SONY created a new backlit & fullframe cmos sensor

[Kamjam21xx]

This news is from Feb 17. I just came upon it and found it very interesting, and definitely worth the read.

 

SONY has managed to create a new backlit & fullframe cmos sensor. This sensor wasnt even 2mp, however the tech behind this is very promising for future cameras. 

 

 

To be able to buy a $2,000-$5,000

 camera that has 15 or 16 stops of dynamic range, almost no noise at even high iso at night, 4k+, 35mm, and with a global shutter... this would be the holy grail for prosumer cameras i believe. Which i am now expecting, as i expect sony to always push technology.

 

 

-VideoMaker-

"Big news is coming out of Sony and it’s that they’ve developed a back-illuminated CMOS sensor that enables global shutter function. Now, the sensor is only 1.46 megapixels, so don’t expect it to be integrated into any Sony cameras anytime soon, but regardless, it's still a big feat for Sony.

The advantage of backlit CMOS sensor is that it basically allows cameras to capture images at lower light levels with a lot less noise. This is because the sensor’s electric circuits are placed at the back of the sensor, not the front, meaning that more light can get to the photosites and less readout amplification is required."

 

https://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2018/02/sony-develops-back-illuminated-global-shutter-cmos-image-sensor

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Regardless of how many pixels your camera might technically have, most people are probably dealing with ~6 or fewer useful MP anyway due to bad glass and/or bad post-processing, so tbh this isn't that far from being potentially very usable.

[LienusLateTips]

Huh

[Kamjam21xx]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Regardless of how many pixels your camera might technically have, most people are probably dealing with ~6 or fewer useful MP anyway due to bad glass and/or bad post-processing, so tbh this isn't that far from being potentially very usable.

my personal camera right now downsamples to 4k from 6k. The A7sii is only 12mp i believe, and has the best lowlight 4k footage ive seen out of a prosumer camera. I expect their future cameras to be similar.

[Kamjam21xx]

2 minutes ago, VegetableStu said:

yeah that (or the next iteration) is on my unicorn list. I'm not buying another DSLR untill it breaks (and buy another pleb one) or I can afford to throw away a month and a bit more's worth in average salary away

Well that makes 2 of us. Im really excited to buy it. I dont want the A7iii because of the NR at high iso, unless you can turn it off. Its really hard to pick a specific A7 camera to buy thought.

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, JDE said:

Huh

If you think you're confused - I just woke up and very squintely misread this as being a company invented RGB backlighting for the CMOS battery in motherboards.

[Deli]

16 stops of dynamic range. That is insane. I would love to see using ISO 1600 for shooting Milkyway with no noise.

[Bananasplit_00]

ok, nice new tech 20 years away from me touching it i guess

[D13H4RD]

6 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Regardless of how many pixels your camera might technically have, most people are probably dealing with ~6 or fewer useful MP anyway due to bad glass and/or bad post-processing, so tbh this isn't that far from being potentially very usable.

Word 

 

The kit lens on my a6000 is pretty meh. I can get good results out of it but my Sigma outperforms it in pretty much every way

[mynameisjuan]

4 hours ago, Deli said:

16 stops of dynamic range. That is insane. I would love to see using ISO 1600 for shooting Milkyway with no noise.

Wait 1600 with no noise? What potato are you using, my A77 had no noise at 1600 and thats saying something. 

 

I want to get my hands on an A7ii. I am an astrophotographer and the video aspect has interested me over the years. 

[NumLock21]

I read the title as, Sony created a new clickbait fullframe cmos sensor.

 

 

[SeraphicWings]

My A7III's new BSI sensor is already very impressive enough in low-light already

 

Now, if this thing is armed in an A7S near future, holy shit....

[Deli]

9 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Wait 1600 with no noise? What potato are you using, my A77 had no noise at 1600 and thats saying something. 

 

I want to get my hands on an A7ii. I am an astrophotographer and the video aspect has interested me over the years. 

I have the A7ii. ISO 1600 is about the max I can accept in term of noise. But it's still bad. I can send you the raw file if you want.

[Kamjam21xx]

43 minutes ago, Deli said:

I have the A7ii. ISO 1600 is about the max I can accept in term of noise. But it's still bad. I can send you the raw file if you want.

Im curious to see it. The A7sii has phenominal lowlight and you get very little grain. 

 

On top of that.. when you upload it in a format that interpolates between frames, any noise you do get is somewhat eliminated.

[artuc]

You guys are stuck in a photography mindset.

 

These sort of sensors are a big deal for CCTV.

 

It's fairly common there is no point slapping in an 8MP camera when it can't see anything at night time.

 

There are currently 2MP low light cameras out that can give use able footage 24/7, some look like dusk in the middle of a pitch black night.

 

Then you also don't use as much bandwidth, storage or NVR resources. Better to have solid 2MP footage than useless 8MP footage and some of these low light sensors are game changers so this sort of tech is huge for CCTV.

 

 

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11 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

Wait 1600 with no noise? What potato are you using, my A77 had no noise at 1600 and thats saying something. 

 

I want to get my hands on an A7ii. I am an astrophotographer and the video aspect has interested me over the years. 

I have to call bullshit on that.  Even higher end cameras have visible noise at ISO 100.  Maybe you can't see it, or maybe it's being processed out at the cost of other things like sharpness, but I guarantee you it's there.

[Kamjam21xx]

5 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I have to call bullshit on that.  Even higher end cameras have visible noise at ISO 100.  Maybe you can't see it, or maybe it's being processed out at the cost of other things like sharpness, but I guarantee you it's there.

A7sii and some ARRI cameras have basically no noise. I cant see it, even zoomed all the way in to a few pixels. 

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3 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

A7sii and some ARRI cameras have basically no noise. I cant see it, even zoomed all the way in to a few pixels. 

I'd love to see that.

[TechyBen]

18 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Regardless of how many pixels your camera might technically have, most people are probably dealing with ~6 or fewer useful MP anyway due to bad glass and/or bad post-processing, so tbh this isn't that far from being potentially very usable.

Also, theoretically more light = better signal = better image regardless. So most of the "more pixels" benefits will be matched by "better light/quality" when getting to ridiculous high MP counts... with the exception of post process zoom/high FPS video of cause.

[Kamjam21xx]

8 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I'd love to see that.

Okay, ARRI has a media server with unaltered shots from their cameras that you can download. Ill grab some and make a little video. 

 

Itll give me something to do.

What would be really cool, would be to look at the film from an IMAX camera and see if it has grain.

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4 minutes ago, Kamjam21xx said:

Okay, ARRI has a media server with unaltered shots from their cameras that you can download. Ill grab some and make a little video. 

 

Itll give me something to do.

What would be really cool, would be to look at the film from an IMAX camera and see if it has grain.

I mean the sony.  I'm not familiar with ARRI and can't speak to what some weird fancy stuff intended for scientific study or hollywood or something can do, but within the realm of "professional consumer" cameras (5D, D800, etc.) I know how they perform and if you look at the sky for example in any shot even at ISO 100, or 64 or whatever their base is, noise will be visible.

[Kamjam21xx]

37 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I mean the sony.  I'm not familiar with ARRI and can't speak to what some weird fancy stuff intended for scientific study or hollywood or something can do, but within the realm of "professional consumer" cameras (5D, D800, etc.) I know how they perform and if you look at the sky for example in any shot even at ISO 100, or 64 or whatever their base is, noise will be visible.

Well it depends on the conditions for the A7sii, and if youre recording on camera or to an external recorder. Youll get noise with any camera, but im talking about well lit and properly exposed shots with maybe a polarizer and ND filter. 

 

Comparing the A7sii to other prosumer cameras like the 5D markiii, the 5D is like tv static in comparison.

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Just now, Kamjam21xx said:

Well it depends on the conditions for the A7sii, and if youre recording on camera or to an external recorder. Youll get noise with any camera, but im talking about well lit and properly exposed shots with maybe a polarizer and ND filter. 

 

Comparing the A7sii to other prosumer cameras like the 5D markiii, the 5D is like tv static in comparison.

Oh, are you talking about video?  I was thinking photography this whole time

[Kamjam21xx]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Oh, are you talking about video?  I was thinking photography this whole time

Oh ya, especially shooting raw.

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Just now, Kamjam21xx said:

Oh ya, especially shooting raw.

Well I can't comment on video performance, but I'd imagine it must be similar since it's coming off the same sensor.  Maybe it just masks it better in motion... also it is going to be scaled down so much (even 4K is small compared to a 24 MP source) that it really wouldn't be noticeable in the final product, particularly after encoding to any watchable format.