Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[arnavvr]

50 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Love manual so much? Buy a classic / old car. The SMG found in a 2000's BMW is said to be able to shift gears 3 times faster than a human can, I'm not even going to talk about more modern gearboxes like DSG.

It's not about the speed, but about the level of driver involvement. 

[Monkey Dust]

30 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Love manual so much? Buy a classic / old car. The SMG found in a 2000's BMW is said to be able to shift gears 3 times faster than a human can, I'm not even going to talk about more modern gearboxes like DSG.

A super quick DSG box is totally the right choice for some cars, and some roads. But unless you're racing it's not all about speed, it about involvement. Involvement doesn't rule out paddle shift boxes, especially really fast stuff like modern Ferraris & Mclarens, and if you are chucking the car down a very twist road paddle shifters great, but it still isn't the most involving option.

 

And the early single clutch paddle shift boxes, such as the SMG, were rubbish on the road. A pig in traffic, monumental PITA to reverse, and less reliable than the manual. There is a reason the why the SMG E46 M3s, the F1 equipped F430's and 575M's and Selespeed Alfa 147/156 GTAs are worth a lot less now than their manual counterparts.       

[arnavvr]

3 hours ago, terrytek said:

Only chains in my area are Fuddruckers, in-n-out, five guys, and the habit. Tried 3 of the 4, still like in-n-out the best.

I did. It's just like getting a permit at any other age before 17.5. There's of course a test involved making sure you know the rules of the road, you can take either a paper or a computer test (i took the computer version) and then if you pass you get your permit and picture that day. I suggest looking at practice permit tests beforehand. Like I said, it's the same process if you were to get your permit at like 17 or 18 or any other age.

Ok, so I found that there are some online drivers ed materials that are only like 25 dollars. I'm going to see if I can complete the course before i turn 15.5 because I want to have this all sorted before school starts.

[Real_PhillBert]

58 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Love manual so much? Buy a classic / old car. The SMG found in a 2000's BMW is said to be able to shift gears 3 times faster than a human can, I'm not even going to talk about more modern gearboxes like DSG.

I'm not sure what your morning commute is like, but mine does not include any race tracks (  ). 

 

IMHO it's about your idea of fun. If your idea of fun is being the fastest guy at the track day, you're absolutely right, the modern DSG gearboxes are just about untouchable. But if you spend most of your time in the car commuting to work, a regular manual transmission will deliver more giggles IMHO. The feeling a perfectly executed heel-toe downshift is far greater than simply clicking a paddle. 

 

Both have their place. 

 

That said, both of my cars have three pedals, and I intend to keep it that way for as long as I can. 

 

Basically, what @arnavvr said. 

[terrytek]

17 minutes ago, arnavvr said:

Ok, so I found that there are some online drivers ed materials that are only like 25 dollars. I'm going to see if I can complete the course before i turn 15.5 because I want to have this all sorted before school starts.

The course for me took as little as a week to complete if you can remember a lot of it. Really all the DMV cares about is that you get an official certificate saying you have completed the course, that's all. Other than that, you can just practice all you want for the permit test. And a suggestion: make an appointment to see the DMV instead of walking in to take the test. Thank me later.

[Motifator]

41 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

And the early single clutch paddle shift boxes, such as the SMG, were rubbish on the road. A pig in traffic

Yet you speak about manual being more of a joy for you? Manual is a load of crap in traffic, consistently having to catch the friction point is nonsense at this time and date, especially if you're stuck in a traffic jam uphill.

If you care much about this so called "involvement", you would leave that 500 horsepower car in your garage and ride a bike...

there is a point to manual gearbox, yes, and it is in older cars. In fact, a sequential gearbox does nothing but slow you down. If Koenigsegg could have implemented the 1-speed gearbox that was supposed to let Regera go all the way from 0 to 300 whatever without gear shifts out of its concept, it would have been the perfect gearbox.

[Bananasplit_00]

anyone know some common ways that carb bikes get restricted for power? seems my GS500E is registered as choked down to 25KW from its original 33KW, so id like to unlock the extra KW  (A2 is up to 35KW btw)

 

seen something about holes and plates, i know my moped was an exhaust plug. not sure how id fix it if the carb has holes in it tbh but id assume the other things are just rip them out?

[Real_PhillBert]

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

Yet you speak about manual being more of a joy for you? Manual is a load of crap in traffic, consistently having to catch the friction point is nonsense at this time and date, especially if you're stuck in a traffic jam uphill.

As a guy who drives a manual transmission every day, I think this is a hugely over exaggerated issue. Sure it's a bit trickier when you're learning, but once you get it down you really dont even think about it anymore. 

 

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

If you care much about this so called "involvement", you would leave that 500 horsepower car in your garage and ride a bike...

Although my weekend fun car isnt 500HP, but about 375HP, I still have a couple bikes too. Variety is the spice of life my friend. 

 

BTW, I get to manually shift the motorcycles too...  

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

there is a point to manual gearbox, yes, and it is in older cars. In fact, a sequential gearbox does nothing but slow you down. If Koenigsegg could have implemented the 1-speed gearbox that was supposed to let Regera go all the way from 0 to 300 whatever without gear shifts out of its concept, it would have been the perfect gearbox.

Maybe I missed something, but I have never seen a street car with a sequential manual gearbox. 

 

A single speed gearbox is extremely limited in the scope of it's application, you and I and virtually everyone else on the planet would actually hate to have a single gear ratio in your daily car. We have multi-ratio transmissions for a very good reason.  

[bcredeur97]

1 hour ago, Motifator said:

Yet you speak about manual being more of a joy for you? Manual is a load of crap in traffic, consistently having to catch the friction point is nonsense at this time and date, especially if you're stuck in a traffic jam uphill.

If you care much about this so called "involvement", you would leave that 500 horsepower car in your garage and ride a bike...

there is a point to manual gearbox, yes, and it is in older cars. In fact, a sequential gearbox does nothing but slow you down. If Koenigsegg could have implemented the 1-speed gearbox that was supposed to let Regera go all the way from 0 to 300 whatever without gear shifts out of its concept, it would have been the perfect gearbox.

manual in traffic doesn't bother me. If you know how to work a clutch and have done so for at least 6 months. It's like second nature. It's like you become the car.

I enjoy rowing through the gears on a curvy road in my "slow" miata. It's sooooo fun. Bikes are neat but I rather not kill myself so quickly. I'm 10x better with car physics than bike physics anywho. i'd have to relearn sooo much

 

and for you last point -> I enjoy rowing through the gears. Nothing like making that perfectly rev-match heel toe too. It's soooooo satisfying.

 

[Motifator]

6 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

As a guy who drives a manual transmission every day, I think this is a hugely over exaggerated issue. Sure it's a bit trickier when you're learning, but once you get it down you really dont even think about it anymore. 

 

Although my weekend fun car isnt 500HP, but about 375HP, I still have a couple bikes too. Variety is the spice of life my friend. 

 

BTW, I get to manually shift the motorcycles too...  

Maybe I missed something, but I have never seen a street car with a sequential manual gearbox. 

 

A single speed gearbox is extremely limited in the scope of it's application, you and I and virtually everyone else on the planet would actually hate to have a single gear ratio in your daily car. We have multi-ratio transmissions for a very good reason.  

There are taxi drivers in where I live that drive manuals all day, and they're sick of it. I have taken my driver's license on a manual, haven't touched one ever since for good reasons.

I was talking about bicycles actually. That's what you should be sprinting if you're so much after "involvement".

Single speed doesn't mean single gear ratio, you can still have changes to that one gear. Saleen made this to their P85D. No, single speed gearboxes are not extremely limited in any way at all. They're much more convenient than a car swapping gears automatically or manually. You have them because big factories are keeping up the bandwagon on rehashing old crap over and over again. That's why Tesla, Mr. Koenigsegg and a few others are actually the only ones that worked on reinventing some things.

Yes, you did miss some things. There are street cars with sequential gearboxes, some for older 911s and such actually. But that wasn't what I was talking about. I was referring to a normal gearbox in general.

[RevoltTrain]

6 hours ago, PandaCopyRight said:

also was away for a bit .... 

a small pic dump

  Hide contents

 

Mainly went for music (Rock am Ring) but checked out some cars and parts of the track as well

Found Apex

 quite a nice lineup of cars they have  

also found that little guy ^

and this was parked there as well ^

^ McLaren: "Pssst kids wanna do a lap?" 

and visited this place

who would have know that Germany is full of these 

This is between apex and the track

and this is how the track was on day 1 (start finish straight pointing at T1 for those wondering)

and here is the back of the pits that are sadly empty  

 

You saw Avenged didn't you? 

[Monkey Dust]

50 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Yet you speak about manual being more of a joy for you? Manual is a load of crap in traffic, consistently having to catch the friction point is nonsense at this time and date, especially if you're stuck in a traffic jam uphill.

If you care much about this so called "involvement", you would leave that 500 horsepower car in your garage and ride a bike...

there is a point to manual gearbox, yes, and it is in older cars. In fact, a sequential gearbox does nothing but slow you down. If Koenigsegg could have implemented the 1-speed gearbox that was supposed to let Regera go all the way from 0 to 300 whatever without gear shifts out of its concept, it would have been the perfect gearbox.

I owned a single clutch paddle shift car, an Alfa with the Selespeed box, so I know how tricky they are in traffic. I've driven a SMG E46 M3, that was also a pig to drive slowly. The car decides when to engage the clutch, and how quickly. And trouble the older versions have is they get it wrong, almost all of the time when you need to creep. When you're driving them you have to learn how that particular car responds to be able to anticipate what it is going to do with the clutch, and then you need to relearn once the car has been serviced and the actuator has been recalibrated. Great on tight twisty road admittedly where you might struggle to find enough time to take your hand off the wheel to change down.

 

Whereas with a manual you have complete control over the clutch, you know when, and by how much, it is engaging by the feel through the pedal. I commute in Bristol, possibly the hilliest city in the UK, in a manual, and it is absolutely fine. Drive a manual car frequently and it's like second nature, not a hardship. It's driving an auto after years of manual driving, and pressing the brake pedal with both feet because you've gone for the non-existent clutch pedal that isn't there, that is alien, and more than a little embarrassing.

 

The single speed gear box will only work with electric motors and their linear torque, it wouldn't at all well with an internal combustion engine. But with an electric motor you've stripped all the drama, all the theatre, the noise, out of going fast so what's the point?  

[bcredeur97]

manual -> designed for Enjoyment. (Non-car people find this confusing)
auto -> good for high torque/power loads (Some of them anyway), basic use, some newer ones are pretty fast tho. Still lacks response of others however.

SMG/DSG/seq./anything else -> I want to go as fast as possible. In some cases maybe also be able to drive on the street too. but main goal is SPEED

Speed is fun. But it also gets you in trouble. Once it gets to a point i'd literally rather a slower car with a manual just for the fun of having a manual. Because I'm a car guy. I crave that. You may not understand. But some do.

[Real_PhillBert]

4 minutes ago, Motifator said:

There are taxi drivers in where I live that drive manuals all day, and they're sick of it. I have taken my driver's license on a manual, haven't touched one ever since for good reasons.

Lol. Ok.

 

5 minutes ago, Motifator said:

I was talking about bicycles actually. That's what you should be sprinting if you're so much after "involvement".

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the term "driving involvement" 

 

8 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Single speed doesn't mean single gear ratio, you can still have changes to that one gear.

Um. Yes, yes it does. I think you might be confusing Single speed with continuously variable transmissions which dont have any specific stepped gear ratios like conventional transmissions. 

 

10 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Saleen made this to their P85D. 

No, they didnt. Tesla's have a single gear ratio, saleen simply lowered that single ratio. This is possible since electric motors can deliver 100% of their torque at .1RPM, unlike ICE power plants. 

 

12 minutes ago, Motifator said:

No, single speed gearboxes are not extremely limited in any way at all. They're much more convenient than a car swapping gears automatically or manually. You have them because big factories are keeping up the bandwagon on rehashing old crap over and over again. That's why Tesla, Mr. Koenigsegg and a few others are actually the only ones that worked on reinventing some things.

Sorry, no. As explained already, tesla (and every other pure electric car) use a fixed ratio because of the way torque is delivered by electric motors.

 

Koenigsegg can do this because they use an electric motor to make up the difference, and they give exactly zero fucks about fuel economy or anyone's ability to drive the car to work every day. 

 

We have multi-ratio transmissions, not because of habit, but because we want both the ability to cruise comfortably and quietly on a freeway, and get good fuel economy, while simultaneously have the ability to drop a few gears and have some essence of throttle response. 

17 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Yes, you did miss some things. There are street cars with sequential gearboxes, some for older 911s and such actually. But that wasn't what I was talking about. I was referring to a normal gearbox in general.

Manual gearboxes =/= sequential manual gearboxes. There is actually a few very important physical differences between those two. 

[Motifator]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

I owned a single clutch paddle shift car, an Alfa with the Selespeed box, so I know how tricky they are in traffic. I've driven a SMG E46 M3, that was also a pig to drive slowly. The car decides when to engage the clutch, and how quickly. And trouble the older versions have is they get it wrong, almost all of the time when you need to creep. When you're driving them you have to learn how that particular car responds to be able to anticipate what it is going to do with the clutch, and then you need to relearn once the car has been serviced and the actuator has been recalibrated. Great on tight twisty road admittedly where you might struggle to find enough time to take your hand off the wheel to change down.

 

Whereas with a manual you have complete control over the clutch, you know when, and by how much, it is engaging by the feel through the pedal. I commute in Bristol, possibly the hilliest city in the UK, in a manual, and it is absolutely fine. Drive a manual car frequently and it's like second nature, not a hardship. It's driving an auto after years of manual driving, and pressing the brake pedal with both feet because you've gone for the non-existent clutch pedal that isn't there, that is alien, and more than a little embarrassing.

 

The single speed gear box will only work with electric motors and their linear torque, it wouldn't at all well with an internal combustion engine. But with an electric motor you've stripped all the drama, all the theatre, the noise, out of going fast so what's the point?  

Oh please, stop referring to old cars. Begin comparing a frigging manual transmission in a 911 GT on that video to an actual modern dual-clutch auto tranny, then we'll be talking.

Stop with that "I have full control with manual" bullcrap too, just because you have the control of the clutch, doesn't give you anything more over automatic except filling that pointless manual ego. You should know that modern good auto boxes to proper rev matching, come with paddle AND over the stick shifting, and so on.

Are you seriously asking what is the point in electric? You still hear wind noises and electric motor noise on some cars, which some people like (me included).

[Motifator]

2 minutes ago, Real_PhillBert said:

Lol. Ok.

 

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the term "driving involvement" 

 

Um. Yes, yes it does. I think you might be confusing Single speed with continuously variable transmissions which dont have any specific stepped gear ratios like conventional transmissions. 

 

No, they didnt. Tesla's have a single gear ratio, saleen simply lowered that single ratio. This is possible since electric motors can deliver 100% of their torque at .1RPM, unlike ICE power plants. 

 

Sorry, no. As explained already, tesla (and every other pure electric car) use a fixed ratio because of the way torque is delivered by electric motors.

 

Koenigsegg can do this because they use an electric motor to make up the difference, and they give exactly zero fucks about fuel economy or anyone's ability to drive the car to work every day. 

 

We have multi-ratio transmissions, not because of habit, but because we want both the ability to cruise comfortably and quietly on a freeway, and get good fuel economy, while simultaneously have the ability to drop a few gears and have some essence of throttle response. 

Manual gearboxes =/= sequential manual gearboxes. There is actually a few very important physical differences between those two. 

No, I understand it in the way I prefer. You and a few others are pushing that old ass manual agenda as if it offers more enjoyment over auto, which is argumentative and something I don't agree with.

Koenigsegg might not give fucks about fuel economy, but at least they're working on new stuff. VW and the likes just keep releasing old tech cars in new fashion.

Yes, you have 7-speed and higher gearboxes for fuel economy and throttle response (though not too well on every car, needing throttle boxes on some). Without considering fuel economy, a Turbo 400 with a load of power could make sense.

I know what a manual gearbox is and what a sequential manual or auto gearbox is. The ones used on NASCAR and such.

[PandaCopyRight]

46 minutes ago, RevoltTrain said:

You saw Avenged didn't you? 

me and not see A7X ? ... yes i saw them  

[Monkey Dust]

2 minutes ago, Motifator said:

Oh please, stop referring to old cars. Begin comparing a frigging manual transmission in a 911 GT on that video to an actual modern dual-clutch auto tranny, then we'll be talking.

Stop with that "I have full control with manual" bullcrap too, just because you have the control of the clutch, doesn't give you anything more over automatic except filling that pointless manual ego. You should know that modern good auto boxes to proper rev matching, come with paddle AND over the stick shifting, and so on.

Are you seriously asking what is the point in electric? You still hear wind noises and electric motor noise on some cars, which some people like (me included).

You first brought up the early 2000's BMW SMG box, I just ran with it. I don't deny DSGs have their place, but all but the fastest of cars, most challenging of cars, manuals are more fun. A PDK GT3 is faster, the point of the video is that despite being slower the manual is more fun. I guess it comes down to if you just want to talk numbers at whoever will listen, or if you want to take the car out on a quiet Sunday morning when the roads are empty for a blast just for the hell of it.

 

And you have so much more control with a manual, you can change in to what ever gear you want you can engage and disengage the clutch as the mood takes you, the car has no power of veto. Shifting with the stick in an auto is in no way comparable, the car can refuse to do what you tell it, it can change gear when you don't tell it too (such as changing up at the redline instead of letting you hold it against the limiter) and it's still just pressing buttons, there is no mechanical connection to the box. On a good manual you can tell it's oil is up to temperature by the resistance of the gear changes easing, an auto can never give you that.

 

I'm not arguing there is no point in electric, if you just need a something to get you around a city they make a lot of sense, or between cities in the case of Teslas. But electric supercars really not convinced. The finest supercars are like art, it is the emotions they evoke that make them special. Electric cars may be very capable, but they don't do excitement.  

[terrytek]

41 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

manual -> designed for Enjoyment. (Non-car people find this confusing)
auto -> good for high torque/power loads (Some of them anyway), basic use, some newer ones are pretty fast tho. Still lacks response of others however.

SMG/DSG/seq./anything else -> I want to go as fast as possible. In some cases maybe also be able to drive on the street too. but main goal is SPEED

Speed is fun. But it also gets you in trouble. Once it gets to a point i'd literally rather a slower car with a manual just for the fun of having a manual. Because I'm a car guy. I crave that. You may not understand. But some do.

That's my mindset too. I drove an automatic everyday for about 6 or so months, then I tried manual for like 2 days, i've had more fun in those 2 days than in those 6 months prior. This sounds weird, but I don't like when the car's doing ALL the work getting up to speed; i like to get involved.

[Motifator]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Dust said:

You first brought up the early 2000's BMW SMG box, I just ran with it. I don't deny DSGs have their place, but all but the fastest of cars, most challenging of cars, manuals are more fun. A PDK GT3 is faster, the point of the video is that despite being slower the manual is more fun. I guess it comes down to if you just want to talk numbers at whoever will listen, or if you want to take the car out on a quiet Sunday morning when the roads are empty for a blast just for the hell of it.

 

And you have so much more control with a manual, you can change in to what ever gear you want you can engage and disengage the clutch as the mood takes you, the car has no power of veto. Shifting with the stick in an auto is in no way comparable, the car can refuse to do what you tell it, it can change gear when you don't tell it too (such as changing up at the redline instead of letting you hold it against the limiter) and it's still just pressing buttons, there is no mechanical connection to the box. On a good manual you can tell it's oil is up to temperature by the resistance of the gear changes easing, an auto can never give you that.

 

I'm not arguing there is no point in electric, if you just need a something to get you around a city they make a lot of sense, or between cities in the case of Teslas. But electric supercars really not convinced. The finest supercars are like art, it is the emotions they evoke that make them special. Electric cars may be very capable, but they don't do excitement.  

No, it's only YOUR opinion that manuals are more fun. You need to stop spoon feeding your opinion into mine, it's not more fun to me. I'm not going to listen to you as I've blasted a manual car and the only fun was in gear shifts when nailing. For the whole rest of it, it was much more of an ass to drive. I drove for prolonged periods like 2 hours on that car when I was getting my driver's license, I'd much rather take an auto and go full throttle at that.

Yeah yeah, more control... I keep hearing that BS, the car refuses only because it knows the right revolutions of when the gears need to be changed. It doesn't let you go over the redline like an idiot, or downshift around redline and break your gearbox... love mechanical connection? How about take a steam car and drive that around. More mechanical connection for you. This is such a silly argument, you're basically going against every technological advancement as far as a transmission goes.

Yes, you ARE arguing against EVs. Electric vehicles don't do excitement? That is one hell of a nonsensical thing to say. A Rimac doesn't convince you? You need to burn 40 liters for excitement? How pointless are we getting here?

[AlwaysFSX]

Holy shit even I don't hate on manuals this much.

[RevoltTrain]

Today is off to a good start ?

[Motifator]

Just now, AlwaysFSX said:

Holy shit even I don't hate on manuals this much.

I do hate seeing manuals on new cars. I see no point in it. However, on a 90's car, I can get it as the Getrags and the likes of those times giving more speed to the cars than the early iterations of auto, like first ZFs, etc.

The guy also said he sometimes presses both the brake and the throttle at the same time on an auto, probably because he drives a manual. That's such a noobish thing to do. You need to keep your left leg over the rest area on the left while driving an auto...

[RevoltTrain]

https://i.imgur.com/eyZHfqR.gifv

[YourNewPalAlex]

hell yeah!!! people like cars on this forum??!?!? damn!