Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Delicieuxz

Epic aim to make their UE 5 demo run at 60 FPS on consoles + Is the PS 5 demo ouperformed by a mid-tier PC?

Recommended Posts

Posted · Original PosterOP

It's reported that Epic have said the UE 5 PS 5 demo which was shown on a PS 5 runs better on a current mid-tier desktop PC:


Epic Games Reveals That You Can Run the Unreal Engine 5 Tech Demo Pretty Well with a Modern GPU and SSD
Epic Games claims that Unreal Engine 5 Tech Demo can run with 40fps on RTX2080 notebook at 1440p

Quote

Well, it turns out that PC gamers have nothing to worry about, as usual. During a recent livestream, employees from Epic Games’s China division (via DSOGaming) revealed that the demo runs pretty well on modern hardware. More specifically, a notebook with an NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 mobile GPU and Samsung 970 EVO SSD was able to run the demo at 40 FPS. While some are claiming that the demo didn’t push the PS5’s SSD and storage speeds to their limits, the revelation puts a bit of a damper into Sweeney’s suggestions.

 

The given quote from an Epic Games China engineer is:

Quote

Our goal is that the graphic quality like this demo, we want to make it run 60FPS at next-gen consoles. But now we do not reach the goal. Now it is 30FPS. Our target is 60FPS, that is also why we can not release it now. And I can assure you that we can run this demo in our notebook, in editor , not cooked, it even can 40FPS. (Afterwards someone in BBS confirmed that the device is RTX2080 and 970EVO)

 

According to that, the UE5 demo gets 33% more FPS when running on a PC with an RTX 2080 Mobile GPU, where it experiences 40 FPS, than it does when running on the PS 5, where it experiences 30 FPS.

 

For reference, according to UserBenchmark, an RTX 2080 desktop card is about 17% more powerful than the The RTX 2080 Mobile, which is, per the name, for mobile devices. And a GTX 1080 has 2% more speed (the 2080 Mobile has an 11% higher average user benchmark score) than an RTX 2080 Mobile.

 

That suggests that the PS5's graphics power is about that of a GTX 1080.

 

 

The GTX 1080 is a mid-tier GPU right now. But when the RTX 30XX releases, which I suspect will be before the new consoles release as Nvidia will aim to prevent potential Nvidia GPU purchases from being lost due to people going for the new (AMD-powered) consoles first, the GTX 1080 will likely be in the low-end PC GPU performance category, with the large majority of Nvidia's gamer GPU lineup being more powerful: 2070S, 2080, 2080S, 2080 Ti, 3060, 3070, 3080, and 3080 Ti.

 

Elsewhere, it was reported Epic commented that their UE 5 demo needs at least an RTX 2070 Super to get smooth performance on a PC. An RTX 2070S is about 9% faster than a 2080 Mobile, which suggests that "smooth performance" in the UE 5 demo on a 2070S would be around 43.6% FPS.

 

 

Going off of that, unless there's some other performance-giving factor to the PS 5 yet to be disclosed (in which case, why would Epic not include it in their UE 5 demo?), it looks to me like the PS 5 is going to be comparable to a lower-mid-tier PC when it releases (assuming the 30XX series will be out at that time). And so, the PS 5 and new Xbox will likely be getting their fidelity by still running games at 30 FPS and perhaps also lower resolutions - that, or console games simply won't aspire to the level fidelity that was shown in the UE 5 demo, at least until more efficiencies in the consoles are discovered over their lifecycles.

 

And it seems that the UE 5 demo is impressive because it features new technology that does a lot more than currently-used technology does, while the PS 5's capabilities are still behind the powers of current PC hardware.

 

 

Update: There is further context to the claims given in the next several comments below. But the gist of it is that an EGS engineer said at least some of the UE 5 demo runs at 40 FPS on their notebook, and Tim clarified that the PS 5 version of the demo was running at running at 30 FPS and up with vsync on to get a constant 30 FPS.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP

Edit: Linus has clarified that his earlier claim didn't address Tim Sweeney's comment accurately and that Sweeney's claim has merit to it.

 

 

On a related note, in the latest WAN show, Linus showed a PC storage card, a Gigabyte Aorus Gen4, that has 8 TB of storage space and advertised transfer-speeds of 15 GB/s, blowing away the PS 5's reported 8 - 9 GB/s transfer speed. Linus also pointed-out that the Gigabyte Aorus wires directly to the CPU's PCIE bus, and so the PS 5's SSD isn't any more or less efficient.

 

Therefore, Tim's claim that the PS 5's Storage drive is "far beyond" anything that can be bought for any price on PC isn't true.

 

The Gigabyte Aorus adapter, without the storage drives to fill it, is listed for 150 USD / UK pounds:

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GC-4XM2G4-Adaptor-Advanced-Solution/dp/B082DZ8HLT/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082DZ8HLT

https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

 

But the PS5's storage performance is still pretty exceptional per regular PC storage performance standards.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
29 minutes ago, 3rrant said:

Fake news.

Tim Sweeney already specified on Twitter that the laptop in question was running A VIDEO of the demo running on a PS5. 

https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1261779320101572609?s=20

Not so. In that tweet, Tim was responding to the image shown without knowing what comments were made by Epic Games China. But the source of the 40 FPS claim is not the FPS of that video, but the comments of Epic Games China.

 

Tim was made aware of this in later tweets.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Delicieuxz said:

I don't think that can be right, because it it was a video then the FPS of the system wouldn't apply and there'd be no point in mentioning it.

You don't think. The boss of the company who made that demo says otherwise. Now c'mon please stop spreading misinformation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
2 hours ago, 3rrant said:

You don't think. The boss of the company who made that demo says otherwise. Now c'mon please stop spreading misinformation.

That's not a complete description of the situation.

 

During a livestream presentation, an Epic Games China engineer made some comments in Chinese which Tim wasn't aware of. When he was first questioned about them, he responded with:

 

But when pressed about it, he then said he doesn't actually know what was said by Epic Games China:

 
So, Tim didn't say otherwise. He took a guess at where people were getting the idea of 40 FPS on PC from based on a screenshot he was shown of the Epic Games China livestream, and it was then clarified to him that the idea's source was not the FPS of the video shown, but the comments of the EGC engineer who gave the presentation. But Tim also clarified that the PS 5 demo was running at 30 FPS and up, in order to get a consistent 30 FPS.
 
On Hardforum, someone has clarified that a more accurate translation of the EGC engineer's comment is that he said he can run the first scene in the UE 5 demo on his notebook at 40 FPS, and that it was also said that EGC are able to run the UE 5 demo in their editor at 40 FPS.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, SupaKomputa said:

Who cares? The laptop with the RTX 2080 probably cost way more than 500 bucks (assumed ps5 price).

It surely does. Though, a laptop isn't a cost-to-performance friendly way to game on PC. And a TV + console probably costs as much as a PC + monitor of at least similar performance.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Huh? The GTX 1080 and RTX 2080 are mid-tier cards? When the hell did mid-tier mean $500?


Local dickhead and VHS collector.

Volume / Normalized 100% / 100% (content loudness -0.1dB)

 

 

@handymanshandle x @pinksnowbirdie | Jake x Brendan :^

moo floof enthusiast, pm me moo rabbit pics

Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

On a related note, in the latest WAN show, Linus showed a PC PCIE storag card that has 8 TB of storage space and advertised transfer-speeds of 15 GB/s, blowing away the PS 5's reported 8 - 9 GB/s transfer speed. Linus also pointed-out that the Gigabyte Aorus wires directly to the CPU's PCIE bus, and so the PS 5's SSD isn't any more or less efficient.

The PS5 isn't built to get data in and out of the CPU, it is to get data to wherever it is needed, bypassing the CPU if needed. The CPU is basically a bottleneck. The storage hardware of which the SSD is only one part of will handle the compression and move it to where it is needed (e.g. GPU) without needing to visit the CPU first. For example, running Optane I get measurably better benchmark results for random reads running the same drive with a CPU OC to 5 GHz than at stock 4 GHz. That's with drive connected to the CPU lanes, and a small additional performance penalty if connected to chipset lanes. It will take time for software to make use of such hardware to take advantage of efficiencies it allows. The PC just doesn't have that hardware at all. We can brute force it, but it isn't the same.


Main system: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance Pro RGB 3200 4x16GB, Asus Strix 1080Ti, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, GameMax Silent, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Gaming system 2: Asus X299 TUF mark 2, 7920X, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance RGB 8x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair HX1000i, Gamemax Abyss, Samsung 960 Evo 512GB, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR system: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

It surely does. Though, a laptop isn't a cost-to-performance friendly way to game on PC. And a TV + console probably costs as much as a PC + monitor of at least similar performance.

Still you need at least $1000 to build a pc that can match that performance. That's only the box not the monitor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
23 minutes ago, handymanshandle said:

Huh? The GTX 1080 and RTX 2080 are mid-tier cards? When the hell did mid-tier mean $500?

I didn't say that the RTX 2080 is a mid-tier card, only that the GTX 1080 is. The RTX 2080 is around 17% more powerful than the GTX 1080.

 

Calling the GTX 1080 mid-tier at this point makes sense to me because, I think, most of Nvidia's current gamer lineup is more powerful than it: 2070, 2070S, 2080, 2080S, 2080 Ti.

 

15 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Still you need at least $1000 to build a pc that can match that performance. That's only the box not the monitor.

But a 65" 4K TV costs over $1,000, as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

I didn't say that the RTX 2080 is a mid-tier card. The RTX 2080 is around 17% more powerful than the GTX 1080.

1080 can't do ray tracing, what do you think the lighting comes from?

Quote

But a 65" 4K TV costs over $1,000, as well.

Playstation don't sell you the tv. You can plug it in a $100 monitor if you want to.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
16 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

1080 can't do ray tracing, what do you think the lighting comes from?

 The PS 5 demo didn't use ray-tracing, but Lumen, Epic's new global illumination system.

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

On a related note, in the latest WAN show, Linus showed a PC PCIE storag card that has 8 TB of storage space and advertised transfer-speeds of 15 GB/s, blowing away the PS 5's reported 8 - 9 GB/s transfer speed. Linus also pointed-out that the Gigabyte Aorus wires directly to the CPU's PCIE bus, and so the PS 5's SSD isn't any more or less efficient.

It issue is not the raw data rate of the PCIe device but the other latencies that the system introduces. If you are loading data on demand from the SSD into the GPU you want to do this as fast as possible otherwise you have large frame stuttring.

On (ANY) pc when you load game data from your SSD it goes

User- (game code) -> KERNAL -> SSD ....... -> KERNAL -> RAM ---> KERNAL --> user-space game code ... decompress -> user-space GPU driver (dx12.dll) -> Kernel -> Ram -> Kernel (set VT-d tables) -> GPU (load from ram) -> RAM -> GPU (inform cpu that data is here) -> KERNAL -> user-sapce game (use data for rendering) -> user-space gpu driver -> KERNA -> GPU
 
This is the simplest pathway, in most cases there are a few more steps in there.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, SupaKomputa said:

Who cares? The laptop with the RTX 2080 probably cost way more than 500 bucks (assumed ps5 price).

Let's not forget that consoles are sold at a loss, something to keep in mind.


.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Delicieuxz said:

On a related note, in the latest WAN show, Linus showed a PC storage card, a Gigabyte Aorus Gen4, that has 8 TB of storage space and advertised transfer-speeds of 15 GB/s, blowing away the PS 5's reported 8 - 9 GB/s transfer speed. Linus also pointed-out that the Gigabyte Aorus wires directly to the CPU's PCIE bus, and so the PS 5's SSD isn't any more or less efficient.

 

Therefore, Tim's claim that the PS 5's Storage drive is "far beyond" anything that can be bought for any price on PC isn't true.

 

The Gigabyte Aorus adapter, without the storage drives to fill it, is listed for 150 USD / UK pounds:

https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GC-4XM2G4-Adaptor-Advanced-Solution/dp/B082DZ8HLT/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082DZ8HLT

https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

 

But the PS5's storage performance is still pretty exceptional per regular PC storage performance standards.

He was not talking about the speed of which data moves he was talking about the throughput there is no ssd that matches the  throughput of the ps5 right now

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

 The PS 5 demo didn't use ray-tracing, but Lumen, Epic's new global illumination system.

JTFCoaPS, Lumen is an implementation of ray tracing. And 30 FPS minimum, depending on 0.1 or 1 percent lows with V Sync is significantly higher in performance than a 1080.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, ravenshrike said:

JTFCoaPS, Lumen is an implementation of ray tracing. And 30 FPS minimum, depending on 0.1 or 1 percent lows with V Sync is significantly higher in performance than a 1080.

If I've understood this correctly, Lumen and Nvidia's ray-tracing are both methods of global illumination, but Lumen combines a bunch of techniques (including some ray-tracing) to give global illumination that is much less resource-intensive without needing ray-tracing hardware.

 

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-unreal-engine-5-playstation-5-tech-demo-analysis

 

"Lumen uses ray tracing to solve indirect lighting, but not triangle ray tracing," explains Daniel Wright, technical director of graphics at Epic. "Lumen traces rays against a scene representation consisting of signed distance fields, voxels and height fields. As a result, it requires no special ray tracing hardware."

 

"Lumen uses a combination of techniques then: to cover bounce lighting from larger objects and surfaces, it does not trace triangles, but uses voxels instead, which are boxy representations of the scene's geometry. For medium-sized objects Lumen then traces against signed distance fields which are best described as another slightly simplified version of the scene geometry. And finally, the smallest details in the scene are traced in screen-space, much like the screen-space global illumination we saw demoed in Gears of War 5 on Xbox Series X. By utilising varying levels of detail for object size and utilising screen-space information for the most complex smaller detail, Lumen saves on GPU time when compared to hardware triangle ray tracing."

 

Given that the PS 5 demo isn't using ray-tracing hardware, its performance should be comparable to Nvidia GPUs without RT cores.

 

I'm not claiming my comparison to a GTX 1080 to be perfect, or maybe even close, but going by the reported 2080 Mobile performance, it sounds to me like a 1080 is about the performance it has. Or, maybe Lumen uses the 2080 Mobile's RT cores even though it doesn't need them. If that's the case, that could change how the PS 5's performance compares considerably.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And after all that's said and done, a good modern gaming PC will still clearly outperform the console...

 

Careful look at wording and legalese reveals that they (Sweeney, EGS, Sony) never made the direct claim of PS5 outperforming a gaming PCs.

 

Sony and MS, I know your old tricks. I see through your manipulative bullshit marketing.


Awareness is key. Never enough, even in the face of futility. Speak the truth as if you may never get to say it again. This world is full of ugly. Change it they say. The only way is to reveal the ugly. To change the truth you must first acknowledge it. Never pretend it isn't there. Never bend the knee.

 

Please quote my post in your reply, so that I will be notified and can respond to it. Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, as a pc gamer myself, even if this is not true and consoles have gained the upper hand in graphics, I'm still pretty happy. Technological advancements are always a good thing in my book, and competition is always a good thing for the consumer 


 

Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Same Old, same ol'.

 

Whenever a new console hits the market, they are optimized enough to "beat" a similarly priced PC, if you just factor in gaming and ignore all the other things a PC can do.

And about a year later, it breaks even,... then we get another 6-7 years of constant console bashing due to being bad value for the performance.

 

We all seen that, and we will all see it again (and again and again probably).

 

The good thing about a new console generation is usually that PCs are not bottle necked for a few years, which in turn pushes NVidia to make better GPUs for a while. 😉

Over the past years graphics have mostly been stagnant, due to games having to keep kind of parity with consoles,... so they made the PC graphics look just as bad.

 

So, just ignoring the usual console vs PC bashing,... as a PC gamer, I can finally look forward to getting prettier games for a while, so that makes me happy. Since I am using the PC for so many other tasks anyways, I won't ever exchange it for a console tho. But I may add a console either way, because,... well... why not. Just 500 bucks and you don't have to depend on PC Bluetooth and streaming for the couch experience for a while.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

 

Calling the GTX 1080 mid-tier at this point makes sense to me because, I think, most of Nvidia's current gamer lineup is more powerful than it: 2070, 2070S, 2080, 2080S, 2080 Ti.

I don't think the number of GPUs performing better matters for the mid-tier definition, certainly not as much as pricing. An "entry level PC" won't suddenly cost $2,000 because Nvidia decides to release more GPUs. 

Hence, the question is how much will 1080 like performance cost as those cards come out. 

 

6 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

JTFCoaPS, Lumen is an implementation of ray tracing. And 30 FPS minimum, depending on 0.1 or 1 percent lows with V Sync is significantly higher in performance than a 1080.

PS5 is using AMD graphics, so whether it is some form of ray tracing or not is inconsequential: it is not using Nvidias "RTX cores", so the point of the 1080 not having them is moot. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

For some reason the stream got deleted. Here's a fragment: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ZV411d7Rc


Specs: Motherboard: Asus X470-PLUS TUF gaming (Yes I know it's poor but I wasn't informed) RAM: Corsair VENGEANCE® LPX DDR4 3200Mhz CL16-18-18-36 2x8GB

            CPU: Ryzen 7 2700X @ 4.2Ghz          Case: Antec P8     PSU: G.Storm GS850                        Cooler: Antec K240 with two Noctura Industrial PPC 3000 PWM

            Drives: Samsung 970 EVO plus 250GB, Micron 1100 2TB, Seagate ST4000DM000/1F2168 GPU: EVGA RTX 2080 ti Black edition @ 2Ghz

                                                                                                                             

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, williamcll said:

For some reason the stream got deleted. Here's a fragment: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ZV411d7Rc

Because it was not supposed to be released and it created this whole "the demo is running better on a laptop" discussion when it's not actually running on it.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×