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Uttamattamakin

Windows 10 May Reserve Another 7GB For Updates.

7 minutes ago, 79wjd said:

Yeah, when hardware was expensive, higher dev costs made more sense. As hardware gets cheaper, high dev costs no longer make sense.

I understand that, but when you are a software company, which is by far the most widely used PC operating system, then maybe you should invest some money into optimizing it.

"It costs money" is to me not a valid excuse for doing a poor job. Again, imagine if Volkswagen used that excuse for poor miles per gallon results compared to their competitors.

"It costs a lot of money to make the engines more efficient".

 

And yes I understand that Microsoft makes money basically regardless of how well optimized Windows is. I can understand business decisions for how to allocate resources without having to agree with it. What I am saying here is that I wish Microsoft would take better care of Windows than they do.

 

As a consumer and user of their product, I don't really care how much money they make from something. What I care about is how good the product is. I am not here to argue how Microsoft can create a product I will buy with as little effort as possible. I am here to voice my opinion about how I think Microsoft should make the product better for me. I am not employed by Microsoft so I don't have any obligation to defend them. I am a user so I should express what I want.

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Just now, porina said:

My system work hours are 24/7. Where's the setting for that?

If you require your system on 24/7 then you can't do updates that require a restart,  get linux.

 

Or perhaps you do have time to update but its not always regular,  in which case you should be using enterprise.

 

99% of home users are just that, home users, they can turn off every night.  The point of forced updates on home is because home users are predominately the ones that don't update and are also the ones with a regular power cycle.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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4 minutes ago, WelshDdraig said:

 

Being the resident "techie" in my family - I can say this with a passion. Those laptops can go burn in a fire for all I care.
Yes - they are cheap and relatively small and lightweight, but the sacrifice way too much: 

Storage - emmc, way too low a capacity in current models, especially with updates getting larger and larger.
Lack of I/O (my mothers "laptop" has a single USB 2 type A and an HDMI out.
Some have no expandable storage - so the 32gb of emmc is all you get (minus cloud services).
Typically they have pretty bad CPU's (like low power Celeron and Pentiums)
Low RAM - Most ship with just 2GB of RAM, and that being extremely slow RAM that can't be upgraded.
The trackpad and keyboard are typically terrible.

If this feature from the upcoming Windows update kills of these types of laptops - I will gladly welcome this update with open arms.

 

I'm not too sure exactly who they are aimed at because I have yet to find a use case that actually makes them a legitimate option.  Also emmc is slow AF.  You may as well have an HDD in many of those units.


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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16 minutes ago, porina said:

My system work hours are 24/7. Where's the setting for that?

i ask this out of curiosity, not "bull shit you're lying"

 

but what is it that you do at home that requires your PC to be on 24/7 with no downtime to do a 1-2 minute (if that) restart?

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You can use a flashdisc too…. 

it is another investment but it should save the cheap p.c. 

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4 hours ago, mr moose said:

Isn't it ridiculous how there are so many people with technical issues on a forum of supposedly self proclaimed tech enthusiasts.  

sometimes even the biggest nerd needs help xD 


They/Them :) 

Nokia 7.2 | 128GB | Android

Laptop: HP EliteBook 9470m | Core i5 3437U | HD4000 | 16GB RAM | 500GB SSD | Windows 10

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21 minutes ago, Arika S said:

i ask this out of curiosity, not "bull shit you're lying"

 

but what is it that you do at home that requires your PC to be on 24/7 with no downtime to do a 1-2 minute (if that) restart?

Various processing tasks. In theory I could set auto-login and auto-resume, but without an elegant shutdown there is a chance of corruption and wasted time, in the order of CPU-days per system. This is more painful now with increasing electricity costs. Before anyone else says it, I don't want to mess with Linux either as that is a different set of problems.


Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Gigabyte GTX 1650, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, WD Blue 1TB, HP LP2475W 1200p wide gamut

Gaming system: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i7-8086k stock, Noctua D15, Corsair Vengeance LPX RGB 3000 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Fractal Edison 550W PSU, Corsair 600C, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, Acer Predator XB241YU 1440p 144Hz G-sync

Ryzen rig: Asrock B450 ITX, R5 3600, Noctua D9L, G.SKill TridentZ 3000C14 2x8GB, Gigabyte RTX 2070, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, WD Green 240GB SSD, LG OLED55B9PLA

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700T stock, Scythe Kozuti, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, Silverstone SG13, Samsung PM951 256GB, Crucial BX500 1TB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: Asus FX503VD, i5-7300HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 1050, Sandisk 256GB + 480GB SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-8086k, i3-8350k, i7-7920X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700T, i5-6600k, i3-6100, i7-5930k, i7-5820k, i7-5775C, i5-5675C, 2x i7-4590, i5-4570S, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, E5-2667, R7 3700X, R5 3600, R5 2600, R7 1700

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7 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

In my humble opinion this will make the 32GB inexpensive windows computer obsolete.

For a moment I actually had my Windows 10 Pro installed on a 32gb Intel Optane Memory for that super sweet NVMe performance and for the fun out of it... I thought well 32GB ought to be enough JUST for the windows and all else can be on the second SSD.

 

I was greatly mistaken when I saw my windows was getting alone to the 27GB margin already... Then there are the whole "windows.old" folder and all the extra useless junk that uses stupid amounts of disk space and you can't move it elsewhere.

 

Indeed If Microsoft keeps this up 120GB SSD for inexpensive mobile Windows machines will no longer be enough.


Workstation Rig:
CPU:  Intel Core i9 9900K @5.0ghz  |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 |~|  MOBO: Asus Z390M ROG Maximus XI GENE |~| RAM: 32gb 3333mhz CL15 G.Skill Trident Z RGB |~| GPU: nVidia TITAN V  |~| PSU: beQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 80Plus Platinum  |~| Boot: Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2X4TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Iron Wolf + 2X2TB SSD SanDisk Ultra |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Acer Predator X34 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
 
Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


HTPC / "Console of the house":

CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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6 hours ago, corrado33 said:

If you have an SSD you're unnecessarily killing it faster. :)

Exactly. Much faster. I got laptop from ebay 3 days ago. It had windows 10 on it. It did upgrade to 1809 version. Then i checked ssd life and i noticed it had written about 26 GB and read 17 GB from ssd in about an 2 hour maybe. That is damn too high. I do not do that much writes and reads on my ssd using my arch linux whole day!


Computer users fall into two groups:
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

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9 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Then there are the whole "windows.old" folder and all the extra useless junk that uses stupid amounts of disk space and you can't move it elsewhere.

windows.old is removable. you can go to disk cleanup and remove it from there. 


They/Them :) 

Nokia 7.2 | 128GB | Android

Laptop: HP EliteBook 9470m | Core i5 3437U | HD4000 | 16GB RAM | 500GB SSD | Windows 10

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Winodws was already taking too much of my disk with update files already ...


If you want to reply back to me or someone else USE THE QUOTE BUTTON!                                                      
Pascal laptops guide

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Just now, Castdeath97 said:

Winodws was already taking too much of my disk with update files already ...

It won't take more. It will use that reserve space

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7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Maybe now manufactures will stop making system with 32GB of storage, and put in 64GB instead allowing more storage.

But anyway, from my understanding on this, it can use external storage instead. Meaning, if you insert a microSD card (say), it will use that, instead of your main storage for update. (update: Doesn't look like, but with Storage Sense you can merge that microSD card with your system drive. So you still have 1 drive, but it will be larger.)

I can tell you now that it doesn't work on my windows tablet.. I couldn't update it, so put a 32GB card in, and it still won't update and says not enough space (after about 2 hours). I didn't use it much anyway, but still annoying.


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you, I may not see your post otherwise.

 

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Guess I'll throw my 32GB Windows 10 Tablet out the window since I couldn't even do regular updates with the space that is taking

Meanwhile my entire Kubuntu system files weight 9.8 GB lol including my programs


image.thumb.png.ece7a39cad573a0c34096bc876194706.png
 

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1 minute ago, paddy-stone said:

I can tell you now that it doesn't work on my windows tablet.. I couldn't update it, so put a 32GB card in, and it still won't update and says not enough space (after about 2 hours). I didn't use it much anyway, but still annoying.

I think GoodBytes said you could do a JBOD setup and it will work. 

However, this is an absolutely terrible idea. If you accidentally pull the SD card out, or it fails, it might corrupt things on your eMMC too. 

Performance will be horrible too. 

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4 minutes ago, paddy-stone said:

I can tell you now that it doesn't work on my windows tablet.. I couldn't update it, so put a 32GB card in, and it still won't update and says not enough space (after about 2 hours). I didn't use it much anyway, but still annoying.

That is because the way Windows see a 32GB card on a tablet isn't the same as it would do with a typical external USB storage, you need to create a vhd disk through disk manager, and create a service which mounts it every time, or mount it manually, I solved it in this way on my 32GB tablet 

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2 minutes ago, Lukyp said:

That is because the way Windows see a 32GB card on a tablet isn't the same as it would do with a typical external USB storage, you need to create a vhd disk through disk manager, and create a service which mounts it every time, or mount it manually, I solved it in this way on my 32GB tablet 

Ahh cool, I might give that a try, thanks... as I said I didn't use it much anyway, pretty much just had it sitting beside my bed so that if there was a problems with the server I could do it from there.

If I get it sorted I might give it to my great-niece, but it is SLOOOOW, so she might not want it, lol


Please quote my post, or put @paddy-stone if you want me to respond to you, I may not see your post otherwise.

 

Spoiler
  • PCs:-
  • AM4 1700 build https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/user/paddy.stone/saved/XyXyXL
  • ASUS x53e  - i7 2670QM / Sony BD writer x8 / Win 10, Elemetary OS, Ubuntu/ Samsung 830 SSD
  • Lenovo G50 - 8Gb RAM - Samsung 860 Evo 250GB SSD - DVD writer
  •  
  • Displays:-
  • Panasonic 55" 4k TV
  • LG 29" Ultrawide
  •  
  • Storage/NAS/Servers:-
  • Main Server - ASrock AB350M Pro 4 - AMD Athlon 200GE - 16GB DDR4 2133Mhz RAM - 240GB Crucial M500 SSD Boot Drive, running Windows 10, plex server - 4x 4TB Seagate Ironwolf HDDs.
  • Backup server - HP Proliant Gen 8 4 bay NAS running FreeNAS ZFS striped 3x3TiB WD reds
  • HP ProLiant G6 Server SE316M1 Twin Hex Core Intel Xeon E5645 2.40GHz 48GB RAM
  •  
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  • Xbox One S 500GB + 2TB HDD
  • PS4
  • Nvidia Shield TV
  • Xiaomi/Pocaphone F1 128GB 6GB RAM
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  • Lenovo k3 note
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  • Unused Hardware currently :-
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  • AMD phenom II 1055t / 8GB RAM / DVD writer
  • Zotac GTX 1060 6GB Amp! edition x2
  • Zotac GTX 1050 mini
  • Nvidia Shield K1 tablet

 

 

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30 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

windows.old is removable. you can go to disk cleanup and remove it from there. 

I mean, I'm perfectly aware it is, but you can not stop Windows from doing it in the first place.


Workstation Rig:
CPU:  Intel Core i9 9900K @5.0ghz  |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Dark Rock 4 |~|  MOBO: Asus Z390M ROG Maximus XI GENE |~| RAM: 32gb 3333mhz CL15 G.Skill Trident Z RGB |~| GPU: nVidia TITAN V  |~| PSU: beQuiet! Dark Power Pro 11 80Plus Platinum  |~| Boot: Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2X4TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Iron Wolf + 2X2TB SSD SanDisk Ultra |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Acer Predator X34 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
 
Personal Use Rig:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900 @4.75ghz |~| Cooling: beQuiet! Shadow Rock Slim |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z390M Gaming mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3400mhzCL15 Viper Steel |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition RTX 2080 Ti |~| PSU: beQuiet! Straight Power 11 80Plus Gold  |~|  Boot:  Intel 660p 2TB NVMe |~| Storage: 2x2TB SanDisk SSD Ultra 3D |~| Case: Cooler Master Case Pro 3 |~| Display: Viotek GN34CB 3440x1440p100hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.


HTPC / "Console of the house":

CPU: Intel Core i7 8700 @4.45ghz |~| Cooling: Cooler Master Hyper 212X |~| MOBO: Gigabyte Z370M D3H mATX|~| RAM: 16gb DDR4 3333mhzCL16 G.Skill Trident Z |~| GPU: nVidia Founders Edition GTX 1080 Ti |~| PSU: Corsair TX650M 80Plus Gold |~| Boot:  SSD WD Green M.2 2280 240GB |~| Storage: 1x3TB HDD 7200rpm Seagate Barracuda + SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB |~| Case: Fractal Design Meshify C Mini |~| Display: Toshiba UL7A 4K/60hz |~| OS: Windows 10 Pro.
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1 minute ago, Princess Cadence said:

I mean, I'm perfectly aware it is, but you can not stop Windows from doing it in the first place.

I'm confortable with it tbh, I think it is needed for recovering from unsuccessful updates, better than having an unusable system like when it happened on Win7, and after a month it would delete itself

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As someone with a $200 laptop w/ a 32gb C drive and >4 gigs remaining.

This sucks.

I feel compelled a little more each day to switch to Linux...


Desktop:

CPU: Ryzen 5 1600 @3.75* RAM: 2 by 8gb G.Skill Flare X 2400 @2666* GPU Strix GTX 1070 @1880-ish

Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 500gb; 2x 2tb Seagate Barracuda Drives; 1tb hdd (It died after 4 years :();

 

Laptop: (HP Stream 11-y010nr "Spent all my money on my Desktop" Edition)

CPU: Intel Celeron N3060 @160 BILLION hertz RAM: 400 BILLION bytes Samsung DDR3L @160 BILLION hertz 

GPUIntel HIGH DEFINITION Graphics @32 BILLION hertz

Storage: 32 TRILLION bytes of SOLID STATE emmc C drive with 64 TRILLION bytes of SOLID STATE microSD card D drive.

 

*Overclocked around 25% of the time... questionably stable.

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8 hours ago, Uttamattamakin said:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-windows-10-to-grab-7gb-of-your-storage-so-big-updates-dont-fail/

 

 

 

OK, if I was one of the people who bought one of the inexpensive windows machines with 32GB of Flash storage I would be very angry about this.  This is going to be really annoying.  It is better now that windows 10 more readily supports keeping files in the cloud and downloading them as needed while still keeping them visible in the file structure.  On a machine like that up to now 12-16 of the 32 GB was the OS.  Now 19-23 GB of the storage will be the OS.   Can one even install MS office, the one thing such devices have that chromebook doesn't, in what is left?  About one GB for anything else. 

 

In my humble opinion this will make the 32GB inexpensive windows computer obsolete.   

 

Which is very bad for a lot of people.  A lot of students are only able to afford a very cheap computer.  There are some things that just cannot be done on a computer belonging to a school or a library.  There are some things that just cannot be done on a phone.   Why not just give people the option of downloading the updates to a USB then installing it from there?  

As someone who knows someone with a 32gb machine. That hit garbage was already obsolete. Ended up giving them my old laptop because the thing was unusable and it only Windows chrome and Microsoft office. The fact that someone thought a 32gb Windows machine was a good idea is actually a joke. 

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8 minutes ago, Linker said:

As someone with a $200 laptop w/ a 32gb C drive and >4 gigs remaining.

This sucks.

I feel compelled a little more each day to switch to Linux...

If you don't have issues with space now, then you won't after.

If you have issues with space now, then you'll be fighting to make room in any case.

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2 hours ago, mr moose said:

If you require your system on 24/7 then you can't do updates that require a restart,  get linux.

 

Or perhaps you do have time to update but its not always regular,  in which case you should be using enterprise.

 

99% of home users are just that, home users, they can turn off every night.  The point of forced updates on home is because home users are predominately the ones that don't update and are also the ones with a regular power cycle.

Exactly. Its just like that guy I argued with a bit ago where his PC needed to be on 24/7 because he never saved anything and bitched that he lost time when it rebooted.

 

The needs of the many beat the needs of the few. I get people want updates but windows security was shit until they began forcing updates. Even then you can delay it and it will only force reboot once a month. If you cant find a 10min down period to update than you need  to rethink your setup.

1 hour ago, mate_mate91 said:

Exactly. Much faster. I got laptop from ebay 3 days ago. It had windows 10 on it. It did upgrade to 1809 version. Then i checked ssd life and i noticed it had written about 26 GB and read 17 GB from ssd in about an 2 hour maybe. That is damn too high. I do not do that much writes and reads on my ssd using my arch linux whole day!

Far from "much faster". 

 

Second gen SSD could stand 50gb write a day and it would  take 3 years for the NAND to fail. Modern SSDs can do multiple Petabytes of writes. It will not kill your SSD any faster.

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8 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

As someone who knows someone with a 32gb machine. That hit garbage was already obsolete. Ended up giving them my old laptop because the thing was unusable and it only Windows chrome and Microsoft office. The fact that someone thought a 32gb Windows machine was a good idea is actually a joke. 

One is better off going to a recycling center, get an laptop from there for $50 or so, get an 120-250GB SSD (especially now that they drop in price) and call it day.

Late Core 2 Duo with Windows 10, 4GB of RAM, and an SSD will fly especially compared to these low end systems, and you end up paying less, and might end up with a better display, and similar battery life, 13-14inch, and maybe a an entry level Nvidia/AMD GPU in it. And that is if you go with the Core 2 Duo... and not a 1st or 2nd gen Core i5, which obviously will be much faster, and better Intel integrated graphics, and so on. Worth a look at such center, is all I am saying.

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8 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

If you don't have issues with space now, then you won't after.

If you have issues with space now, then you'll be fighting to make room in any case.

I have issues with space on my C drive.

It just barely fits everything I need, and the 4gb goes down to as low as like 300mb during updates.

64 gb microsd card holds everything else.

I'll find a way if it becomes an issue, it just bothers me how bloaty windows is.


Desktop:

CPU: Ryzen 5 1600 @3.75* RAM: 2 by 8gb G.Skill Flare X 2400 @2666* GPU Strix GTX 1070 @1880-ish

Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 500gb; 2x 2tb Seagate Barracuda Drives; 1tb hdd (It died after 4 years :();

 

Laptop: (HP Stream 11-y010nr "Spent all my money on my Desktop" Edition)

CPU: Intel Celeron N3060 @160 BILLION hertz RAM: 400 BILLION bytes Samsung DDR3L @160 BILLION hertz 

GPUIntel HIGH DEFINITION Graphics @32 BILLION hertz

Storage: 32 TRILLION bytes of SOLID STATE emmc C drive with 64 TRILLION bytes of SOLID STATE microSD card D drive.

 

*Overclocked around 25% of the time... questionably stable.

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