corona virus

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Cora_Lie said:

Nope... The prisoners in chinese prisons are put to contribution and they are manufacturing masks round the clock.

 

Why would they buy the mask from the US when they can make them themselves for free?

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3048249/china-coronavirus-hong-kong-prisoners-work

We get our masks from China

[Deli]

Just now, Cora_Lie said:

Nope... The prisoners in chinese prisons are put to contribution and they are manufacturing masks round the clock.

 

Why would they buy the mask from the US when they can make them themselves for free?

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3048249/china-coronavirus-hong-kong-prisoners-work

China is using so many face masks now. They couldn't keep up with producing it themselves. China has just ordered 2 million face masks from Turkey, even though Turkey only produces 1.5 million piece a year. And China is the biggest face mask producer in the world.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Deli said:

China is using so many face masks now. They couldn't keep up with producing it themselves. China has just ordered 2 million face masks from Turkey, even though Turkey only produces 1.5 million piece a year. And China is the biggest face mask producer in the world.

I stand corrected ^o^

[dizmo]

3 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Who says the allies was the major contributor during the war?

 

The eastern front was allready falling before D-day happened. And the UK bought equipment from the US, while having the aircraft industry and oil supply to run it. 

 

Lets not also forget that while the UK itself did not have surplus troops after D-day. They still had the commonwealth forces. 

 

The war would certainly be a lot longer. Probably stretching into 1948 if you include Japan. 

I'm going to assume you meant the US; it's not rocket science, the casualty numbers are easily available online. Simply sort highest to lowest, and you'll see that the highest Allied country for both casualties and injured is the US.

 

Right, and if that wasn't available? Or if the US didn't kick into high gear to supply as much as they could? Not to mention how would Japan have been taken out? You likely wouldn't have seen scientists defect, as the US provided a very safe haven overseas.

 

Sure, Commonwealth forces. If you include the UK, their combined forces were still almost as much as the US contributed; the US lost significantly more during the battle.

 

Taking these into account the war would have been significantly longer. If Hitler had been able to focus on GB, then perhaps he wouldn't have turned on Russia, and really, that's the only reason the Axis lost. We'd also likely have seen devastating weapons, like atomic bombs coming out of Germany before we ever saw them in Allied hands, and that too, would have turned the tide of the conflict. Not to mention the South Pacific theater. If you cut the number of deployed units in half, I'm not sure how you figure it'd only take 50% longer, especially taking into account the specific events the US had their hand in that really changed the course of the war.

[Canoe]

2 hours ago, Tony Tony Chopper said:

 

We will be out of masks soon cos China is buying them all, they need all the supplies they can get to keep this under control.

News report that China approached India to buy masks, and India promptly put a ban in place barring export of such supplies.

[Letgomyleghoe]

Just now, Canoe said:

News report that China approached India to buy masks, and India promptly put a ban in place barring export of such supplies.

Damn, maybe people should have just bought re-usable respirators especially since your making a bunch of biohazard trash each time you throw out a mask.

[Canoe]

Newer numbers.

Some numbers, like for Chinese provinces, are lagging due to Johns Hoppkins CSSE not keeping their spreadsheet up to date with their dashboard.

So, not a valid snapshot, but useful as an overview.

 

 

 

 

***

 

On 2/2/2020 at 2:27 AM, scuff gang said:

Damn, maybe people should have just bought re-usable respirators especially since your making a bunch of biohazard trash each time you throw out a mask.

Masks are only marginally helpful in avoiding getting infected. Cannot be relied upon for protection.

They are useful in minimizing the infected from expelling infected dropplets.

 

UPDATE

NOTE:

Quote

Dr. Mark Loeb, an infectious disease specialist at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, said a study during an outbreak of the SARS coronavirus found that any type of protection — whether a mask or a respirator — reduced the risk of infections in health care workers by about 85 percent.

 

Respirator filters need replacing too. With the right filter, respirators are effective, IF the fit is correct. Most people are not trained on how to wear a respirator such that it has a seal to their face. The leaks have less resistance to airflow than through the respirator's filter(s), so they will still be breathing in droplets.

[GoldenLag]

54 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Simply sort highest to lowest, and you'll see that the highest Allied country for both casualties and injured is the US.

Indeed. If you count the Soviet union out of the allies. Soviet Union being arguably the biggest contributor to the war effort. 

54 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Right, and if that wasn't available? Or if the US didn't kick into high gear to supply as much as they could?

Even before production kicked into high gear, there was allready deals where the UK bought equipment and ships from the US. And like ww1, war is lucrative business. 

 

54 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You likely wouldn't have seen scientists defect, as the US provided a very safe haven overseas.

That happened way before the war started. And regardless of the status of the US in the wareffort, they would still have a status as a safe heaven.

54 minutes ago, dizmo said:

If Hitler had been able to focus on GB, then perhaps he wouldn't have turned on Russia

Actually, they turned to Russia to get the resources and oil to force a peace deal with the UK. German aircraft industry and fuel situation was not able to have a continued effort over the UK to force a surrender. 

 

Russia was assumed to be a short campaign afterall. 

54 minutes ago, dizmo said:

like atomic bombs coming out of Germany before we ever saw them in Allied hands

Cancelled in 1942 iirc as its was in such early stages that a bomb would be many, many years away. Keep in mind how much manufacturing a resources is needed to create a single bomb. Nukes were never going to be a reality for germany. 

54 minutes ago, dizmo said:

I'm not sure how you figure it'd only take 50% longer, especially taking into account the specific events the US had their hand in that really changed the course of the war

For the US not to get involved, the Philepines would need to be untouched. Leaving Malaysia and the indies left to be reqonuered. 

 

China is at a standstill and with a the Soviet Union turning around after defeating germany at some point (1946/47) Mainland China would be retaken. That leaves Japan open for airraids and convoy raiding. At that point its a matter of time before a peacedeal would be made. As for the Islands down south, they would be retaken by British forces once the Royal Navy is free. 

 

 

It wouldnt end like we know it today, but it would end, and not in axis Victory. 

[Canoe]

Surprisingly, a sturdy cotton bandana works rather well.

• Not the small and thin touristy ones, but those of a good solid cotton.
• Oversize from what you'd think, folded over diagonally.
• Over your nose and hanging down, a la Stagecoach-robber.
• The material thickness and the two layers serve as a fibre maze that droplets (and fine dust) have trouble getting through.
• For fine dust down to 0.5 u, I found the bandana significantly more effective than any of the surgical masks I've tried.
• Likely due to how the material fits to one's face so well, over the nose, across the face and around the neck, all the way around to where you tie the knot; and, from the neck it comes down your shoulder to your chest, maintaining good contact all the way.
• You have to wash it, to kill/remove whatever it's caught while you wore it.
• And wash your hands immediately after removing it.
• Or after using your hands to adjust it while you're out and about. Alcohol gels for on the go.
• Works for beards, where that's an issue with surgical masks.

 

Here's an example of the cloth, tied around neck, but pulled down, ready to pull up.

 

***

 

Of more immediate concern to those in the U.S., should be this year's flu season.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-01-31/there-s-another-virus-stalking-the-u-s-and-it-s-called-the-flu

• The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that more than 19 million Americans have fallen ill with the flu so far this season, including 180,000 who ended up in the hospital. About 10,000 Americans have died, including more than 60 children.

***

 

TRANSMISSION

 

The most effective defence is the same one for just about any flu.

2019-nCov is spread (transferred) person to person by:

• Direct Contact transmission
• Droplet transmission
• Indirect Contact transmission (Frequent-Touch Surfaces)
• Variably: suspected/assumed/rare: fecal transmission

No reports of any Vectors (like mosquitoes for West Nile).

 

For the public, standard flu precautions, applicable to corona viruses.

• Wash hands with soap & water before eating or touching mouth, nose or eyes.
• Wash them frequently throughout the day.
  • Wash hands upon arriving at work.
  • Wash hands upon arriving back home.
• Clean contact surfaces and observe safe food handling practices.
• Sneeze/cough into clean tissue, and immediately discard.
  • Sneeze/cough into your sleeve if necessary, NOT into open air.
• When soap & water is not available, use disinfectant alcohol gels to wet and wash hands.

[Bombastinator]

59 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

Damn, maybe people should have just bought re-usable respirators especially since your making a bunch of biohazard trash each time you throw out a mask.

Changing a filter does the same thing.   I’m wondering how big corona viruses are and if the one micron filtration on a HEPA filter will be enough to protect.

[Bombastinator]

51 minutes ago, Canoe said:

Masks are only marginally helpful in avoiding getting infected. Cannot be relied upon for protection.

They are useful in minimizing the infected from expelling infected dropplets.

 

Respirator filters need replacing too. With the right filter, respirators are effective, IF the fit is correct. Most people are not trained on how to wear a respirator such that it has a seal to their face. The leaks have less resistance to airflow than through the respirator's filter(s), so they will still be breathing in droplets.

I recognize those pink disks.  Theyre 1 micron 3m hepa filters rated for asbestos removal.  Are they sufficient?

[Canoe]

19 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I recognize those pink disks.  Theyre 1 micron 3m hepa filters rated for asbestos removal.  Are they sufficient?

Well, you can get N95, N99 or N100.

The ones I have on my kit right now look like the ones on the right, are not "HEPA", and are labelled NIOSH N100. I also have a set like the ones on the left, but I don't remember their rating.

I also had to get glasses with the "gas-mask" flat flexible arms, with D-rings that go over the ear. 

 

When I don't need very good protection for my eyes:

• I use a mask for casual use.
• For more demanding, for longer times or fine particles, I use a bandana as I find it more effective than the surgical mask.

You should look up the actually explanation of the different filter types. And what makes an effective filter and how they work. It's not what people intuitively think.

 

Note that these work by your own breathing. There is negative pressure inside the face cover when you breath in. You need to learn how to wear it with a proper seal. Better than that, is the powered filtered air with positive pressure, so any leaks end up as filtered air escaping, not unfiltered air sneaking in.

 

If you're really concerned, you can use a cheap vacuum HEPA filter, airflow from a computer fan that can actually build some static pressure, power it with a USB, duct its filtered air into a head cover so it has positive pressure. Hackaday has a recent thread on a filter and layout. Here's a possible head cover. YRMV... lol

 

 

[Bombastinator]

On 2/2/2020 at 3:48 AM, Canoe said:

Spoiler

 

Well, you can get N95, N99 or N100.

The ones I have on my kit right now look like the ones on the right, are not "HEPA", and are labelled NIOSH N100. I also have a set like the ones on the left, but I don't remember their rating.

I also had to get glasses with the "gas-mask" flat flexible arms, with D-rings that go over the ear. 

 

When I don't need very good protection for my eyes:

• I use a mask for casual use.
• For more demanding, for longer times or fine particles, I use a bandana as I find it more effective than the surgical mask.

You should look up the actually explanation of the different filter types. And what makes an effective filter and how they work. It's not what people intuitively think.

 

Note that these work by your own breathing. There is negative pressure inside the face cover when you breath in. You need to learn how to wear it with a proper seal. Better than that, is the powered filtered air with positive pressure, so any leaks end up as filtered air escaping, not unfiltered air sneaking in.

 

If you're really concerned, you can use a cheap vacuum HEPA filter, airflow from a computer fan that can actually build some static pressure, power it with a USB, duct its filtered air into a head cover so it has positive pressure. Hackaday has a recent thread on a filter and layout. Here's a possible head cover. YRMV... lol

 

 

I vaguely recall n100 being one micron.  The 3m website will likely have data.  Asbestos removal requires 1 micron filtration. I buy the pink ones because even though I don’t remove a lot of asbestos they’re hepa so they’re also good for allergies.

N I think is for niosh which may also have data.

Edited February 11, 2020 by LogicalDrm

[tech.guru]

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

almost 15000 cases now,

and very sad news. its been confirmed over 300 people have died.

 

this is more than double the amount just a few days ago. this disease is spreading fast.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, tech.guru said:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

almost 15000 cases now,

and very sad news. its been confirmed over 300 people have died.

 

this is more than double the amount just a few days ago. this disease is spreading fast.

Holy c*** !!!  It has reached India... It's going to be a disaster there with the health care situation, the promiscuity and the way of life they have...

[PhantomJaguarr]

First case reported on the east coast in Massachusetts. Seems my state is getting the most cases and the nearly 200 citizens that arrived here from Wuhan need to be quarantined for 14 days now instead of just 3. Virus has a long incubation period. 

[williamcll]

On 2/1/2020 at 10:22 PM, Canoe said:

 

Spoiler

 

Those two points of yours do not add up.

Go to the CDC site and check out what's necessary for Home Care to prevent Transfer of 2019-nCoV. Sending infected people home to live with others in typically small/close living spaces, is almost sure to Transfer to the rest of the household.

 

It's been more than five days since the more strict shutdown/quarantine has taken place. For infections in January, the incubation period is believed to be 5.2 days. Yet Confirmed cases continue to climb, in Hubei and the combined numbers for the rest of mainland China. Hubei is explainable due to the high number of Suspected infected who are at home, plus those turned away - there's a backlog in Hubei. But the rest of the provinces, at least collectively, aren't showing any meaningful Recovered (and thankfully only 10 Deaths).

 

Here's Confirmed Cases for January 21 through to 31, plus interim numbers for February 1st.

 

Source: 2019-nCoV Global Cases by Johns Hopkins CSSE, with their data from: WHO, CDC, ECDC, NHC and DXY.

 

Multiple reports that the seven Wuhan hospitals can't keep up, turning people away, sending people home, restricting the number of tests.

• They're adding 1,000 beds and then another 1,300 beds.
• That might handle the Severe cases, once all are detected. Any extra beds can fill with simple ARI for treatment and isolation.
• It won't magically be able to treat all that need treatment. Not even isolate those with more than mild symptoms who are higher transfer risks for Droplet, Direct and Indirect Transmission.

 

•  

 

 

I don't think the ones sent back home are the Cornoa infected patients, but rather with common flu strains.

 

Also yeah the hospitals are overloaded, hence that's why there is another one being built after the current prefab one.

Edited February 11, 2020 by LogicalDrm

[Deli]

On 2/2/2020 at 2:49 AM, Canoe said:

Spoiler

 

Surprisingly, a sturdy cotton bandana works rather well.

• Not the small and thin touristy ones, but those of a good solid cotton.
• Oversize from what you'd think, folded over diagonally.
• Over your nose and hanging down, a la Stagecoach-robber.
• The material thickness and the two layers serve as a fibre maze that droplets (and fine dust) have trouble getting through.
• For fine dust down to 0.5 u, I found the bandana significantly more effective than any of the surgical masks I've tried.
• Likely due to how the material fits to one's face so well, over the nose, across the face and around the neck, all the way around to where you tie the knot; and, from the neck it comes down your shoulder to your chest, maintaining good contact all the way.
• You have to wash it, to kill/remove whatever it's caught while you wore it.
• And wash your hands immediately after removing it.
• Or after using your hands to adjust it while you're out and about. Alcohol gels for on the go.
• Works for beards, where that's an issue with surgical masks.

 

Here's an example of the cloth, tied around neck, but pulled down, ready to pull up.

 

 

If bandana is effective. A Buff should be good as well.

 

On 2/2/2020 at 4:20 AM, tech.guru said:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

 

almost 15000 cases now,

and very sad news. its been confirmed over 300 people have died.

 

this is more than double the amount just a few days ago. this disease is spreading fast.

It's also possible hospitals are overwhelmed. The number of tests for all the patients overload the system. The dramatic increase of confirmed cases is just the result of more tests have been completed.

[Canoe]

39 minutes ago, williamcll said:

I don't think the ones sent back home are the Cornoa infected patients, but rather with common flu strains.

 

Also yeah the hospitals are overloaded, hence that's why there is another one being built after the current prefab one.

Except as already noted:

• Reports are thousands are being sent home without being tested and without being seen. Do they have 2019-nCoV, or a flu, or ?
• First under way, 1,000 beds, second to come, 1,300 beds.

 

[Bombastinator]

19 minutes ago, Deli said:

If bandana is effective. A Buff should be good as well.

 

 

 

Gaming site.  “Buff” may be the wrong word

 

you mean like a shower loofah?  I don’t think that will do much.

[Deli]

3 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

Gaming site.  “Buff” may be the wrong word

 

you mean like a shower loofah?  I don’t think that will do much.

 

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Deli said:

 

I’d call that a sock scarf or a tube scarf.  Probably a bunch of names for such a thing.

[Deli]

6 minutes ago, Canoe said:

Except as already noted:

• Reports are thousands are being sent home without being tested and without being seen. Do they have 2019-nCoV, or a flu, or ?
• First under way, 1,000 beds, second to come, 1,300 beds.

 

Extra 2300 beds. Is it enough?

[Canoe]

2 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

I vaguely recall n100 being one micron.  The 3m website will likely have data.  Asbestos removal requires 1 micron filtration. I buy the pink ones because even though I don’t remove a lot of asbestos they’re hepa so they’re also good for allergies.

N I think is for niosh which may also have data.

You need to read up on how particle and droplet filtration works. It's not like there's a magic screen that prevents particles of a given size. It's NOT what you'd think. N is for non-oil particle filtration. Stop guessing: go read.

[Deli]

4 minutes ago, Bombastinator said:

I’d call that a sock scarf or a tube scarf.  Probably a bunch of names for such a thing.

In the hiking and mountaineering communities. Everyone calls this a buff. I know it's a brand name. Like Kleenex you mean tissue.