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Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

techswede
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26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Don't lump me in with them. I'm an enthusiast of mechanic design, be it engines, weaponry, or productive machinery. Not a guy with a wrench that reads the marketing garbage AFE/insert other "enthusiast" brand that can't legally warranty half of their products.

 

I fail to see a correlation between people screeching variations of "forced induction is more efficient!!! Reclaimed energy!!!" and anything I've said.

If you can't be civil. Please leave

 

Edit. That goes for everyone in the thread

16 hours ago, IPD said:

I mean, if you don't understand the differences in battery voltage architecture (eg. 800v on the Nevera; 400v on the Leaf); nor the differences in motors (eg. 478hp motor *4 on the Nevera; 215hp motor *1 on the Leaf); nor the differences in range, etc--then sure.  ALL EV's look the same.

#1, the Leaf is behind the curve, still using passively cooled batteries.

But yeah, I get that, but the C8 isn't exactly the same kind of vehicle as a Leaf. Or a Nevera. It is more on the same tier with the Taycan, Which has 2 motors sure, but AWD, and is very quiet. Plus, normal cars have differences in range, except the difference is 500 mi vs 700 mi, not 270 mi and then an hour long charge vs 340 mi and a 45 min charge. 

In terms of no EVs in general, they have so many things wrong with them that it isn't funny. Let's say you want to help the environment. 

#1. I live in Indiana, which gets its electricity from coal. 

#2. The materials in a battery are produced by child labor (namely Cobalt, among others), and huge strip mines that ruin the environment far more than an ICE. 

#3. A used Tesla P90D will cost you $20,000, and then a new battery that Tesla recommends (because your vehicle no longer works as a result of a bad cell, to prevent kaboom) costs $20,000. Reduce Reuse Recycle in that order. You can't reuse the vehicle, as it costs just as much to fix the thing as it is worth. That is generally the point at which people get a new vehicle. ICE cars can last millions of miles (Lexus LS400, Cummins RAM, basically any Toyota/Honda), whereas in an electric vehicle you might get 200K if you live in a cooler area (more damage occurs at higher temperatures, hence the active cooling of the battery).

#4. Fast charging is being promoted heavily as a counter to the "I can fill my gas tank in 2 minutes, while it takes you 2 hours" argument. Except faster charging means more wear on your battery. Something you can test today. My iPhone SE (2nd Gen)'s battery is at 90% capacity (in theory, it is more like 75%) because initially I used 30W chargers to charge the thing. That causes your battery to fail a lot faster. So in order to "fill your tank" you have to damage your vehicle, got it. And if you want to "fill your tank" in a reasonable time frame, you have to damage your battery more. And that is assuming that your charging station supports it, and doesn't cost more than a tank of gas.

Or you can get an old $2000 beater Civic, that will sip on gas, and work for another 400K. Keeping all of the manufacturing waste of a new car out of the environment. If you care about the environment, get a Honda Insight. Or a Prius. Because at least the batteries are only 4k-7k, not 20k.

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10 hours ago, Bitter said:

And straight pipe V8's sound terrible to me.

Try no pipe lol. When I was doing my internship, someone brought their Toyota Tundra with the 4.7L V8 in because the cats got stolen. the guys were taking bets on what fancy exhaust it had (it was making that balloon sounding noise), and it literally had nothing lol

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14 hours ago, IPD said:

I'm of the mindset that every degree of heat given off, ever decibel emitted--is energy that is not being applied to rotating the tires.  Nor do I think that a driving experience is "disconnected" and "boring" because you aren't shifting gears (EV's generally only have 1 gear).

 

It's about the dance between feeling the grip your tires will provide and your own application of control.  When will you exceed skidpad for the ambient conditions?  At what point will the brakes lock the tires up?  And can you drive well enough to get the vehicle "warmed up" to where the brakes and tires are all operating in their ideal heat band for performance (ala F1)?

 

P.S.

I would much rather drive a single-speed electric with no ABS, no traction control and no stability control--than the most robust internal-combustion engine sports car with all of those things enabled.  Far more engaging.

I'm mixed on the shifting. I don't think you need a manual, but I like having the control of when I shift, definitely adds to the feeling. I drive a manual btw, which is the standard over here. My next car will very likely be an automatic, because we have loads of traffic here, and in traffic a manual is no fun.

 

I fully agree that electric cars can absolutely be fun.

 

Personally for me sound is a thing, it doesn't need to be super loud or whatever, but I can absolutely appreciate a good sounding car, and I've always had a thing for the sound of muscle cars.

 

As for those systems, well that applies to all cars, the less stuff taking over your control over the car, the more fun it becomes.

6 hours ago, DarkSwordsman said:

 

 

  Hide contents

PXL_20220519_214412067.thumb.jpg.ff6e360b03ed42fbb6829d7c5628ffc4.jpgPXL_20220519_214728433.thumb.jpg.8faa1c8164f758302f2c4c17f279be58.jpg

 

Awesome colour, and gotta love an NA. If I'd properly fit in there, I would to get one.

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5 hours ago, DANK_AS_gay said:

#1, the Leaf is behind the curve, still using passively cooled batteries.

But yeah, I get that, but the C8 isn't exactly the same kind of vehicle as a Leaf. Or a Nevera. It is more on the same tier with the Taycan, Which has 2 motors sure, but AWD, and is very quiet. Plus, normal cars have differences in range, except the difference is 500 mi vs 700 mi, not 270 mi and then an hour long charge vs 340 mi and a 45 min charge. 

In terms of no EVs in general, they have so many things wrong with them that it isn't funny. Let's say you want to help the environment. 

#1. I live in Indiana, which gets its electricity from coal. 

#2. The materials in a battery are produced by child labor (namely Cobalt, among others), and huge strip mines that ruin the environment far more than an ICE. 

#3. A used Tesla P90D will cost you $20,000, and then a new battery that Tesla recommends (because your vehicle no longer works as a result of a bad cell, to prevent kaboom) costs $20,000. Reduce Reuse Recycle in that order. You can't reuse the vehicle, as it costs just as much to fix the thing as it is worth. That is generally the point at which people get a new vehicle. ICE cars can last millions of miles (Lexus LS400, Cummins RAM, basically any Toyota/Honda), whereas in an electric vehicle you might get 200K if you live in a cooler area (more damage occurs at higher temperatures, hence the active cooling of the battery).

#4. Fast charging is being promoted heavily as a counter to the "I can fill my gas tank in 2 minutes, while it takes you 2 hours" argument. Except faster charging means more wear on your battery. Something you can test today. My iPhone SE (2nd Gen)'s battery is at 90% capacity (in theory, it is more like 75%) because initially I used 30W chargers to charge the thing. That causes your battery to fail a lot faster. So in order to "fill your tank" you have to damage your vehicle, got it. And if you want to "fill your tank" in a reasonable time frame, you have to damage your battery more. And that is assuming that your charging station supports it, and doesn't cost more than a tank of gas.

Or you can get an old $2000 beater Civic, that will sip on gas, and work for another 400K. Keeping all of the manufacturing waste of a new car out of the environment. If you care about the environment, get a Honda Insight. Or a Prius. Because at least the batteries are only 4k-7k, not 20k.

Heat is the #1 killer of batteries.  It's not fast charging.  It's not even keeping it at 100% and using it down to 0% on a regular basis (although that doesn't help).  The biggest thing is heat.

 

I'm well aware that the USA has a fetish for fossil-fuel energy.  I was reminded of that every time I was driving past Noblesville.  I don't fault EV's or the companies that make them--for the abject dearth of alternate energy sources in the USA.  Nuclear should be at least 100% more of a presence than it is now.  And the NIMBY's have also stopped offshore wind farms, solar farm, and a host of other options that would help eliminate fossil fuels.  So the USA keeps ticking by at 60% energy production from fossil fuels.  Blame the idiots in charge and the people who keep re-electing them.

 

p.s.

Again, I don't give a rip about fast-charging.  I don't give a rip about interstate travel on EV.  All I want is a 100-150 mile range on an electric motorcycle that I can use to get to and from work--and charge only on a level 2 charger in my garage overnight.  That would be one less commuter putting CO2 in the atmosphere.  The fact that this isn't a sub-10k option in the USA...just underscores how dreadfully adrift the USA is in this regard.

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Question to those of you from the US, and more specifically Michigan. 

 

I am finding very mixed results on this topic so I wanted some clarification. I am not 18 and have a level 2 GDL (Graduated Drivers License). Can I still pull a trailer if I'm not 18? I see a lot of stuff about laws for class R endorsements and CDL's but not anthing about driving with a smaller trailer as a minor. 

If any of y'all know it'd be very much appreciated cause I just wanna pull my boat trailer and don't know if I can do so legally. 

I'm usually as lost as you are

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9 minutes ago, BrandonT.05 said:

Question to those of you from the US, and more specifically Michigan. 

 

I am finding very mixed results on this topic so I wanted some clarification. I am not 18 and have a level 2 GDL (Graduated Drivers License). Can I still pull a trailer if I'm not 18? I see a lot of stuff about laws for class R endorsements and CDL's but not anthing about driving with a smaller trailer as a minor. 

If any of y'all know it'd be very much appreciated cause I just wanna pull my boat trailer and don't know if I can do so legally. 

Best thing would be to stop by or call the non emergency for your local police department to get clarification or call the non emergency number for a state trooper lodge. They might need to look it up and call you back, but they'll know because that's their job.

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9 hours ago, Bitter said:

Best thing would be to stop by or call the non emergency for your local police department to get clarification or call the non emergency number for a state trooper lodge. They might need to look it up and call you back, but they'll know because that's their job.

Or your state's DOT, they should absolutely know the specifics of this question.

.

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On 5/26/2022 at 1:58 PM, IPD said:

Heat is the #1 killer of batteries.  It's not fast charging.  It's not even keeping it at 100% and using it down to 0% on a regular basis (although that doesn't help).  The biggest thing is heat.

 

I'm well aware that the USA has a fetish for fossil-fuel energy.  I was reminded of that every time I was driving past Noblesville.  I don't fault EV's or the companies that make them--for the abject dearth of alternate energy sources in the USA.  Nuclear should be at least 100% more of a presence than it is now.  And the NIMBY's have also stopped offshore wind farms, solar farm, and a host of other options that would help eliminate fossil fuels.  So the USA keeps ticking by at 60% energy production from fossil fuels.  Blame the idiots in charge and the people who keep re-electing them.

 

p.s.

Again, I don't give a rip about fast-charging.  I don't give a rip about interstate travel on EV.  All I want is a 100-150 mile range on an electric motorcycle that I can use to get to and from work--and charge only on a level 2 charger in my garage overnight.  That would be one less commuter putting CO2 in the atmosphere.  The fact that this isn't a sub-10k option in the USA...just underscores how dreadfully adrift the USA is in this regard.

Man I really feel like EV’s have grown in other countries because it makes more sense in a lot of those areas especially when fuel is incredibly expensive, it just kinda naturally creates EV demand.

 

What people forget is the US has a huge population that lives outside of large cities with long commutes and we’ve also enjoyed pretty cheap fuel for a long time compared to the rest of the world. It’s really only somewhat expensive in California and even that is less than many other places in the world. And it’s only pricy there because their fuel taxes are ridiculous 

 

So to many Americans EV’s have made little to no economic sense. You can tell people all day long that it’s better for the environment, but that doesn’t mean people will spend absurd amounts of money just because it’s better. People are not rich, most people are bad with finances or living paycheck to paycheck, and they are just trying to get to work cost effectively.
 

Things are changing though, EV’s in the US are gradually starting to make more sense. It will happen naturally, give it time. (I’m all for natural progression! Better technology always wins out because it makes more sense in the long run). I do think government forcing something to happen is inefficient and can create issues especially when things aren’t well thought out because of it.
 

also trust me you don’t want to commute 40 miles by motorcycle on garbage Louisiana roads when it’s 94F outside with 90% humidity and then it starts pouring down raining for no reason in the afternoon and the roads are filled with idiots who think you’re invisible 

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6 hours ago, bcredeur97 said:

Man I really feel like EV’s have grown in other countries because it makes more sense in a lot of those areas especially when fuel is incredibly expensive, it just kinda naturally creates EV demand.

 

What people forget is the US has a huge population that lives outside of large cities with long commutes and we’ve also enjoyed pretty cheap fuel for a long time compared to the rest of the world. It’s really only somewhat expensive in California and even that is less than many other places in the world. And it’s only pricy there because their fuel taxes are ridiculous 

 

So to many Americans EV’s have made little to no economic sense. You can tell people all day long that it’s better for the environment, but that doesn’t mean people will spend absurd amounts of money just because it’s better. People are not rich, most people are bad with finances or living paycheck to paycheck, and they are just trying to get to work cost effectively.
 

Things are changing though, EV’s in the US are gradually starting to make more sense. It will happen naturally, give it time. (I’m all for natural progression! Better technology always wins out because it makes more sense in the long run). I do think government forcing something to happen is inefficient and can create issues especially when things aren’t well thought out because of it.
 

also trust me you don’t want to commute 40 miles by motorcycle on garbage Louisiana roads when it’s 94F outside with 90% humidity and then it starts pouring down raining for no reason in the afternoon and the roads are filled with idiots who think you’re invisible 

You're not the prototypical case for someone who would be using an electric motorcycle for commute.  And 40 miles is a LONG commute for a lot of people--myself included.  If I were still commuting an hour to work each way--like I used to--I wouldn't consider a motorcycle for it either...even if it wasn't an EV. 

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On 6/2/2022 at 8:33 AM, BrandonT.05 said:

Question to those of you from the US, and more specifically Michigan. 

 

I am finding very mixed results on this topic so I wanted some clarification. I am not 18 and have a level 2 GDL (Graduated Drivers License). Can I still pull a trailer if I'm not 18? I see a lot of stuff about laws for class R endorsements and CDL's but not anthing about driving with a smaller trailer as a minor. 

If any of y'all know it'd be very much appreciated cause I just wanna pull my boat trailer and don't know if I can do so legally. 

911 dispatcher here, call your local non emergent number and ask to speak to an officer, we cant give legal advice

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I'm curious as to everyone's opinion on the new GR Corolla. It's the most recent entry to the enthusiast hot-hatch catalogue, and sports a very interesting powertrain (learn more about that here). Much remains the same by comparison to the GR Yaris, but the parts that differ are a bit of an eyesore.

 

For me, it's the four doors that ruin the styling of the GR Corolla. If they cut out the back doors, Toyota could shorten the wheelbase another foot at least. That'd also give Toyota more room to fit their aggressive fender bulge, otherwise carrying onto the rear doors.

 

1280.thumb.jpg.18beb1243e38a84407aca5fc2e5c41de.jpg

 

The convenience factor of having back seats is notable, but less-so in a performance vehicle. At least, to me. A two door hatch with foldable bench seats in the rear would've been sufficient. Although, I'm sure they have some sort of poll capable of countering that argument. Hence why the GR Yaris exists, and this is just an uglier sibling of that.

 

795765236_Toyota_GR_Yaris_(XP21)__f_03052021.thumb.jpg.c5f2c34ae012e08de5b6b78adb241d19.jpg

 

In addition, Toyota has now announced a new limited production variant of the GR Corolla. This version removes the rear seats to make way for additional chassis bracing, but keeps the rear doors. They're calling this abomination, the Morizo Edition.

Personally, I like the GR Yaris. The Corolla variant wouldn't be so bad either if the design stayed more relevant. Mostly, I'm just upset about the useless slab being plastered to the rear doors.

 

998379759_maxresdefault(1).jpg.4c43be7e49859101a3b6a7b88a5813b7.jpg

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4 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

The convenience factor of having back seats is notable, but less-so in a performance vehicle. At least, to me. A two door hatch with foldable bench seats in the rear would've been sufficient.

I joke about having to sawzall @PandaCopyRight's legs in order for him to fit in a vehicle but this idea would probably mean everyone would have to in order to sit in that backseat if they followed your suggestion?

.

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32 minutes ago, AlwaysFSX said:

I joke about having to sawzall @PandaCopyRight's legs in order for him to fit in a vehicle but this idea would probably mean everyone would have to in order to sit in that backseat if they followed your suggestion?

Quite possibly. But then again, I don't think I've ever stumbled across a performance hot-hatch, coupe, or even sedan with sufficient legroom in the back seats. Even an Impreza or Evo is too cramped to fit full-sized adults front-to-back. My suggestion was at that point, why have them at all? Or at least, why pump so many resources into their design work if they still aren't sufficient for most people?

 

They were made with the Japanese market in mind I suppose, and they're not traditionally large people. I guess I partially answered my own question there, but I still don't like the ugly slab the plastered to the rear doors. Lol.

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If you think back seats are useless in a 4 door 'hot hatch' then you should see back seats in a sportsy coupe! My Celica can fit exactly 0 American adults of normal size in the back seat, you must be under 5'6" to fit and nearer to 5' to fit with any comfort.

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Not alot to say here......
Good luck.

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7 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

Quite possibly. But then again, I don't think I've ever stumbled across a performance hot-hatch, coupe, or even sedan with sufficient legroom in the back seats. Even an Impreza or Evo is too cramped to fit full-sized adults front-to-back. My suggestion was at that point, why have them at all? Or at least, why pump so many resources into their design work if they still aren't sufficient for most people?

 

They were made with the Japanese market in mind I suppose, and they're not traditionally large people. I guess I partially answered my own question there, but I still don't like the ugly slab the plastered to the rear doors. Lol.

Maybe the hot hatch segment is just kinda..stupidly designed.

.

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1 hour ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Maybe the hot hatch segment is just kinda..stupidly designed.

Imagine expecting small cars to have vast quantities of interior space

Needs money for car parts :P

 

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14 hours ago, OfficialTechSpace said:

I'm curious as to everyone's opinion on the new GR Corolla. It's the most recent entry to the enthusiast hot-hatch catalogue, and sports a very interesting powertrain (learn more about that here). Much remains the same by comparison to the GR Yaris, but the parts that differ are a bit of an eyesore.

 

For me, it's the four doors that ruin the styling of the GR Corolla. If they cut out the back doors, Toyota could shorten the wheelbase another foot at least. That'd also give Toyota more room to fit their aggressive fender bulge, otherwise carrying onto the rear doors.

 

1280.thumb.jpg.18beb1243e38a84407aca5fc2e5c41de.jpg

 

The convenience factor of having back seats is notable, but less-so in a performance vehicle. At least, to me. A two door hatch with foldable bench seats in the rear would've been sufficient. Although, I'm sure they have some sort of poll capable of countering that argument. Hence why the GR Yaris exists, and this is just an uglier sibling of that.

 

795765236_Toyota_GR_Yaris_(XP21)__f_03052021.thumb.jpg.c5f2c34ae012e08de5b6b78adb241d19.jpg

 

In addition, Toyota has now announced a new limited production variant of the GR Corolla. This version removes the rear seats to make way for additional chassis bracing, but keeps the rear doors. They're calling this abomination, the Morizo Edition.

Personally, I like the GR Yaris. The Corolla variant wouldn't be so bad either if the design stayed more relevant. Mostly, I'm just upset about the useless slab being plastered to the rear doors.

 

998379759_maxresdefault(1).jpg.4c43be7e49859101a3b6a7b88a5813b7.jpg

Speaking of hot hatches....

 

I would rather have the IQ back and with 300hp.  I also want VW to bring an AWD turbo Scirocco to the states--because F the golf.

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49 minutes ago, iDeFecZx said:

Imagine expecting small cars to have vast quantities of interior space

Well Isuzu had it figured out with the VehiCROSS.  They didn't do a great job on the seat-rail-sliding access to the back seats, but there was plenty of back-seat room.  And the fold-flat, fold-forward seats in the back allowed for a HUGE amount of cargo to be hauled.

 

And I will remind everyone that the GR Yaris wheelbase is 100.8"--and the VehiCROSS wheelbase is 91.5".

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3 hours ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Maybe the hot hatch segment is just kinda..stupidly designed.

This is why I bought a realllly big one /s 

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1 hour ago, IPD said:

Well Isuzu had it figured out with the VehiCROSS.  They didn't do a great job on the seat-rail-sliding access to the back seats, but there was plenty of back-seat room.  And the fold-flat, fold-forward seats in the back allowed for a HUGE amount of cargo to be hauled.

 

And I will remind everyone that the GR Yaris wheelbase is 100.8"--and the VehiCROSS wheelbase is 91.5".

There are ways to maximize space in small cars, look at older kei cars for example. 
 

the problem is it makes them less safe lol 

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1 hour ago, IPD said:

Well Isuzu had it figured out with the VehiCROSS.  They didn't do a great job on the seat-rail-sliding access to the back seats, but there was plenty of back-seat room.  And the fold-flat, fold-forward seats in the back allowed for a HUGE amount of cargo to be hauled.

 

And I will remind everyone that the GR Yaris wheelbase is 100.8"--and the VehiCROSS wheelbase is 91.5".

I reckon the yaris would fair better in a crash with a vehicross ngl

Needs money for car parts :P

 

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2 hours ago, iDeFecZx said:

Imagine expecting small cars to have vast quantities of interior space

Idk where I mentioned vast

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As a hot-hatch owner, the Corolla GR is one of the only interesting cars on the market right now, but it's already a limited production. From my experience anything that's not an overlyproduced truck or crossover SUV right now has either really long wait times (1-2 years) or a five digit markup. 

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