Sprint sues AT&T over bogus '5G E' icon to iPhones

[DrMacintosh]

AT&T has been in the news a little bit lately over their "5G E" nomenclature on iPhones and other devices....well Sprint isn't having any of it

Quote

AT&T is being taken to court by Sprint over its use of the "5G E" symbol for when iPhones and other smartphones connect to AT&T's mobile network, with Sprint's lawsuit claiming its competitor is misleading customers into thinking they are on a 5G network when they are really on 4G LTE. 

 

Filed on Thursday at the United States District Court of the Southern District of New York, Sprint's complaint alleges AT&T has "employed numerous deceptive tactics to mislead consumers" into believing the mobile network they are using has technology that is slowly being worked on by all of the major US carriers. 

The general feeling of consumers that are informed, is that the name "5G E" is intentionally deceptive and Sprint seems to think that such deceptive marketing is a big no no. 

 

Quote

Sprint refers to the "5G E" connectivity logo that appears on some smartphones issued by AT&T when devices connect to certain parts of its mobile network described as using "5G Evolution" technology. In reality, AT&T uses the term to refer to existing 4G LTE-A technology improvements it has performed in hundreds of markets, but it has only now started to push marketing of the name onto mobile devices. 

 

In January, AT&T came under fire from rival carriers on social media for adding the "5G E" logo to some Android devices, displaying it as a connectivity symbol instead of the more conventional 4G or similar graphics. The iPhone is not immune to this, as Apple included the "5G E" logo in its second beta of iOS 12.2, currently undergoing testing. 
 

Citing years of growth in terms of mobile users and the amount of data consumed, as well as demands for faster speeds with lower latency than current 4G LTE networks can deliver, Sprint acknowledges in the lawsuit that it, AT&T, and others are "striving to be among the first to market with a wireless 5G service." In Sprint's case, it claims to be working on deploying a genuine 5G network in select cities in the coming months, and has "invested billions of dollars in network upgrades." 
 

I would agree with Sprint in this, the network that AT&T has is not deserving of even being vaguely associated with actual 5G. Attempting to call it 5G is defiantly misleading. AT&T does not see it that way however (of course). Providing this statement:

Quote

"We understand why our competitors don't like what we are doing, but our customers love it. We introduced 5G Evolution more than two years ago, clearly defining it as an evolutionary step to standards-based 5G. 5G Evolution and the 5GE indicator simply let customers know when their device is in an area where speeds up to twice as fast as standard LTE are available. That's what 5G Evolution is, and we are delighted to deliver it to our customers.

We will fight this lawsuit while continuing to deploy 5G Evolution in addition to standards-based mobile 5G. Customers want and deserve to know when they are getting better speeds. Sprint will have to reconcile its arguments to the FCC that it cannot deploy a widespread 5G network without T-Mobile while simultaneously claiming in this suit to be launching legitimate 5G technology imminently.'"

The closest analog to this is when 3G networks were being labeled as "4G" (mostly by T-Mobile I think) back when the iPhone 4s was available. Sure you can make the argument that this is simply to showcase that the technology is improving.....but in the case of "5G E," no real 5G Network exists. 

 

This would not be a problem if 5G was already deployed and 5G E was a better version of that network, like what happened with 4G LTE. LTE identified an improvement in the 4G network. 5G E implies an improvement of the 5G network which does not exist. 

 

Source: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/02/08/sprint-sues-att-over-adding-bogus-5g-e-icon-to-iphones-other-devices

[captain_to_fire]

19 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

The closest analog to this is when 3G networks were being labeled as "4G" (mostly by T-Mobile I think) back when the iPhone 5 was available.

It's the iPhone 4s in 2011. The iPhone 5 was Apple's first 4G LTE phone as well as the last iPhone under Steve Jobs' supervision.

Unlike the mid season retool that is the VZ iPhone 4 in Feb 2011 that can only connect to CDMA networks, the iPhone 4s can connect to both GSM and CDMA networks with the latter not capable of simultaneous voice and data unlike the GSM iPhone.

[Drak3]

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Sprint seems to think that such deceptive marketing is a big no no. 

Kind of hypocritical of them.

 

10 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

the 5GE indicator simply let customers know when their device is in an area where speeds up to twice as fast as standard LTE are available. That's what 5G Evolution is, and we are delighted to deliver it to our customers.

Seeing as there is no 5GE spec or trademark, and it's not a standard LTE network, AT&T can designate their custom network that.

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Kind of hypocritical of them

Elaborate

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Seeing as there is no 5GE spec or trademark, and it's not a standard LTE network, AT&T can designate their custom network that.

Sure they can, but they shouldnt, and now they are getting sued because they did. 

[bellabichon]

This makes me so incredibly sad, because I know the technologically illiterate majority will buy it so quickly (partly because of the 5G buzz in the media recently.) To me, buzzwords aren't necessarily bad for the industry, if they describe an actual feature, like HD (even though people started calling 480p/720p HD at some point.) The 5G E marketing is beyond manipulative. It's completely lying. Even though they operate in one of the richest (statistically speaking) countries in the world, US telecom continues to suck worse than anybody else (except maybe Australia, but that's what you get for living on an island ) and to bullsh*t their consumers into believing everything they say is true, and that they always have your best interests in mind. I hope Sprint manages to succeed with this lawsuit, but knowing law, and the industry, it'll take at least 12 months before anything happens, and by then, maybe every single other telecom provider will have followed suit, and there'll be no point.

 

Edited February 9, 2019 by bellabichon
My f'ing mouse doesn't work for some reason (fixed typos.)

[bellabichon]

8 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Seeing as there is no 5GE spec or trademark, and it's not a standard LTE network, AT&T can designate their custom network that.

Yeah, they could, but they're specifically refraining from branding it as an 'LTE upgrade.' They're just letting people jump to the conclusion that 5G is already available. Doesn't stop it being incredibly misleading to the point of telling complete falsehoods. 

[Drak3]

10 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Elaborate

Sprint claims that their network is within 1% of Verizon's, and that the only meaningful difference between the big four are prices. That's just an outright lie.

 

11 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

but they shouldnt

According to who? It's not 4G LTE. It's not LTE-A. It's a step beyond that.

 

6 minutes ago, bellabichon said:

They're just letting people jump to the conclusion that 5G is already available. Doesn't stop it being incredibly misleading to the point of telling complete falsehoods. 

Then it's just a repeat of 4G, except AT&T is the only one investing in the new half step between LTE and 5G this go around.

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Drak3 said:

According to who? It's not 4G LTE. It's not LTE-A. It's a step beyond that.

Not according to Sprint. Sprint is suing based on the claim that AT&Ts 5G E is nothing more than LTE-A. 

[bellabichon]

12 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Then it's just a repeat of 4G, except AT&T is the only one investing in the new half step between LTE and 5G this go around.

I can't tell if you're defending them, or what, but that's what it seems like to me. The whole 4G thing sucked, and we need to try and prevent a repeat of it. Sure, even if this comes with a performance improvement over LTE, it's being marketed as 5G, when it's not 5G. Still scummy. 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Not according to Sprint

According to that company, Verizon's network is only 1% better than their's. What they have to say means less than nothing.

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

According to that company, Verizon's network is only 1% better than their's. What they have to say means less than nothing.

Except in a court of law where your kind of thinking has consequences....

[schwellmo92]

9 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

According to who? It's not 4G LTE. It's not LTE-A. It's a step beyond that.

Can you elaborate how it’s a step beyond? 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, schwellmo92 said:

Can you elaborate how it’s a step beyond? 

 

44 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

5G Evolution and the 5GE indicator simply let customers know when their device is in an area where speeds up to twice as fast as standard LTE are available

 

[Blademaster91]

50 minutes ago, bellabichon said:

Yeah, they could, but they're specifically refraining from branding it as an 'LTE upgrade.' They're just letting people jump to the conclusion that 5G is already available. Doesn't stop it being incredibly misleading to the point of telling complete falsehoods. 

Then people are dumb for jumping to conclusions that the phones are 5G ready,because the phones aren't being advertised as having 5G hardware or 5G ready. Lawsuits like this are pointless and only hurt the consumer since companies usually aren't going to take the hit from losing a few billion and push the cost onto the customers with higher prices.

Edit- Yeah i think the "5GE" icon is stupid though,AT&T could have went with different naming like "4GLTE+" or something.

[DrMacintosh]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

 

 

47 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

In reality, AT&T uses the term to refer to existing 4G LTE-A technology improvements it has performed in hundreds of markets, but it has only now started to push marketing of the name onto mobile devices. 

 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Blademaster91 said:

Lawsuits like this are pointless and only hurt the consumer since companies usually aren't going to take the hit from losing a few billion and push the cost onto the customers with higher prices.

So companies shouldn’t be held accountable for their actions because it hurts capitalism? That doesn’t sound like a society I want to live in. 

[schwellmo92]

44 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

 

 

 

Sorry for all the questions I’m just trying to understand. Where I’m from in Australia we have had up to 1Gbps 4G for a couple years and on our phones it just indicates “4G”, is the “5Ge” better in someway?

[Timmahnz]

3 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

 

Sorry for all the questions I’m just trying to understand. Where I’m from in Australia we have had up to 1Gbps 4G for a couple years and on our phones it just indicates “4G”, is the “5Ge” better in someway?

 

5Ge = 4G LTE plus some improvements. Probably using the same tech in Aus that can achieve 1Gpbs. Sprint is arguing that AT&T are using existing 4G LTE equipment plus some tweaks or hardware upgrading and calling it 5Ge when it's not "true" 5G

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/att-introduces-5ge/

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Kind of hypocritical of them.

 

Seeing as there is no 5GE spec or trademark, and it's not a standard LTE network, AT&T can designate their custom network that.

Whatever gets them though 

[schwellmo92]

2 hours ago, Timmahnz said:

 

5Ge = 4G LTE plus some improvements. Probably using the same tech in Aus that can achieve 1Gpbs. Sprint is arguing that AT&T are using existing 4G LTE equipment plus some tweaks or hardware upgrading and calling it 5Ge when it's not "true" 5G

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/att-introduces-5ge/

Ok cool well yeah it isn't true 5G at all then.

[bellabichon]

12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Then people are dumb for jumping to conclusions that the phones are 5G ready,because the phones aren't being advertised as having 5G hardware or 5G ready.

No, for the average individual who isn't very into tech, the obvious conclusion is that 5G is ready. There's been mainstream media buzz, and now the biggest US cell provider has a 5G icon. It's honestly a pretty easy conclusion to jump to, and it's not fair to call less-techie people dumb, just for being mislead.

12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Lawsuits like this are pointless and only hurt the consumer since companies usually aren't going to take the hit from losing a few billion

Sure, companies don't usually have to make major changes after losing a lawsuit, but in no way does it hurt the consumer. Sprint gets some money, which doesn't affect the consumer, and AT&T gets flamed public ally, which, if anything, helps the consumer. 

12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

and push the cost onto the customers with higher prices.

I'd argue against that. Maybe AT&T will increase their prices, but I doubt it. A billion dollars doesn't mean that much to them. Also, if Sprint goes the predictable route, and uses this as a marketing opportunity, then people will have a cheaper (albeit marginally so) alternative. 

 

12 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

Edit- Yeah i think the "5GE" icon is stupid though,AT&T could have went with different naming like "4GLTE+" or something.

That's the whole point though. To convince people who aren't very well read in technology that 5G is already here.

[mxk]

Misleading... Sooo misleading of AT&T..

[TechyBen]

I never cease to be amazed at the Stockholm. It is reaching peak critical proportions!

[Jito463]

On 2/8/2019 at 10:27 PM, DrMacintosh said:

This would not be a problem if 5G was already deployed and 5G E was a better version of that network, like what happened with 4G LTE. LTE identified an improvement in the 4G network.

Quick correction, but 4G "LTE" wasn't actually 4G.  It was more like 3.5G.  LTE was the name used for networks that hadn't quite reached 4G, but were a significant enough improvement over 3G.

 

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/4g-vs-lte/

Quote

LTE stands for Long-term Evolution, and isn’t as much a technology as it is the path followed to achieve 4G speeds. As it stands, most of the time when your phone displays the “4G” symbol in the upper right corner, it doesn’t really mean it. When the ITU-R (International Telecommunication Union) set the minimum speeds for 4G, they were a bit unreachable, despite the amount of money tech manufacturers put into achieving them. In response, the regulating body decided that LTE, the name given to the technology used in pursuit of those standards, could be labeled as 4G if it provided a substantial improvement over the 3G technology.

 

[Curufinwe_wins]

Yeah this is stupid, and ATT should be forced to stop this explicitly deceptive/false marketing.

 

Holding companies accountable is one of the most important aspects to stable economic growth.