Epic BURN By Mom

[Master Disaster]

4 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

Epic could have just filed to have the video taken down and be done with it. Suing for monetary compensation is whats going to get them burned in court.

The lawyer Mom Is correct and Epic is in the wrong here with how this went down.

 

If Epic had done its due diligence :roll_eyes: the they would have filed only to take down the videos with-out asking for an obvious (non) loss of profit. How they figured they would get monetary gain out of this would only be that they gambled that the kid had gullible/ignorant parents and lost hard on that gamble.

 

*edit

I in no way am defending the child's actions, but from a legal standpoint Epic is wrong in it actions.

 

Sorry buddy but Leonard French covered this last week and he disagrees. Epic have done nothing wrong under Delaware law and thanks to moms letter the kid is likely to lose in court.

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I'm surprised his has taken so long to reach mainstream, everyone's favourite lawyer covered this last week.

 

The important things, a minor can enter a legal contract without parents permission, suing a child is probably OK, the kid is guilty of what he's being accused and his mom effectively handed the prosecutors a signed confession.

 

Oh and as for them doxxing him? Yeah, no. They're suing him, his name will be fully available on public records because of this fact and apparently him being a minor doesn't change anything under Delaware law.

 

This folks is why you don't go writing a legal letter without running it by a real lawyer first.

 

I was thinking about this this afternoon,  Funny because one of my thoughts was that this boys mum had effectively given the courts a signed document stating she is now aware of her sons activities with the game and would this open her up to litigation too?

 

Anyway, my initial opinion still stands, Regardless of how much of a cunt this twit seems to be,  suing a child for more than corrective actions is abhorrent.   They shouldn't need to run a family through the courts like this in order to prove CR infringement.  In fact all they need to do is request the judge to formally make it a court order that the child does not play or stream their content again. 

[8uhbbhu8]

OMG this is absolutely hilarious! these game devs I think are going to loose. 

[Bcat00]

23 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

In this case I personally believe banning and having his videos pulled down is enough.  Private companies have no right to fine anyone for anything.  You need government granted authority for that.

This whole thing more or less had to do with Youtube's policy.

The kid counter-motioned when his video was asked to be taken down and the youtube policy for the game company was either to drop the claim or file a lawsuit.

Since the company likely didn't know the kid's age at the time, they went ahead with the lawsuit.

[Uzume]

Apples never fall far from the tree.

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, 8uhbbhu8 said:

OMG this is absolutely hilarious! these game devs I think are going to loose. 

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but once again....

 

A real serving lawyer has read through the case notes and moms letter and he disagrees, Epic are likely going to win the case if it goes ahead.

 

On the subject of a dismissal, it's impossible to say what the judge will do. The judge might decide suing a 14 year old is a bit much and throw it out, then again he might decide the kid needs teaching a lesson and proceed. It's not a good idea to second guess a judge but if the case does go ahead then moms letter is basically a signed confession.

[Dylanc1500]

Maybe it's just me being raised in a southern household, but if my mother had caught me using his language and acting the way he is (the doing what is known to be wrong, holding myself in that manner and possibly affecting not just my own, but my mothers future as well) I would be more scared of my mother than anything any business could do.

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, Bcat00 said:

This whole thing more or less had to do with Youtube's policy.

The kid counter-motioned when his video was asked to be taken down and the youtube policy for the game company was either to drop the claim or file a lawsuit.

Since the company likely didn't know the kid's age at the time, they went ahead with the lawsuit.

My post was in response to someone who suggested a private company should be able to fine people.

[Hugh_Mungus]

@Rain7 What happened is the DMCA'ed his video. The kid not knowing the consequences of his actions countered the DMCA. EPIC is left with No CHOICE to sue him BECAUSE if they don't they COULD lose the rights to their Game. However this lawsuit is wrong And I will never buy a game made by EPIC Games or EA.

 

When the lawyer or Sherif legally Served this kid the papers they had to go tell EPIC games Lawyers that the kid is a minor. high change the case will the thrown out because he is 14 or they could go through with it and his parents will be on the hook for what ever the damages are determined to be.

 

The kids mom said that they demanded what the ad revenue was for the video. mom says that it is $0. if any thing it is unlikely Epic would make any money in damages and the kids parents could be on the hook for lawyers fees which would be the largest amount.

[SansVarnic]

19 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Sorry buddy but Leonard French

It doesnt matter if he disagrees with me, it is still wrong in taking legal action of this type against a minor it is not right. I have no idea who Leonard French is and frankly dont care. I care more about the ethics behind this.

The kid did wrong I wont deny that and action should be taken but not in this manner especial if what is in the letter is true. There are plenty of other options and actions can be taken than outright suing a minor just to make him a scapegoat.

[ItsMitch]

16 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

The kid did wrong I wont deny that and action should be taken but not in this manner especial if what is in the letter is true. There are plenty of other options and actions can be taken than outright suing a minor just to make him a scapegoat.

Disagree, Epic NEEDS to take him to court to number 1, protect their property (YouTube DMCA REQUIRES YOU TO TAKE TO COURT OR VID GOES BACK UP) he violated the EULA and went on to release personal information of a in-house attorney's of Epic Games. He's not a scapegoat at all, Epic has done all it's required things to protect their property. “This particular lawsuit arose as a result of the defendant filing a DMCA counterclaim to a takedown notice on a YouTube video that exposed and promoted Fortnite Battle Royale cheats and exploits”, Epic says in a statement given to Kotaku. “Under these circumstances, the law requires that we file suit or drop the claim. Sue the kid, he obviously shows zero remorse for what he's done. Fuck people like this. 

[SansVarnic]

7 minutes ago, SC2Mitch said:

Disagree, Epic NEEDS to take him to court to number 1, protect their property (YouTube DMCA REQUIRES YOU TO TAKE TO COURT OR VID GOES BACK UP) he violated the EULA and went on to release personal information of a in-house attorney's of Epic Games. He's not a scapegoat at all, Epic has done all it's required things to protect their property. “This particular lawsuit arose as a result of the defendant filing a DMCA counterclaim to a takedown notice on a YouTube video that exposed and promoted Fortnite Battle Royale cheats and exploits”, Epic says in a statement given to Kotaku. “Under these circumstances, the law requires that we file suit or drop the claim. Sue the kid, he obviously shows zero remorse for what he's done. Fuck people like this. 

As I said in my first reply;

On 11/28/2017 at 8:23 PM, SansVarnic said:

If Epic had done its due diligence :roll_eyes: the they would have filed only to take down the videos with-out asking for an obvious (non) loss of profit.

 

Now I am mot looking for debate/argument here, I just posted my opinion on the issue. I will continue to stand by it as it is only my opinion.

[ItsMitch]

4 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

As I said in my first reply;

 

IF Epic did its due diligence; they don't have to nor should they not ask for compensation, he did this repeatedly, 10+ times and laughed it away then filed a counterclaim. Also, you can't seriously claim that Epic is doing wrong in its actions, they have the right to do this. 

 

Also your opinion is your opinion, just providing my 2 cents. 

[Guest]

On 11/28/2017 at 4:02 AM, JuztBe said:

<Snipped>

The like to dislike ratio is just amazing (Just go through any of his recent videos, and those titles/descriptions), how/why does he still continue posting.

On 11/28/2017 at 4:41 AM, apm said:

they already banned him 9 times and they tried to take down the video, but the kid countered it. 

what else can they do?

I gotta say he sure is persistent.

[GDRRiley]

On 11/28/2017 at 1:26 AM, Sfekke said:

My stance on cheating/modding :

cheating and modding are in 2 different area. Most game makers understand that mods can happen and are ok with it.

most multiplayer games hate cheaters but will accept mods. 

[Master Disaster]

4 hours ago, SansVarnic said:

It doesnt matter if he disagrees with me, it is still wrong in taking legal action of this type against a minor it is not right. I have no idea who Leonard French is and frankly dont care. I care more about the ethics behind this.

The kid did wrong I wont deny that and action should be taken but not in this manner especial if what is in the letter is true. There are plenty of other options and actions can be taken than outright suing a minor just to make him a scapegoat.

Please don't take this to be offensive because it is not intended to be...

 

It does matter if he disagrees, he is a certified and actively working attorney who has both read all the case notes and done his own lawyer research into the legalities of the matter.

 

Everything stated in this thread is opinion, Leanords take on this is a professional opinion based around the actual facts with prior knowledge of how the court systems actually work.

 

Also let me be super clear, I'm not taking sides or defending anyone, I'm just saying that a BAR registered lawyer thinks Epic have done nothing wrong and that the kid is likely to lose if the judge decides to proceed with the case.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but in this case Leanords is the only opinion that is based around fact. Remember that lawyers are seldom interested in morality, only what they can and can't get away with under current laws.

[Sfekke]

4 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

cheating and modding are in 2 different area. Most game makers understand that mods can happen and are ok with it.

most multiplayer games hate cheaters but will accept mods. 

They are but some make it seem like it overlaps. But yes by definition it is a different thing.

[asus killer]

the videogame industry is a disgrace. Jim from Jimquisition (i don't really like him but most of what he say is true) talks about this a lot. They went out of their way to stop lawmakers to regulate the industry. Shit like lootboxes or suing 14 year old kids are a disgrace. They are just asking for all the videogame haters to start looking into this, and the violence in videogames will came down on them. Trump spoke about it, Fox does not like it, just let them loose on this 

Let's not go into day one DLC, incomplete/broken games release to public, DRM,...

 

What the kid has done is wrong, should be banned. Period. More than that is just stupid. The excuse that they did not know their age is just so insane, if they did not know just don't be stupid, i can't believe Epic did not know they have a lot of teens and pre teens playing their games.

 

kids are kids, they do this shit. You cannot want to make money of kids and then expect them to act like adults

 

The mom has a point, they should have gone after the website that distributed the cheat, not the users.

 

What a shit show. Suing a 14 year old over a videogame cheat, in my country the judge would just laugh is ass off. 

 

[Dygear]

On 11/28/2017 at 9:53 PM, SansVarnic said:

- Moved to General Discussion - 

 

Topic does not meet the guidelines for the Tech News section.

Please update;

• needs a quote

Will be moved back when updated.

 

Fixed.

[JCBiggs]

they have 0 right to force anyone to take any video down.  exposing a loophole in your software makes you look bad.  this makes you look worse.   I hope they counter sue and end up owning a large portion of epic

 

[JCBiggs]

Also. 

its not a "modified version of their copyright'd material"   its a layer above that.  its a tool. an addon.  and it can only "loosely" be called cheating.  If I put a double tap trigger on a semi auto fire arm (real life) to make it fire as fast as an automatic.. guess what.. the ATF says thats ok.   because i used an accessory.  I didnt modify the firearm.   

 

so unless somehow someone has the source code of this software and modified it, then anything they could of done is nothing more than an accessory.   a detection and selection tool.  albeit a very fast one.   That in itself disqualifies this whole case. 

 

 

[asus killer]

9 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

Also. 

its not a "modified version of their copyright'd material"   its a layer above that.  its a tool. an addon.  and it can only "loosely" be called cheating.  If I put a double tap trigger on a semi auto fire arm (real life) to make it fire as fast as an automatic.. guess what.. the ATF says thats ok.   because i used an accessory.  I didnt modify the firearm.   

 

so unless somehow someone has the source code of this software and modified it, then anything they could of done is nothing more than an accessory.   a detection and selection tool.  albeit a very fast one.   That in itself disqualifies this whole case. 

 

 

dude, that's a very bad example. Giving a example of guns and Americans to prove anything could about explain every crazy shit you want... over there having a garage full of assault rifles bought in the local supermarket it's just fine 

Of course it's cheating the game was not meant to be played like that.

[JCBiggs]

7 hours ago, asus killer said:

dude, that's a very bad example. Giving a example of guns and Americans to prove anything could about explain every crazy shit you want... over there having a garage full of assault rifles bought in the local supermarket it's just fine 

Of course it's cheating the game was not meant to be played like that.

It doesn't matter, its still correct. Again, unless a hacker/coder got the source code, then the actual copyrighted material isn't modified.   By the way.. this company and thier software is such a joke.    The game wont even install on my computer.  Its own launcher fails to install its own prerequisites, even running in an admin account.  Lol.  This company is nothing more than a bunch of half ass coders who have no idea how to lock down thier software and prevent cheating... so let the lawyers do it.  

[Sauron]

Can't say EPIC is in the right here... one thing is banning said kid for cheating, which I'm all for, but suing him is way too much, especially since there really are no grounds for a suit - even if he violated the EULA (and remember, a company can't write and enforce whatever it wants in a EULA) a lawsuit is extreme. Back when we first heard of EPIC potentially suing cheat creators I sort of agreed with the idea, but I didn't think they'd be using those tactics against cheaters who just got the cheat from a website. Things like this just undermine the credibility of everyone involved. What's going to happen now if they sue an actual cheat creator now? The case will just get thrown out by a judge who considers this a precedent.

[Sauron]

45 minutes ago, JCBiggs said:

Again, unless a hacker/coder got the source code, then the actual copyrighted material isn't modified.

 

18 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

so unless somehow someone has the source code of this software and modified it, then anything they could of done is nothing more than an accessory.   a detection and selection tool.  albeit a very fast one.   That in itself disqualifies this whole case. 

Not having the source code doesn't prevent you from making modifications to the game itself. When you compile a program all you're doing is converting your high level language into something the computer understands - bytecode. That bytecode can be read and modified at will with the right tools and knowledge. So no, it isn't impossible to create cheats by modifying the game's executable(s), and no, it doesn't HAVE to be an add-on. This is how cracks work, and cracks are illegal.

18 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

they have 0 right to force anyone to take any video down. 

This is true.

18 hours ago, JCBiggs said:

I hope they counter sue and end up owning a large portion of epic

This is not how lawsuits work and you can't sue a company demanding to get shares of it in reparation. As for hoping, remember this kid was cheating... while he doesn't deserve to be sued I don't think he deserves to walk away from this as a winner either.