Epic BURN By Mom

[Dygear]

Epic Games, the game developer of the massively popular Fortnite survival shooter, now finds itself at the center of a heated debate around the ethics of punishing cheaters after filing a lawsuit against a 14-year-old boy. In response, the boy’s mother 

filed a legal note tearing down Epic’s lawsuit and calling for it to be thrown out.

 

Epic Games is suing a 14 year old child. The child's mom appears to be lawyer and filed a motion for dismissal. While that is nice and all, when you read the content on the dismissal motion you see just how big of a PR nightmare this is going to be for Epic Games. I'd go so far as to call this an EPIC BURN. It's brilliant, you must read it!

 

https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/27/16707562/epic-games-fortnite-cheating-lawsuit-debate-14-year-old-kid

[mr moose]

I've got not time for cheaters, but I have to say I have less time for bully corporations.   Lawsuits of this intensity can inflict a life long anxiety disorder and given how easy it is for such companies to do things the right way it is, in my mind, abhorrent behaviour.

 

http://www.mentalhealthy.co.uk/anxiety/anxiety/lawsuit-stress-the-dark-side-of-litigation.html

[NelizMastr]

While this case itself is ridiculous, and his age group restricted from adult prosecution (at least here, across the pond), I do feel that cheating in videogames should be punishable by more than just a "ban". While this is an excessive display of power and a ridiculous fine, cheaters should know they fucked up and get fined for something around $500 at first, with an added $500 each time they're caught again. Cheating destroys games, so cheaters should be destroyed with them.

[Cookybiscuit]

1 minute ago, NelizMastr said:

While this case itself is ridiculous, and his age group restricted from adult prosecution (at least here, across the pond), I do feel that cheating in videogames should be punishable by more than just a "ban". While this is an excessive display of power and a ridiculous fine, cheaters should know they fucked up and get fined for something around $500 at first, with an added $500 each time they're caught again. Cheating destroys games, so cheaters should be destroyed with them.

Your signature is very relevant, you must be in dreamland if you want some kid cheating on TF2 to be fined $500 by the government. Get real.

[Sfekke]

My stance on cheating/modding :

If you use cheats and are alone with a group of friends that agree with you doing what you do, then it should be allowed. You are not bothering anyone, and are adding more hours of fun to a game. May this be through modding or cheating.

When you are playing a single player experience it should also be allowed, you are again just either enriching or ruining your own experience.

But when other people that have not agreed or do not even know you are modding/cheating are involved you could be ruining it for them.

Take GTA V, I play it just for the grind and thrill of driving fast, racing with friends, that kind off stuff.

I never agreed to get money dropped on my head, since it takes away hours I could have spent racing and earning the money.

So in essence that ruined my experience.

Where cheats should also be disallowed if they give you a direct advantage. Like aimbot/ESP-Wallhack. But dropping money/XP on yourself or giving yourself high tier items doesn't matter. A new player with high tier weapons is still a new player.

 

TL;DR :

Unless it directly affects players that didn't agree with it, I'm okay with modding/cheating. When I'd go CoD Zombies cheating with a group of friends can give you an amazing time.

As for the global leaderboards, developers should give an option to disable participation. Then I'd happily turn them off to prevent disrupting them.

So Aimbot/Wallhack/Boosting other players without permission are things I strongly disagree with.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, NelizMastr said:

While this case itself is ridiculous, and his age group restricted from adult prosecution (at least here, across the pond), I do feel that cheating in videogames should be punishable by more than just a "ban". While this is an excessive display of power and a ridiculous fine, cheaters should know they fucked up and get fined for something around $500 at first, with an added $500 each time they're caught again. Cheating destroys games, so cheaters should be destroyed with them.

 

In this case I personally believe banning and having his videos pulled down is enough.  Private companies have no right to fine anyone for anything.  You need government granted authority for that.

[Rain7]

Let me get this straight, Epic already contacted the kid and requested him to take down the video since he's effectively distributing cheats. But the kid, being a privileged little twat, ignores it and comes crying to his mom when he gets sued. And his mom, being a good parent that she is, decides to fight the case using legal loopholes to teach his child that what he did was okay and Epic is in the wrong. To think that this entire fiasco could've been avoided if he just did the right thing and took down his video which promoted cheating.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Rain7 said:

Let me get this straight, Epic already contacted the kid and requested him to take down the video since he's effectively distributing cheats. But the kid, being a privileged little twat, ignores it and comes crying to his mom when he gets sued. And his mom, being a good parent that she is, decides to fight the case using legal loopholes to teach his child that what he did was okay and Epic is in the wrong. To think that this entire fiasco could've been avoided if he just did the right thing and took down his video which promoted cheating.

He wasn't distributing cheats, his video was just a let's play that included him using the cheat. 

[Herman Mcpootis]

1 minute ago, Rain7 said:

Let me get this straight, Epic already contacted the kid and requested him to take down the video since he's effectively distributing cheats. But the kid, being a privileged little twat, ignores it and comes crying to his mom when he gets sued. 

+1, this part is why i choose to support epic on this, even if suing the kid feels abit 'harsh'.

[Rain7]

Just now, mr moose said:

He wasn't distributing cheats, his video was just a let's play that included him using the cheat. 

That's why I used the word "effectively"

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Rain7 said:

That's why I used the word "effectively"

putting the word effectively in there does not make it distribution, at best it is promotion.

[Rain7]

Just now, mr moose said:

putting the word effectively in their does not make it distribution, at best it is promotion.

Surprise surprise, it's the actual summary of what Epic's suing him for

Quote

Epic says it’s in the right because the lawsuit isn’t about the use of cheating software, but the promotion of said software on YouTube.

 

[apm]

but isnt this about a video of the kid cheating including instructions?

epic claimed it and the kid counter-claimed, which ends up in the court now?

they arent simply sueing a random cheater in their game.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, Rain7 said:

"effectively distributing cheats" yeah. Oh I love being corrected, that is, if they were correct in the first place.

he wasn't distributing cheats.  Not too sure why this is so hard to understand.

[TheRandomness]

-Thread cleaned. Don't make me lock it.

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

he wasn't distributing cheats.  Not too sure why this is so hard to understand.

Just to clear up a point before anything else happens, in using said cheat in the video he was essentially showing it off to the audience, therefore he was making the people think that the cheat was good, therefore making them go off and download it. Indirectly, that's distribution through promotion.

 

-Oh also thread moved to PC Gaming. @Dygear please fix your pot to adhere to the TN&R guidelines (put in a quote in the post from the article.

[mr moose]

13 minutes ago, apm said:

but isnt this about a video of the kid cheating including instructions?

epic claimed it and the kid counter-claimed, which ends up in the court now?

they arent simply sueing a random cheater in their game.

It's not so much why they are suing, but more that they are suing a child over an issue they could have fixed with a ban and a  DMCA take down notice.  After all that is why the DMCA exists.

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, TheRandomness said:

Indirectly, that's distribution through promotion.

No, one is making the product physically available, the other is telling people about it, they are not the same.

[Rain7]

Just now, mr moose said:

he wasn't distributing cheats.  Not too sure why this is so hard to understand.

Hence the term "effectively". The fact that knowing a working cheat exists through his videos can lead people into obtaining a copy for themselves. So in hindsight, he's effectively distributing information that there is a working cheat out there.

[mr moose]

Just now, Rain7 said:

Hence the term "effectively". The fact that knowing a working cheat exists through his videos can lead people into obtaining a copy for themselves. So in hindsight, he's effectively distributing information that there is a working cheat out there.

 Disseminating information about a product is not the same as distributing that product.  They have very defined meanings, especially in law, that is why Epic did not accuse him of distribution.

[JuztBe]

(from the soruce)

That kid is cheating on more games, not only Fortnite.

It would be one thing if kid actually realised that what he's doing is wrong, but he truly believes that he's in the right here. That cheating is ok if you are doing for fun.

 

Hopefully EPIC doesn't back off, fallows this trough and wins. 

[mr moose]

Just now, JuztBe said:

(from the soruce)

That kid is cheating on more games, not only Fortnite.

It would be one thing if kid actually realised that what he's doing is wrong, but he truly believes that he's in the right here. That cheating is ok if you are doing for fun.

 

Hopefully EPIC doesn't back off, fallows this trough and wins. 

All I want is for them to have his videos taken down.  Take away his voice and all that's left is an unemployable twit that will end up with no friends (or the president of the US).

[Rain7]

Just now, mr moose said:

 Disseminating information about a product is not the same as distributing that product.  They have very defined meanings, especially in law, that is why Epic did not accuse him of distribution.

Hence why I prefaced it with "effectively", since that's what it was leading to. Those were my words and I have the right to say my point of view on what that video's doing. I didn't say Epic was distributing, in fact, I quoted exactly what they were suing him for.

[JuztBe]

Just now, mr moose said:

All I want is for them to have his videos taken down.  Take away his voice and all that's left is an unemployable twit that will end up with no friends (or the president of the US).

Agree, that would be the most reasonable solution. Can they even ask that in court though?

 

[mr moose]

3 minutes ago, Rain7 said:

Hence why I prefaced it with "effectively", since that's what it was leading to. Those were my words and I have the right to say my point of view on what that video's doing. I didn't say Epic was distributing, in fact, I quoted exactly what they were suing him for.

Going around in circles...

 

1 minute ago, JuztBe said:

Agree, that would be the most reasonable solution. Can they even ask that in court though?

 

Yes they can, that is primarily why the case was started, because the DMCA was challenged and the only way they can enforce it is through litigation.  The problem I have is that the article insinuates they're seeking damages and could ask upto $150,000.   They could litigate only to have the DMCA take down enforced, I believe CR law is pretty solid on that front.

 

 

 

 

[apm]

45 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It's not so much why they are suing, but more that they are suing a child over an issue they could have fixed with a ban and a  DMCA take down notice.  After all that is why the DMCA exists.

they already banned him 9 times and they tried to take down the video, but the kid countered it. 

what else can they do?