Intel Coffee Lake CPUs Delayed to 2018, 8th Gen Gets Kaby Lake Refresh This Year

[Guest Darth Revan]

Fuck you Intel.

[tom_w141]

Quote

AMD's actual product lineup, especially the release of an HEDT platform after it seemed they would try to compete X99 with AM4 8-cores (recall all the marketing being based on 1800X vs 6900K back then), was the only actually disruptive information Intel got this year, and got them a bit puzzled.

@SpaceGhostC2C I had forgotten about that, that is probably how they were able to blindside them so badly with Threadripper. By the time they got that information the damage was done and all they could do was announce a product they haven't made yet.

[Taf the Ghost]

19 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

I obviously have no insider information, but here goes my conjecture:

- Intel knew Zen was coming at roughly where it would land in IPC terms, probably before the rest of us starting to get the salt trucks etc.

- Intel conceived it's next iteration of consumer and HEDT platform more or less knowing it will compete with Zen, but without knowing the details on what products would AMD exactly offer based on it.

- As a consequence, Intel was probably planning to toss us a bone or two on top of their typical incremental upgrades to defend its market position.

- AMD's actual product lineup, especially the release of an HEDT platform after it seemed they would try to compete X99 with AM4 8-cores (recall all the marketing being based on 1800X vs 6900K back then), was the only actually disruptive information Intel got this year, and got them a bit puzzled.

- They've been revising their plans products not yet released around the clock to try and make sure they still make sense. I think their main problem is that they had all the flexibility to design when they lacked information, and they got all the information at a point in which they are not as flexible since most of the engineering work is done.

 

Based on that assumed situation, I'd expect Intel to just juggle around what it has in the near future, and come up with a more "Ryzen-ready" plan for the subsequent generations.

 

I think this goes to prove how easy it is to play keyboard CEO and/or keyboard engineer compared to actually doing the job  

Just like people were calling names to AMD staff for Bulldozer, now we have another extremist wave claiming Intel is lazy, ignorant, mismanaged... I think it's useful to pause for a moment, sit back and think calmly about the ebb and flow of this industry. How no amount of R&D spending can guarantee a dramatic breakthrough, and how companies need to play with whatever cards they have. Sometimes, you get a losing hand and no skill will prevent defeat, but you can try to cut back the losses, then get ready for the next hand.

 

Intel went from 60% market share to more than 80% in less than 15 years. It doesn't matter that Ryzen is not better than the best they have, there is no way they are going to keep such a high market share against a less crippled competitor. They knew AMD was going to take a bite at the market from the moment they got confirmation of Zen's IPC. Now it's all marketing what each one has the best they can until any other significant innovation takes place. There surely will be some trial and error in the process.

I think there's a lot of things crashing together really close together.

 

- AMD came back far harder than even AMD expected. (52% IPC improvement?)

- Intel has been having issues with 10 nm process (well, everyone has been), so their Roadmap has gotten stretched out.

- Coffee Lake was added because Cannon Lake was running really late, so the next upgrade "cycle" isn't much of one.

- 4 cores on X299 still doesn't make much sense to anyone.

- Threadripper (Snowy Owl) had no confirmation or even an official place on AMD's NDA-signed roadmaps. (Clearly a "late" decision from AMD to produce.)

- Intel responds to TR by just throwing cores at X299. Doesn't mean it'll actually perform better. 

 

It's also important to keep in mind that, to most people, today's Intel is the McAfee-buying "Intel Taxer" that put us on 4c processors for a decade.

[Guest Darth Revan]

From what I understood the so called Kaby Lake refresh (how the fuck is it a refresh when it needs a new socket and Intel said last year that it won't, is beyond me) is coming in August, at least some of them. But the majority of the release is next year Q1.

Did I get that right?

[NumLock21]

Intel toothpaste company

yay!

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Darth Revan said:

how the fuck is it a refresh when it needs a new socket and Intel said last year that it won't, is beyond me

Same underlying components and architecture, with some needed tweaks to fix problems or improve slightly over the original, and then giving it a new name. It doesn't matter if the refresh is on a new socket, if the actual package remains largely unchanged.

[Zodiark1593]

36 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

@SpaceGhostC2C I had forgotten about that, that is probably how they were able to blindside them so badly with Threadripper. By the time they got that information the damage was done and all they could do was announce a product they haven't made yet.

Smart move by AMD to suckered punch Intel. They deserve some kudos there, though the follow up will be even more important. 

[MysticalRainXIV]

Lets just hope AMD can keep the ball rolling, and not the same mistake as Bulldozer down the road, to force intel to give us what we want at price points that arent gouging us for every penny.

[AnonymousGuy]

So my guess is they are completely scrapping putting CFL on the Kaby Lake chipset, and going to make it more of a platform upgrade (chipset + other features) than just a CPU upgrade.  

 

Intel doesn't do this stuff for no reason.  Chances are this is what OEM's asked for.

[handymanshandle]

In support of Donald "Daddy" Trump I think it should be named Covfefe Lake.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Darth Revan said:

From what I understood the so called Kaby Lake refresh (how the fuck is it a refresh when it needs a new socket and Intel said last year that it won't, is beyond me) is coming in August, at least some of them. But the majority of the release is next year Q1.

Did I get that right?

As of two weeks ago, the only thing Intel is committed to is announcing Coffee Lake in "August-September" range. Launch isn't clear yet.  At Computex they said they'd have "desktop" chips out this year.  But that could be December.

 

But, seriously, if they drop the X299 then 2 months later are like "look, we have Refreshed Kaby Lake chips! On a new socket!".  That's going to be really strange for the market.

[Taf the Ghost]

3 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

So my guess is they are completely scrapping putting CFL on the Kaby Lake chipset, and going to make it more of a platform upgrade (chipset + other features) than just a CPU upgrade.  

 

Intel doesn't do this stuff for no reason.  Chances are this is what OEM's asked for.

The important detail is that the Z370 & coming 300 series boards will also support the 10 nm Cannon Lake parts in last 2018.

[Guest Darth Revan]

3 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

As of two weeks ago, the only thing Intel is committed to is announcing Coffee Lake in "August-September" range. Launch isn't clear yet.  At Computex they said they'd have "desktop" chips out this year.  But that could be December.

 

But, seriously, if they drop the X299 then 2 months later are like "look, we have Refreshed Kaby Lake chips! On a new socket!".  That's going to be really strange for the market.

I see. Thank you.

 

[Nicnac]

I don't particularly like intel, but I like coffee  

[Jito463]

16 minutes ago, Nicnac said:

I don't particularly like intel, but I like coffee  

[Nicnac]

2 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

 

That's what i do every morning 

[Dabombinable]

I don't understand why the platform change between Kabylake refresh and Cannonlake. Its not like the chipsets would bottleneck the CPU, because we're not in the 90's and going from 66MHz (or lower if its a 486 & older) all the way to 133MHz.

[Guest Darth Revan]

I'm going to ask a question to which I kind of know the answer, but I'm not quite sure so I want to be sure.

Considering the fact that they're going to demand a new motherboard in order to use the refresh processors, even though last year they said it won't require a new one. Fucking assholes.

Is there any chance that since it's still 1151 but called V2 (reminds me of the Germans), that a current Kaby Lake processor will work on these new motherboards?

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

22 minutes ago, Darth Revan said:

I'm going to ask a question to which I kind of know the answer, but I'm not quite sure so I want to be sure.

Considering the fact that they're going to demand a new motherboard in order to use the refresh processors, even though last year they said it won't require a new one. Fucking assholes.

Is there any chance that since it's still 1151 but called V2 (reminds me of the Germans), that a current Kaby Lake processor will work on these new motherboards?

 

 

I've seen one rumor, maybe you saw the same, that they had to change chipsets for technical reasons, thus they aren't going to be pin-compatible. But what's going to be really confusing is: Does Coffee & Cannonlake work on the same platforms?  And are Cannon Lake (10 nm die-shrink) chips coming in early 2018?

 

Or is there only going to be Mobile versions of Cannon Lake, with Desktop not seeing them, at which point Ice Lake is the next upgrade? (Which should bring DDR5, so that means new chipset).  I honestly don't know.

 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

 

Found my own answer.  This is from like 2 weeks ago at an Intel seminar.  

 

So, yes, somewhere in August-September, Intel is *announcing* Coffee Lake / (Core i7-8700k? ) on the Z370 platform.  6 months later, somewhere in Q1 2018, Intel is *announcing* Coffee Lake for the "mainstream" platform.  Those shouldn't be new chips, however, just a new motherboard set without as many features.  Z370 and 300-series should share a socket.

 

(Side note: yes, AMD did go with X399 specifically to piss off Intel.)

 

Cannon Lake, the 10 nm die shrink, then has slipped.  The first roll out is on the Laptop & Device-focused ranges, which in 2016 were on the Roadmap for Q4'2017. Those are now Q2'2018.  So there is still 10 nm yield problems.

 

Coffee Lake was, however, moved up by a chunk. Possibly way up, but that should be too hard. It's going to be almost the exact same chip again.

[Guest Darth Revan]

21 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I've seen one rumor, maybe you saw the same, that they had to change chipsets for technical reasons, thus they aren't going to be pin-compatible. But what's going to be really confusing is: Does Coffee & Cannonlake work on the same platforms?  And are Cannon Lake (10 nm die-shrink) chips coming in early 2018?

 

Or is there only going to be Mobile versions of Cannon Lake, with Desktop not seeing them, at which point Ice Lake is the next upgrade? (Which should bring DDR5, so that means new chipset).  I honestly don't know.

 

 

If you're referring to the wcc article, then yes, we both saw the same one.

Thing is only this article says this. The two german websites just talk about the refresh and the upcoming coffee lake and the netbook line-up.

Only wcc talks about 1151v2.

[Taf the Ghost]

17 minutes ago, Darth Revan said:

If you're referring to the wcc article, then yes, we both saw the same one.

Thing is only this article says this. The two german websites just talk about the refresh and the upcoming coffee lake and the netbook line-up.

Only wcc talks about 1151v2.

I don't go to WCC, though I probably saw the source they pulled it from. It was a translated post from a Chinese forum that was on Anandtech.  Said the 8th Gen (Coffee Lake) was a different socket for electrical reasons. I believe it also said Skylake-X was really good as well.

[Atmos]

Watching intel panic at AMD giving enthusiasts what they've been screaming for, for years has really given me the best keks I've had in a long while now.

[CoolMarquis97]

At this point, I am just so confused by all the new CPUs coming out. 

[Zodiark1593]

6 hours ago, Nicnac said:

I don't particularly like intel, but I like coffee  

Of there was a real life Godot, (coffee addict from Phoenix Wright), he'd buy the lake.