BitsAndChips: entry-level Threadripper 16c/32t to come at the nice low price of $849

[Ordinarily_Greater]

3 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

Only source I have is BitsAndChips' Twitter:

 

 

 

He adds in one of the comments:

 

That's pretty damn low if you ask me. Then again, it is multiple smaller dies making up the CPU unlike Intel who goes for one massive chip. And with yields of the 8-core Ryzen CPU apparently at 80% for all 8-core SKUs (meaning 6- and 4-core CPUs are perfectly functioning 8-core dies with functioning cores cut off) this allows AMD to be very, very aggressive with pricing.

 

All good stuff. But then again, one massive bastard of a rumour. Nothing concrete at all.

@$849? I7-6850K was at there I think

[Sauron]

15 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

 

Wonder how toasty the middle will get. Imagine mounting a cooler to find there's a hotspot in one corner. lol

I would assume coolers designed for that socket will bear that in mind

[DildorTheDecent]

14 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Probably still a lot cooler than the unsoldered 18 core Intel lol...

Thermal paste is a superior material especially when going cold. 

 

Solder ends up getting little tiny cracks in it when it gets chilly. 

 

If you're buying an 18 core then you are also delidding it. That's the enthusiast way. Can't run scared forever. 

[Tenelia]

Again, it's really about the function of price. If the capital expenditure is low, AND the operating expenditure is low.... Then we have a winner. The quad die style is not an issue so long as 4 CPUs can still squeeze into a 2U rack.

[79wjd]

40 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

If you're buying an 18 core then you are also delidding it.

That is so far from the truth it's not even funny. 

59 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

Threadripper will be dual die.

It's dual Ryzen dies, which are already dual dies. So, Threadripper would be a quad die as it uses four CCXs.

[tlink]

would be amazing if true and it does make sense, by spreading it over individual silicon chips instead of all on one die they have a looot more room for manufacturing errors. i would definitely try to run a server on that puppy.

[Notional]

40 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

Thermal paste is a superior material especially when going cold. 

 

Solder ends up getting little tiny cracks in it when it gets chilly. 

 

If you're buying an 18 core then you are also delidding it. That's the enthusiast way. Can't run scared forever. 

And by chilly you mean -55c/-67f. Because that totally happens when you shut off your computer. No one is going to delid an 18 core Intel. 1. Because no one can afford it, and 2. because the few who can, won't take the risk of breaking the most expensive part you can get for a computer today.

[Coaxialgamer]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

That is so far from the truth it's not even funny. 

It's dual Ryzen dies, which are already dual dies. So, Threadripper would be a quad die as it uses four CCXs.

The chip found in the ryzen SKU's ( "zeppelin" module) is a single die . It consists of dual CCX , granted , but it is NOT a dual die . 

A single look at the die shot shows this .

Spoiler

 

In fact , both the CCX modules in the zeppelin die share a memory controller , uncore , arm core , controllers etc .

CCX !=die .

 

 

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, Coaxialgamer said:

The chip found in the ryzen SKU's ( "zeppelin" module) is a single die . It consists of dual CCX , granted , but it is NOT a dual die . 

A single look at the die shot shows this .

  Reveal hidden contents

 

In fact , both the CCX modules in the zeppelin die share a memory controller , uncore , arm core , controllers etc .

CCX !=die .

 

 

Each CCX has its own memory controller and cache. Technically it's a dual die, but the reason why multi-die chips have always been looked down upon is because of the inter-chip communication latency that occurs because not everything is being processed by the "same chip". Ryzen suffers from that. So Threadripper, for all intents and purposes, functions like a quad die CPU. 

[dexT]

That's about what I figured, thought $899 for cheapest 16c.

 

Might be an awesome deal if you can find one at launch.

[Coaxialgamer]

12 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Each CCX has its own memory controller and cache. Technically it's a dual die, but the reason why multi-die chips have always been looked down upon is because of the inter-chip communication latency that occurs because not everything is being processed by the "same chip". Ryzen suffers from that. So Threadripper, for all intents and purposes, is a quad die CPU. 

A CCX does not have it's own memory controller . It shares dual 64 bit ddr4 controllers with the other CCX .

The CCx layout shows this .

They also share other crucial components such as the northbridge , GMI and ARM cortex M5 .

They cannot operate individually . 

Sure , the cores in the zeppelin die are split up in two groups ( CCX ) and communicate through IF , and i can see similarities to a multi die approach , but it remains a monolithic die , fabbed at the same time.

The design choices that AMD made with Zen don't change that .

 

In fact , i believe the jaguar core shared a similar layout .

[pas008]

3 hours ago, rn8686 said:

If this is true, that could wreck any current Intel i7s/i9s for value. Would put Xeons in danger too, Intel may actually have to lower their prices for once. 

intel already has reported they expect this

 

now its just feeling out the market, which will take awhile considering all ryzen products arent out yet

[Notional]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Each CCX has its own memory controller and cache. Technically it's a dual die, but the reason why multi-die chips have always been looked down upon is because of the inter-chip communication latency that occurs because not everything is being processed by the "same chip". Ryzen suffers from that. So Threadripper, for all intents and purposes, functions like a quad die CPU. 

Ryzen is NOT technically a dual die. It's 1 physical die. As said, a CCX is NOT a die.

 

This is a dual die processor:

 

This is NOT a dual die processor (although it might look like it due to the 2 sheets of solder used):

[PlayStation 2]

Come to think of it, the $849 estimate sounds realistic.

[79wjd]

12 minutes ago, Notional said:

Ryzen is NOT technically a dual die. It's 1 physical die. As said, a CCX is NOT a die.

 

This is a dual die processor:

 

This is NOT a dual die processor (although it might look like it due to the 2 sheets of solder used):

And yet it performs exactly like a dual die because it suffers from the same latency issues of dual dies. 

[Taf the Ghost]

10 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

Come to think of it, the $849 estimate sounds realistic.

I had assumed the lowest model was going to be $549 to $599, though I was also expecting some 8 core model as the low SKU.  It really does seem like it'll be 10c, 12c, 14c & 16c parts with weaved pricing.  I'm still assuming that the top SKU is going to be either $1099 or $1199, but AMD might just go for the F-U move and put it at $998.

[Notional]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

And yet it performs exactly like a dual die because it suffers from the same latency issues of dual dies. 

1. The interconnect between the CCX' might introduce some latency, but nothing like an Intel dual die chip.

2. That doesn't make it dual die.

3. The latency within each CCX is lower than Intel, almost half. It only goes higher than Intel when doing cross CCX communication:

 

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Notional said:

1. The interconnect between the CCX' might introduce some latency, but nothing like an Intel dual die chip.

Okay, so AMD handled it better than Intel? That doesn't change the fact that there is still a latency issue when communicating between CCXs -- which has always been one of the big reasons why dual die configs are looked down upon. 

Quote

3. The latency within each CCX is lower than Intel, almost half. It only goes higher than Intel when doing cross CCX communication:

Well gee, I'd hope it wouldn't spike when communicating with other cores in the same complex. Bravo, AMDs engineers designed Ryzen to store data in the L3 cache where it's first/mainly being used. 

[tom_w141]

7 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I had assumed the lowest model was going to be $549 to $599, though I was also expecting some 8 core model as the low SKU.  It really does seem like it'll be 10c, 12c, 14c & 16c parts with weaved pricing.  I'm still assuming that the top SKU is going to be either $1099 or $1199, but AMD might just go for the F-U move and put it at $998.

There would never been an 8 core because thats Ryzen  

[Notional]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Okay, so AMD handled it better than Intel? That doesn't change the fact that there is still a latency issue when communicating between CCXs -- which has always been one of the big reasons why dual die configs are looked down upon. 

Well gee, I'd hope it wouldn't spike when communicating with other cores in the same complex. Bravo, AMDs engineers designed Ryzen to store data in the L3 cache where it's first/mainly being used. 

Yes AMD handled it better. Look at the products AMD offers now, and more importantly, the prices they offer them at compared to Intel.

 

There are pros and cons to each approach. One of the pros is that you can get a 4 CCX 16 core 32 thread CPU for less than 1k$. You have to pay 1700$ for an Intel 10 core right now.

 

There will always be latency when communicating between cores. As you can see that latency is almost twice as high on Intel. So it really depends on how the software utilizes the CPU. And let's be realistic here. If a piece of software can utilize 16 cores, it will be specialized enough to understand the architectures of the CPU's being used. Cross core communication will be a lot higher on few cores than many, so AMD's approach seems to be better. But again, it depends on the software.

[Coaxialgamer]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

And yet it performs exactly like a dual die because it suffers from the same latency issues of dual dies. 

Well the difference is the infinity fabric was designed with this in mind . From the ground up scailability between Core complexes and dies was a priority .

 

Past implementations of dual dies used the FSB for inter chip communication , and that bus was never designed with that in mind  ( it was supposed to be a way for the cpu to communicate with the north bridge ) . As such , early implementations , such as the pentium D was hastily put together to bring multi core CPU's to the market as fast as humanly possible . It was a sloppy approach , a bodge .

Bandwith and latency are far less of a concern on If too , be it by design and by physical proximity .

 

I mean , AMD themselves say inter CCX latency isn't a problem.

[Masada02]

Let's just get this out of the way.

 

Ryzen uses 1 die

Threadripper uses 2 dies

Epyc uses 4 dies

 

A die is a single piece of silicon produced during a single procedure. All of these chips use the same die design with each die having 2 CCX's and various amounts of cores enabled in each CCX. A CCX is NOT a die, it is essentially one half of the Ryzen die that holds half of the cores. 

 

Got it? OK, now let's move on.

 

 

If true, $849 for the base 16c/32t chip is quite the value. I'd imagine the 1998X is going to cost $1000 if all of this is to be believed.

[DildorTheDecent]

48 minutes ago, Notional said:

And by chilly you mean -55c/-67f. Because that totally happens when you shut off your computer. No one is going to delid an 18 core Intel. 1. Because no one can afford it, and 2. because the few who can, won't take the risk of breaking the most expensive part you can get for a computer today.

The people who will buy it are hardcore enthusiasts. And they will take the risk. These are guys who will probably end up phase or chilled water daily (inb4 that's not practical)

 

Event guys on custom water would consider a delid. Anything for performance. 

51 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That is so far from the truth it's not even funny. 

As if people running proper baller rigs are going to keep it on stock paste. Especially with an OC. Alright. 

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

Event guys on custom water would consider a delid. Anything for performance. 

As if people running proper baller rigs are going to keep it on stock paste. Especially with an OC. Alright. 

Yes, there are no question going to be enthusiasts who would delid.....but there's actually zero chance that would be the majority.

[Notional]

Just now, DildorTheDecent said:

The people who will buy it are hardcore enthusiasts. And they will take the risk. These are guys who will probably end up phase or chilled water daily (inb4 that's not practical)

 

Event guys on custom water would consider a delid. Anything for performance. 

As if people running proper baller rigs are going to keep it on stock paste. Especially with an OC. Alright. 

No water cooling setup would have any issue with soldered IHS. Even phase change wouldn't bring down the temps to -55c. Even if it goes to -35 or so, you won't get the CPU to 125c or even anywhere close to that anyways. So delidding makes no sense on soldered CPU's.

 

Again, the only situation where delidding a soldered CPU might make sense, is with LN2, if it even works on an exposed die. 

 

Either way, the point is that a soldered CPU is in no way a problem for anyone using the CPU normally.