iOS 11: Marking the end of 32-bit Apps

[WMGroomAK]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I honestly don't think this is a very big deal. Support for the 32-bit phones were going to end soon anyway, and they have been supported for a pretty long time (for smartphone standards).

I do think that this helps to highlight one of the main pros (& cons) of the Apple v Android argument, where Apple can definitely do this a lot easier with their OS since they know all the hardware it runs on and which ones will support being a 64-bit OS only, where as Android cannot (easily) do that with all the different hardware configurations that could be running their OS and Play Store Apps.  From what I've seen, this has always been one of Apple's strengths in the mobile and desktop environment, of course, they also end up charging more money because of it and you are hardware limited (which is a seperate gripe I have... )

[Castdeath97]

28 minutes ago, nerdslayer1 said:

you can still install ROMs on the Galaxy s3, getting Android 7.1, is very easy. 

Yeah but you aren't guaranteed best optimization (espcially for the camera) nor guaranteed stable releases. 

 

Source: Actually tried it with my S3 back then. 

[Master Disaster]

6 hours ago, ResidentRad said:

Forced obsolescence? 

 

Its 5 year old hardware, not using a 64 bit CPU. Its time has come, move on. 

 

Remind me again, how many 5 year old Android devices got 5 OS updates straight from Google or their manufacturer. Ill wait. 

Not the point, we're not discussing Android here (and BTW I agree that if anything Android is worse although in the case of Android its a very different story).

 

If Apple weren't forcing this would those 5 year old phones be getting updated? Yep. And do IP5 owners now have to buy a new phone if they want to stay up to date? Yep.

 

Its forced obsolescence by its very definition, something Apple is very well known for.

[Curufinwe_wins]

17 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Not the point, we're not discussing Android here (and BTW I agree that if anything Android is worse although in the case of Android its a very different story).

 

If Apple weren't forcing this would those 5 year old phones be getting updated? Yep. And do IP5 owners now have to buy a new phone if they want to stay up to date? Yep.

 

Its forced obsolescence by its very definition, something Apple is very well known for.

Personally... since Android apps don't stop working without updates... I don't think it is as bad, BUT either way it is about time/expected at this point.

 

And the 5C is only 3.5 years old btw... but yeah based on the older base 5.

[Castdeath97]

2 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Personally... since Android apps don't stop working without updates... I don't think it is as bad, BUT either way it is about time/expected at this point.

 

And the 5C is only 3.5 years old btw... but yeah based on the older base 5.

3.5 years is pretty good though, bloody Samsung only supported my S3 for a year and a half basically, not even 4.4!

[Michael McAllister]

18 hours ago, Valentyn said:

I wholeheartedly agree. Some older devices that can manage to run the new OS will just be too told to run it well. It'll be slow and annoying to use. 

 

I still have an iPad2, it can't update to iOS 10, and I really don't want it to. It's not fast enough and doesn't have enough RAM to handle it. 

 

It already chugs at times, and you can only imagine how bad it would be trying to shove the latest iOS11 on here or those older phones. 

 

The devices have been supported for a very long time, far more than most competing ones. Time to move on.

 

I hope that you don't put that iPad on the Internet.

[DoctorZeus]

i like tinkering with shtuff as much as the next nerd but I'll be damned if I have to sideload anything on my old ass phone.

 

 what companies offer free support for outdated hardware for relatively lengthy periods of time. you can adopt lean hardware specific software development or end up with the enormous windows compability.

 

i dont own any apple products and dont plan to but I think it is planned obsolescence and I think that's fine. 

[Belgarathian]

22 hours ago, Rangaman42 said:

Lol a local news outlet has run a story on the outrage of forced upgrades, since the iPhone 5/5c won't be able to upgrade. Forgetting to mention that these Five year old phones don't even support 64bit, and will still run for years anyway.

 

But I think this is great, trim away obsolete features so we don't have a huge, bloated OS trying to support a decade of devices. This is one of those cases where Apple's willingness to make older devices "obsolete" is actually a good thing, otherwise you end up with something like Windows which has to try and support all kinds of legacy junk while still attempting to provide modern features.

I saw that too... #topcommentonstuff

[HelplmChoking]

Just now, Belgarathian said:

I saw that too... #topcommentonstuff

Oh Jesus those comments are rough... All 58 year olds with no idea.

[Blebekblebek]

8 hours ago, Castdeath97 said:

Yeah but you aren't guaranteed best optimization (espcially for the camera) nor guaranteed stable releases. 

 

Source: Actually tried it with my S3 back then. 

How is this justified?

 

Working or not is the issue

 

The point is, No Android phone company will sue you for installing or developing custom rom

Now try that with apple products.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Blebekblebek said:

How is this justified?

 

Working or not is the issue

 

The point is, No Android phone company will sue you for installing or developing custom rom

Now try that with apple products.

TIL Apple will sue me for installing a custom ROM. 

[Castdeath97]

3 hours ago, Blebekblebek said:

How is this justified?

 

Working or not is the issue

 

The point is, No Android phone company will sue you for installing or developing custom rom

Now try that with apple products.

To be frank I don't think Apple is that concerned about what you do to sue lol. Yeah it's a nice thing, but only if the bootloader is easy to unlock (looking at you Sony ) which the S3's was sure easy to unlock, but it does still take time and you aren't guaranteed anything you know what you are doing really well.

[Valentyn]

7 hours ago, Michael McAllister said:

I hope that you don't put that iPad on the Internet.

I tried, it's so old and has so little ram it chugs loading this forum in Safari. Two tabs? Hello freezing safari.

The last ios update feels as though I have a early 2000s pc with Visa on it.

 

On its way out. It's been a good run though. 

[ResidentRad]

16 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Not the point, we're not discussing Android here (and BTW I agree that if anything Android is worse although in the case of Android its a very different story).

 

If Apple weren't forcing this would those 5 year old phones be getting updated? Yep. And do IP5 owners now have to buy a new phone if they want to stay up to date? Yep.

 

Its forced obsolescence by its very definition, something Apple is very well known for.

 

Lol how long should Apple be expected to keep their devices up to date? What magical and arbitrary number would make you happy? Because people like you will just find another thing to bitch about. 

 

Apple known for forced obsolescence? What? The company that supports its devices as long as they reasonably can, especially considering the tangible hardware requirements as the software grows year by year? Hell, even when their desktops and laptops lose "official" support there's nothing stopping you from slapping the newest OSX on older hardware; just dont expect the greatest time or compatibility. 

 

I'm sorry you think 5 years of up to date, official support isn't enough for a phone. 

[Master Disaster]

19 minutes ago, ResidentRad said:

 

Lol how long should Apple be expected to keep their devices up to date? What magical and arbitrary number would make you happy? Because people like you will just find another thing to bitch about. 

 

Apple known for forced obsolescence? What? The company that supports its devices as long as they reasonably can, especially considering the tangible hardware requirements as the software grows year by year? Hell, even when their desktops and laptops lose "official" support there's nothing stopping you from slapping the newest OSX on older hardware; just dont expect the greatest time or compatibility. 

 

I'm sorry you think 5 years of up to date, official support isn't enough for a phone. 

How about forever, I mean if Apple operated like every other tech company in existence then once the phone dropped out of its support period the user could choose to root the device and update it themselves using a non official firmware, in this way users can keep their old phones operating almost indefinitely (at least till the hardware dies) but Apple don't allow that. Instead when Apple decide to pull the plug your device is entirely obsolete and there's nothing you can do to change that.

 

Oh and I suggest you keep up with the news because since Sierra launched Apple have started blacklisting older Macs so Sierra won't install on them at all.

 

Wanna go back to Mavericks on your 2016 MPB? Nope, Apple won't allow anything other than 10.12 to be installed on it and that's something their very likely to implement on the new Mac line they just announced.

 

Wanna use an older TB3 device on Sierra? Nope because Apple blacklisted older TB3 controllers in Sierra.

 

Everything Apple do is designed to get you into their Ecosystem and once you're invested keep you there.

 

My gripe isn't about official support, its about Apples stubborn refusal to allow any form of third party support to exist for devices that customers have bought.

[Jito463]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Everything Apple do is designed to get you into their Ecosystem and once you're invested keep you there.

 

My gripe isn't about official support, its about Apples stubborn refusal to allow any form of third party support to exist for devices that customers have bought.

That's Apple for you.  It's their world, you just pay for the 'privilege' of living in it.

[spartaman64]

What why did they drop 32bit support all together. Some applications run better 32bit

[79wjd]

41 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

What why did they drop 32bit support all together. Some applications run better 32bit

Such as?

[PlayStation 2]

55 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

What why did they drop 32bit support all together. Some applications run better 32bit

There's really no negative into going for 64 bit support.

Hell, there's a ton of positives into doing so.

[samiscool51]

On 2017-6-7 at 9:48 AM, WMGroomAK said:

This also means that Apps running only in 32-bit mode will not be available in the iOS 11 App Store.  

even though the 64-bit architecture is designed to have backwards compatibility without much problem?

if apple is saying thats it's not possible to run 32-bit programs on 64-bit hardware, the bullshit meter would explode

wait one sec

(gets out bullshit meter)

WE INTERRUPT THIS POST TO BRING YOU A BULLETIN NEWS STORY, a young couples house exploded at 11am, police say the cause was a bullshit meter that coulden't handle the amount of bulshit something was giving out, currently police don't know what thing caused it to explode but know that it was bullshit of the highest level.

next up: these puppies have fun at the local dog park with their adopted owner..

[spartaman64]

3 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

There's really no negative into going for 64 bit support.

Hell, there's a ton of positives into doing so.

there is no negative in having 64bit support but i think there are negatives in dropping 32bit support

 

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

15 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

there is no negative in having 64bit support but i think there are negatives in dropping 32bit support

Contrary to PCs, the performance of iOS apps tends to suffer under 32-bit mode. The Apple Developer License specifically requires the apps to support 64-bit since 2015. This often means that they will develop the app with 64-bit as a focus, with 32-bit being an afterthought. Also, as this is not standard x86, 32-bit programs need to be emulated from within the apps for phones that do not support 64-bit instructions, which is a major cause of the performance penalties with 32-bit mode. In other words, if you have an iPhone model supporting 64-bit, and you download an app that has been updated since 2015, you are getting the 64-bit version whether you like it or not. For iPhones still in 32-bit nothing will change, although you will get no new apps from that point.

[mrchow19910319]

I hope that this move will make all of the iOS devices more responsive. 

Just like high sierra on macs. 

[RedRound2]

On 6/8/2017 at 0:32 AM, Master Disaster said:

Not the point, we're not discussing Android here (and BTW I agree that if anything Android is worse although in the case of Android its a very different story).

 

If Apple weren't forcing this would those 5 year old phones be getting updated? Yep. And do IP5 owners now have to buy a new phone if they want to stay up to date? Yep.

 

Its forced obsolescence by its very definition, something Apple is very well known for.

Lol, you don't even have a reference, yet you go on trying to make a point.

 

Your analogy is plain stupid. Technology moves fast in phones. The CPU and GPU power on a phone in 2017 is astronomically higher that what you would have gotten in 2010. and because of that software has evolved to the point where there is a lot going on which hardware can't support. 64 bit apps is an example, so is x265 hardware acceleration, machine learning algorithms, natural language processing, new wireless standards, motion co-processor, etc

 

You can't compare this to PCs, because PCs have been so stagnated these days and frankly most people don't really require any more power than what a 2010 intel processor can do. Hence why efficiency is the focus on PC side and hence why newer OSs seems to work fine with ancient computers

 

Your argument is just hating on Apple with no real basis. Stop sticking to your old 1995 civic and get a new 2017 version, if you want to get all the new modern features.

 

And how is Android a different story? Manufacturers on Android side really only care about their current flagship phones, even if the phone in question can work absolutely fine with current technology. 

[ionbasa]

On 6/16/2017 at 6:39 PM, samiscool51 said:

even though the 64-bit architecture is designed to have backwards compatibility without much problem?

if apple is saying thats it's not possible to run 32-bit programs on 64-bit hardware, the bullshit meter would explode

wait one sec

(gets out bullshit meter)

WE INTERRUPT THIS POST TO BRING YOU A BULLETIN NEWS STORY, a young couples house exploded at 11am, police say the cause was a bullshit meter that coulden't handle the amount of bulshit something was giving out, currently police don't know what thing caused it to explode but know that it was bullshit of the highest level.

next up: these puppies have fun at the local dog park with their adopted owner..

 iOS is derived from BSD (unix). If you want both 32 and 64 bit app support, you need a kernel that supports multi arch. For example, 64 bit Linux OSes do not natively support running 32 bit binaries. You have to manually enable multi arch support by adding additional packages, modifying kernel, adding dependencies, etc...

 

The point is, it's not native like everyone thinks, not even on Windows, look up WOW64. Its Windows 32 on Windows 64. It's the only way to run 32bit apps on 64 bit versions of Windows, via a separate subsystem/library.

 

All of this adds overhead, complexity, and uses up both storage and ram for no reason. Apps can be coded to the native architecture, and be drastically improved in terms of performance and memory usage. There's nothing wrong with leaning down a OS, especially a mobile OS. It's called optimization and makes this simpler for both Apple and devs.