Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Thirdgen89GTA]

4 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Oh they cried that the end was nigh when emissions were first introduced in the 70's too. The automotive industry always says the sky is falling every time they're forced to do better through external regulation because if left to their own devices we'd still be driving cars from the 1950's.

The issue I have with it is that the costs to develop the new more efficient engines gets laid at the consumer's feet.  Cars are already outrageously expensive compared to what they were 20-30-40 years ago.  Even after you account for inflation.  This pushes more people out of the market, or into longer term loans.

 

I'm fine with a gradual increase in CAFE, but this is a massive bump and will significantly affect the market.

 

[Bitter]

15 minutes ago, Thirdgen89GTA said:

The issue I have with it is that the costs to develop the new more efficient engines gets laid at the consumer's feet.  Cars are already outrageously expensive compared to what they were 20-30-40 years ago.  Even after you account for inflation.  This pushes more people out of the market, or into longer term loans.

 

I'm fine with a gradual increase in CAFE, but this is a massive bump and will significantly affect the market.

 

Average car price in 1970 was $3,450. Let's turn that up to $3700 because you wanted a little better than an average model. That's about $25,000 in 2019 money (let's not talk 2020/2021/2022 because pandemic shortages pushed prices sky high and way out of line with trends). Average price of a new car in 2019 was about $36,000. Let's look at what you get for that jump in price though? Anti lock brakes, reverse camera, blue tooth, air bags, crumple zones, higher fuel efficiency, WAY higher performance in every aspect, and vehicles that are substantially less likely to lead to your death in a car accident. If you were in a car accident in 1970 you had a fatality rate of 28 in 100,000. In 2019 it's 12 in 100,000, that's a huge huge leap forward. Talk to some older people, my mom can count on both her hands and all her toes how many people died in car accidents that she knew growing up, it was just the mundane. If she heard someone was in a car crash a death was just expected, now you hear someone was in a car crash you ask fi they're alright. Even with higher road speeds and substantially more cars on the road deaths are down. In 1970 88 million registered vehicles, in 2019 280 million! That's a 227% increase in the number of cars and we still see a decline in auto death rates. How much is a life worth? Also, remember that average price also accounts for all the crazy $100,000+ F150's and AMG's and M's and everything else that wasn't around to drive up average car prices 40+ years ago. A $100,000 in 2019 was a $15,000 in 1970 and I'm pretty sure they weren't selling as many $15,000 cars in 1970 as they're selling $100,000 cars now. Especially with how 'affordable' financing is now compared to then. It's more than just CAFE and regulations driving up car prices, I'll argue that the availability of credit drives up the price. If you don't have to pay for it all at once or in a short couple years then you're more likely to buy a more expensive car, it's not all that cars cost more because they cost more, they cost more because we can pay more because we're in debt more.

 

I'll argue on my soap box that you get more for your money now than in the past and that the rose colored lenses of nostalgia make old things seem way better than they were. Cars 40+ years ago were terrible gas sucking smog belching death traps that drove like a bathtub on wheels by modern standards.

[Bitter]

44 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

My point is we’ll just have electric and boring ICE cars to choose from. There will only be room for work trucks probably lol. Maybe a couple 4 bangers 

 

This is probably that final nail in the coffin for V8 sporty/sports cars
 

unless someone decides to make some crazy freevalve variable everything V8 for a sports car that gets 35 mpg lol but then you’ll probably have to pay $40k just for the engine lol 

I'm pretty sure they could make a 50mpg Miata that's still fun and can scoot, if they were incentivized to do so.

[Bitter]

Ordered a new Denso radiator for the Celica, not trusting 22yr old plastic much longer lol. Now to get some good hoses and some dealer clamps and dealer coolant for it. Super Long Life Pink here I come!

[JoaoPRSousa]

On 4/6/2022 at 4:15 AM, bcredeur97 said:

y’all better buy that lambo you always wanted while you still can lol… don’t see the car bubble ending any time soon 

The cars that have been made so far still exist... Of course by then they will probably be more expensive since new cars will be all hybrid and with engines downsized to the size of peas but we'll see. That doesn't mean you can't make fun small engines, but fun efficient engines are a whole different thing.
 

On 4/6/2022 at 5:16 AM, Bitter said:

I'm pretty sure they could make a 50mpg Miata that's still fun and can scoot, if they were incentivized to do so.

"Why spend the money developing a fun car that sells when you can make a boring car that sells more and nets more profits?" That's what manufacturers think. It's all about the money babyy

[vetali]

 

New wheels and tires for the hooptie. Was gonna take them off after I got my other set road force balanced, but supposed to friggin snow this weekend so they'll stay on for a bit.

[bcredeur97]

1 hour ago, vetali said:

-snip-

 

New wheels and tires for the hooptie. Was gonna take them off after I got my other set road force balanced, but supposed to friggin snow this weekend so they'll stay on for a bit.

you bought a new winter set at the end of winter? 

 

But I like those. more aggressive than my cont's that barely qualify as an all terrain lol 

[Bitter]

1 hour ago, vetali said:

 

New wheels and tires for the hooptie. Was gonna take them off after I got my other set road force balanced, but supposed to friggin snow this weekend so they'll stay on for a bit.

Looks like you're ready to aggressively pick the kids up from soccer practice on your way home from the farmers market.

[vetali]

5 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

you bought a new winter set at the end of winter? 

 

But I like those. more aggressive than my cont's that barely qualify as an all terrain lol 

The wheels were on backorder for a long time. The customer got impatient and refunded them before they arrived. I told parts to keep the order. I expected them by summer time because accessory backorders take forever. They showed up this week, plus there was a 100 dollar rebate on the tires. My sister traded in her 19 for a 22 trailsport. I actually don't like the sonic gray pearl on the SUVs as much as I thought I would.

[bcredeur97]

Finally changed the pcv thing on the Volvo. And the battery because my parents haven’t driven it since my sister moved lol 

 

It still makes that groaning noise though. Always thought the power steering felt a little funny so I wonder if it’s that. You really only hear it on decel and idle (eg vacuum) though, and only from inside the car.

it stopped making that suction at the oil cap though from replacing the part.
 

Either way not really worth a quality diagnosis from me right now, since they barely drive it, and it works fine lol 
 

 

[DANK_AS_gay]

Changed (most of) the spark plugs on my 2005 F150 with the 5.4L, and I have some juicy car gore for you.

  

I knew that my truck was idling rough, but damn. That spark plug was finger tight. The problem is, I couldn't hear anything wrong, because this:

Passenger side exhaust manifold is warped, and needs to be replaced. It is very loud, and makes it hard to determine what is wrong with my engine while running. This thing is the worst and best truck ever. Worst, because it is barely running. Best, because it is barely running. I need to learn all of the stuff I am doing in order to get experience for my hopefully future job as a mechanic. I can't do this on someone else's car, so...

[Bitter]

I have a strange feeling you're going to end up needing timing chains and actuators on that thing.

 

Uh did you get that other part of the spark plug out of the cylinder or did you just leave it in there to eat the shit out of the piston and valves?!?

[DANK_AS_gay]

25 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Uh did you get that other part of the spark plug out of the cylinder or did you just leave it in there to eat the shit out of the piston and valves?!?

I saw metal coming out when I did my oil change, I think it came out (in many pieces). That and I do not have any way to see inside the cylinder, or any way to get little metal fragments out. All I know is that I'm going to have to NOT rev the poor thing. 

I do not need actuators right now, the engine idles much smoother now that I have replaced and properly torqued the spark plugs. (I turned it on just to see if I screwed something up). I also hear 0 timing chain slap. And since my rough idle went mostly away with only 5 of 8 spark plugs replaced, and a coil that needs to be replaced on the 7th cylinder (spark plug had fluffy carbon, the tip wasn't used hardly at all, and it smelled of gas, unlike every other spark plug besides the awful one), I think it is safe to assume that that is one of the few things working. Plus, even if I did, I am going to upgrade the oil pump anyways, since the factory one is inadequate, so I would just replace that stuff while I am in there. 

 

I need new front axles, new rear shocks, new tie rods, and all of the other things that I am forgetting that probably desperately need to be replaced. The things that do work include the brakes (brake light comes on, but there is no reason for it to come on, fluid is at the right level, it is the right color, the brake pads and rotors are fine), transmission (fluid looks clean), and all other major systems really. The only thing that is leaking on the entire truck is the power steering pump, which is actually in an easily accessible place for me, and will make for an easy repair.

[Bitter]

Metal coming out at the oil change is bad, really bad. I have low hopes for the longevity of that engine.

[DANK_AS_gay]

14 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Metal coming out at the oil change is bad, really bad. I have low hopes for the longevity of that engine.

Yeah, I know. It was a few metal flakes, nothing crazy like chunks the size of acorns coming out, but I understand that it's still bad. I have low expectations myself, I just want to pretend like it isn't a problem and deceive myself to make all of the pain go away. I worked my ass off at DQ getting 10$ an hour during the pandemic, working crazy hours after school and only getting home at 11:00 each night, coming home with so much ice cream sprayed on my shirt that it can stand on its own, just to get this piece of shit. I have always wanted a Blue F150 since I was 7, I finally got it. And, as I expected, it is garbage. But, find me a car that is priced for how much it is really worth, and try getting to it before anyone else does.  Unless you have a family member who is willing to sell it to you, you aren't going to find one. And I was sick of biking a mile to DQ in sub 10 degree F weather for months on end. (not an exaggeration, I did this from late November to 4 weeks ago, I live in a northern state). A truck that is barely running (feels fine actually, much, much better after that spark plug change), with heat, is a million times better than not feeling my fingers even through 1 inch thick Carhartt gloves (again, not an exaggeration, I would have to stick my hands under a food warmer to get feeling back). 

 

I get that this thing sucks, I just don't have another realistic option. My parents told me nothing smaller than an SUV. There goes anything decent for under 10K in this market. SUVs are the most popular segment of the market, and they aren't making enough RN, so you can imagine what that segment of the used market looks like.

 

On another note, I think the crankshaft position sensor is dying, which is what I suspected after first driving it. Yet another fun thing to add to the list.

[Bitter]

Make sure you take a good look at the frame under there too, we just buttoned up timing chains on a F150 that's about to break in half because the guy just bought it for $10,000 on a shitty loan and can't get rid of it yet. Idiot never looked under the truck, it's plain as day that the frame is cracked 90% through on the driver side just behind the cab. Sucks dropping a bunch of time and money into a broken truck and at the end of the day still having a broken truck but less money.

[DANK_AS_gay]

6 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Make sure you take a good look at the frame under there too, we just buttoned up timing chains on a F150 that's about to break in half because the guy just bought it for $10,000 on a shitty loan and can't get rid of it yet. Idiot never looked under the truck, it's plain as day that the frame is cracked 90% through on the driver side just behind the cab. Sucks dropping a bunch of time and money into a broken truck and at the end of the day still having a broken truck but less money.

The frame's fine, there are a few concerning sports beginning to show signs of uh oh, but overall, better than most cars from Michigan.

[bcredeur97]

19 hours ago, Bitter said:

Metal coming out at the oil change is bad, really bad. I have low hopes for the longevity of that engine.

Transmission/diff: eh little bit is fine

 

engine: you’re in danger

 

I’ve never heard of metal flakes coming out of an engine and that engine lasting much longer than maybe a couple thousand miles @DANK_AS_gay

[AlwaysFSX]

32 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

Transmission/diff: eh little bit is fine

 

engine: you’re in danger

 

I’ve never heard of metal flakes coming out of an engine and that engine lasting much longer than maybe a couple thousand miles @DANK_AS_gay

Just add cornstarch to thicken the oil to fill the looser tolerances. That's how that works, right?

[DANK_AS_gay]

@bcredeur97Yeah, I know that metal in oil = bad. I'm saying that this thing isn't supposed to last forever, and I can't drive long distances anyways, due to parents, and the condition of the truck. I plan on either just trading in what's left of it when I get an actually good car, or keeping it and pouring way too much money into it, but having it as my project car of sorts. I also got synthetic oil in order to help it last as long as possible given its health. the repairs on this thing, even with me doing them, are going to cost about $3K+.

 

@AlwaysFSXPerhaps, I prefer honey though. It never goes bad!

[bcredeur97]

I was getting a haircut saturday, went to a random place. The lady cutting my hair starts talking about her car and how she is going to get a new one. I ask her what's going on with her current car, and boy I was not ready for this story. I was expecting the "my car is 20 years old and is just done for" story but noooope!

She said it was burning oil. I asked her how old it was. Just a couple years old, a 2019 Hyundai sonata with 25k miles. I told her it should have a warranty and they usually have a whole process where they measure your oil and you go back and they measure it again and that validates whether you can make a warranty claim on it. She then said "well I took it to a shop and they told me it was the oil pan that was leaking so I had them replace the oil pan"

I then asked her why did they think it was the oil pan, and she said it was because she saw oil on the ground dripping. I was like, ah.. so did they fix the issue? She said yes but they also messed up the oil drain plug(according to her neighbor, who looked at the car after), they completely got it stuck and it won't come off. 

So I then ask her why she brought her car to someone else when it has a warranty, and she said she was impatient and just wanted it done quickly. 

I asked her if there was blue smoke out of the exhaust and she said no, but she knows it's burning because the level drops but it's not leaving puddles on the ground. 

I tell her im not sure this is what happened but its what I suppose: the car developed an oil leak, and she didn't notice until after the car had been run low on oil for an extended period, which messed up /something/ in the motor that is making the car burn oil. And now the car probably needs a motor as a result. 

I told her honestly her best chance is to play dumb at a dealership and just tell them the car is burning oil and hope a warranty claim gets you a new motor lol. But bottom line the car probably needs one if I had to guess from her story. And I did say even if she has to pay for it, the rest of the car should still be nice and it'll be cheaper than going buy another car.

That poor car lol

[vetali]

35 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

a 2019 Hyundai sonata with 25k miles

Yeah, I'd want to ditch it too lol.

[Bitter]

Those things burn as much oil as they do gas, Hyundai/Kia have a huge problem and a huge backlog of them sitting waiting for engine replacements. It'll be stuck at the dealer for well over a month waiting in line for an engine. She's better off trading it for something else. They're shit engines in decent cars.

[vetali]

14 minutes ago, Bitter said:

Those things burn as much oil as they do gas, Hyundai/Kia have a huge problem and a huge backlog of them sitting waiting for engine replacements. It'll be stuck at the dealer for well over a month waiting in line for an engine. She's better off trading it for something else. They're shit engines in decent cars.

Exactly. Everything through them is backordered to infinity. Its actually pretty interesting right now industry wide. If you have a newer car and a module goes bad... you might be waiting 6+months without a car while making payments.

[Bitter]

5 minutes ago, vetali said:

Exactly. Everything through them is backordered to infinity. Its actually pretty interesting right now industry wide. If you have a newer car and a module goes bad... you might be waiting 6+months without a car while making payments.

Meanwhile we need a new clutch pedal assy for an 84 Firebird because GM decided in the 80's that bushings aren't necessary between metal parts. $250 online from some vendor and we have it next week. Hopefully it fits right, if not we'll make it work or as my boss likes to say from his days with Renault 'MR' meaning modification required. Freaky how we're having an easier time getting parts for really old shit than for new shit.

 

Speaking of old shit, we got the trans out on the 65 Riviera finally and it's off to the rebuilder today. Trans is interesting, has a twin stall torque converter that GM marketed as the 'Switch-Pitch'. There's a solenoid inside that can switch between two different stall speeds, one for launch off the line with a higher stall and the other for cruising at higher speeds with a lower stall for smoother operation, less trans heat, and better fuel economy.