Dutch authorities release information about a Russian attemp to infiltrate the network of the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons

[Master Disaster]

This is actually very rare, usually this kind of data involving spying by foreign nations is so highly classified it NEVER gets released.

 

Back in April this year the OPCW were busy investigating the, at the time, alleged Novichok poisoning of 2 ex russian nationals on UK soil. During this period 4"russian spies were caught red handed parked near the OPCW HQ with equipment in the car designed to intercept wireless login attempts and steal usernames and passwords.

Quote

The operation by Russia's GRU military intelligence allegedly targeted the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons in The Hague in April.

 

The four suspects identified by Dutch officials had diplomatic passports and included two IT experts and two support agents, officials said.

 

They hired a car and parked it in the car park of the Marriot hotel in The Hague, which is next to the OPCW office, to hack into the OPCW's wifi network, Major General Onno Eichelsheim from the Dutch MIVD intelligence service said.

The men were found carrying items that linked them to Russia's Spy HQ

Quote

One of their mobile phones was found to have been activated near the GRU building in Moscow. Another carried a receipt for a taxi journey from a street near the GRU to the airport.

These details have been made public as part of a coordinated effort to push back against Russia's current cyber crime campaign. As I said earlier, normally we would never hear about these things.

Quote

Counter-intelligence investigations -tracking another country's spies - are normally among the most secret.

 

So this was a stunning press conference from Dutch intelligence revealing exactly how they caught four Russian intelligence officers, what they were carrying and what they intended to do.

 

It is part of a co-ordinated push with the UK and US to pile on the pressure on the GRU about its activities in the wake of the Salisbury poisoning.

 

The revelations also went way beyond just the targeting of the OPCW to provide an insight into the "close access hacking operations" by the GRU in which they sent operatives abroad, as well as cyber activities coming out of Moscow.

A retrieved laptop has been used to connect Russia to multiple cyber attacks commited around the globe including the downing of an aircraft that killed 300 people

Quote

A laptop seized from the suspects was found to have been used in Brazil, Switzerland and Malaysia.

 

In Malaysia it was used to target the investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH-17 over rebel-held territory in eastern Ukraine in 2014, killing all 298 people on board.

 

The cyber operation targeted Malaysia's attorney general's office and Malaysian police, Ambassador Wilson said.

 

Earlier this year Dutch-led international investigators concluded that the missile belonged to a Russian brigade. Russia has denied any involvement in the plane's destruction.

 

Data from the laptop showed it was also present in the Swiss city of Lausanne where it was linked to the hacking of a laptop belonging to the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada), which has exposed doping by Russian athletes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45746837

 

Holy shit on a cracker. I mean we all suspect what's going on behind the scenes but to hear about it first hand is very rare. If this is the stuff they get caught doing imagine the stuff they get away with.

[PlayStation 2]

Not really on topic but I like how easy it is to understand certain Dutch words when you don't know much of it.

[Master Disaster]

Just now, VegetableStu said:

i don't like the prospect of it, but when is it that becomes an act of war? o_o

Honestly, that's a pretty major concern for me as well. Putin is a fruit cake and if they push him to far I don't see him pushing his big red launch button as being that far fetched.

 

But let's try and stay away from the politics side as much as possible.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

5 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

This is actually very rare, usually this kind of data involving spying by foreign nations is so highly classified it NEVER gets released.

 

Unless it's not about spying but about influencing public opinion, in which case of course you are going to make everything very public.

[vanished]

4 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

i don't like the prospect of it, but when is it that becomes an act of war? o_o

I feel like countries actually don't want war (which obviously is a good thing) because otherwise, you have to imagine virtually every developed country would be at war with ever other over the various spy and cyber-attack activities like this that go one behind the scenes.

[vanished]

9 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Not really on topic but I like how easy it is to understand certain Dutch words when you don't know much of it.

English is somewhat closely related to it (and more so other Germanic variants) so it's to be expected many words would be similar enough to figure out since they probably decended from the same root at some point.  The same can be said about French to some degree.  That said, you have to watch out for words that seem similar but actually are totally unrelated... this can happen between any language and another.  Also, there's many modern words that (seemingly) are created in one language (usually English it seems, but that could just be my Anglo-centric view) and then dropped straight into others with little or no modification, so that could explain it as well.  Just look at the English and Russian words for "computer" for example

[Master Disaster]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

I feel like countries actually don't want war (which obviously is a good thing) because otherwise, you have to imagine virtually every developed country would be at war with ever other over the various spy activities like this that go one behind the scenes.

Fun fact: during the Cuban missile crisis a Soviet Naval Captain was given the order to launch, an order he ignored which luckily prevented World War 3. He was still court marshalled and stuck in military prison though.

 

I'm sure most people don't want war however it only takes one person to follow an order.

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

English is somewhat closely related to it (and more so other Germanic variants) so it's to be expected many words would be similar enough to figure out since they probably decended from the same root at some point.  The same can be said about French to some degree.  That said, you have to watch out for words that seem similar but actually are totally unrelated... this can happen between any language and another.  Also, there's many modern words that (seemingly) are created in one language (usually English it seems, but that could just be my Anglo-centric view) and then dropped straight into others with little or no modification, so that could explain it as well.  Just look at the English and Russian words for "computer" for example

I like to call Dutch the less angry brother of German that knows a little bit of English, because both languages have a good deal of commonality.

Usually if you know one Latin language, learning another isn't too tough.

[RuffRuffmcgruff]

[mr moose]

16 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Not really on topic but I like how easy it is to understand certain Dutch words when you don't know much of it.

I want to know why the tags in the red boxes are in English while the rest of the slide is in Dutch?

[Ashleyyyy]

17 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Not really on topic but I like how easy it is to understand certain Dutch words when you don't know much of it.

welke woorden precies?  

[sof006]

This is nuts, isn't this now classed as war? They're attacking innocent people and we have evidence of this.

[imreloadin]

19 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Honestly, that's a pretty major concern for me as well. Putin is a fruit cake and if they push him to far I don't see him pushing his big red launch button as being that far fetched.

 

But let's try and stay away from the politics side as much as possible.

Nah, you don't get to be the head of a country continuously by being a "fruit cake". People always think that Kim Jong Un is nuts too. Truth is that they're both intelligent and calculating individuals who know just how much they can get away with.

[dalekphalm]

2 hours ago, sof006 said:

This is nuts, isn't this now classed as war? They're attacking innocent people and we have evidence of this.

While all of this is true, what are the Dutch going to do about it? Or anyone else for that matter? Are we really going to start a shooting war over this? I can almost guarantee that Russia is more prepared to follow through with an actual armed conflict with the West, then we are.

 

The best that can be done without escalating the situation to war is counter-espionage actions, and political/economic pressure.

[dizmo]

I'm curious as to what they were trying to obtain. By the sounds of it by name (I'll admit I haven't looked into it) the organization sounds like it just prevents chemical weapons, not that it holds information about production. Also let's be real; Russia's chemical weapons resources are vast.

 

22 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Fun fact: during the Cuban missile crisis a Soviet Naval Captain was given the order to launch, an order he ignored which luckily prevented World War 3. He was still court marshalled and stuck in military prison though.

 

I'm sure most people don't want war however it only takes one person to follow an order.

Not entirely accurate; submarines were armed with a nuclear tipped torpedo, which was a last resort, and could take out a significant number of ships within their radius. A Soviet captain lost it and ordered the torpedo launch. Aboard these subs, there were 3 senior officers, and each one had to agree that launching was the right decision; on this occasion, one officer disagreed with the launch. Thus, it didn't take place.

22 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Not really on topic but I like how easy it is to understand certain Dutch words when you don't know much of it.

Who's to say they didn't know Dutch?

[dalekphalm]

10 minutes ago, dizmo said:

Who's to say they didn't know Dutch?

I think he's saying that he doesn't know Dutch... not the Russians.

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

I'm curious as to what they were trying to obtain. By the sounds of it by name (I'll admit I haven't looked into it) the organization sounds like it just prevents chemical weapons, not that it holds information about production. Also let's be real; Russia's chemical weapons resources are vast.

The OPCW are responsible for investigating any alleged chemical weapon attacks commited anywhere in the world. They go in and try to find out what exactly was used, then they usually try to determine when it was used and also where it came from. I think they might be a part of the UN though I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

At the time of this incident ths OPCW were investigating alleged Russian involvement in a chemical weapon attack on UK soil against 2 ex Russian nationals who were living in the UK.

 

My guess is the intent was at a minimum to try and find out what data the OPCW had, possible even try to tamper with it?

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

While all of this is true, what are the Dutch going to do about it? Or anyone else for that matter? Are we really going to start a shooting war over this? I can almost guarantee that Russia is more prepared to follow through with an actual armed conflict with the West, then we are.

 

The best that can be done without escalating the situation to war is counter-espionage actions, and political/economic pressure.

Indeed, these things are incredibly delicate. I can fully understand why details of these types of incidents are never released. Can you imagine some of the shit that's happened that we don't know about?

[DaRk0]

7 hours ago, sof006 said:

This is nuts, isn't this now classed as war? They're attacking innocent people and we have evidence of this.

Questionable 'evidence' at best. Even if it's true, what can Netherlands or any other country for that matter do against Russian armed forces?

[Delicieuxz]

I will be interested to see how Russia responds to these allegations, and how they play out. Most of what Western countries have accused Russia of over the past many years has become proven to be false, over time.

 

I don't doubt it would be done, as that's pretty basic and regular stuff for states especially NATO countries, but at this point, I don't credit these beyond the accusations that they are from a group that has been dedicated to making false accusations against Russia for years. Lies are NATOs and especially the US' first offence and defence.

 

8 hours ago, sof006 said:

This is nuts, isn't this now classed as war? They're attacking innocent people and we have evidence of this.

If you think that's war, then what would you describe what the US and NATO have been doing to Russia nonstop for many years?

 

"I think there is no doubt that when any foreign government tries to impact the integrity of our elections ... we need to take action. And we will — at a time and place of our own choosing. Some of it may be explicit and publicized; some of it may not be." - Obama

 

Nine months, nine prominent Russians dead

 

 

 

Remember all of those never-evidenced allegations of Russia having a state-run doping program, which got Russia expelled from the 2018 Winter Olympics?

 

Well, earlier this year the matter went to court at the Court of Arbitration for Sport (the world's top sporting court), and Canadian investigator McLaren denied in court ever claiming that over 1,000 Russian athletes had benefited from a systematic doping scheme, and Rodchenkov denied in court ever witnessing any Russian athlete doping or taking drug cocktails. Rodchenkov's given timeline for tests results being tampered with was proven to be false, as the test results weren't available in the locations where Rodchenkov claimed they were tampered with and at which times.

 

BTW, Rodchenkov is diagnosed with Schizophrenia and was arrested with his sister in Russia many years ago for running an illegal drug ring. Rodchenkov was let go, but his sister was imprisoned. Rodchenkov fled to the US with a grudge against Russia. His possible motive for making up claims against Russia is obvious.

 

Anyway, the CAS ruled there to be no evidence and not even a single witness to back up any of McLaren and Rodchenkov's allegations of Russian doping. In other words, the whole crusade against Russian doping was a hoax orchestrated by Western countries to demonize Russia internationally. Consequently, the bans on Russia's athletes were overturned, and many of Russia Olympic medals from the Sochi games were returned, restoring Russia to the #1 spot in medals won for the Sochi games, and Russia's anti-doping agency RUSADA has been reinstated by WADA.

 

But, you haven't seen all of that reported in Western news, have you? That's because propaganda is not about the claims being true, but about the damage they can do to public perception of an opponent.

 

 

 

Accusations of Russian downing MH-17:

 

Well, Malaysia, whose plane it is that was shot down and who is a core member of the JIT investigative team, recently said this after the most-recent JIT presentation:

 

No conclusive evidence Russia behind MH17 downing: Malaysia transport minister

 

"There is no conclusive evidence to point at Russia under the JIT evidence. But who's responsible - you can't just pinpoint at Russia. Of course we have to take into consideration diplomatic relations. Any further actions will be based on conclusive evidence".

 

So, the story about JIT's MH-17 investigation that's been being pushed in Western news is not representative of the real state of the team's investigation and evidence.

 

 

Also, Russia recently (after the latest JIT presentation) gave a presentation detailing issues with the JIT evidence and using archived documents to show that the missile-casing that JIT displayed during their presentation as coming from the missile that shot down MH-17, belonged to Ukraine, with Ukraine's government having recently claimed that none of their Buk systems had passed into rebel possession.

 

Serial numbers of missile that downed MH17 show it was produced in 1986, owned by Ukraine - Russia

 

Full presentation: 

Segment alleging the JIT's video of a Buk launcher being transported is falsified with CG edits:

 

 

 

Not to even start getting into:

 

- the US and NATO's training, funding, and supplying of terrorists in Syria

- the constant new sanctions against Russia which are actually meant to stop Russia from being a competitor to NATO on the international stage

- the US sanctioning the world if they do business with Russia (since when did the US become the owner of all countries?)

- all the debunked (and hypocritical) claims about Russia meddling in the US' election

- the US coup and puppet government installation in former Ukraine

- the US' gargantuan troll farm program that's dedicated to attackin Russia in social media everywhere

- the $50 - $100 million per year the US has budgeted for spreading propaganda in Russia's domestic media

- claims of a Russian annexation and occupation of Crimea as pretext for economic sanctions (by the way, 80% of the international community doesn't support the US and NATO's accusation that Crimea was annexed and is occupied by Russia)

 

And so much more. The West has been doing a hit job on Russia for many years to try to take down Russia's international clout and its economic growth which was surging before these nonstop campaigns by the US and NATO.

 

As a rule, everything that the US accuses Russia of doing, the US does, does to a far greater extent, and often was doing first by a long time (such as having state-run troll farms). So, if this action alleged of Russia constitutes war, then what is the description for what the US been doing all these past years?

[Mihle]

Deliciouxz believe some weird stuff using one of the least trustworthy sites that have been caught spreading Russian propaganda that have been debunked multiple times.

[Delicieuxz]

9 hours ago, Mihle said:

Deliciouxz believe some weird stuff using one of the least trustworthy sites that have been caught spreading Russian propaganda that have been debunked multiple times.

You mean CNN? Well, it isn't just CNN that reported on the Russian diplomats' assassinations. You can find that information from a variety of sources.

 

 

As for RT, the second most-watched news in the world (only after the BBC, despite RT being created just in 2005), it's certainly one of the better news sources out there, easily head and shoulders above any US and UK MSM outlet. It's telling that all the people with reputations for being conscientious reporters tend to leave their US and UK MSM employers to work for RT:

 

Chris Hedges - formerly at New York Times, Pulitzer Prize winner

Larry King - formerly at CNN

Ed Schultz - formerly at NBC (passed away recently)

Alex Salmond - formerly First Minister of Scotland

George Galloway - formerly a UK MP for 17 years

Jesse Ventura - formerly governor of Minnesota

Rory Suchet - formerly at CNN

Afshin Rattansi - formerly at BBC, CNN, Al Jazeera, Bloomberg, The Guardian...

Max Keiser - formerly at BBC, Al Jazeera…

Ameera David - formerly at ABC, NBC

Colin Bray - formerly a producer and broadcaster at BBC

Nadira Tudor - formerly a producer and reporter at BBC

Tabetha Wallace - formerly at Newsweek Magazine, Miramax Films

Mike Papantonio - a high-profile US lawyer

Sharmine Narwani - New York Times, the Guardian, USA Today, Huffington Post, Al Jazeera

Neil Clark - The Guardian, Morning Star, Daily and Sunday Express, Mail on Sunday, Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph

 

The information I included in my previous post is not from RT, but is from the Russian government, and has merely been reported by RT. And the fact that US and UK media outlets haven't been reporting that information is a discredit to them, and not to RT.

 

No media source gets everything correct all the time. But, if comparing the rate at which RT's reporting has been found inaccurate compared to all the big US and UK MSM outlets, then RT is shown to be a much more reputable source for information than US and UK MSM.

 

So, you either didn't understand what you were saying, or you were being deliberately disingenuous and repeating propaganda that you've personally been programmed with, which would make you also a propagandist.

 

Also, if you're going to talk negatively about somebody, then quote them so they will see it. To not is to behave like a coward.

 

And, if wanting to argue against information, then I recommend attacking the information rather than the medium that presented it. To not is to suggest that you lack the ability to think for yourself.

 

By the way, I don't simply read RT, but I read from dozens of different sites (including the ones you're likely reading, judging by your comment), sometimes in a single day. Because of that, I'm aware that RT is perhaps the most accurate out of all English MSM, and I therefore also know that you don't really know what you're talking about.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mihle]

@Delicieuxz Firstly, CNN is shit, US media in general really bad. Fox news is utter shit.

Keep believing stuff that isnt true tho. You decide. (Never said everything RT news says is wrong or anything btw, just that believing its a good site is just....)

Neither of the two things you said about me is true. I know what I am talking about and I am not spreading propaganda.

What I said is based on content they have posted in the past.

BTW, the worst source about any news sites is what it says about itself.

 

I will post more soon.

[Upierczi]

Just another chapter in the modern spin of the cold war. One country or agency does a virtual attack to another's, and vice versa. It's typical run of the mill espionage countries do to one another, and it's nothing too surprising. These have been going for a while, increasing in the past decade or so. News stations avoid to mention the various West-sponsored retaliations. (After all, you can't fault the side you are in. Whether you claim it's their fault, and you have security and networking engineer agencies actively working on retaliation in the background, all for national security.) These things aren't new, nor it's worth starting a physical war over these. What you do is use anything you catch as means to put pressure to the other party. (There's nothing more embarrassing than being caught and having to go to great lengths to cover your tracks or deny everything, or simply bite down another sanction)

[Master Disaster]

49 minutes ago, Upierczi said:

Just another chapter in the modern spin of the cold war. One country or agency does a virtual attack to another's, and vice versa. It's typical run of the mill espionage countries do to one another, and it's nothing too surprising. These have been going for a while, increasing in the past decade or so. News stations avoid to mention the various West-sponsored retaliations. (After all, you can't fault the side you are in. Whether you claim it's their fault, and you have security and networking engineer agencies actively working on retaliation in the background, all for national security.) These things aren't new, nor it's worth starting a physical war over these. What you do is use anything you catch as means to put pressure to the other party. (There's nothing more embarrassing than being caught and having to go to great lengths to cover your tracks or deny everything, or simply bite down another sanction)

It's not worth starting a war for the west but if the pressure against Russia continues to mount you have to wonder at what point does it become worth it for Russia?