Intel Coffee Lake CPUs Delayed to 2018, 8th Gen Gets Kaby Lake Refresh This Year

[TheCherryKing]

Is this some kind of joke?

 

[OriAr]

4 minutes ago, TheCherryKing said:

Is this some kind of joke?

 

This is WCCF Tech.

Coffee Lake is still coming out late summer

 

[Taf the Ghost]

10 minutes ago, OriAr said:

This is WCCF Tech.

Coffee Lake is still coming out late summer

 

It's being announced in August/September. We don't have a release date yet. "Mainstream" parts are being pushed back a bit, though.

[OriAr]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

It's being announced in August/September. We don't have a release date yet. "Mainstream" parts are being pushed back a bit, though.

Doubt Intel would announce these in August and release them in 2018, nothing about CFL suggests horrible yields or stuff like that.

When Intel say "Mainstream" they mean sub Z270 parts, Core i5 except 8600K and Core i3 + Pentium + Celeron. These might take a while to arrive.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

4 hours ago, Darth Revan said:

Is there any chance that since it's still 1151 but called V2 (reminds me of the Germans), that a current Kaby Lake processor will work on these new motherboards?

 

 

I have no clue, but I guess it could happen: we have seen such one-way compatibility with AM2 and AM2+, then AM3 and AM3+, and FM2 with FM2+ on the AMD side, and while I can't remember an exact equivalent for Intel, I believe sockets 771 and 775 could be fitted into each other with a minimal hardware hack (I don't remember in which direction).

[Taf the Ghost]

48 minutes ago, OriAr said:

Doubt Intel would announce these in August and release them in 2018, nothing about CFL suggests horrible yields or stuff like that.

When Intel say "Mainstream" they mean sub Z270 parts, Core i5 except 8600K and Core i3 + Pentium + Celeron. These might take a while to arrive.

At Computex, they said "desktop" and "this year", but that could be December.

[ravenshrike]

 

On 6/5/2017 at 6:08 PM, Taf the Ghost said:

Cannon Lake, the 10 nm die shrink, then has slipped.  The first roll out is on the Laptop & Device-focused ranges, which in 2016 were on the Roadmap for Q4'2017. Those are now Q2'2018.  So there is still 10 nm yield problems.

It would be a nasty circumstance for Intel if GloFo's 7nm(which Intel claims is the same as their 10 nm, but that's only really true in the transistor density sense) is up and running at the same time as their yields on 10nm finally pan out. I mean, Zen2 with the straight perf/power boost/efficiency at the same time as Cannon Lake would be nasty enough, but that still leaves the Zen3 team who is supposed to be working on major architectural improvements.

[Fgtfv567]

On 6/5/2017 at 6:59 AM, tom_w141 said:

Is someone at Intel having a stroke? Or have they been dominant so long they forgot how to think?

I think "BOTH." is a very valid answer.

 

To be honest, Broadwell was just for mobile CPUs, and there were very few desktop CPUs on that platform. In my mind, it was practically just a skip in generation.

 

They could have just done that again, and not waste time and resources on a KABY LAKE REFRESH. Instead, just delay Coffee Lake a little bit so we can get that 6-core goodness

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, ravenshrike said:

 

It would be a nasty circumstance for Intel if GloFo's 7nm(which Intel claims is the same as their 10 nm, but that's only really true in the transistor density sense) is up and running at the same time as their yields on 10nm finally pan out. I mean, Zen2 with the straight perf/power boost/efficiency at the same time as Cannon Lake would be nasty enough, but that still leaves the Zen3 team who is supposed to be working on major architectural improvements.

A little bit of a necro, but Icelake is the Desktop 10nm shrink. That still seems to be on tap for Q3`2018, but we'll see. And it's actually not that "10nm" is all that bad. It's just not a "process" improvement over 14nm+ or 14nm++. I still find it strange that they were able to revise the 14nm+ process, again, but their server platforms seem to be on 14nm+ not 14nm++. With how "late" 14nm was, I guess their engineers found some more tweaks that didn't make it in time for the Server section. (Granted, there have been Skylake Xeons delivered to Google & the like since December(?) 2016, so that makes sense.)

 

 

[DeleteMePls]

New mobo required and a delay? 7700k here I come. 

[Notional]

Well, they probably had to redo their entire line up, as they suddenly out of nowhere decided to add an additional 2 cores to the mainstream platform. I wonder why? I guess that will give people time to save up for the new motherboard they are forced to buy for Coffee lake.

[TheCherryKing]

14 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

A little bit of a necro, but Icelake is the Desktop 10nm shrink. That still seems to be on tap for Q3`2018, but we'll see. And it's actually not that "10nm" is all that bad. It's just not a "process" improvement over 14nm+ or 14nm++. I still find it strange that they were able to revise the 14nm+ process, again, but their server platforms seem to be on 14nm+ not 14nm++. With how "late" 14nm was, I guess their engineers found some more tweaks that didn't make it in time for the Server section. (Granted, there have been Skylake Xeons delivered to Google & the like since December(?) 2016, so that makes sense.)

 

 

They couldn't really make any of these code names for these different lines of CPUs anymore confusing, Soon they will run out of "Lakes".

[Taf the Ghost]

9 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

They couldn't really make any of these code names for these different lines of CPUs anymore confusing, Soon they will run out of "Lakes".

Sapphire Rapids in 2020.

 

I'm not joking!

[TheCherryKing]

1 minute ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Sapphire Rapids in 2020.

 

I'm not joking!

Really? They're changing to "rapids" in 2020?

[Taf the Ghost]

8 minutes ago, TheCherryKing said:

Really? They're changing to "rapids" in 2020?

Name comes from a slide at a Lenovo presentation, I believe. Ice Lake is the 10nm+ shrink + new uArch (updated Skylake, not a complete rebuild). Tiger Lake follows that in 2019, as an Ice Lake refresh. Sapphire Rapids is 2020 and should be on Intel's 7nm process. In theory.

[ravenshrike]

11 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

They couldn't really make any of these code names for these different lines of CPUs anymore confusing, Soon they will run out of "Lakes".

 

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Name comes from a slide at a Lenovo presentation, I believe. Ice Lake is the 10nm+ shrink + new uArch (updated Skylake, not a complete rebuild). Tiger Lake follows that in 2019, as an Ice Lake refresh. Sapphire Rapids is 2020 and should be on Intel's 7nm process. In theory.

But they had so many Lakes left. Blood Lake, Death Lake, RHPS Lake.

[handymanshandle]

Interesting I suppose.

It's intriguing how Intel has been challenged by getting down to 10nm. Samsung apparently is down to 10nm.

 

At this point, I kinda wonder if AMD will beat Intel to 10nm. I know what AMD is releasing now is 14nm. But it might not be impossible for them to get down to 10nm before Intel if they raise enough funds through their various product lines to beef up their R&D for both CPUs and GPUs. Kinda put monies earned from AMD and RTG into a sort of pot that'll go to ramp up their R&D for CPUs and GPUs.

[handymanshandle]

12 hours ago, TheCherryKing said:

They couldn't really make any of these code names for these different lines of CPUs anymore confusing, Soon they will run out of "Lakes".

Well there's over 100,000 lakes in the province of Manitoba and over 10,000 in the state of Minnesota. Combined, Intel could get 110,000 additional names.

 

Actually it appears they have taken some inspiration from names of real lakes.
Cannon Lake and Ice Lake are lakes right here in Minnesota.

 

Alas I can't seem to find lakes named Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake.
There is however, a city in Florida called Sky Lake.

 

Idk I guess I like AMD's current naming conventions.
Bristol Ridge, Summit Ridge, Raven Ridge.

Well there are a few outliers I suppose... Whitehaven, Snowy Owl, Naples.

Still neat names lol

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, wcreek said:

Interesting I suppose.

It's intriguing how Intel has been challenged by getting down to 10nm. Samsung apparently is down to 10nm.

 

At this point, I kinda wonder if AMD will beat Intel to 10nm. I know what AMD is releasing now is 14nm. But it might not be impossible for them to get down to 10nm before Intel if they raise enough funds through their various product lines to beef up their R&D for both CPUs and GPUs. Kinda put monies earned from AMD and RTG into a sort of pot that'll go to ramp up their R&D for CPUs and GPUs.

Computer CPUs need higher clocks, which can be more of an issue than we realize. Also, the names don't mean all that much. You start getting into wonky discussions about Gates when you try to talk about names. The transistors themselves are actually still a lot bigger than 10 nm.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, wcreek said:

Well there's over 100,000 lakes in the province of Manitoba and over 10,000 in the state of Minnesota. Combined, Intel could get 110,000 additional names.

 

Actually it appears they have taken some inspiration from names of real lakes.
Cannon Lake and Ice Lake are lakes right here in Minnesota.

 

Alas I can't seem to find lakes named Kaby Lake or Coffee Lake.
There is however, a city in Florida called Sky Lake.

 

Idk I guess I like AMD's current naming conventions.
Bristol Ridge, Summit Ridge, Raven Ridge.

Well there are a few outliers I suppose... Whitehaven, Snowy Owl, Naples.

Still neat names lol

Zeppelin was the internal codename for the ES samples for Ryzen. Current Raven Ridge APUs have names like Mandolin. The ES stuff has more hilarious names because they have so many of them. Roadmap names for AMD's server CPUs are going to be taken from Italian cities. 

 

I think Intel's recent "Lakes" scheme has been less interesting. 

[Scionyde]

I'm assuming that this now two month-old rumor is no longer correct given more recent news/leaks?

[handymanshandle]

4 hours ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Computer CPUs need higher clocks, which can be more of an issue than we realize. Also, the names don't mean all that much. You start getting into wonky discussions about Gates when you try to talk about names. The transistors themselves are actually still a lot bigger than 10 nm.

Ah yeah names don't mean much lol. 

 

I would still find it quite interesting if AMD got to 10nm before Intel. I mean highly doubtful but hey, who knows.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, wcreek said:

Ah yeah names don't mean much lol. 

 

I would still find it quite interesting if AMD got to 10nm before Intel. I mean highly doubtful but hey, who knows.

GloFo's "7nm" is claimed to be roughly the same as Intel's "10nm", but neither of them are really those sizes. At this point, it's far less to do with the specific size and much more about uArch, cores, costs, clocks and efficiency. AMD will be on 7nm in 2019. Late 2018 if everything with Zen2 goes smoothly. Intel will be shipping their first 10nm in Q4 this year. Consumer Desktop is going to be H2 2018. So Intel will die shrink before AMD, however that doesn't necessarily mean much. There's no real rumbling about Icelake being this monster uArch, so I imagine we're going to see a 7-10% IPC bump over Coffee Lake, at best.  However, we don't know top clock speeds yet, so, well, what does that all mean?

[cj09beira]

6 hours ago, wcreek said:

Interesting I suppose.

It's intriguing how Intel has been challenged by getting down to 10nm. Samsung apparently is down to 10nm.

 

At this point, I kinda wonder if AMD will beat Intel to 10nm. I know what AMD is releasing now is 14nm. But it might not be impossible for them to get down to 10nm before Intel if they raise enough funds through their various product lines to beef up their R&D for both CPUs and GPUs. Kinda put monies earned from AMD and RTG into a sort of pot that'll go to ramp up their R&D for CPUs and GPUs.

amd makes their cpus at private foundrys, so i dont think they can do much to speed up the process,

Global Foundry's 7nm will be ready late 2018, but before that we might get a ryzen+ on 14nm+ with hopefully better clocks as that is the only thing pulling ryzen back from completely rekting intel.