iPhone Xs/Max bags the top ratings from DisplayMate, DxOMark, Anandtech for Display, Camera and Silicon

[D13H4RD]

4 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

The dxomark score. You just said a few comments back that falsely glorified their score when I never mentioned anything about it in the OP

......I'm done 

 

I never said you falsely glorified their score. I only asked for a bit more context. 

[Drak3]

51 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

You're turning into the person you hate by the second

They always have been that person.

[LAwLz]

17 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Misinformation. That's all my issue is. I mean seriously, look at charge gate and beauty gate. There are people still spreading that Apple put in a beauty mode that you can't turn off. I am not going to engage someone who makes a "Apple is shit" comments, but to people who actually brings up their issues, that I might see differently, in order for both of us to understand better on each other's perspective.

Well it's simple.

Chargegate is that the iPhones had an issue where they would fail to charge. It was fixed very recently in an update, but before that it was best to verify that your iPhones actually started charging when plugged in, rather than just plug it in and forget about it.

 

Beauty gate is that the new iPhone has a very aggressive denoise setting which makes photos taken with the front camera seem kind of blurry, and smoothes out things like wrinkles, and this can be not changed by the users.

 

17 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

But in reality, even for those people who seems legitimate, their blood starts boiling the moment I say anything good about Apple. Really, just take a look at this thread.

Really? I think I often say good things about Apple and I rarely if ever get bunch backlash from it. For example whenever I tell someone that the iPhone has a beast of a CPU, and a very, very powerful GPU people seem more impressed than mad. But I don't go "other phones are shit! Apple is the best so stop being a hater!" which I think is the way those people interpret your posts.

Maybe it is the way you present the information which rubs people the wrong way? Like in this thread where you took a quote out of context and pushed it to make the iPhone sound better than it is.

 

17 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I made the thread because I think it's significant. If you don't care, why bother clicking the post. Just go ahead with your day. I did not make any clickbaity title too. You chose to check it out for yourself you care. And that's also why I care.

I clicked because I wanted to read the thread. I was kind of disappointed when I discovered that the "top ratings" were mostly just within margin of error from their competitors, and the Anandtech quote regarding CPU performance was kind of misleading and taken out of context.

I think that you and I care for different reasons too. You care because it is Apple (by your own admission) and I care because I like phones.

 

17 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Wtf? So you're saying we should just quote manufacture numbers and never make threads about independent reviews? I remember you being alot more objective. And your 2 percent metric is from DxOmark weighted score, which to anyone who read the article knows is misleading at best. There are independant strong points in camera that the iPhone handles much better than the competitors. Same goes for the display and the processor which is not some mere 5 percent better than the competition. And I made a thread on all three of them together. I wouldn't have bothered if it was just one report. And no one is talking about the the research paper made by the university about the new iPhone screens 

 

Edit: Added the rest of my response. @RedRound2

 

No I am not saying that at all. What I am saying is that it seems very weird and hostile to me to preemptively make threads talking about how awesome the iPhone is, especially when it just barely edges out the competition in 2 out of the 3 links you used as sources.

If your intention is to avoid flamewars then I believe your actions are having the exact opposite effect.

 

If we aren't going to use the weighted score, what are we going to use? The iPhone Xs Max is certainly not the best in all categories if you use the individual scores. Actually, it's not even the best when using the weighted score.

And if your defense is that being let's say top 5 in three categories warrants dedicated threads then get ready for every single flagship phone released to get multiple threads created about them, with the sole intention of just boasting about how awesome company X or Y is.

 

17 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Wow. It wasn't taken out of context. Read the paragraph yourself, which I have had put in the OP, and you'll see that that particular sentence isn't a continuation or header of any. And by that logic, you're saying I should've quoted the entire 10 page review because anything taken out from there would be 'out of context'.

You literally took part of a sentence from Anandtech and put it at the top of your post.

The full quote you used later doesn't explain the situation either. Don't pretend to play dumb like you didn't know what you were doing. You chose that quote very carefully.

Look at how people are lashing out at that particular quote, saying Anandtech are idiots, then when I dug through the article, found the test and explained it everyone seemed to go "oh, okay that makes sense".

 

How come you didn't mention that the desktop processor they were comparing it against was only using one out of 28 cores, and had a much lower clock speed than regular desktop CPUs, as well as a far generations old architecture? Wasn't your goal to prevent misinformation? Because the way you present your information is extremely misleading. It makes me believe that you don't really care if information is right or wrong, as long as it makes Apple look good.

 

 

17 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Go ahead. The only thing you've got on me is that analog thing from headphone jack thread. I didn't know better then, as electronics is not my subject. I never really comment on anything else here. And there are plenty of replies that you just conveniently haven't gotten back in older threads too, just so you know. 

1) It's not electronics. It's basic physics and logic.

2) The problem isn't that you didn't know. The problem was that you pretended to know, and assumed that things were a certain way because it would make Apple look better. It seems to me like you don't listen to facts if they aren't positive towards Apple.

Maybe you do, but based on what I've seen in our conversations I don't think you do.

[wasab]

8 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

 

 In fact, it objectively is better than pretty much all LCD screens because Apple has always used the best ones. 

You are objectively wrong.

[wasab]

8 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

What is your point? Just because you too pictures of two old phones with their screen on does not in any capacity say how well it works under everyday use. While the iPhone 5s? You can find tones of YouTube videos where iPhone 5s is running perfectly fine with iOS 12, which can't be said for any of the other flagships

Other flagships do not run iOS

[Commodus]

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

1) I think Apple gets a bit more hate than other companies because Apple has quite a lot of rabid and fairly ignorant fanboys who praise their every move, as well as defend even the most horrible things Apple does. Just go back and look at the thread where the iPhone without headphone jack was revealed. There were quite a few clueless people who were unconditionally praising Apple. Hell, some of them were even saying how it was a good move because the 3.5mm headphone jack was analog, proudly putting their massive ignorance on display for everyone else to see.

That's fair to a degree.  I don't think they really represent the broader Apple fan base, but c'mon... I don't think the removal of the jack was the end of the world, but I'm not going to pretend like Apple was doing everyone a favour, either.

 

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

2) I think a lot of Apple fans feel like when Apple get hate it's "undeserved", but when other companies gets hate thrown their way it is "justified", and therefore they believe Apple gets more shit than others. Just look at the Note 7 exploding batteries for an example of this. That outrage was justified, right? How many devices do you think were actually affected by the exploding battery issue? It is estimated that about 2.5 million Note 7s were sold, and there were about 100 reports of exploding batteries.

That means that about 0.004% of devices actually exploded.

After just 35 reports Samsung issued a worldwide recall.

That's not really it.  It's more that Apple is both a very high-profile, high-volume company (and thus bound to get extra scrutiny) and, being on the opposite end of fanboy wars, tends to get flak merely for existing.  Some of it is entirely deserved, to be clear, but there's also what I like to call the cult of Only Apple Does Bad Things, where they single out Apple for things that are either industry-wide practices or actually milder than what other companies have done.  My 'favourite' is when they boycott Apple products because they're made in harsh conditions, only to flee to their Android phone made in the exact same conditions, use a PC made in the exact same conditions... if people here were consistent about their moral objections, they'd boycott all Samsung products forever.

 

I do think you're downplaying how badly Samsung messed things up.  Yes, it did issue a Note 7 recall relatively quickly, but it bungled many things up to that point.  When the first fire reports emerged, it did an extremely hasty, incomplete analysis... and then just swapped people's phones with others that were still defective.  It was so determined to keep the phone on sale that it was willing to put people in danger rather than be absolutely sure there wasn't a problem.  Samsung needed a cautious, deliberate response, but it was reckless until it had no other choice.

 

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

3) You can't use ignorance as an argument for why something shouldn't be taken seriously. Someone got 8 iPhones and 6 of them has an issue? "Well maybe he is just unlucky!?". Come on dude... It is clearly a widespread issue and Apple were pretty slow with a response, which they always are. People were up in arms and demanding Intel's CEO resign after just 2 days without an official statement regarding Spectre and Meltdown. A few more days later and they were demanding he be put in jail.

I wasn't saying that you shouldn't have taken things seriously -- I'm saying that you shouldn't make overreaching assumptions based on incomplete data.  A tech YouTuber's video is not a fully representative sample. It suggests that the issue wasn't extremely rare, but it doesn't confirm that this was the massive disaster some people wanted it to be.  One of the first things they teach you in critical thinking courses is to avoid confusing anecdotal evidence with definitive proof of a larger pattern, and even a video like Lew's will only tell you so much.

 

18 hours ago, LAwLz said:

4) It takes two to dance tango. Threads were everyone agrees something bad has happened usually ends very quickly, because there isn't really anything to argue about. It's only when someone jumps in and tries to defend shitty behavior that shitstorms and flamewars occur. For some reason people often feel like they need to "balance" a conversation by acting like the exact opposite of the people they might not agree with, and all it does is just create two extreme camps that throw shit on each other. Instead of religiously trying to defend whichever company you feel like defending, maybe analyze what people are saying and then maybe acknowledge that there might be some legitimacy to their complaints? Maybe if you don't jump to the other extreme to "balance" the conversation, it doesn't spiral out of control?
Perhaps dismissing people by saying they are ignorant haters isn't exactly a productive way to stop flamewars and further Apple hate as you might expect?

 

My point is that I think you have a warped perception of reality. Apple gets quite a lot of shit, but so does a lot of other companies too, and I think there is a risk that you, or other people, might have a hard time accepting criticism towards Apple.

Ask some Microsoft fanboy on this forum if they think the hate Microsoft gets is justified and they will probably tell you about how Apple gets away so easy but as soon as Microsoft does even the slightest mistake they get a ton of shit they don't deserve.

I want to acknowledge that the complaints have some legitimacy, and I often do.  I should make it clear that I like Android and even have an Essential Phone and a Google Home Mini hanging around.  The problem, as you've hopefully noticed, is that people on forums like this don't have much nuance when they attack Apple, and that it's extremely predictable.  Minor Apple faults become world-ending crises, and sometimes people are relying on outright misinformation (see: "beautygate").  While I do think nuance is needed with issues like this, you do also need to bring people down to Earth sometimes... and it's hard to be gentle when someone is saying things that are objectively false or misleading.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Oh I'm so sorry anyone. Complaining that you cant turn off the aggressive denoising that occurs on everything other than stage and bright outdoors lighting in a specific fashion as to match the design desires for a specific feature (hereto unnamed to preserve dignity) in certain emerging markets in particular is clearly very different than complaining you cant turn off the specific hereto unnamed feature. Esp when the hyper majority of portrait mode use is either indoors or in 'moderate to low' light situations. 

 

My sincere apologies for spreading that missinformation, even by implicit association. 

[Commodus]

29 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Oh I'm so sorry anyone. Complaining that you cant turn off the aggressive denoising that occurs on everything other than stage and bright outdoors lighting in a specific fashion as to match the design desires for a specific feature (hereto unnamed to preserve dignity) in certain emerging markets in particular is clearly very different than complaining you cant turn off the specific hereto unnamed feature. Esp when the hyper majority of portrait mode use is either indoors or in 'moderate to low' light situations. 

 

My sincere apologies for spreading that missinformation, even by implicit association. 

Oh, please stop with the passive-aggressive replies.  It's childish; you're better than that.

 

There's no evidence that Apple was trying to match beauty modes on other phones.  None.  There is, however, plenty of evidence to suggest that the denoising and Smart HDR are there to provide a better overall picture, even if it does remove detail in some situations.  Photography frequently involves tradeoffs, and it's a shame you're pretending it doesn't.

[AlTech]

DXOMark is a useless measure of cameras.

[Curufinwe_wins]

34 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Oh, please stop with the passive-aggressive replies.  It's childish; you're better than that.

 

There's no evidence that Apple was trying to match beauty modes on other phones.  None.  There is, however, plenty of evidence to suggest that the denoising and Smart HDR are there to provide a better overall picture, even if it does remove detail in some situations.  Photography frequently involves tradeoffs, and it's a shame you're pretending it doesn't.

I would suggest there is exactly as much evidence for both. More for intentional design because when was the last time Apple did something like that unintentionally, and in the SEA market these things are known to be dramatic selling points. 

 

Turning off Smart HDR doesn't undo the denoising issues (it occasionally 'reduces' them). I'm well aware that photography involves tradeoffs. That's why I'm complaining not that they DID something, but that they don't give customers options to UNDO it.

 

I'm just pointing out that claiming my original statement "Beautygate is an issue for the sole reason that you can't turn the damn thing off." Is  a perfectly valid statement regardless of "intent".

 

EDIT: As just a notice to everyone. That OP linked video that claims is proof, isn't proof. There isn't even a single iota of proof in it. There is other people quoted making other claims without any substantiated data or samples to distinguish the 'two hypotheses'.

 

I mean for shit's sake... You guys know what "beauty mode" even is, right? It's aggressive soft denoising and color remapping for the most part. What are the two most known features of this new front-facing setup? Color remapping (shown live by numerous channels), and aggressive soft denoising (likewise). The distinction between the two is arbitrary and non-physical.

[Commodus]

9 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

I would suggest there is exactly as much evidence for both. More for intentional design because when was the last time Apple did something like that unintentionally, and in the SEA market these things are known to be dramatic selling points. 

 

Turning off Smart HDR doesn't undo the denoising issues (it occasionally 'reduces' them). I'm well aware that photography involves tradeoffs. That's why I'm complaining not that they DID something, but that they don't give customers options to UNDO it.

 

I'm just pointing out that claiming my original statement "Beautygate is an issue for the sole reason that you can't turn the damn thing off." Is  a perfectly valid statement regardless of "intent" and your/OPs response in saying it isn't is ridiculous. 

 

 

EDIT: As just a notice to everyone. That OP linked video that claims is proof, isn't proof. There isn't even a single iota of proof in it. There is other people quoted making other claims without any substantiated data or samples to distinguish the two.

If there's evidence for both... then there's nothing conclusive.  And I'd say it still leans more toward general image quality tweaks since noise reduction and better dynamic range are more consistent with Apple's historical camera strategy than novelty features.

 

In many ways that lack of conclusiveness is my real beef.  People point to less detail in someone's cheeks and shout "see!  Beauty mode!" without even understanding the basics of what the camera is doing.  They want an excuse to blast Apple, evidence be damned.

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, Commodus said:

If there's evidence for both... then there's nothing conclusive.  And I'd say it still leans more toward general image quality tweaks since noise reduction and better dynamic range are more consistent with Apple's historical camera strategy than novelty features.

 

In many ways that lack of conclusiveness is my real beef.  People point to less detail in someone's cheeks and shout "see!  Beauty mode!" without even understanding the basics of what the camera is doing.  They want an excuse to blast Apple, evidence be damned.

The only question is intent, which we can't answer right now, and unfortunately probably never will be able to.

 

Either way, the inability to adjust the denoising is annoying. And the result makes images that some people love, and others hate. 

 

Which is the only thing this is. If you like it, cool. If you don't, well don't buy the product cause they probably won't add more adjustability on it in the future (since that is very much not Apples MO). 

 

This behavior will be very popular in areas of the world that love 'Beauty modes' and less popular in spheres that dislike it. I am personally just a bit annoyed that it means we will see more and more non-real photos being generated. But that's it. It's the least important of the issues being brought up, and thus the one line original statement from myself.

[Belgarathian]

13 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

 I'm not at all ashamed to confess that no I did not, because if I had, my comment would not have been any different.  That statement stands on its own, and is simply ridiculous.  As you and others have said, it's based on one test against an old and slow CPU fighting in enemy territory (a high core count server CPU being run in single threaded).  That's clearly an absurd comparison to base any results off of, and that's assuming they're even valid, which I very much doubt.  That of course is all bad enough on it's own, but then for them to have made that comment based on it is not only flat out wrong but also terrible journalism.

That was satisfyingly so much better. 

[Commodus]

39 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

The only question is intent, which we can't answer right now, and unfortunately probably never will be able to.

 

Either way, the inability to adjust the denoising is annoying. And the result makes images that some people love, and others hate. 

 

Which is the only thing this is. If you like it, cool. If you don't, well don't buy the product cause they probably won't add more adjustability on it in the future (since that is very much not Apples MO). 

 

This behavior will be very popular in areas of the world that love 'Beauty modes' and less popular in spheres that dislike it. I am personally just a bit annoyed that it means we will see more and more non-real photos being generated. But that's it. It's the least important of the issues being brought up, and thus the one line original statement from myself.

I think we can largely agree on this.  I'd say the selfies are more realistic in some ways, sometimes at the expense of other detail, but other than that...

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And umm, you guys don't represent the entire forum. And I don't agree with you completely there as I've seen the latter two's objectivity alot in other threads too

You just falsely accused me of something. And now you're saying this. Sigh

 

cognitive bias maybe?  Sometimes I have 5 page debates with people defending apple and sometimes I have 5 page debates explaining why they are shit.  It is always context dependent and that is how objective analysis works.   The important thing is to weight up the information you are given with the information you have and leave you personal ideals at the door.    In fact this thread has me agreeing with LawLz on an apple topic, which is rather rare, that says something for the position you are taking and the reasoning behind it. 

[Bouzoo]

Now this is very funny and very hard to believe. 

 

 

[LAwLz]

13 hours ago, Commodus said:

That's not really it.  It's more that Apple is both a very high-profile, high-volume company (and thus bound to get extra scrutiny) and, being on the opposite end of fanboy wars, tends to get flak merely for existing.  Some of it is entirely deserved, to be clear, but there's also what I like to call the cult of Only Apple Does Bad Things, where they single out Apple for things that are either industry-wide practices or actually milder than what other companies have done.  My 'favourite' is when they boycott Apple products because they're made in harsh conditions, only to flee to their Android phone made in the exact same conditions, use a PC made in the exact same conditions... if people here were consistent about their moral objections, they'd boycott all Samsung products forever.

The only times I've seen people bring up the bad conditions Apple products are made in are responses to people saying things like how environmentally friendly Apple is, or how Apple is so much higher quality than other brands.

 

Maybe there are idiots who think only Apple makes products in Chinese sweatshops, but from what I've seen those comments are usually to try and convince someone that Apple isn't really better or worse than other companies in that department, rather than an attempt to make Apple look worse than everyone else.

 

There is a very big difference between "Apple aren't better than everyone else" and "Apple are worse than everyone else".

 

13 hours ago, Commodus said:

I do think you're downplaying how badly Samsung messed things up.  Yes, it did issue a Note 7 recall relatively quickly, but it bungled many things up to that point.  When the first fire reports emerged, it did an extremely hasty, incomplete analysis... and then just swapped people's phones with others that were still defective.  It was so determined to keep the phone on sale that it was willing to put people in danger rather than be absolutely sure there wasn't a problem.  Samsung needed a cautious, deliberate response, but it was reckless until it had no other choice. 

And I think you're exaggerating how badly Samsung messed up.

Like I said, there were about 100 reports of exploding batteries before Samsung completely pulled the plug on it. Yes, that includes the replacement phones, which were issued after fewer than 40 of the original Galaxy Notes exploded. Let that sink in. Less than 40 phones had exploded before Samsung did the first recall. About 100 phones had exploded before finally pulling all phones.

Like I said, that's a failure rate of 0.004%.

 

Earlier in this thread you tried to invalidate Lew's video where he got 8 iPhones and 7 of them had the charging issue, because he "almost certainly unlucky rather than representative of the extent of the problem".

 

Let's be real here. Based on the reports and threads regarding the Note 7. Did you believe that the issue was more widespread than just 0.004%? I certainly did, and I am fairly sure you did too.

 

And don't give me crap about being backed into a corner before doing anything. Samsung were very proactive the entire time, and Apple are notorious for refusing to acknowledge issues until they absolutely have to.

 

Samsung is to me a shining example of how to handle things in comparison to Apple.

 

 

14 hours ago, Commodus said:

I wasn't saying that you shouldn't have taken things seriously -- I'm saying that you shouldn't make overreaching assumptions based on incomplete data.  A tech YouTuber's video is not a fully representative sample. It suggests that the issue wasn't extremely rare, but it doesn't confirm that this was the massive disaster some people wanted it to be.  One of the first things they teach you in critical thinking courses is to avoid confusing anecdotal evidence with definitive proof of a larger pattern, and even a video like Lew's will only tell you so much. 

The way I interpreted your post, and the way I think most people interpreted it, was that the video should be ignored. You said that Lew was most likely just unlucky and that because the issue wasn't being talked about on every news show it couldn't be a widespread issue. You also said that we had no evidence for how widespread the issue was. You might think that you were being more nuanced than that, but to me you were just one step away from denying the thing ever happened.

You saw someone comment on the chargegate issue and instantly went into the extremist Apple defense mode. You don't create balance by countering one extreme with the opposite extreme.

 

 

14 hours ago, Commodus said:

I want to acknowledge that the complaints have some legitimacy, and I often do.  I should make it clear that I like Android and even have an Essential Phone and a Google Home Mini hanging around.  The problem, as you've hopefully noticed, is that people on forums like this don't have much nuance when they attack Apple, and that it's extremely predictable.  Minor Apple faults become world-ending crises, and sometimes people are relying on outright misinformation (see: "beautygate").  While I do think nuance is needed with issues like this, you do also need to bring people down to Earth sometimes... and it's hard to be gentle when someone is saying things that are objectively false or misleading. 

This forum doesn't like nuances when it comes to defending Apple either, which just further pushes the two extremes apart.

Again, it takes two to tango. Your mentality of "needing to bring people down to earth" is most likely one of the reasons why shitstorms occur, and seemingly small issues becomes "world-ending crises".

 

From what I've seen, the Apple defenders often say things like "this isn't a problem" rather than "I personally don't think this is a big deal". When you tell someone that their experience or opinions is wrong, they will defend it. So instead of telling people that they are wrong (unless they are 100% wrong) make it clear that your perception of the issue are different and maybe there is a middle-ground somewhere.

 

Also, what misinformation about beautygate? From what I've seen the issue seems fairly straight forward. The new iPhone uses a noticeably more aggressive de-noise function, which results in finer details being crushed, and they don't offer any way of lessening the effect.

[D13H4RD]

15 hours ago, wasab said:

You are objectively wrong.

Actually, it's not really that wrong. 

 

iPhones usually have had very strong LCDs historically mostly due to calibration along with what looks like relatively good binned panels. 

 

Just not in terms of pixel density 

[RedRound2]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

Well it's simple.

Chargegate is that the iPhones had an issue where they would fail to charge. It was fixed very recently in an update, but before that it was best to verify that your iPhones actually started charging when plugged in, rather than just plug it in and forget about it.

 

Beauty gate is that the new iPhone has a very aggressive denoise setting which makes photos taken with the front camera seem kind of blurry, and smoothes out things like wrinkles, and this can be not changed by the users.

You knowing what this issue is about does not mean everyone knows it here

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

Really? I think I often say good things about Apple and I rarely if ever get bunch backlash from it. For example whenever I tell someone that the iPhone has a beast of a CPU, and a very, very powerful GPU people seem more impressed than mad. But I don't go "other phones are shit! Apple is the best so stop being a hater!" which I think is the way those people interpret your posts.

Please quote me in places where I've said other phones are shit. The CPU/GPU of Apples is something haters can't attack at all without losing all sorts of dignity. Didn't say Apple is the best also. Apple does alot of things right, that other companies just seems to have no clue about. And whenever Apple does do things differently, haters will go to town. Remember when Touch ID first came out? People dissed it as a gimmick, when it has turned into a feature that no one can live without at this point

 

Also the most recent example of blind Apple hate. The iPhone Xs was criticised alot by youtubers and the community for not being all that different from the iPhone X. Now look at the Pixel 3. It's pretty much the same phone with updated off the shelf components apart from the visual core. Yet alot of those same people (like Riley in LTT and even Dave Lee) who critizie Apple for not doing enough are perfectly fine with want Google came up with

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

Maybe it is the way you present the information which rubs people the wrong way? Like in this thread where you took a quote out of context and pushed it to make the iPhone sound better than it is.

I didn't take it out of context. I'll be honest, I'm not going to pretend to understand everything written in Anadtech article and the headline is from various other sources who has made the filter with the same. 

 

Also Anadtech conclusion, where the same was stated offers no reference to any particular conditions, so it's more of their fault for saying it that way, or they actually meant it.

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

I clicked because I wanted to read the thread. I was kind of disappointed when I discovered that the "top ratings" were mostly just within margin of error from their competitors, and the Anandtech quote regarding CPU performance was kind of misleading and taken out of context.

I think that you and I care for different reasons too. You care because it is Apple (by your own admission) and I care because I like phones.

Do you really expect Apple or anyone for that matter to make a camera, screen and display leaps and bounds ahead of the competition when these days most of the top dogs have perfectly acceptable performance in all these categories

 

My point is that Apple uses the best of the best components to make their phones while some people think Apple is still cutting corners on the important categories of these days 1000 dollar phones. Is it justifiable, depends on you, but for 1000 dollars you are getting the best of the best components and it's important for haters and just assumed to know that.

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

And if your defense is that being let's say top 5 in three categories warrants dedicated threads then get ready for every single flagship phone released to get multiple threads created about them, with the sole intention of just boasting about how awesome company X or Y is.

Actually the Note 9 has a great display and that's it.

 

Pixel 2 last time had (I doubt it will be any different this year) the best camera and that's about it.

 

And then the other premium brand is Apple these days who have comparitively aced in more categories, but yet they get shit thrown at them

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

You literally took part of a sentence from Anandtech and put it at the top of your post.

The full quote you used later doesn't explain the situation either. Don't pretend to play dumb like you didn't know what you were doing. You chose that quote very carefully.

Look at how people are lashing out at that particular quote, saying Anandtech are idiots, then when I dug through the article, found the test and explained it everyone seemed to go "oh, okay that makes sense".

 

How come you didn't mention that the desktop processor they were comparing it against was only using one out of 28 cores, and had a much lower clock speed than regular desktop CPUs, as well as a far generations old architecture? Wasn't your goal to prevent misinformation? Because the way you present your information is extremely misleading. It makes me believe that you don't really care if information is right or wrong, as long as it makes Apple look good.

I replied to this above.

On 10/9/2018 at 8:23 PM, LAwLz said:

 

1) It's not electronics. It's basic physics and logic.

2) The problem isn't that you didn't know. The problem was that you pretended to know, and assumed that things were a certain way because it would make Apple look better. It seems to me like you don't listen to facts if they aren't positive towards Apple.

Maybe you do, but based on what I've seen in our conversations I don't think you do.

I remember my reasoning. I said wireless will finally take off and it'll clear up more internal space. I might've said something stupid about also forgoing a DAC but that's all. And now, wireless has become quite popular and in my country I can get pretty decent wireless earbuds for about 10 dollars, something that just wasn't a thing before.

22 hours ago, wasab said:

You are objectively wrong.

Lol, no I'm not. Check the reviews out for yourself or bring in some facts that prove me wrong

22 hours ago, wasab said:

Other flagships do not run iOS

And by that you're saying iOS is the reason. Lol. There's Android One on the Android side.

It's planned obsolescence and companies aren't willing to pour money into 2+ old year flagships to make optimized software, thereby preventing it from lasting in perfect condition for too long. Usable, maybe but is it in ideal gooad as new condition, usually never (it even applies to Pixel 2). Hell, I'm pretty sure the only reason they even do two years is to please Google

[Commodus]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The only times I've seen people bring up the bad conditions Apple products are made in are responses to people saying things like how environmentally friendly Apple is, or how Apple is so much higher quality than other brands.

 

Maybe there are idiots who think only Apple makes products in Chinese sweatshops, but from what I've seen those comments are usually to try and convince someone that Apple isn't really better or worse than other companies in that department, rather than an attempt to make Apple look worse than everyone else.

 

There is a very big difference between "Apple aren't better than everyone else" and "Apple are worse than everyone else".

Oh, I've definitely seen it.  The ones who think Apple is an awful, awful company for having its products made at Foxconn, forgetting that Foxconn actually has numerous customers.  In one case people attacked Apple for supposedly having suicide jumpers at its factories... that was at factories making Xboxes.  (Still Foxconn, and it's horrible no matter who's involved, but it shows how the information is skewed.)

 

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

And I think you're exaggerating how badly Samsung messed up.

Like I said, there were about 100 reports of exploding batteries before Samsung completely pulled the plug on it. Yes, that includes the replacement phones, which were issued after fewer than 40 of the original Galaxy Notes exploded. Let that sink in. Less than 40 phones had exploded before Samsung did the first recall. About 100 phones had exploded before finally pulling all phones.

Like I said, that's a failure rate of 0.004%.

 

Earlier in this thread you tried to invalidate Lew's video where he got 8 iPhones and 7 of them had the charging issue, because he "almost certainly unlucky rather than representative of the extent of the problem".

 

Let's be real here. Based on the reports and threads regarding the Note 7. Did you believe that the issue was more widespread than just 0.004%? I certainly did, and I am fairly sure you did too.

 

And don't give me crap about being backed into a corner before doing anything. Samsung were very proactive the entire time, and Apple are notorious for refusing to acknowledge issues until they absolutely have to.

 

Samsung is to me a shining example of how to handle things in comparison to Apple.

But why did it decide to do a half-hearted investigation and a simple phone swap after that "fewer than 40" caught fire?  Why did it let another 60 or so catch fire before issuing the recall it should have done in the first place?  Again, this is an issue that could kill people.  If you have significant evidence of a serious safety hazard, you issue an immediate recall and don't put the device back on shelves until you're absolutely sure it's safe.  No excuses, no exceptions.  Samsung was only "proactive" after it was clear its initial, dismissive assessment was inaccurate.

 

I wasn't invalidating Lew's video.  I was saying that it wasn't representative of the issue the way some people thought it was.  If you believed some people on LTT and elsewhere, you'd think that most iPhone XS phones were affected, that this was a calamitous event that left millions of people with empty batteries. It was a stupid mistake on Apple's part, but we don't know how many people were affected by it, let alone how many even realized there was a problem.  Lew's video only really suggested that it was significant enough to be more than a fluke of a few bad units.

 

8 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The way I interpreted your post, and the way I think most people interpreted it, was that the video should be ignored. You said that Lew was most likely just unlucky and that because the issue wasn't being talked about on every news show it couldn't be a widespread issue. You also said that we had no evidence for how widespread the issue was. You might think that you were being more nuanced than that, but to me you were just one step away from denying the thing ever happened.

You saw someone comment on the chargegate issue and instantly went into the extremist Apple defense mode. You don't create balance by countering one extreme with the opposite extreme.

Certainly didn't mean it that way.  And when I mean widespread, I mean more than a small-but-significant number.  It is true, however, that we don't know how widespread the issue was and likely never will, since even Apple probably doesn't have data to show how many phones weren't charging.  I saw more than a few people (not necessarily just on LTT) making assumptions based on that video.

 

It's not extremist to want more data before reaching a conclusion.  Many people saw that video and thought it said everything they needed to know, and that's just wrong.

 

8 hours ago, LAwLz said:

This forum doesn't like nuances when it comes to defending Apple either, which just further pushes the two extremes apart.

Again, it takes two to tango. Your mentality of "needing to bring people down to earth" is most likely one of the reasons why shitstorms occur, and seemingly small issues becomes "world-ending crises".

 

From what I've seen, the Apple defenders often say things like "this isn't a problem" rather than "I personally don't think this is a big deal". When you tell someone that their experience or opinions is wrong, they will defend it. So instead of telling people that they are wrong (unless they are 100% wrong) make it clear that your perception of the issue are different and maybe there is a middle-ground somewhere.

 

Also, what misinformation about beautygate? From what I've seen the issue seems fairly straight forward. The new iPhone uses a noticeably more aggressive de-noise function, which results in finer details being crushed, and they don't offer any way of lessening the effect.

But I'm already in the middle ground (it's a significant issue, but not calamitous).  Why should I move closer to the Chicken Little, sky-is-falling point of view?  I understand what you're getting at, but it assumes both that I'm on the polar opposite side of them (I'm not) and that the sky-is-falling camp has some fact-based arguments (it doesn't).

 

On beautygate... you understand it, but many don't.  At least initially, many people genuinely thought Apple was softening skin to make people look nicer -- hence why it's called "beautygate."  And there are still people who act as if there's something sinister behind it, rather than an attempt to improve image quality that had some negative consequences.

[D13H4RD]

29 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Also the most recent example of blind Apple hate. The iPhone Xs was criticised alot by youtubers and the community for not being all that different from the iPhone X. Now look at the Pixel 3. It's pretty much the same phone with updated off the shelf components apart from the visual core. Yet alot of those same people (like Riley in LTT and even Dave Lee) who critizie Apple for not doing enough are perfectly fine with want Google came up with

Well, I'll sorta disagree on that one.

 

I would agree that comparing both the P3 XL and P2 XL, there ain't much to talk about, but comparing the smaller versions of the 2, there's actually quite a bit to like. Smaller bezels, more rounded design, a bigger battery, etc. Of course, it starts at a $150 premium over the Pixel 2, so you would expect major improvements over its predecessor.

 

The thing about the iPhone XS is that it's really more of a minor iterative update over the X. That is not necessarily a bad thing but you kinda feel that it's a little "meh". Not when some of the previous "S" devices brought something that's actually quite nice and was a big deal at the time. The 3GS gave the iPhone its first hardware specs bump and video recording for the first time in iPhone history, the 4S introduced a virtual digital assistant called "Siri", the 5S popularized the fingerprint sensor and the 6s introduced NVMe storage for the iPhone, which probably helped the 6s age far more gracefully than any iPhone before.......until Apple throttled it due to degrading batteries without anyone noticing.

 

With the XS, the headlines are size and an upgraded camera with better software inspired from computational photography efforts from Google. Nothing really all that new and surprising. It also didn't help that the iPhone X is still holding up extremely well, so much so that my brother-in-law is upgrading from his aging 6 Plus to an X mostly due to the cost difference and how the X is holding up superbly well in comparison.

[wasab]

51 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

 

And by that you're saying iOS is the reason. Lol. There's Android One on the Android side.

It's planned obsolescence and companies aren't willing to pour money into 2+ old year flagships to make optimized software, thereby preventing it from lasting in perfect condition for too long. Usable, maybe but is it in ideal gooad as new condition, usually never (it even applies to Pixel 2). Hell, I'm pretty sure the only reason they even do two years is to please Google

2

i can port the lastest android p to a phone from the 2014. can you do that? 

custom roms is a thing but of course you do not know that because you do not know how to use technologies. 

 

True flagships do not run ios which is a close walled software delimiting to the potential of the hardwares. 

[wasab]

8 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Actually, it's not really that wrong. 

 

iPhones usually have had very strong LCDs historically mostly due to calibration along with what looks like relatively good binned panels. 

 

Just not in terms of pixel density 

samsung make the best lcd, otherwise why so many purchase their tvs? apple make phones, they arent screen experts. 

[D13H4RD]

13 minutes ago, wasab said:

samsung make the best lcd, otherwise why so many purchase their tvs? apple make phones, they arent screen experts. 

Yeah but....Samsung doesn't make phone LCD panels. LG, Japan Display and some others do. 

 

In fact, as far as I know, LG supplies Apple with many of their LCD panels. 

 

I have owned many and currently use a Samsung phone. I should know this and be familiar with it by now. 

[RedRound2]

44 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

I would agree that comparing both the P3 XL and P2 XL, there ain't much to talk about, but comparing the smaller versions of the 2, there's actually quite a bit to like. Smaller bezels, more rounded design, a bigger battery, etc. Of course, it starts at a $150 premium over the Pixel 2, so you would expect major improvements over its predecessor.

Is $150 premium for something that used to come at effectively as a yearly free upgrade, justifiable? I mean even Apple is did the same where they justified maybe a $100-$200 price bump for the iPhone X but instead took it upto $999.

The phones aren't really all that different at all, especially considering there is a significant price bump. And in all honesty I'm fine with is as I know that it's difficult to make a phone that isn't too predictable today, but my problem is again with those same people who seem to all have a double standard when it comes to Apple.

Quote

The thing about the iPhone XS is that it's really more of a minor iterative update over the X. That is not necessarily a bad thing but you kinda feel that it's a little "meh". Not when some of the previous "S" devices brought something that's actually quite nice and was a big deal at the time. The 3GS gave the iPhone its first hardware specs bump and video recording for the first time in iPhone history, the 4S introduced a virtual digital assistant called "Siri", the 5S popularized the fingerprint sensor and the 6s introduced NVMe storage for the iPhone, which probably helped the 6s age far more gracefully than any iPhone before.......until Apple throttled it due to degrading batteries without anyone noticing.

All those previous S were also criticized for the same. Maybe not by you, but the same people I was talking about before. But again this year, the camera seems to be a huge improvement and I'm sure Apple's NPU will have its fruition in the coming years

 

Also read the comment I quoted below. Typical people I have to deal with.

 

17 minutes ago, wasab said:

i can port the lastest android p to a phone from the 2014. can you do that? 

custom roms is a thing but of course you do not know that because you do not know how to use technologies. 

 

True flagships do not run ios which is a close walled software delimiting to the potential of the hardwares. 

Is it the same for all the phone is 2014? Can I do it without voiding service rights? Can I do it without opening 500 security holes and backdoors on my phone? Will every single feature work flawlessly like it was before?

 

Theses aren't even questions that need to be asked when an OEM rolls out an official update.

 

15 minutes ago, wasab said:

samsung make the best lcd, otherwise why so many purchase their tvs? apple make phones, they arent screen experts. 

It's OLED btw. Not LCD. Says alot about your credibility, to make such statements, there itself

And somehow Apple's iPhone Xs beat the Note9 is the display department.

Samsung does make the best screens, but Apple has much better software for suited for that screen they make that makes it better than the Note9. Same thing is the case with their processors.