Britain's EU Referendum

[Duck-dono]

So I know this is going to be quite a deep topic, but I wanted to know what likemined people think about it. Thanks for replies!

[laminutederire]

3 minutes ago, Duck-dono said:

So I know this is going to be quite a deep topic, but I wanted to know what likemined people think about it. Thanks for replies!

Please UK leave Europe

[Okjoek]

This combined with the US likely going Trump (unless Bernie magically secures democratic nomination, in which case he would win by a landslide) spells western isolationism and the Kremlin will have free reign. Luckily I have some Russian language books in the event of rapid US deterioration and if nationalism becomes rampant in the world my Slavic Polish last name might help me fit in with the new eastern bloc's new world order.

 

As for the UK, I see potentially Scotland and Wales attempts for their own independence to grow so yeah I think brexit will hurt them. Possibly they will crack down on such attempts and revert to some sort of iron fisted regime of unity (much like my own Terran Republic from Planetside 2 

[laminutederire]

9 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

This combined with the US likely going Trump (unless Bernie magically secures democratic nomination, in which case he would win by a landslide) spells western isolationism and the Kremlin will have free reign. Luckily I have some Russian language books in the event of rapid US deterioration and if nationalism becomes rampant in the world my Slavic Polish last name might help me fit in with the new eastern bloc's new world order.

 

As for the UK, I see potentially Scotland and Wales attempts for their own independence to grow so yeah I think brexit will hurt them. Possibly they will crack down on such attempts and revert to some sort of iron fisted regime of unity (much like my own Terran Republic from Planetside 2 

Like the UK wasn't doing things alone before?

[Okjoek]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

Like the UK wasn't doing things alone before?

IDK maybe it's really "tin foil hat-esque" what I'm saying, but hey you never know.

 

The UK no longer really has an empire so they really need to be more self sufficient if there is to be a good outcome of Brexit. They've dodged the refugee crisis better than most, like my ancestral homeland of Poland. It's a bit late for countries like Germany or Sweden. It seems like the damage is done and they failed to isolate themselves in ways that I would've supported and that would've protected the EU as an entity. So the damage is really done there and now there's the question of what to do with all these people. Trying to distribute them has come with outrage from numerous member states and the countries are quickly succumbing to more radical governments. It's an uncertain time for the west for sure.

[You_are_a_cunt]

If the UK ends up separating itself from the EU I hope they send immigrants back home. I know my reasons are petty and fairly cruel, but I'd love to see a lot of them going back to their countries and their failed lives. [/rant]

[laminutederire]

The UK is a bitter country which thinks it is better than everyone in Europe and that they can live on their own, so I personnally want them out. And say no to them in ten years when they regret their choice.

As for the refugees, it isn't so much an issue if you look at the big picture. .

[Okjoek]

1 minute ago, laminutederire said:

The UK is a bitter country which thinks it is better than everyone in Europe and that they can live on their own, so I personnally want them out. And say no to them in ten years when they regret their choice.

As for the refugees, it isn't so much an issue if you look at the big picture. .

What really needs to happen is the EU needs to stand up to its supposed NATO ally Turkey and basically give their "neo-ottoman" regime the shaft. With Turkey out of the way the EU+USA could continue what they're doing to help the Kurds without Turkey's B****ing and join the Russian/Syrian Gov't forces to finally bring peace to Syria. The more of these darn proxy wars people like Obama/Hillary create and allow to drag out the more people will be displaced and the more worldwide refugee crisis will occur. 

 

I think UK is arrogant as well. I'm thankful that the country decided to keep to its word to go to war in 1939, but they then sold my culture to the USSR in 1945. For that the UK even if not an enemy certainly doesn't deserve me as a friend and if so maybe Russia can be a better partner so we can work out our bitter history if that's where the rest of the world like the UK was willing to place us in the first place.

[rhyseyness]

We know exactly what will happen if we stay in the EU.

It will be the same as it is now.

If we leave who knows what will happen!

Could be better, could be worse.

If it's worse, I believe we could rejoin without too much issue.

I'm voting leave.

Also I feel like voting leave is the "most British" thing to do.

We built an empire on "fuck it, let's see what happens."

The risk is worth it for the possibility of being better off (imo).

If it is worse, we can always go back (probably).

The EU want us to stay so I think if we left, they'd let us back in again if it does all go tits up.

Just my (extremely shortened) 2 pence

[laminutederire]

16 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

 

If the UK leave it probably won't ever come back to the EU. EU countries don't want the UK in it to be honest.

The Union is a dream of collaboration, and we've seen enough of the British money-driven bullshit to know that the UK doesn't want to have a future based on friendships and help.

(Sorry for the language)

 

Edit: Besides, it isn't like the UK is really in the EU, you have neither Euro currency or the will to be in the Schengen space. Both are symbols of European values UK doesn't share.

[rhyseyness]

2 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

If the UK leave it probably won't ever come back to the EU. EU don't want the UK in it to ne honest.

The Union is a dream of collaboration, and we've seen enough of the British money-driven bullshit to know that the UK doesn't want to have a future based on friendships and help.

(Sorry for the language)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/17/european-union-referendum-chart-shows-how-many-europeans-want-britain-to-leave-the-eu_n_9250942.html

I also disagree that the union is a "dream of collaboration."

I haven't seen anything that suggests that.

All the countries within the EU have their own agendas and way of doing things.

 

Greece would be my main case study for this (my political knowledge isn't all that though).

Despite the EU working together to try and help they've still not tightened up policies so they can be a more effective member of the union.

 

I agree with the idea of the EU.

I believe it should be a collaborative effort and all countries working together for the betterment of one another, but I just haven't seen enough of that over the last 10 years.

 

No need to apologise for the language, mine was worse

[laminutederire]

13 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2016/02/17/european-union-referendum-chart-shows-how-many-europeans-want-britain-to-leave-the-eu_n_9250942.html

I also disagree that the union is a "dream of collaboration."

I haven't seen anything that suggests that.

All the countries within the EU have their own agendas and way of doing things.

 

Greece would be my main case study for this (my political knowledge isn't all that though).

Despite the EU working together to try and help they've still not tightened up policies so they can be a more effective member of the union.

 

I agree with the idea of the EU.

I believe it should be a collaborative effort and all countries working together for the betterment of one another, but I just haven't seen enough of that over the last 10 years.

 

No need to apologise for the language, mine was worse

Well sorry to be that harsh, but polls amongst European are stupid, since it is like in every democracy, only a few educated ones know what the Union should be and was created to be, so they decided with subjective judgements.

 

You haven't seen it because democracy is dead, and so should be those ridiculous governments we all have..

Wait a decade or two, I have faith the power will get to the hands of those who will truly do something good for Europe and the world

In the meantime UK should leave because they don't help at all since they're in the EU, since you guys never agree on anything with the rest of the EU, which slows down a lot of things. 

[Duck-dono]

see me in Vietnam then

[rhyseyness]

2 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Well sorry to be that harsh, but polls amongst European are stupid, since it is like in every democracy, only a few educated ones know what the Union should be and was created to be, so they decided with subjective judgements.

 

You haven't seen it because democracy is dead, and so should be those ridiculous governments we all have..

Wait a decade or two, I have faith the power will get to the hands of those who will truly do something good for Europe and the world

In the meantime UK should leave because they don't help at all since they're in the EU, since you guys never agree on anything with the rest of the EU, which slows down a lot of things. 

I kind of agree, but it supported my argument so

 

I don't necessarily agree that government is a bad thing though.

 

I'd like to believe you that in a decade or two the EU will be on it's way to what it was created to be, but I just don't.

We do a lot of disagreeing, that's true, lol.

[mcraftax]

 

[laminutederire]

5 minutes ago, rhyseyness said:

I kind of agree, but it supported my argument so

 

I don't necessarily agree that government is a bad thing though.

 

I'd like to believe you that in a decade or two the EU will be on it's way to what it was created to be, but I just don't.

We do a lot of disagreeing, that's true, lol.

Well I could use those to my advantage if I made them lie

 

Government as they are right now are wrong, solely because the people in it shouldn't be there for the most part. To me they don't have the right values in mind, and therefore they don't help at all.

 

Well you ain't french so that's okay

I kinda have to believe in the EU, since it's the heritage of an insightful Frenchman, and he had this dream for the same reason I do: I hope for the best in people.

 

At least you're agreeing with me!

[Volbet]

43 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

Edit: Besides, it isn't like the UK is really in the EU, you have neither Euro currency or the will to be in the Schengen space. Both are symbols of European values UK doesn't share.

Would you care to elaborate? 

 

As far as I can tell the EU is a free trade union at it core, which the UK is very much a part of. 

A citizen from any EU country can freely enter the UK and begin working (which some Brits are pretty pissed about) and any item that is legally imported to the UK can freely be moved to any other EU country. 

This is what EU is about at its core. 

 

Open borders and the Euro are mearly add-ons to that core. 

 

25 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

In the meantime UK should leave because they don't help at all since they're in the EU, since you guys never agree on anything with the rest of the EU, which slows down a lot of things. 

So, what consitutes the general opinion of the EU? 

Is it the sceptics in Denmark, the lovers in Germany or the Golden Dawn in Greece that determins that?

 

As for the UK leaving the EU. That decision isn't for me to decide. 

I will leave that for the British people. 

 

What I can say is that both the Leave side and the Stay side have been full of misinformation and unconstructive pathos. 

[laminutederire]

@Volbet

First of all, UK isn't in the Schengen space, so you have border controls, which isn't really free movement.

Besides, economy isn't what EU is about at its core. It has never been. It was about peace. It was about all countries of Europe making one nation, a diverse nation still, but a nation anyway. It was about Germans feeling like they belong to EU as well as Spanish people

[Bhav]

I cant be bothered with voting, but if I did it would be to leave.

[Volbet]

21 hours ago, laminutederire said:

@Volbet

First of all, UK isn't in the Schengen space, so you have border controls, which isn't really free movement.

Besides, economy isn't what EU is about at its core. It has never been. It was about peace. It was about all countries of Europe making one nation, a diverse nation still, but a nation anyway. It was about Germans feeling like they belong to EU as well as Spanish people

"Free movement" only referes to legal bounderies. Not border control. It's not harder for a Spaniard to get a job in the UK than it is for a British citizen. 

The EU was and still is about removing restriction on the move of goods and work across borders. 

The Schengen agreement only aim is to make the flow of people easier. It's not a core value. 

 

And sure, the EU might have had peace as part of it's foundation, but it create this peace by controlling the materials used for war (hence why it was known as the coal and steel union). 

From there it moved into controlling how the memberstates traded goods across their borders. From then on the EU's modus operandi became to control toll. 

 

If the EU is determined by the feelings of the individual member states, then what memberstate determines what the EU is about?

The EU might act as a singular entity on the international scene, but internally it is a mixture of a varity of different countries which all have their own agendas. 

The Germans don't want the same theing as the Spanish. The Spanish don't agree with the Romanians and the Romanians don't see eye-to-eye with the Sweds. 

[laminutederire]

3 minutes ago, Volbet said:

 

What's the story behind the EU? Whose dream was it?

[Volbet]

20 hours ago, laminutederire said:

What's the story behind the EU? Whose dream was it?

If it was the ´dream´ of any one singular person that person would be Robert Schuman, the French Prime Minister. 

 

Basically, Belgium, France, Luxenburg, West Germany, the Netherlands and Italy got together in Paris in 1951 and signed the Treaty of Paris.

That treaty was signed with the purpose of controlling the flow of raw materials that made a war machine possible. This was done through a supranational organization known as the European Coal & Steel Community (ECSC).

So the ECSC went ahead and began controlling materials like steel, oil, coal and gas. 

 

Things like open borders and immigrant quotas wasn't part of the original thought, nor was it part of the EU when most of the memberstates joined.

[Bhav]

BTW theres actually a reason why I hate EU migration to the UK. We have so little housing space that in recent years landlords were forced to evict disabled tenants to make space for Romanians and refugees.

 

Its funny that Norway isnt an EU member and has severely strict immigration laws compared to the UK, but no one cares about that, lets just blame the evil UK for wanting to 'leave Europe' and have tighter controls on its own borders.

[SeriouslyMikey]

Honestly, I am torn right now. 

The EU have a lot of issues, and me being me and not really that into politics and knowledgeable about it, I'm not going to say anything that would make me look stupid. 

There's pros and cons to both sides of the argument, however, right now, I am looking at leaving. Purely down to economy.  

[laminutederire]

4 minutes ago, Bhav said:

BTW theres actually a reason why I hate EU migration to the UK. We have so little housing space that in recent years landlords were forced to evict disabled tenants to make space for Romanians and refugees.

 

Its funny that Norway isnt an EU member and has severely strict immigration laws compared to the UK, but no one cares about that, lets just blame the evil UK for wanting to 'leave Europe' and have tighter controls on its own borders.

Then try to put some work into controlling your borders and stop blaming France for it being too loose.