above point actually works against you, because by forcing these neighbors to use BlueTooth, they become discouraged in the product and have decided to boycott certain brands now. (even though in theory BT devices should connect all the same.)

 

I don't need to see why we don't support legacy options - I worked in retail for 5+ years, and now in the telecom industry, so I understand it all too well: users need education, and education is hella expensive. Most companies would rather take the easy way out, forcing a way of doing things onto their users, rather than giving their users a choice with the education of the differences. This is called Solution Selling in retail stores, and works well when the user is educated because they'll make the right decision for their needs instead of feeling like they only have one option. Nobody has ever bought a laptop from me because I attempted to shove a single model down their throat.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Again just because the transition technology is bad or inferior in some ways. The CONCEPT and knowledge that it can grow to be superior in ways u can't even imagine is why it needs to be done.

 

U can give me every example under the sun my point still stands. U need to make initial compromises to innovate on ANYTHING. 

Dude, we've been transitioning from BlueTooth since the late 1990's, so don't tell me about compromises. I'm content with the compromise that I have to turn my BlueTooth mouse on and off again for it to reconnect to my laptop. I'm content with the compromise that I have to completely reset my BlueTooth keyboard for no reason when it suddenly starts typing gibberish on my devices. I'm content that BlueTooth file sharing was unreliable, even on the godly Blackberry Curve devices that prided BlueTooth as a selling feature. However, I'm NOT content with having NO OTHER OPTION when I'm fed up of dealing with the compromises that come with BlueTooth. 

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

A new one sick. 

Ok, damnit not really but a bit different. Ok they gave the adapter to the masses in this instance because its obvious the Jack was around for a century we relied it MUCH more then previous removals of things. And they saw this, so instead of caving as other companies did they stuck to there guns. 

 

By that I mean of course that they yes gave a grace period for the masses to be given a free Jack to Lighting adapter. This was meant to quell the backlash a bit for the mainstream (Not u and me fyi) and god damn it worked as like a charm. After this iPhone cycle was done they saw that because the dongle was annoying

(aka what they want a dongle to exist for to annoy the user. All in prep to make them force themselves to move on. If they don't then they are an enthusiast which Apple doesn't care to convince they leave that to your peers. By them judging forcing u to upgrade. And holy shit does it work, I'm still amazed that I moved on from so many things in the past. all because people near me pressured me and the fact that I was using an archaic mess while everyone else wasn't. The manipulation that they go to is fricken insane isn't it. lol)

 

to the mainstream folk they saw there chance to cut it off MUCH SHORTER then they initially thought they would have had to. Initially they as many Market Analysts thought the jack would have been held onto much tighter by the mainstream folk. But to much surprise they didn't and instead caved into the convenience mess that is Dongles. Which is exactly what Apple wanted FYI (Refer back to the above point) so they removed it. 

 

Ya u easily call this a cash grab as most fanboys will. But funny enough this time was different. Apple won the gun to head mentality with their investors, this time they were able to keep the price of the adapter low something the investors who control 99% of prices would have never agreed to. But some how Tim and his team did it, something I didn't expect to happen. Weird to see them fight back a bit lol.

This is about the most sensible paragraph so far - I agree with almost all of it, as you're darned right that Apple effectively cushioned the potential pain by providing an alternative connection method, even if it was absolutely asinine to begin with due to all the media coverage and selling points from Apple regarding their weather sensing features in the new iPhone at the time. It's like how motherboard manufacturers sometimes still include 4 SATA cables in the box even though most people have moved on to NVME storage drives with only 1 or 2 HDDs at this point.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

We are getting off topic mate into monopolies. Something I just don't have the time to get into lol the above and the other PARAGRAPH long responses I have done is really draining funny enough.

 

All I will say is while it sucks they have a near monopoly on the mainstream headphone market. I'm happy they have it actually. FIRST OFF: yea monopolies in most cases are bad, but weirdly enough in this instance Apple has it. I'm fine with this as u can probably tell all because they have the right mind set with regards to where the market should be heading. I don't know the future will entail with regards to their views. But seeing as they are still privacy centric I think we are in safe hands for a bit. 

 

Yea yea I know they can go rogue and fuck it all up, when that happens All I can say is I hope we have governments in place that have the power still to split them up to remove that monopoly power. NOW looking back on it all with HINDSIGHT in arms I can see we got SOO lucky that apple has monopolized what they did.

Monopolies are absolutely relevant here, since it makes it more difficult for others to compete when you corner the market in an anti-competitive way. (To be clear though, this is another not-just-Apple thing, as far too many industries have little regulation.) They're the furthest thing from the right mindset when it comes to audio - Beats audio is not something to be proud of, both from the build quality of their products and the sound signature they're pushing onto people's ears. Once again, this is about consumer choice, not banning Apple or Beats or anyone else from entering the market. However, without choice, consumers will of course go with whatever they're being force-fed from the manufacturer, not because it's better, but because the consumer doesn't have any other decent option.

 

We're just lucky that Apple hasn't purchased other big-name audio companies just yet, because without Sennheiser I'd be lost for decent audio products offering a flat sound signature and true to life mids that aren't drowned out by the bass and highs that consumer focused products command.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

I couldn't imagine how bad it would be if they never took control back in the early years of the tech BOOM. So u may not be happy due to your present  tence issues with the transition to TRUE WIRELESS. 

I myself am more then happy because I SEE the ENTIRE picture and not just the one u are currently in. That is what I hope u will take away from this, u may not agree with me and my Defense for Apple but u should at least keep your mind open in the future. 

Sorry, I only take away the hindsight that the market of consumer products is going to become more and more limited in nature due to the decisions of a few select companies because their bottom line is more important than keeping their consumers happy. We've had "true" wireless (whatever "true" means here) products for a long time, and while motherboard with built-in WiFi are awesome, I have yet to see those same motherboards to drop the Ethernet jack even though we have WiFi capable of 1 Gbit in the consumer space. Why? Because it gives consumers a choice of WiFi convenience or wired stability.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

That way u keep your core fragile opinions (No i'm not making fun of u each human and there opinions are fragile hence why we recoil if shown something that violates them) I swear most of this thread is me explaining the Sociology of the Mainstream along with there simplistic mindsets.

 

lol I like to teach those of my work tho so its cool

OK, now you've lost me. What sociology has to do with this, I'll never know.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Sinking the ship? So todays world of tech with all the advancements we have made is a sinking ship. I beg to differ QUITE vehemently. 

Sorry, I wrote that a bit too literally - I more or less just meant that it's a sinking ship in a sense that the manufacturer built the ship with holes but didn't put any patching materials on board, then us consumers decided to jump on board without researching the model of ship, and despite all this we're still to ignorant to jump ship and find a newer, better option.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

Ahhh your directing it that way. Ok YES OBJECTIVELY yes consumers not really having a choice anymore is bad. My argument to this is that we used to be smart enough to make such decisions but the world has CHANGED just to much for them. 

 

So while YES I WOULD love to have every consumer bend the company over and make them offer what THEY want. Its just not the case anymore, our populous just doesn't have that capability to do this anymore. Hence why I am fine with Apple (With there values, and morals) to direct these stupid masses in the direction they think is best. 

 

I myself yes as do u think its wrong but knowing the mainstream as much as I do. THESE facts overpower the rational logic (That the consumer should be the decider not the marketing cucks who manipulate them all. So they go in the company's best interests rather then the person they are controlling).

I guess this is where we're different - I'm NOT fine with companies doing whatever they want because consumers won't speak up regarding the features or quality of products on the market. That being said, if we keep voting with our wallets, manufacturers will product whatever we're buying, so it definitely is a little bit of the consumers fault here if we're complaining about not having products with features we need or want when we keep buying them as such.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

again the first Generation of any new product will be broken. THIS isn't an argument, if it was then please u should have used it when we were in the process of switching to the past 5 or so PREVIOUS shifts in the direction of the tech market. 

 

But u didn't' because after the full version of the tech eventually came out. And realized how those previous complaints meant nothing when U FINALLY realized that pain was ALL for this full version of the product. 

We're on BlueTooth 5 and this is still a problem. Not BT 1, not BT 2, not BT 3 or 4 - BT 5 - the 5th generation. And connecting reliably. is. still. a. problem. Not sure about you, but GM's faulty ignition switch problem was rectified in ONE GO (albeit it took many years of coverups before this happened) as was Toyota's faulty stuck gas pedal problem. They weren't allowed to release 4 further generations of vehicles exhibiting the same problem - the issues were fixed in one generation. We don't have this yet with BlueTooth, so while it is indeed an amazingly convenient connectivity option, it should never be the only option.

On 3/28/2019 at 6:50 PM, TheReal_ist said:

God its so nice to have a proper discussion with u guys. 

Thanks man for really trying your best to keep this shit civil.

Really appreciate it, so many just say no and Hate to hate. U have reasons as to most down here as to why they think no. So great to see that. 

Hey, I mean, if there's one thing I've learned since high school, it's that fanboying over something with dumb arguments gets society nowhere, while providing constructive criticism with supporting evidence or logical reasoning is what allows us to innovate in our world.

[Skanky Sylveon]

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

Damn right I'm biased

People need to stop throwing the word "biased" like it's a negative thing.  We're human beings, not robots, we all have preferences.

My preferences are that I would like a device that I spent a grand on to be user serviceable, the fact that I need a heat gun to open it is disgusting, and that's a note 9, so I have that problem with all modern flagship phones, not just apple.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

No actually I wouldn't, because CD's provided the exact same reliable, convenient way to store 300x or more data in a small form factor

The "old technology being replaced" comparison is a strawman that's rather easy to pull apart. 

I already brought up the AC power comparison, but should we switch exclusively to SSDs?  HDDs provide by far the best GB to dollar ratio.

Speaking of HDDs, @TheReal_ist did you know that hard drives were invented in 1954, while the LaserDisc (the precursor to CDs) were invented in 1978?

CDs are on their way out, many PC cases still have 3.5 HDDs, but not so much have 5.25 optical slots anymore, the newer technology is becoming less relevant then the older technology. 

But your logic would state that's bad.  Your backwards logic would suggest that newer was always better. 

To be frank, comparing a storage medium to a connection standard is like comparing apples to oranges.  It would have been far more appropriate (and assist in your strawman argument better) if you talked about Firewire being replaced by USB 3.0 instead.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

However, I'm NOT content with having NO OTHER OPTION when I'm fed up of dealing with the compromises that come with BlueTooth. 

I think that's people's biggest issue.  To be fair, dongles do exist, but it's not as convenient as just having the 3.5mm jack built into the phone.  You have a pair of Jaybirds?  So do I.  I cannot use them outside my house without them cutting out, I live near a truck stop that has a radio system which uses the 2.4 GHz frequency.  I CANNOT use the bluebirds outside, they will immediately cut out, I understand that's an unlikely problem for most, but it just shows how unreliable bluetooth can be, especially since I can still use my 2.4 GHz wifi just fine.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

They're the furthest thing from the right mindset when it comes to audio

One could argue that apple has never prioritized sound quality, they usally try to prioritize convenience and aesthetics. 

 

Let's take my sansa MP3 player for comparison.  Cheap plastic, white flickering AMOLED screen, but it has an excellent DAC/AMP for the price, and can drive my HD 598's just fine.  Most people who are really into audio are not going to use an iPhone unless they attach something like the dragonfly DAC/AMP to it.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

We're just lucky that Apple hasn't purchased other big-name audio companies just yet, because without Sennheiser I'd be lost for decent audio products offering a flat sound signature and true to life mids that aren't drowned out by the bass and highs that consumer focused products command.

I doubt that apple will ever purchase Sennheiser.  A bit off topic, but I have a pair of HD 650's, I really like them, but I perfer my HE400i's from hifiman.  The mids aren't as forward though.

5 hours ago, kirashi said:

while motherboard with built-in WiFi are awesome, I have yet to see those same motherboards to drop the Ethernet jack even though we have WiFi capable of 1 Gbit in the consumer space. Why? Because it gives consumers a choice of WiFi convenience or wired stability

Not to mention that wired data transfers tend to be more stable in terms of transfer speed.  It's very unlikely that you will fully saturate a 1Gb wifi connection.  Not to mention that wifi (and bluetooth) are much more susceptible to people breaking into your wifi network.  They are much less secure then wired. 

 

Really, I'm not against a universal port that you plug in adapters such as a 3.5mm jack, which is what I'm seeing with the USB C port.

But if the jack gets removed, I would like another USB C port, it would not only allow for using a pair of headphones when you're charging, it would also allow for you to transfer between 2 USB sticks via USB OTG.  It would give the phone a lot more functionality. 

 

As far as my experiences, I almost exclusively use witeless charging now.  I would argue that's more suitable of a replacement then the headphone jack to be honest.  I transfer files through SSH, which uses my wifi network, so yeah, outside of audio, I mostly use wireless functions, but even then, there's the occasional scenario where wired charging makes more sense, just like there's the occasional scenario where plugging in my phone to my computer to transfer my files makes more sense, such as when traveling.

 

TLDR removing functionality without a proper replacement is dumb, and will be met with criticism. 

[Derkoli]

On 3/28/2019 at 2:46 AM, Dash Lambda said:

It's pretty obvious they did it to force people to wireless. Though it was most certainly more about pushing their other products than some 'leading people to a better future' nonsense.

 

Wireless is better in many ways. Wired is better in many other ways. What irritates me about companies removing it is not the idea that they're compromising to save an unnecessary amount of space, it's the idea that they're removing functionality to force the user into a paradigm that may or may not be better for them. What makes me hate companies for doing it is that their principle motivation is following trends and squeezing money out of people.

 

What depresses me is that it seems the entire industry doesn't give a good god damn about the consumer, and is run by people who would ram the Titanic straight into that ice berg in broad daylight with every single kind of RADAR, LIDAR, ultrasonic, and gravity-based imaging technology we can even dream of today pointed straight at it, each with their own color-coded warning light and discordant siren that go off the moment it comes up the horizon, while someone loudly reads each report of the ice berg into their ear and points at it. Just look at notches. Nobody likes them. I have not heard a single person, not one, say anything more positive than "eh, it doesn't bother me that much." But they just keep punching holes in otherwise great displays and ruining them, every single flagship phone, because they're not trying to make a good tool. They're not trying to make a good product. They would happily sell white paper bags filled with seawater as phones if they could make more money that way.

 

Companies like Apple embody some of the most despicable and existentially terrifying failings of humanity in spectacular fashion.

 

... Uh... Damn. I guess I ranted a little bit. I don't... Uh... Usually do that...

apple removed the headphone jack to "save space" yet samsung fit a whole damn pen in their phone with a headphone jack.. apple honestly somehow keeps oneupping themselves in the worst possible way..

[TheReal_ist]

48 minutes ago, Derkoli said:

apple removed the headphone jack to "save space" yet samsung fit a whole damn pen in their phone with a headphone jack.. apple honestly somehow keeps oneupping themselves in the worst possible way..

They didn't remove it for space they removed it to push the industry forward and therefore away from such an archaic port. Not only did I already explain this but Apple themself when they released the iPhone 7 without a jack told us why they did it. 

 

Please refrain from spreading misinformation

thanks.....

[TheReal_ist]

On 3/28/2019 at 11:19 PM, Skanky Sylveon said:

My argument with you stems from you stating that apple is pushing new technology (when bluetooth is over 20 years old mind you) when they have created nothing substantial in regards to wireless headphone standards.

U do realize what Apple is right?  Ya they are a company no shit. But they are also a brand, that people and more importantly brands will follow, meaning they have clout in the industry THAT NO OTHER HAS. 

 

On 3/28/2019 at 11:19 PM, Skanky Sylveon said:

Apple has innovated in the past, that much I can agree with.  Android phones would probably be non existent if it weren't for the iPhone, but apple isn't the forefront in innovation when it comes to everything, they have done their fair share of bullshit in the past and continue to do so.

I'll agree with you halfway.  Apple definitely wants to push the tech onto people, but they are doing nothing towards making innovations towards bluetooth technology in order to make it a proper replacement. 

U are partially right on this. But AGAIN that is not the point they aren't here to innovate on the tech. They are here to popularize it so that the market aka the masses with shit tons of cash spend it on that new tech. Meaning while Apple doesn't RnD the new tech what they do is popularize let it be the tech with there own shit (Airpods) or they popularize the idea of it. 

 

It seems u are really missing that bit. U act as if they are apple and also Samsung. THEY AREN'T.

 

Apple waits until the tech is ready and people like Samsung have done the grunt work they didn't want to do publicly because they aren't that sort of brand. So again u need to get your head in the right place with regards to WHAT Apple is before u start telling me who they are. Cuz that shit doesn't work as u can hopefully now see........

 

On 3/28/2019 at 11:19 PM, Skanky Sylveon said:

The adhesive used breaks down due to fluctuations in temperature, this is why you use a heatgun to heat up the adhesive to break it's bond.  Furthermore, the apple watch uses adhesive to keep itself together as well, as can be seen from this teardown pic from ifixit.

Your right this is one reason as to why the adhesive loses its adhesion to the two surfaces. Sure but one u are missing the others and two this only applies to the Apple watch. iPhones and phones in general have MUCH SMALLER strips of adhesive and if u knew about the other reasons why adhesives lose adhesion then u would know why these two are different. 

 

TLDR its surface area, the watch has more and the small strips on phones have less. I could explain more but to bad look it up later, i don't got the time. 

So back to my point even if companies used only flat to flat adhesives like the ones we are using today (And not the worthless gaskets) we would still have the problem of it wearing out TO FAST. 

 

The issue is there size and that can't be overcome chemically not for QUITE A while that is. Seeing as 3M doesn't seem to have anything new up their sleeve. So then we are back to making the adhesive strip bigger which also won't happen because phone space is limited especially with regards to the horizontal space needed to put in a larger strip. 

 

I wish we could do more but phones are just a shitty thing to waterproof. IN essence u would need to redesign the chassis structure to accommodate waterproofing like we have on the Apple watch. And that won't happen anytime soon.

 

So TLDR we got nothing. :///

On 3/28/2019 at 11:19 PM, Skanky Sylveon said:

In normal operating environments, this adhesive should last for several years.

Please show me your data?

 

Because I'm going off Apples results which have been done FOR years and years. They have to do this for liability so I trust there research since they have to be right or they can get sued because they weren't. 

 

So no don't give me false data that u made up just because thats how it worked out for you. U are one sample size Apple has sample sizes of MILLIONS. So try again...

 

 

Quote

Rubber gaskets would be fine for water pressure if the torque specification was high enough. 

If that were true then companies would have increased the pressure put on the gaskets to therefore increase the water pressure they can withstand. BUT THEY DIDN'T key part here bud. 

 

They did it for many reasons a few are as follows:

- The phone body itself aka the metal housing can't handle the pressure from the screws over long periods of time. (meaning they will break in a pretty short amount of time)

- U can't just tighten the rubber gasket till whatever u want, there is a point at which it is the most efficient and after that u have a diminishing return for what is done. 

So to fix this ya u could get a better quality rubber or a bigger gasket sure. But then your just making the problem bigger and worse. 

 

So no u can't just tighten the gasket its not just that simple geez kid; they are multi billion dollar companies I get it u don't like them. But to think they wouldn't try every situational instance on a product that makes them INSANE amounts of money. Is just preposterous to say the least. 

 

And thats in theory in reality its also not true because they test this shit. And what they found TLDR version is that gasket have a point at which they are either good or not good. And to get better water pressure resistance it would require to much for what u would expend to get it. Hence the diminishing return. 

 

Quote

Until the technology is mature enough to fully replace the older technology (which in some cases it will never be) we should still have the option to use old technology.  But, dongles do exist, so you can still use old technology with the phones without headphone jacks. 

Again sorry bud but if we went by the "LETS WAIT till its ready logic" then we would be waiting forever. Haven't u ever heard that saying?? Sure doesn't seem like it lol

Quote

Your argument has the serious flaw that we should throw out perfectly functional technology because it's old, hell, wireless audio is nothing new either, have you ever heard of the FM radio?  That's decades old, still being used, and is the basis of bluetooth headphones.  If everyone used your logic we would be in the stone age.

Your missing the point bud. U have to understand how humans work to then understand how u can properly push them to accept a new technology and rid themselves of an old one. IN this case its wireless from wired connections. 

I get it seems flawed from a perspective where u don't understand but that doesn't make it flawed just means u haven't learned enough about it to decide if it is or isn't. 

 

Its ironic really, cause if no one had the logic that I explained Apple uses along with many companies before them. Then bub we wouldn't have anything close to what we have now. Know why??? because if we didn't throw away (relatively speaking of course) the old and jump into the new no matter how bad or good it is. Then we would be behind by centuries technologically. 

 

This is how humans adapt u can't have them gradually adapt. Ya it works but its to slow and not efficient fucking at all. Hence why u need to tell them to stfu take there old tech burn to shit and MAKE THEM (market talk wise) buy the new one. 

Humans are stupid creatures they need to manipulated like this or we would still be centuries behind. I wish u could see the realities that would have taken place if this logic base hadn't been established in the minds of the top companies back in the days and now. Then u could really see reality for what it is or I guess better put what it would have been.