Smoking Barrels - LTT's Unnofficial Gun Club!

[Rybo]

On 5/5/2020 at 6:12 PM, fpo said:

Also, I got the Walther PPS M2. Thing is sooo comfortable in the hands. Just gotta wait for the permit to finish so I can get it in like 6 months haha. It only came with 2 mags though. Only the "military" version comes with 3.
PPQ was comfy too but rather large. Mossberg makes plastic magazines & I wasn't too into that. PPK was nice, but I saw a lot of people get slide bite, they're much more expensive & shoot a more expensive less powerful round. 1911 were out of the price range but I'd feel confident carrying cocked & locked.

I'm a Walther fan.  I carry the CCP -- it's a great size and it's very comfy.  I also have two PPQs: one in .40, one in 9mm (it's the Q5 match), with 5" barrels.  Great grips, visually pleasing, and I'm happy enough with their reliability.  The CCP can't eat all hollow point ammo, but if you feed it right, it won't let you down.  

My most interesting purchase is a Steyr Aug, though.  Just got it recently.  Bullpups in general are neat to have for home defense.  Much easier to navigate indoors and hallways with 'em.  Haven't had much opportunity to shoot it, but I've never been a stickler for triggers anyways, and that's the main complaint.  Long, heavy trigger pull.  Mag reloads are a bit funky as well, but I'm not a competitor or anything, so I can live with it.  I just luv the compact design.  

[Guest]

On 5/18/2020 at 3:22 PM, atxcyclist said:

I loaded some appropriate .45-70 for my Springfield Trapdoor M1884 made in 1889.

Did you cast the projectiles yourself? Looking good.

7 minutes ago, Rybo said:

I'm a Walther fan.  I carry the CCP -- it's a great size and it's very comfy. 

I was looking at that recently. It's a good looking interesting gun. I was initially turned off by the weird takedown & maybe the ammo. If I only end up having 1 pistol, I want to load anything into it. Still a neato gun.

7 minutes ago, Rybo said:

I also have two PPQs: one in .40, one in 9mm (it's the Q5 match), with 5" barrels.  Great grips, visually pleasing, and I'm happy enough with their reliability. 

...

The CCP can't eat all hollow point ammo, but if you feed it right, it won't let you down.  

sooooo comfortable. I was considering the PPQSC (short handle subcompact) one of the PPQ were on sale when I was shopping. It was very tempting but it was 10mm or .40 s&w. I was thinking 9mm would be best as it's the most common bullet.

If I was going to get a full size, I would've prolly gotten that .40 PPQ.

7 minutes ago, Rybo said:

My most interesting purchase is a Steyr Aug, though.  Just got it recently.  Bullpups in general are neat to have for home defense.  Much easier to navigate indoors and hallways with 'em.  Haven't had much opportunity to shoot it, but I've never been a stickler for triggers anyways, and that's the main complaint.  Long, heavy trigger pull.  Mag reloads are a bit funky as well, but I'm not a competitor or anything, so I can live with it.  I just luv the compact design.  

My friend has an AUG. He says it's his favourite out of all his guns. Excluding MAYBE the FN 5.7. (And his Uzi.)

I held a steyr pistol once. That was an interesting design. Very unique.

I have some airsoft AUG so I have some familiarity with the body design. It's a cool gun. I think bullpups should be more common, but the only real flaw IMO is hard to access magazine reload. An AR-15 is bing bang boom. Any bullpup is still a bit slower.
Which for civilians, doesn't matter at all unless in a competition. Most states let you have 30~45 round mags, so a bullpup is no issue.

 

Thinking on bullpups. The AUG is probably the best one. Not that I'm an expert & most gun variety knowledge comes from Call of Duty.

[Rybo]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

Which for civilians, doesn't matter at all unless in a competition. 

 

Thinking on bullpups. The AUG is probably the best one. Not that I'm an expert & most gun variety knowledge comes from Call of Duty.

Ironically, the militaries that have had the AUG as standard issue *HATE* them.  They didn't want to surrender the firearms when they were replaced with AR-style rifles.  They wanted to burn them in a large, cathartic pyre.  

 

Don't remember why, though.  I don't think it was reliability or anything, as it's supposedly more reliable than a nice AR-15.  People in the field just...didn't like it.  

 

But yeah, AUG is very likely the best one -- it's been around for like 40+ years and has been military standard issue in several countries, so the design and utility have been vetted in extreme conditions.  And personally?  I like the visual aesthetic way more than many of the newer "tactical" bullpups.  Which is weird, because I prefer the tactical AR-15's to the AR-15's with a similar plastic design (namely the solid stock and the large, solid forend) to the AUG.  

[atxcyclist]

6 minutes ago, fpo said:

Did you cast the projectiles yourself? Looking good.

Not quite to casting yet, but probably some day. I don’t have a casting furnace or any molds yet, but I do have 100 lbs of pure lead ingots and maybe 75 lbs of wheel weights. I got them for free from a friend that had them left at a house he was renting out.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Rybo said:

Ironically, the militaries that have had the AUG as standard issue *HATE* them.  They didn't want to surrender the firearms when they were replaced with AR-style rifles.  They wanted to burn them in a large, cathartic pyre.  

They look like hell to clean & take apart. They must be really finicky on the inside.

AR-15 is like 6 parts maybe? Upper, lower, bolt, bolt face.

AUG is like, barrel, buttplate, trigger mechanis, bolt, bolt face, pins, & such maybe?

1 minute ago, Rybo said:

But yeah, AUG is very likely the best one -- it's been around for like 40+ years and has been military standard issue in several countries, so the design and utility have been vetted in extreme conditions.  And personally?  I like the visual aesthetic way more than many of the newer "tactical" bullpups.  Which is weird, because I prefer the tactical AR-15's to the AR-15's with a similar plastic design (namely the solid stock and the large, solid forend) to the AUG.  

I think firearms should be less "customizable."

You look at the AK & what can you change really? The stock for a purpose, and add a foregrip?
What do you change on an aug? The scope?

 

I think a gun should be designed for a purpose, not to be adapted to every purpose.

When I was pistol shopping, everyone told me to get a glock. Then in the next sentence they were telling me what parts I need to replace. I was like "hold on... this is a 500$ gun! It's not a nerf toy that needs an upgrade." So I went shopping for a gun that had everything I needed. A small gun that feels good & has good sights. When I got the AK, most of it was based on me shooting it in the past & loving the mechanics feel but it's a finished gun. It has the muzzle break, a comfortable grip & stock.

 

I have some airsoft M4 guns & ran them a lot. (I played every weekend 9-6 for a long time) All I really put on there is a foregrip & then I have this heavy metal rail I don't need. Even then, sometimes I just used the magazine as the foregrip. Considering I didn't have to deal with recoil, but still.

Not only do guns like the plain rifle just look good, but I think they're practical as well.

Yeah, customization is nice, but when I got the airsoft G36, I didn't put any attachments on there because the gun just felt good in the hands.

Though there is really nothing wrong with someone wanting a custom rifle or the ability to stick random stuff on there, I think guns are better in practicality than customization.

[Rybo]

1 minute ago, fpo said:

When I was pistol shopping, everyone told me to get a glock. Then in the next sentence they were telling me what parts I need to replace.

Yeah!  I don't get that at all.  People are so...aware of the trigger pull.  I get it at the extreme ends -- for example, the CCP comes stock with a long trigger pull and a LONG reset, versus the PPQ which is nearly DA/SA -- the first pull is long, but it resets almost instantly.  But a Glock?  The trigger is fine.  I can tell a difference, but it has no effect on my shooting.  Ditto on the sights.  The only thing to upgrade is to night sights if you plan on carrying it/shooting it in low light situations.  

Basically, the "upgrade" people are the ones shooting at VERY high skill levels in competitions and such.  For normies, though?  Nahhhh.  (Though if you do have the opportunity to get a red dot on a pistol, I would recommend it.  It's a very neat [if expensive] experience -- and it's why I got my PPQ Q5 Match)

Rifles do make a bit more difference.  The core functions definitely should "just work", but minor changes can be huge.  For example, on my AR-15, I got a special muzzle brake that actually makes the gun recoil downwards.  The forend does make a difference as well -- you mentioned gripping the mag.  That'll work, but if you want a grip farther out, replace the forend with one with a pistol grip!  Use a bipod?  Attach one to the forend!  Get a forend that is an MLOC rail so you can add and remove stuff like that at will.  Etc.  And in very precise shooting, having a hair trigger probably makes a difference as well.  Then there's the sights.  Peep sights for redundancy, red dot for quick target acquisition, scope for magnification.  Some wingnuts have all of them running at once -- they put the red dot off to the side and cant the rifle when they want to use it

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Rybo said:

Yeah!  I don't get that at all.  People are so...aware of the trigger pull.  I get it at the extreme ends -- for example, the CCP comes stock with a long trigger pull and a LONG reset, versus the PPQ which is nearly DA/SA -- the first pull is long, but it resets almost instantly.  But a Glock?  The trigger is fine.  I can tell a difference, but it has no effect on my shooting.  Ditto on the sights. 

Okay, so I'm not the only one thinking "most pistols are probably fine."

tbh there's a lot of options out there & yeah I was kinda looking for things, but I was overwhelmed & just was like "What's low cost & good?" Glocks are like 500+~ my walther was like 300-400 ish range.

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The only thing to upgrade is to night sights if you plan on carrying it/shooting it in low light situations.  

I am fine with my white paint. Someone got me some training videos from this guy called "Thunder Ranch." basically he said "Night sights are dumb. You can see your sights but you can't see what you're shooting at. I don't want to shoot at anything I can't see. If it's my friend, I can't see him in the dark. Put a flashlight on your gun, not night sights." Which makes sense.

Why shoot when you don't know what you're shooting?

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Basically, the "upgrade" people are the ones shooting at VERY high skill levels in competitions and such.  For normies, though?  Nahhhh. 

That's kinda my consensus with the "upgrades are stupid" ideology. I'm not some elite sniper. Most people aren't. Most violent situations are about making people leave than killing them. Walking around forests & town, there's typically no physical distance long enough to warrant precision shooting. Walls, trees & hills make it nearly impossible to engage from far away. If I'm shooting for recreation, I don't need to be super far away. At that point it's more about my bipod & monopod than my shooting.

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(Though if you do have the opportunity to get a red dot on a pistol, I would recommend it.  It's a very neat [if expensive] experience -- and it's why I got my PPQ Q5 Match)

I heard about those. Some pistols have rails on top. SIG (from SIG SAUER) makes a $150 red dot sight you can get on amazon. I'm not sure what counts as expensive, but like the 500$ EO Techs are expensive to me. $230~ and less is a bit more "okay, if I need it, I can justify this."

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Rifles do make a bit more difference.  The core functions definitely should "just work",

Naturally.

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but minor changes can be huge.  For example, on my AR-15, I got a special muzzle brake that actually makes the gun recoil downwards.  

My point is that "If the AR-15 isn't stable to shoot out of the box, why do I need to but a seperate muzzle brake to make it better to shoot? Shouldn't the engineer have thought of this?"

I've seen some AR-15 muzzle breaks like this one

Spoiler

which seems reasonable. Vents the gas up to push down. Flat on the bottom so it pushes down. If your gun doesn't come with one, then I think you bought an incomplete gun. Additionally, if you need to change it, then the gun itself is flawed. What's it cost to cast a small muzzle device? $20 at most? Markup is up to 100%. What's it cost extra to cast a good one? $10?  okay so the gun goes from being +$40 to being $+60. $20 difference isn't much when you're in the 700 range.
Where most rifles are about 600-800 for decent stuff in my opinion. Like above average.

My rifle came with the muzzle slant. It works fine. I thought buying one without it was buying an incomplete rifle. I shouldn't need to change the muzzle unless I put a silencer on there. The only reason I'd need a silencer is if I was special forces or in the apocalypse, so I won't need a silencer.

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The forend does make a difference as well -- you mentioned gripping the mag.  That'll work, but if you want a grip farther out, replace the forend with one with a pistol grip!  Use a bipod?  Attach one to the forend! 

Foregrips makes some sense. But even then, they should almost be integrated in my opinion. Personally I got the classic AK47 which I think is comfortable. If I wanted a foregrip, I should buy the AK with the foregrip built in. I don't need to drill in a rail system. I think that's kinda ridiculous. The gun should have it or not have it. The bipod is a bit more weapon specific. I think it makes sense to include on certain weapons, but I don't think the end user should just slap one on anything. Some precision rifles, designed for precision shooting warrant it. An AK or M4(AR-15) don't really warrant it unless it was designed for precision like the "M110" which is a type of designated marksman's rifle. Someone who is doing precision shooting.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Foregrip AK

Classic AK (Airsoft replica but looks the same)

However, I'm thinking more like, changing out the stock, the rail system, the trigger components, other nonsense.
Like do I really need to change the trigger bar on my glock? Do I need to change the sights?

Do I need to pimp out my dust cover?

What's a PEQ box going to realistically do for me?

Personally I have a bayonet, so I do have an attachment. It's not a customization, but it's part of the gun. It's designed for close quarters use. If I'm in my house & I cannot shoot, I'd rather have the spear of an AK than an empty gun.
I also have a sling so I can carry my rifle.

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Get a forend that is an MLOC rail so you can add and remove stuff like that at will. 

I think each gun should have a specific purpose. My AK isn't a concealed carry rifle. It's not a precision rifle either. It's a battle type rifle. My Walther PPS is a conceal pistol. It's not suited for law enforcement, it's suited for concealed carry. I don't need to swiftly attach & detach components. If my pistol had a flashlight, I wouldn't need to take the flashlight off. I'm not going to quick change to a laser & just not use a flashlight.

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Etc.  And in very precise shooting, having a hair trigger probably makes a difference as well.  Then there's the sights. 

Shouldn't the rifle come with the hair trigger for precision shooting if it was designed for hair trigger precision shooting?

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Peep sights for redundancy, red dot for quick target acquisition, scope for magnification.  Some wingnuts have all of them running at once -- they put the red dot off to the side and cant the rifle when they want to use it

I think this person has too many sights.

Red dot sights can run off of batteries for a very long time. Scopes like the ACOG don't even run off of power. It's a fiber optic that is boosted with tridium.

2 sights at most. Even then, that's excessive.

I'm no expert with airsoft, but sights can break. I've had like 5 red dots that were like 30~60$ and they get shot out, shatter, so fourth.

I think Iron sights are the good enough & also don't need batteries.

If you're sniping, a scope makes sense. A close range sight makes sense too as 6x zoom isn't as helpful in a 30 foot engagement. However even then, you can probably hip fire decently well or look down the side.

BB guns & airsoft & paintball aren't firearms but they launch a projectile. If you kinda just look down the side of the gun like a shotgun, you are pretty accurate for short distances.
I hear they train eastern block troops to focus on the front iron sight in buildings & western troops dubbed it the "soviet Eo tech." It's good enough for those distances.

 

Scopes make sense in many instances. Red Dots can be easy to use. I don't think it should be seperate though.

The G36 has a built in 3.5x scope integrated to the carry handle. The G36C has iron sights because it's not designed for long range. Why should a gun not come with what's needed? Why should you throw extra nonsense on your firearm?

[Aimi]

Recently picked this up, haven't found any ammo for it yet though.

Spoiler

 

[handymanshandle]

been awhile since I posted here lol

 

You know, I wonder how hard it would be to make things official with moving a gun from Minnesota to Alabama would be when I eventually move lol I can't imagine that hard if I have the gun in a case in the back of a moving truck although if I recall correctly Illinois has a stupid requirement to transport a gun lol

 

Honestly though I think I still wanna wait until I move to buy a firearm lol

 

and then I will be closer to being 21 (I turn 21 in January) and then I can get a CCW lol
I think the plan for an EDC would be a M&P Shield or maybe a PPQ, not sure if I'd want .45 or 9mm guess it honestly doesn't matter lol

[vf1000ride]

On 5/28/2020 at 4:35 PM, Aimi said:

Recently picked this up, haven't found any ammo for it yet though.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Arisaka?  What caliber?

[Real_PhillBert]

I ordered more goodies for the SBR project today; Trigger and buffer tube assembly. 

[IkeaGnome]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:43 AM, Rybo said:

Basically, the "upgrade" people are the ones shooting at VERY high skill levels in competitions and such.  For normies, though?  Nahhhh.  (Though if you do have the opportunity to get a red dot on a pistol, I would recommend it.  It's a very neat [if expensive] experience -- and it's why I got my PPQ Q5 Match)

I see that a lot. I grew up in a Glock family. I've shot 1911s, Smith and Wessons, Sig, I just grew up with the Glock feel. I trust it and the reliability. I know the rest of those are usually really good guns too. I just haven't had time with them to build up that same "trust." My 23, I know what it takes to have a misfire. The torture test we did with "rapid" shooting to see how hot it could get before an issue was roughly 150 rounds. Not going for bullseye on the rounds, just contacting paper. As quick as I could. It got hot enough that the plastic for the picatinny rail under the barrel wanted to deform if I pushed on it. It just had a bad ejection of one round. Set the gun down, did some target shooting with an AR mag at 30 rounds, picked the Glock back up and it acted like nothing ever happened. The aren't the most accurate pistols by any means, but for what they are carried for, I trust it with my life. 23(.40) for around town, especially when I'm in Anchorage. Now that bears are awake again, I carry my Gen 4 40(10mm) in the woods. Fire Glocks at CCW ranges and they won't disappoint. You might be uncomfortable with the trigger or the grip, but you pull the trigger and it does its job.

Glocks. You either love them or hate them. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

and then I will be closer to being 21 (I turn 21 in January) and then I can get a CCW lol

I think the plan for an EDC would be a M&P Shield or maybe a PPQ, not sure if I'd want .45 or 9mm guess it honestly doesn't matter lol

I think you should shoot a few pistols if you haven't.
Personally I got the Walther PPS M2 (Skinny PPQ)

The guy Hickock 45 on youtube or someone else mentioned that you should go to a gun store & just hold a bunch of guns & find one that feels comfortable.

 

I didn't like the shields because every time I shot one, I felt like it was too skinny & uncomfortable. That's just me though. I shot a glock 19 & it was fine. I shot a beretta 92, I shot a Ruger SRC9. They were all fine. 92 was felt a bit front heavy though. My favourite was a 4" 357 revolver but the store I went to only had $800 ones. I didn't know they had cheaper ones that were still good.

I went with 9mm because it's the cheapest bullet aside from like .22.

My relative got me these videos by this guy called "Thunder Ranch" and he talks about some cool stuff. I also think some training is important. Guns aren't complicated, but some in person guidance is helpful.

[handymanshandle]

15 minutes ago, fpo said:

I think you should shoot a few pistols if you haven't.
Personally I got the Walther PPS M2 (Skinny PPQ)

The guy Hickock 45 on youtube or someone else mentioned that you should go to a gun store & just hold a bunch of guns & find one that feels comfortable.

 

I didn't like the shields because every time I shot one, I felt like it was too skinny & uncomfortable. That's just me though. I shot a glock 19 & it was fine. I shot a beretta 92, I shot a Ruger SRC9. They were all fine. 92 was felt a bit front heavy though. My favourite was a 4" 357 revolver but the store I went to only had $800 ones. I didn't know they had cheaper ones that were still good.

I went with 9mm because it's the cheapest bullet aside from like .22.

My relative got me these videos by this guy called "Thunder Ranch" and he talks about some cool stuff. I also think some training is important. Guns aren't complicated, but some in person guidance is helpful.

yeah before I did even buy a pistol I would certainly want to feel them in hand and shoot them first.

 

Good to know about the Shields lol

I'm kinda interested in Walther in part for their sponsorship of Louder With Crowder lol

 

If 9mm is cheaper then I'd probably go for that, since I mean it seems like for pistols for defensive use it's really not about the caliber but the training and being able to group your shots as consistently as possible.

[Rybo]

2 hours ago, Voluspa said:

I see that a lot. I grew up in a Glock family. I've shot 1911s, Smith and Wessons, Sig, I just grew up with the Glock feel. I trust it and the reliability. I know the rest of those are usually really good guns too. I just haven't had time with them to build up that same "trust." My 23, I know what it takes to have a misfire. The torture test we did with "rapid" shooting to see how hot it could get before an issue was roughly 150 rounds. Not going for bullseye on the rounds, just contacting paper. As quick as I could. It got hot enough that the plastic for the picatinny rail under the barrel wanted to deform if I pushed on it. It just had a bad ejection of one round. Set the gun down, did some target shooting with an AR mag at 30 rounds, picked the Glock back up and it acted like nothing ever happened. The aren't the most accurate pistols by any means, but for what they are carried for, I trust it with my life. 23(.40) for around town, especially when I'm in Anchorage. Now that bears are awake again, I carry my Gen 4 40(10mm) in the woods. Fire Glocks at CCW ranges and they won't disappoint. You might be uncomfortable with the trigger or the grip, but you pull the trigger and it does its job.

Glocks. You either love them or hate them. 

Glocks are industry standard for a reason!  The only reason I don't have one is because they're too "mainstream" and blocky for my tastes.  Plus, I'm more into hammer fired da/sa autoloaders nowadays.  The striker control device offered for Glocks comes close, but I just love the da/sa trigger, plus the idea that the gun is inert without a trigger pull.  Striker fired guns, even with striker control devices, are still cocked at all times and depend on functioning safeties to prevent the striker from being released.  

I know it's irrational and that striker fired guns will never realistically auto discharge (and I do carry striker fired guns as often as not -- until they come out with a compact single stack hammer fired gun, that is), but they're my fee-fee's and I like having them   

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

yeah before I did even buy a pistol I would certainly want to feel them in hand and shoot them first.

 

Good to know about the Shields lol

 

They're popular and most people like them. They might have interchangable grips that come with it, so maybe I only shot ones with the skinny grip. I'd ask at the store.

31 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

I'm kinda interested in Walther in part for their sponsorship of Louder With Crowder lol

Ahh. I heard of that guy. "Change my mind" iirc.

I was looking at Walthers because everyone told me to change parts on glocks (which isn't necessary imo) and I held an airsoft PPQ and was like "this is super comfortable..." but was skeptical of the PPQ's high price. I didn't look at mossberg's stuff at all since they had translucent plastic magazines which reminded me of plastic toys that break easy even though I didn't even touch the magazine.
I think consulting the salesmen is a good idea because they deal with guns all day every day. I also went with the PPS because it was low cost & my state has a legal limit on magazine capacity as well as rounds in magazine. There's a cool gun called the sig P365 that's nice.

There are a lotttt of guns. If there weren't I'd have just bought a glock but plenty of guns are good nowadays.

 

If you want to get a walther, check out the Walther CCP M2. That's another interesting gun. Watch In Range TV's video on it for why it would be a good choice. Most other people are like "weird to disassemble, don't want."

31 minutes ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

If 9mm is cheaper then I'd probably go for that, since I mean it seems like for pistols for defensive use it's really not about the caliber but the training and being able to group your shots as consistently as possible.

It's not like 5 vs 30$ cheaper for the most part.

At a local store, a 1000 rd box of bulk 9mm is like 150~175. A bulk box of 45 is like 175~210 maybe.

At stores, 9mm is like 12-15$ 45 is lie 17-25$

 

9mm is fine, but the costs are similar enough to not really be a huge difference in my perspective. You're old enough to have a job, so it's not like you're required to be saving up every penny every second.

38 is also not hugely more expensive than 9mm.

[IkeaGnome]

15 minutes ago, Rybo said:

Glocks are industry standard for a reason!  

At the end of the day, I live in a harsh area, and when I'm carrying it's for protection. I love the reliability, and that's always been the biggest selling point on firearms for me. That's why before the 40MOS, an 870 Super mag was my woods gun. Got a great deal on that. Turkey gun at Walmart for under $350. Cut the barrel down to 1/8" above legal length in Alaska, added a 2 round extended tube, and for sights I actually went with a duck sight that Cabelas sells. Rear sight is a rectangle. Point behind the sight is how much of the duck fits in the rear sight gives a good idea of how far away it is. Well, if a bear's head is running at me and larger than the sight it's a justifiable self defense shot. The game warden I delt with 2 or so years ago when I used that sight loved the idea. Takes the "adrenaline" of a bear charge out of the equation. "I think I shot first when he was at that tree over there *50 yards away* to "He was running at me and his head was larger than this giant rear sight." It was weird to get used to at first, but once I got comfortable with that set up I didn't have issues aiming it. Just had to do the focus front sight thing that was mentioned a page or two ago.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Dead-Ringer-Drop-Box-Sight/1579438.uts?slotId=1

[SansVarnic]

1 hour ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

If 9mm is cheaper then I'd probably go for that, since I mean it seems like for pistols for defensive use it's really not about the caliber but the training and being able to group your shots as consistently as possible.

Yes and no.

The 9mm is a cheaper round and is an easier round to shoot. But as you learn, different calibers do have their place, for example;

The age old long debate 9mm vs .45, they both have their merits, the 9mm is a penetrating round where as the .45 is a subsonic knockdown round and they both do damage but they do damage differently. Using the ball round the .45 is more effective in knock-down results but using hollow points they break about even, granted the .45 still has more punch due to weight but the 9mm makes up for it in velocity.

I don't listen to the debates on this as today it is more about ease of use and preference.

 

I for one own handguns in both .45 and .40. I like these, I used my .40 as a service weapon and it is a fantastic round, it is that happy medium between the 9mm and the .45. Its a penetrator but it is also a knockdown round. Easy on the user since its not as heavy as the .45 but it is heavier than the 9mm. The .40 and 10mm is closely equivalent to each other in most ways but the 10mm has more powder. (The rounds are not interchangeable though). 

Personally I don't fancy 9mm as I am rather a large guy so it feels to light in my hand, I prefer the .40.

The most accurate handgun I have ever shot is my 1911 in .45.

 

50 minutes ago, Rybo said:

Glocks are industry standard for a reason! 

Personally I cannot stand Glocks, poor design for field use, feels wrong in the hand as the grip is at the wrong angle and shape, I could go on but it falls on preference like anything else.

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

I don't listen to the debates on this as today it is more about ease of use and preference.

That's what I've found.
There's a guy called "Paul Harrel" on YouTube that makes some long winded videos and shows that most popular calibres are perfectly fine by analysis.

 

The FBI test everyone quotes summarizes that 9mm is the smallest calibre they tested to be effective enough at being lethal against human adversaries. .380 failed but only by that much.

I saw a few other charts & the only way to get a statistical 50% lethality is to use .357. Everything else is less likely.

[Rybo]

2 minutes ago, fpo said:

That's what I've found.
There's a guy called "Paul Harrel" on YouTube that makes some long winded videos and shows that most popular calibres are perfectly fine by analysis.

 

The FBI test everyone quotes summarizes that 9mm is the smallest calibre they tested to be effective enough at being lethal against human adversaries. .380 failed but only by that much.

I saw a few other charts & the only way to get a statistical 50% lethality is to use .357. Everything else is less likely.

This.  Also Paul Harrell Rocks.  

The big thing I hunt for is capacity.  Hence why I own, but don't really carry, a .40 auto loader.  I've got a full size FNX-9 (17+1 rounds) that I carry daily, plus an 8+1 Walther CCP that I carry when I don't feel like having a giant spikey ball of death on my hip that day.  

Ironically, I do own a little subcompact .380, but it came full circle: it's a small round, but the gun is so small and hard to hold that it's actually more difficult to shoot.  So it's only my lolgun that I pull out when someone asks which gun I have kicks the hardest.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Rybo said:

The big thing I hunt for is capacity. 

FN 5.7? 20 or 30 rds per mag. Also uses a rifle type round.
Ruger also has a 5.7 they released recently.

 

Or just carry a rifle if that's allowed.

[SansVarnic]

31 minutes ago, fpo said:

.380 failed but only by that much.

Yeah. My father owns a 1911 in .380 and that thing is a beast, light in the hand easy to shoot but boy does it penetrate, more so than being destructive to tissue, almost like shooting someone with a .223 at close range but with a bit more damage, just passes right through.

24 minutes ago, Rybo said:

Ironically, I do own a little subcompact .380, but it came full circle: it's a small round, but the gun is so small and hard to hold that it's actually more difficult to shoot.  So it's only my lolgun that I pull out when someone asks which gun I have kicks the hardest.  

I shot a snub .38 once and that was the only and last time, gun was so small in my hands I could not grip the handle, I turned down a security job as they would only allow us to carry snub .38's and I just looked at the guy and asked him how the hell I was supposed to hold this thing (I could fit the entire gun inside my hand). Company policy would not allow any other model of handgun or revolver. I was appalled by the policy and walked away.

 

 

[Rybo]

1 hour ago, fpo said:

FN 5.7? 20 or 30 rds per mag. Also uses a rifle type round.
Ruger also has a 5.7 they released recently.

 

Or just carry a rifle if that's allowed.

The ammo on the Five Seven is a bit on the pricey side, and so is the gun itself, sadly.  And has the FBI even done extensive testing on rifle calibers as it has on handgun calibers?  That's another factor.  On the one hand, I've heard rifle calibers -- even jacketed rounds -- immediately break up on impact with soft tissue, but on the other hand you see demonstrations of the same ammo going through like 6 walls and still having deadly velocity.  

I've also tried to conceal a rifle.  Did not work out too well  

[Guest]

 

1 hour ago, SansVarnic said:

I shot a snub .38 once and that was the only and last time, ~snip~

Is it really that bad? I was considering a .38 as they’re more cost efficient than .357. Most low cost 38 are snub nose. 

I don’t have fingers resembling highlighters as some older men I know, so idk if your hand size was really all that. 

I only shot a 4” 357 and it was a dream. 38 or 357 went well. That’s a lot of weight to cut off, but I hardly felt any recoil. 

 

I think rock island armoury or something makes $200 revolvers but if I’m conceal carrying, idk how comfortable it’d be to have anything bigger than a snub nose. 

49 minutes ago, Rybo said:

The ammo on the Five Seven is a bit on the pricey side, and so is the gun itself, sadly.

Yeah, the guy I know that has one said he bought in bulk at gun shows so he’s super stocked. 

49 minutes ago, Rybo said:

  And has the FBI even done extensive testing on rifle calibers as it has on handgun calibers? 

I don’t know if they did. I couldn’t find one. 

49 minutes ago, Rybo said:

That's another factor.  On the one hand, I've heard rifle calibers -- even jacketed rounds -- immediately break up on impact with soft tissue, 

 

I saw someone shoot ballistic jel with a 5.7. It dumped almost all of its energy upon impact leaving a huge crater. The tiny shrapnel went really deep. 

I was researching 5.56/.223 the other day and saw that some shootings were committed with fn 5.7s but didn’t look at that data. 

49 minutes ago, Rybo said:

I've also tried to conceal a rifle.  Did not work out too well  

Haha. I meant like some places let you open carry or something. 

It might make you a target to have a rifle in the open, but, idk... personally, I wouldn’t mess with anyone carrying a rifle. I also have no reason to acquire your possessions nor your rifle. 

[SansVarnic]

2 minutes ago, fpo said:

Is it really that bad?

Unfortunately yes for me, I shot it once and the revolver almost flew out of my hand because the handle was small. Scared the crap out of me.