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Apple Fires Back at Spotify in official press release

dashausman
By dashausman
in General Discussion
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Posted
1 hour ago, dashausman said:

Apple asserts in their press release that as with normal app purchases, only the initial transaction with the customer does Apple receive 30%. All subsequent charges to existing subscriptions lets the developer take home 85% of the income, instead of the 70% of the initial transaction.

I think the point is 5% is much more reasonable for a administration fee.   Imagine if the bank charged 30% every time you had a direct debt for your power power?

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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Posted
1 hour ago, S w a t s o n said:

What? You can't pirate a spotify subscription and most people are not pirating fucking android apps. Sure apple users will dump more money into the app store but be realistic about it

Yeah you can pirate spotify premium. A huge majority of users do it that's why when they announced they would be cracking down on it people got butthurt. Android makes it super easy to pirate anything you want. IOS you need to jailbreak and that's assuming the jailbreak is even out for your IOS version

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted

-= Moved to General Discussion =-

 

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Posted

Wait isn't Spotify on Apple Store more expensive?

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Yeah you can pirate spotify premium. A huge majority of users do it that's why when they announced they would be cracking down on it people got butthurt. Android makes it super easy to pirate anything you want. IOS you need to jailbreak and that's assuming the jailbreak is even out for your IOS version

Running adblock is not pirating spotify premium.

 

Yes, you can sideload apps but a huge majority of people do not at all AND all but a tiny tiny tiny minority do not pirate apk's of paid apps.

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18 minutes ago, S w a t s o n said:

Running adblock is not pirating spotify premium.

 

Yes, you can sideload apps but a huge majority of people do not at all AND all but a tiny tiny tiny minority do not pirate apk's of paid apps.

No this is different than adblock. It's an actual premium account. Checkout r/piracy for more details

also

https://www.slashgear.com/95-android-game-piracy-experience-highlights-app-theft-challenge-15282064/

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-piracy-ruins-it-for-paid-apps-inside-apps/

https://www.ibtimes.com/androids-piracy-problem-forcing-developers-give-away-games-altos-adventure-latest-2303552

https://www.businessinsider.com/android-piracy-problem-2015-1

 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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18 hours ago, TheSLSAMG said:

You know, this is one of those rare situations in which I'm with Apple. I don't think what Apple's ultimately asking for here is unconscionable and I think Spotify is ultimately trying to cheat the system by wanting 100% of the transactions that go through Apple. Unless it's against Apple's rules, I'm pretty sure Spotify has the choice to tender payments for iOS based subscribers through their own backend instead of using Apple's. I know my subscription isn't through Apple because I signed up on the Spotify website.

So you think Microsoft has the right to do the same? 20-30% for every program purchased for windows?

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18 minutes ago, thinwalrus said:

So you think Microsoft has the right to do the same? 20-30% for every program purchased for windows?

Through their storefront? Absolutely. You realize almost every online storefront hosting other companies' content does this, right? Steam takes 20% (previously 30% before Epic entered the market), Epic Games Store takes 12% (in a bid to gain market share against Valve, or else they would probably be taking more), Google's Play Store takes 30%, etc.

 

These fees allow the hosts to make up for:

  1. The costs involved with hosting and serving the content
  2. The costs of maintaining a payment system
  3. Profit

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1 hour ago, TheSLSAMG said:

Through their storefront? Absolutely. You realize almost every online storefront hosting other companies' content does this, right? Steam takes 20% (previously 30% before Epic entered the market), Epic Games Store takes 12% (in a bid to gain market share against Valve, or else they would probably be taking more), Google's Play Store takes 30%, etc.

 

These fees allow the hosts to make up for:

  1. The costs involved with hosting and serving the content
  2. The costs of maintaining a payment system
  3. Profit

So you can buy and distribute apps to ios devices without using Apples store? Cool. I thought it was a closed platform where you are forced to pay Apple.

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On 3/16/2019 at 4:19 AM, thinwalrus said:

So you can buy and distribute apps to ios devices without using Apples store? Cool. I thought it was a closed platform where you are forced to pay Apple.

You benefit from the platform, so for me it's reasonable to pay something from it. As far as I know, apple takes 15% from in app purchases, which is in my opinion a fair amount! Every platform has it's costs, developing, hosting, (and convenience for the user)... it's not only an administration fee, but a payment to the iOS ecosystem... it's fair to pay for that! You benefit as a developer from the Platform, so you pay your share. It's like paying taxes, you benefit from the hole system, so you pay your share...

Doesn't matter if it's on iOS, Android, steam, windows market place...

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1 hour ago, leodaniel said:

You benefit from the platform, so for me it's reasonable to pay something from it. As far as I know, apple takes 15% from in app purchases, which is in my opinion a fair amount! Every platform has it's costs, developing, hosting, (and convenience for the user)... it's not only an administration fee, but a payment to the iOS ecosystem... it's fair to pay for that! You benefit as a developer from the Platform, so you pay your share. It's like paying taxes, you benefit from the hole system, so you pay your share...

Doesn't matter if it's on iOS, Android, steam, windows market place...

Its not how free market works. Apple has got away with this anti competitive extortion for way too long.

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The problem that people are missing is not that apple charge a fee, but that apple also have a music streaming service priced at the same point as Spotify wants to be, because that's the price where they can afford to make profit and buy the music streaming rights. But because apple charge the fee (and would reject the app from publication if it had just a link to pay on the Spotify website) it means Spotify either have to charge more or take a loss. If apples own apps aren't subject to the same fees then it is anticompetitive and that is spotifies beef here. 

 

Basically if apple wants to offer competing apps on their own store they should be rolled into a seperate legal entity and treated like any other group of devs. Just like what happened with Microsoft. 

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3 hours ago, FlappyBoobs said:

Basically if apple wants to offer competing apps on their own store they should be rolled into a seperate legal entity and treated like any other group of devs. 

Except this will result in harm to the consumer. Spinning off Apple Music in to its own entity will ultimately cost more and thus as a consumer I would have to pay more. Part of Apple's mission is to use vertical integration to build a vast ecosystem for maximum efficiency and the best consumer experience. If Spotify can't produce a better product to compete then too bad; that is the definition of a free market.

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3 hours ago, duncannah said:

Apple doesn't have a monopoly on the mobile market, so calling it anticompetitive would be wrong

But they do on their own devices because you are not permitted to load apps from another app store on the iphone.

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1 hour ago, harryk said:

Except this will result in harm to the consumer. Spinning off Apple Music in to its own entity will ultimately cost more and thus as a consumer I would have to pay more. Part of Apple's mission is to use vertical integration to build a vast ecosystem for maximum efficiency and the best consumer experience. If Spotify can't produce a better product to compete then too bad; that is the definition of a free market.

That's why this is an issue in front of the EU. The laws in the EU when it comes to this are not about being harmful to the consumer but being harmful to competition. And lets be frank, Apple Music could not exist if it wasn't being funded and supported by iphone sales. Which I would argue iphone sales rely heavily on the apps in the store. So it's another instance of when does the snake eat its own tail.

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33 minutes ago, Skitsup said:

But they do on their own devices because you are not permitted to load apps from another app store on the iphone.

The consumer has an option to get another device if this doesn't please them

🙂

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3 minutes ago, duncannah said:

The consumer has an option to get another device if this doesn't please them

You are 100% correct of course. However I could have also gotten a Mac in the 90's during the Microsoft anti-trust issues.

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On 3/15/2019 at 8:52 PM, mr moose said:

The issue I have is that in order too offer a sub service on the app store they have to increase the cost of the sub to cover the apple charges.  This is like an extra tax just for being an apple customer.  Is there a way to offer the sub to apple users without going through the app store?

I’m pretty sure you can just do it through the Spotify website or 3rd party vendor (Like mobile carrier)

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5 hours ago, FlappyBoobs said:

but that apple also have a music streaming service priced at the same point as Spotify wants to be

That's a load of shit. Spotify wants to maximize profits by not honoring conditions that they agreed to.

 

Also, Apple charges $10/month for their service. Google charges $10/month. Spotify Premium? Again, $10/month. They're all serving the same price point.

 

23 minutes ago, floofer said:

I’m pretty sure you can just do it through the Spotify website or 3rd party vendor (Like mobile carrier)

You absolutely can, or you can use the ad supported model they offer, both of which Spotify pays Apple a staggering nothing in exchange for hosting their app on the app store.

 

If you read the actual release, Apple's claiming that in-app purchases, the only thing they actually charge for, isn't making up a significant chunk of Spotify users, and I'm inclined to believe Apple on this. And would support them if they decided to drop Spotify from the app store.

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Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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On 3/15/2019 at 5:47 PM, S w a t s o n said:

What? You can't pirate a spotify subscription and most people are not pirating fucking android apps. Sure apple users will dump more money into the app store but be realistic about it

I'm not sure if I'd say "most," but piracy is much more of a problem on Android than it is on iOS.  You see some apps (games in particular) that are paid but ad-free on iOS, but are strictly ad-supported on Android because the developers know there will be pirated Android copies available within hours.

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On 3/15/2019 at 9:35 PM, BuckGup said:

No this is different than adblock. It's an actual premium account. Checkout r/piracy for more details

also

https://www.slashgear.com/95-android-game-piracy-experience-highlights-app-theft-challenge-15282064/

https://www.cnet.com/news/how-piracy-ruins-it-for-paid-apps-inside-apps/

https://www.ibtimes.com/androids-piracy-problem-forcing-developers-give-away-games-altos-adventure-latest-2303552

https://www.businessinsider.com/android-piracy-problem-2015-1

 

Seems like it's mostly only ads related features.

 

Premium gets higher quality streaming.

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Microsoft, puts free web browser and media player with Windows, allows customers to install any browser or media player they want.

 

ANTITRUST TRIALS, MASSIVE FINES...

 

Apple creates walled garden monopoly on iOS software distribution, customers can only install what Apple allows, charges developers 30% to get on platform, and then develops their own competing product which does not have to pay that 30%.

 

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What Apple is doing is far worse than anything Microsoft did, and you know it. The entire model is built around creating a software monopoly and then using that to make Apple's products more compelling. That they haven't been dragged into court over this before is quite remarkable.

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I personally think that Spotify is trying to cut more losses out of its business model for it to become more profitable / break even. 

I make intelligent lights do cool things

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