Britain's EU Referendum

[Castdeath97]

On 2 June 2016 at 6:19 PM, Bhav said:

What the fuck, why would we want the Euro when we still have the worlds strongest currency? You honestly have no clue what your blabbering about, Europe did exist before and without the EU, and it can surely manage without it as well. It serves absolutely no purpose but draining every member states wealth in order to maintain it.

Pretty sure the pound isn't the worlds strongest currency, it's either the Kuwaiti Dinar/Bahraini Dinar/Omani Dinar.

[Mug]

8 minutes ago, Castdeath97 said:

Pretty sure the pound isn't the worlds strongest currency, it's either the Kuwaiti Dinar/Bahraini Dinar/Omani Dinar.

Yes - in fact, the pound is doing rather poorly at the moment in the markets. This is in part because of the EU referrendum, the global slowdown and effective deflation (thus low interest rates).

[Quinnbeast]

26 minutes ago, maulemall said:

The problems in the middle east are of and only of Muslim extremism.

They got whatever they wanted and pissed it away and now their jihad and (Thanks to the royal Saudi family for funding it) is going to keep them in poverty for centuries to come.

The past doesn't mean shit. What happened yesterday or a thousand years ago doesn't mean shit.

if they are to willfully ignorant to see that then they ask for their own extinction.

 

Oh of course, you're right after all! These things all happen in a vacuum or a magic bubble! That being the case, decades (if not generations) of occupation and colonialism are in no-way to blame for the lasting impact they have had on a region the very next day after said occupation comes to an end. I guess you're not interested in a rational discussion, so I won't trouble you any further. That, or I just missed some blazing satire (in which case - kudos is due). And as I said, it's getting a bit off-topic anyway. G'nite!

[Castdeath97]

8 hours ago, maulemall said:

Oh yea because it was all sunshine and roses for 2000 years before...

I have no horse in the race but I personally hope whatever happens that England thrives and prospers.

Before 1000-800 years we had massive Scientific and mathematical discoveries in the Islamic golden age, and were significantly stronger in union.

 

Compared to now, the Middle East was sunshine and roses back then!

 

Nowadays? Civil wars basically every decade, neighbours won't stop fighting and governments change every decade from worse to worse.

 

Assuming it's all Islamic extremism fault isn't taking the whole story, was the first gulf war a result of Islamic extremism or economical issues? A load of the conflicts here in the modern age are rooted to political and economical failure.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Castdeath97
Elaborated more

[Security]

In general for the EU and at least in the short term the UK leaving will be a negative thing but overall I believe it would be a good thing in the long run, it would set an example which other countries might actually follow and would leave a good sign that the EU in it's current form simply doesn't work for the population. They need to change and start adding value for the common man instead of adding layers up on layers of bureaucracy with it's extra costs and coming up with rules none asked for.

 

They need to make the EU democratic, which also means I should be able to vote for representatives coming from other countries. And things like the current TTIP negotiations should be done in public. Not to mention the damage the ECB is currently doing... The EU needs a wake-up call and the UK leaving hopefully could be the thing to do this.

 

Edit: I almost forgot about the EGKS (Dutch name) which was set up in 1952 with a different ideal (mainly peace I think).

But looking at that you could say the Benelux set the precedent back in 1944.

 

On 2-6-2016 at 4:51 PM, laminutederire said:

@Volbet

 

Besides, economy isn't what EU is about at its core.

Well it was when a hand full of countries formed the EEG in 1958 (which is the origin of the EU in it's current form).

[laminutederire]

6 hours ago, Security said:

Well it was when a hand full of countries formed the EEG in 1958 (which is the origin of the EU in it's current form).

That's the thing, it comes from decades earlier. People have dreamt about the Europe I'm describing you in the 1920's.

But since politicians aren't dreamers they started why the easiest bond possible which is even today related to economics. 

[ThinkWithPortals]

This pretty much completely sums up my opinion on the topic:

 

 

TLDW:

- Staying in the EU, things will stay basically the same

- Leaving, we're not really sure what will happen

- EU Membership fee is inconsequential compared to other government expendatures

- It's kind of a case of "head says stay, gut says leave"

 

I vote stay.

[Misanthrope]

I see it as Germany vs Britain, and tbh Germany looks a lot worst they seem to have 0 fucking nuance or middle or moderate opinions: instead of the Hitler thing now they've swing back to the complete opposite spectrum with their German guilt letting Muslims pillage and plunder with impunity.

[Mug]

9 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

I see it as Germany vs Britain, and tbh Germany looks a lot worst they seem to have 0 fucking nuance or middle or moderate opinions: instead of the Hitler thing now they've swing back to the complete opposite spectrum with their German guilt letting Muslims pillage and plunder with impunity.

Gah! You Mug!

 

This isn't at all what's happening, unless your interpritation of events is incredibly right-wing.

 

[shdowhunt60]

16 minutes ago, Mug said:

Gah! You Mug!

 

This isn't at all what's happening, unless your interpritation of events is incredibly right-wing.

 

So, Muslim immigrants aren't taking over neighborhoods and imposing Sharia law within them?

[Mug]

15 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

So, Muslim immigrants aren't taking over neighborhoods and imposing Sharia law within them?

If that is happening then it's more a sign of an ineffective police force than too much immigration.

[PepsiBandit]

Context: I'm from the UK but have been living in Denmark for the last 2 years and plan to stay here. 

Due to this I go to language lessons to learn Danish (provided for free by the government) and meet quite a few Syrians that are doing the same. All the ones I have met have been normal, and even accepting when stuff like gay rights come up in class discussions. They have a different culture but on the whole they will adapt and integrate, assuming you don't just build a town and put them all there.

On 6/2/2016 at 7:11 PM, Bhav said:

Because other countries arent as desirable to move to as the UK is.

There are quite a few other countries that are more desirable. The UK welfare system doesn't really seem that great at supporting people unless it's a family, and even then it's pretty bad. I guess one of the few things we do have at least is the English language which is very widely used, other than that I can't think of why they would want to go there more than other places. 

On 6/2/2016 at 6:17 PM, Bhav said:

BTW theres actually a reason why I hate EU migration to the UK. We have so little housing space that in recent years landlords were forced to evict disabled tenants to make space for Romanians and refugees.

 

Its funny that Norway isnt an EU member and has severely strict immigration laws compared to the UK, but no one cares about that, lets just blame the evil UK for wanting to 'leave Europe' and have tighter controls on its own borders.

I think you'll always find rare cases like that.
Norway has to accept any EU citizen, contribute to the EU budget and comply with EU rules as it is part of the EEA but not a member of the EU (meaning they cant help make the rules). 


One of the articles I found fairly good to read was this:
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2016/05/27/dear-friends-this-is-why-i-will-vote-remain-in-the-referendum/
It was pretty balanced and actually sites sources worth checking out. 

[shdowhunt60]

18 minutes ago, Mug said:

If that is happening then it's more a sign of an ineffective police force than too much immigration.

That's actually always what happened with mass immigration. I know you Brits are new to this stuff, but there wouldn't be a Chinatown in San Francisco if it wasn't due to the massive amounts of Chinese immigrants that poured in to escape communism. Same goes for Italians in Brooklyn and New York.

 

Here's the difference: the Muslims don't want to play nice like the Chinese (and eventually, the Italians) did.

[Mug]

42 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

That's actually always what happened with mass immigration. I know you Brits are new to this stuff, but there wouldn't be a Chinatown in San Francisco if it wasn't due to the massive amounts of Chinese immigrants that poured in to escape communism. Same goes for Italians in Brooklyn and New York.

 

Here's the difference: the Muslims don't want to play nice like the Chinese (and eventually, the Italians) did.

*says Britain is new to this*

*Doesn't realise that Britain's governing system has nearly been going for 1,000 years*

*Doesn't realise that Britain is a country of immigrants more so than America*

 

Yeah, in my city, there's a Chinatown too.

 

With Muslims, it's a small minority that's the problem and you can't stereotype 2 billion people as all the same and all unwilling to integrate. In reality, it's the culture they're going into that depends on how integration goes.

[shdowhunt60]

1 minute ago, Mug said:

With Muslims, it's a small minority that's the problem and you can't stereotype 2 billion people as all the same and all unwilling to integrate. In reality, it's the culture they're going into that depends on how integration goes.

"small minority"

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/04/11/poll-of-british-muslims-n2146122

 

lol

[Mug]

2 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

"small minority"

 

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2016/04/11/poll-of-british-muslims-n2146122

 

lol

I know of the results of this poll. Their views do not mean that they can't integrate nor are these views their fault.

[shdowhunt60]

Their "views" are basically to violently reject integrating at all costs. And the fact that they're wanting to impose a parallel justice system, with their own laws and judicial system, is nothing but indicative of that. They're not looking to integrate, they're looking to conquer.

[Mug]

3 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Their "views" are basically to violently reject integrating at all costs. And the fact that they're wanting to impose a parallel justice system, with their own laws and judicial system, is nothing but indicative of that. They're not looking to integrate, they're looking to conquer.

I disagree fundamentally.

[shdowhunt60]

1 minute ago, Mug said:

I disagree fundamentally.

In other words, "I reject your reality and substitute my own".

[Mug]

8 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

In other words, "I reject your reality and substitute my own".

That is just another way of admitting to bigotry.

 

I'm just stunned that you think that all Muslims are like this, it's so prejudicial. If you published those views in a book in this country, you could be sent to prison for inciting hatred.

[shdowhunt60]

14 minutes ago, Mug said:

I'm just stunned that you think that all Muslims are like this

That's not even what I said lol. I said that shocking amounts of them DO. And the numbers show that a VERY large portion of the Islamic community DOES.

[Mug]

30 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Their "views" are basically to violently reject integrating at all costs

Implies they all share this opinion

30 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

And the fact that they're wanting to impose a parallel justice system

Implies that they all want Sharia courts

31 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

They're not looking to integrate, they're looking to conquer.

Implies they all want to stay apart and conquer

 

5 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

That's not even what I said lol. I said that shocking amounts of them DO. And the numbers show that a VERY large portion of the Islamic community DOES.

So yes. Yes it is exactly what you said. Don't speak for all Muslims as a unit.

 

I still fundamentally disagree.

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Their "views" are basically to violently reject integrating at all costs. And the fact that they're wanting to impose a parallel justice system, with their own laws and judicial system, is nothing but indicative of that. They're not looking to integrate, they're looking to conquer.

That poll seems pretty fishy to me - the way you ask the question can often skew the answers in whatever way you want - it also depends on who the respondents were, and how you sought them out.

 

Furthermore, it said 23% supported Sharia Law. Another way to put that is 77% Oppose Sharia Law. Sounds much different when put that way, huh?

 

Also, 79% condemn the stoning of a person who committed adultery.

[Monkey Dust]

6 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

So, Muslim immigrants aren't taking over neighborhoods and imposing Sharia law within them?

Not everything Donald Trump says is true.

 

 

[PepsiBandit]

This was a survey of just 1000 people, I cant see which area they were from, if they were a mix of male / female or anything else. I think that would be interesting to know, if anyone can find that. I'm assuming other questions were also asked and these are just the cherry picked ones they thought were provocative. 

 

52% of them disagreeing with homosexuality being legal. I don't see that as much of a problem, it doesn't seem much worse than America from the sound of it. 

5% sympathise stoning. I don't think I could defend even 1% but at the same time I don't agree with capital punishment.