AirPower is dead

[DrMacintosh]

4 minutes ago, mr moose said:

All the phones one the right were released after the iPhone and all the phones on the left were released before. 

From wildly different time frames. It also uses an iPhone 4s (released in 2011) as its unit of comparison while claiming to be from 2007. For that alone the image is not serious. 

 

The original picture

 

Uses phones with roughly equal feature sets from sub 2007 and those roughly after 2008. 

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

For being dead, this thread is sure alive.

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

To believe you, I do need to see a peer reviewed article. Because if a court ruling wasn't enough to settle the argument that major players in the smartphone industry copied Apple's design language then I don't know what is. 

 

Major claims require major evidence. Your claim that Apple has only popularized the smartphone is a major claim and I expect you to defend it. 

 

Well, you believe whatever you want.  I have no need or desire to stick my head in the sand.  There is long standing evidence that these designs were a thing before apple and a thing after,  that means the whole industry was gravitating v toward that design whether you like it or not.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

From wildly different time frames. It also uses an iPhone 4s (released in 2011) as its unit of comparison. For that alone the image is not serious. 

 

The original picture

 

Uses phones with roughly equal feature sets from sub 2007 and those roughly after 2008. 

 

 

All the phones on the left were released before 2007 (or at the very least shown to be a real design) all the phones on the right were released after the iphone.  I don't give a fuck how you try to dismiss it,  you are putting your head in the sand.

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Wow, yeah thats hilarious, people think a company can copyright a rectangular shaped phone with a button in a certain placement? That is just how well Apple's marketing works LOL.

 

That's why apple won major awards for their marketing,  this thread is a perfect example of how good it was.

[DrMacintosh]

3 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I don't give a fuck how you try to dismiss it,  you are putting your head in the sand.

And I don't care at all. At the end of the day public opinion is that Apple pushed the smartphone market to become what it is today. How that occurred, either through just "marketing" as you claim, or actual products that lead the industry is irrelevant. You and a handful of others believing otherwise is unfortunate, but of no real significance. 

 

You believe you're right and I believe that I'm right. Nobody was ever going to change anyones views. 

[suicidalfranco]

16 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

I don't think you know what cherry picking it. What you did there was lie. 

 

That's not selectively picking, that's fabrication. 

how is that lying?

on the left:

at&t 8525 released in 2006

htc p3600 released in 2006

samsung f700 february 2007

nokia n95 in 2006

and finally the only one who shouldn't be there, samsung s5780 wave in 2011

 

on the right:

nokia 2700 in 2009

samsung t479 in 2010

nokia x2-01 in 2010

samsung e1080t in 2009

and another phone that shouldn't be on this side Samsung SGH-T809 in 2005

[Commodus]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

Yes, absolutely,  look at the history of phones, in fact if you look at the way technology evolves across all fields, you can see that no one company or inventor has ever redefined anything single handedly.  There were plenty of phones similar to the iphone before the iphone, and there were plenty of keyboard style phones after.  All this means is that the rectangle touch screen smartphone is an evolution of design across time and manufacturers.  And as I said before my opinion is that apples contribution to the smart phone of today was making it popular.

I don't doubt that something like that would have come about eventually (albeit years later), but no, there were not "plenty of phones similar to the iPhone" beforehand.  There's literally no evidence to support that.  A pen-dependent Windows Mobile phone isn't even in the same ballpark, nor is a basic feature phone like the Prada.

[suicidalfranco]

10 minutes ago, Commodus said:

nor is a basic feature phone like the Prada

moving the goal post

 

and in comparison the OG iPhone lacked more features than a standard feature phone of the time

[DrMacintosh]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

and in comparison the OG iPhone lacked more features than a standard feature phone of the time

Not really. Web browser, music player, and a phone. All of those things it did better than anything else on the market at the time. 

[mr moose]

9 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

And I don't care at all. At the end of the day public opinion is that Apple pushed the smartphone market to become what it is today. How that occurred, either through just "marketing" as you claim, or actual products that lead the industry is irrelevant. You and a handful of others believing otherwise is unfortunate, but of no real significance. 

 

You believe you're right and I believe that I'm right. Nobody was ever going to change anyones views. 

 

You have to cherry pick images to prove a point, outright dismiss facts as lies to defend it,  you refuse to accept the way technology evolves even though the internet is basically a library of the evolution of every tech device there is. Your adherence to the idea that apple somehow has gone outside of the norm and been a crucial player in the development of a product to the exclusion of all other documented examples is testimony to their marketing expertise.

 

You are right about one thing,  me as an internet nobody is no match for apples marketing prowess over the years. 

 

 

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, mr moose said:

me as an internet nobody is no match for apples marketing prowess over the years.

Yep, and lets leave it at that. 

[mr moose]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Yep, and lets leave it at that. 

You say that like you think you aren't an internet nobody.

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, mr moose said:

You say that like you think you aren't an internet nobody.

Meh, I am jut an internet nobody. 

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, DrMacintosh said:

Not really. Web browser, music player, and a phone. All of those things it did better than anything else on the market at the time. 

unlike what @Commudus believes, phones were capable of browsing the full web and not just wap sites like he claims. and unlike the iPhone, downloading stuff from was as easy as doing it on a PC

Music players, hardly anyone got it wrong considering the competition before the iPhone was Sony with their Walkman series of devices and Nokia with the XpressMusic line. A phone... must be grasping for straws with this one

[mr moose]

5 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

unlike what @Commudus believes, phones were capable of browsing the full web and not just wap sites like he claims. and unlike the iPhone, downloading stuff from was as easy as doing it on a PC

Music players, hardly anyone got it wrong considering the competition before the iPhone was Sony with their Walkman series of devices and Nokia with the XpressMusic line. A phone... must be grasping for straws with this one

 

Not to mention that windows CE/pocket PC was brilliant in all of these as far as features go.   Hell, I was an Ipaq user before the iphone.

[Drak3]

37 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

That's why apple won major awards for their marketing,  this thread is a perfect example of how good it was.

It's more accurate to say how bad everyone else's was (or to be totally accurate, how little they had it pushed to consumer markets).

[Commodus]

24 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

moving the goal post

 

and in comparison the OG iPhone lacked more features than a standard feature phone of the time

Not at all.

 

The whole point is that the iPhone combined key smartphone features of the era (arguably more, since it had a modern desktop-grade browser and sophisticated media playback) with the first genuinely intuitive touchscreen phone interface.  Yeah, it didn't have 3G, GPS or an app store, but it was still a big leap in terms of capability in key areas.  And the fact remains that every single rival scrambled to compete with it, because they knew that whatever advantages they had wouldn't last long.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

It's more accurate to say how bad everyone else's was (or to be totally accurate, how little they had it pushed to consumer markets).

 

I don't know, I think credit where credit is due.

 

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, mr moose said:

 

Not to mention that windows CE/pocket PC was brilliant in all of these as far as features go.   Hell, I was an Ipaq user before the iphone.

i had an imate kjam and later a qtek 9000 years before the announcement of the iphone

 

but in the end i preferred symbian over windows mobile, and that's when i got myself a nokia 7710

great phone

[suicidalfranco]

2 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Not at all.

 

The whole point is that the iPhone combined key smartphone features of the era (arguably more, since it had a modern desktop-grade browser and sophisticated media playback) with the first genuinely intuitive touchscreen phone interface.  Yeah, it didn't have 3G, GPS or an app store, but it was still a big leap in terms of capability in key areas.  And the fact remains that every single rival scrambled to compete with it, because they knew that whatever advantages they had wouldn't last long.

>arguably more, since it had a modern desktop-grade browser and sophisticated media playback

features phones of the time didn't only access wap sites, they had full access to  the entire content of the web. And sophisticated media playback? the iPhone didn't even support half the codecs most phones had at the time, the iPod app only outstanding feature was coverflow when in flipped landscape, which, unless you decided to sit down and manually put a cover on your music collection in itunes cause for some reason itunes would mess up most metadata on tracks you first managed with windows media player. was pointless (eventually did it for my iPod, took me a whole month for the 3000+ track i had at the time)

 

> Yeah, it didn't have 3G, GPS or an app store

all things that were already present on other phones years before the iPhone

 

 

[Blade of Grass]

18 hours ago, parthm said:

imo apple just lied at the event that their engineers know how to do it and messed up big time lol. it was needed imo. theyre honestly responsible for a lot of bad decisions and the way that the market has shifted.

and what standards are they talking about? 

bendgate? butterfly keyboards? heating devices? weak display cables that dont work fo long? impure "sapphire" camera lens? 

 

they shouldnt falsely advertise or talk about products or services that they arent even going to release now and hold grand events for those. people seriously watched their event about how theyll probably have a game subscription service and news app and bs crap in some time that they wont tell us when and no cost either.

setting a really bad example for the market.

I mean, Apple released the news app and subscription service the same day of the event, so not sure exactly what you’re going on about with that. Honestly, if you watched the event at all I’m confused as to why you thing anything they talked about was B.S. They’ve announced when the credit card will come out (summer). They announced game titles that they’ll release for the subscription in fall. They announced some TV shows and movies, along with the actors and directors who are staring/directing in them, for the TV service. The only thing they didnt do was talk about pricing for the game service and TV service, or announce when the TV service would come out.

[Dabombinable]

5 hours ago, mr moose said:

and there were plenty of keyboard style phones after.

Still pissed that my Nokia E63 went through the wash.

[CarlBar]

6 hours ago, mr moose said:

Nope, I looked those up specifically,  had them on my NAS from a debate exactly the same from years ago.  All the phones one the right were released after the iPhone and all the phones on the left were released before. 

 

 

 

 

What they looked like is completely besides the point to the argument and you know it.

 

What matters is how it functions. Now i can't speak on that point, i went from a 2003 phone to an S9 in one leap last year so i never used or saw much of the intermediary phones on a level good enough to have an opinion there. For that matter i missed the transition period completely from an awareness standpoint.

 

At the end of the day following your twos arguments what you need to show me to convince me is a phone that was released to mass market, (i.e. not some tech demo or halo showoff piece), that had all of the features you commonly see in smartphones today that were pioneered in the early iphones. Namly, (to my understanding), a fully finger based touch interface with a high ease fo use with full web, media, phone, and near light tablet capabilities.

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

 

 

What they looked like is completely besides the point to the argument and you know it.

 

What matters is how it functions. Now i can't speak on that point, i went from a 2003 phone to an S9 in one leap last year so i never used or saw much of the intermediary phones on a level good enough to have an opinion there. For that matter i missed the transition period completely from an awareness standpoint.

Again you come into a discussion half way through and try to argue something different,  especially when the post I was responding to said " you only have to be objective to see that that the design language"  which is all about visual appearance and style.    So looks are not beside the point at all, in fact it was a core component of the discussion, the only other part that @DrMacintosh mentioned was the feature set, which someone else was addressing.

 

2 minutes ago, CarlBar said:

At the end of the day following your twos arguments what you need to show me to convince me is ...

Again, neither I nor @DrMacintosh need to show you anything.  The discussion is quite self evident and if you don't like it you can add your 2 cents, but don't expect me to change my opinions or stance to satisfy your grievance when it is only founded on half a conversation.