Intel tells Core i7-7700K owners to stop overclocking

[Mira Yurizaki]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

soldering reduces maximum lifespan. Dont believe me? Read up on soldering.

How about you post some sources.

[Orangeator]

Just now, Prysin said:

soldering reduces maximum lifespan. Dont believe me? Read up on soldering.

Lazy but quick summary as to why soldering it reduces the life span? Never heard this before.

[Phate.exe]

8 minutes ago, RadiatingLight said:

TBH a 1600X would be a better comparison, as it's cheaper, but is higher clocked so it's good for games

Exactly why I bought one.  Those extra threads are going to be extremely useful for steam in home streaming.  Or doing whatever the hell else I want while playing a game.

 

It's not like we're talking skylake vs piledriver here.  Ryzen has genuinely good single-thread performance as well as more threads than I actually need.

[MrTiC]

3 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

I suppose it'd be good if you had a non Z/X mobo and wanted a little frequency bump without OC'ing. And K isn't too much more expensive. But still, you're right tbh. If you're not gonna OC, it makes no sense to buy a K CPU

Indeed, And srry about my other post it was uncalled for 

 

[NumLock21]

10 minutes ago, Prysin said:

soldering reduces maximum lifespan. Dont believe me? Read up on soldering.

Not for the bigger chips where soldering won't have that much of a affect on its lifespan.

[Prysin]

7 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

How about you post some sources.

how about you get off your lay bum learn to use some google foo. Like i had to. Or ask more nicely like the person below.

 

7 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Lazy but quick summary as to why soldering it reduces the life span? Never heard this before.

soldering uses multiple metals to bind together. As some wont bind to one another. there is copper, gold, titanium, zink and some other stuff. Layered in a sandwich. 

 

Over time, as you heat it up fast (going from zero to max load) you get heat spikes. As this heat travels extremely quickly through the metal, it suddenly causes the cooler to kick in and increase its cooling. Thus causing microfractures. Tiny nanometer and micrometer long cracks. Over time, the metal essentially becomes like a fractured windshield, molecularly. This wastly reduces the heat transfer capability over time, causing higher average heat, and much greater deterioration of the internals of the CPU. Eventually the CPU dies.

 

For gamers, this isnt an issue, as we usually swap out our CPUs frequently, but for business desktops, which has to last for years or even decades. The TIM that Intel is currently using is rated for extreme durability, rather then efficiency.

[Not_Sean]

13 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

No, I cannot. You are correct in that regard. Ryzen is much better for video editing and streaming.

And you can't actually tell me a Ryzen 7 can game nearly as well. 7700k has fewer faster cores. Only in a few cases like BF1 will Ryzen perform the same/better

I agree with you for gaming the 7700 is better, BUT it is not at all like the R7 is bad in anyway. The i7x's (X99) chips are also worse than the 7700k for gaming dodesn't stop gamers shoving them into the builds. Also the gap between the 7700 and R7 is more than small enough that as soon as the price gets bought into it you would be a idiot post R7 to buy a 7700 and thats not even counting the R5 line up.

 

Its like saying don't buy a 1080 because the Titan is just that much better, but in no way does the Titan make the 1080 a bad card, just not as good in the few fps which is already past what you need, if you have no budget grab a 7700 and Titan if you are not blessed with the gift of parents money or a damn good Income than AMD is winning in every regard, 

 

getting back on topic, yeah this is retarded from intel, as only reason I got a K was to overclock. 

 

[Prysin]

3 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Not for the bigger chips where soldering won't have that much of a affect on its lifespan.

Soldering effect is the same, regardless of chip size. Infact, bigger chips with more transistors should have higher solder degredation then smaller chips due to much larger heat output in the spikes.

[sof006]

Don't overclock our unlocked multiplier processor that totally wasn't designed to overclock...

 

Yeah... what?

[Not_Sean]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

Soldering effect is the same, regardless of chip size. Infact, bigger chips with more transistors should have higher solder degredation then smaller chips due to much larger heat output in the spikes.

would a good approach not be the solder the consumer CPU's as by the time that it breaks down we should already be a few gens on and just "lid" the enterprise grade CPU's ? the i7x's and Xeons ? 

[AntonChigurh]

23 hours ago, Not_Sean said:

I agree with you for gaming the 7700 is better, BUT it is not at all like the R7 is bad in anyway. The i7x's (X99) chips are also worse than the 7700k for gaming dodesn't stop gamers shoving them into the builds. Also the gap between the 7700 and R7 is more than small enough that as soon as the price gets bought into it you would be a idiot post R7 to buy a 7700 and thats not even counting the R5 line up.

 

Its like saying don't buy a 1080 because the Titan is just that much better, but in no way does the Titan make the 1080 a bad card, just not as good in the few fps which is already past what you need, if you have no budget grab a 7700 and Titan if you are not blessed with the gift of parents money or a damn good Income than AMD is winning in every regard, 

 

getting back on topic, yeah this is retarded from intel, as only reason I got a K was to overclock. 

 

No, you would definitely not be an idiot, considering the 7700k is still less expensive than an 1800, and the same price as a 1700, and does better in gaming. The only reason to get a Ryzen would be if you're doing productivity tasks also, and need a good mix between video rendering/working and gaming.

 

And true, AMD is king when it comes to budget builds.

[LAwLz]

People: My CPU that I delidded myself and overclocked is running hot! Intel fix this!

Intel: Well if you don't want it running hot then don't overclock it. Overclocking makes things run hotter. Also, please remember that overclocking voids your warranty, and so does delidding.

Media: INTEL TELLS CUSTOMERS TO STOP OVERCLOCKING!

People: OH MY GOD DID INTEL REALLY SAY THAT!?

 

It seems like the 7700K has some heat issue, especially when overclocked, but come on people... You can't overclock, complain about how hot the chip runs and then scream at Intel when they tell you that a chip runs cooler at stock.

 

Besides, overclocking has always voided your warranty, even with AMD chips. But neither Intel nor AMD has a way of checking if you have overclocked or not so it has (as far as I am aware) never come into play.

 

Quote from AMD Ryzen Community update #3:

Quote

1. WARNING: AMD processors, including chipsets, CPUs, APUs and GPUs (collectively and individually “AMD processor”), are intended to be operated only within their associated specifications and factory settings. Operating your AMD processor outside of official AMD specifications or outside of factory settings, including but not limited to the conducting of overclocking (including use of this overclocking software, even if such software has been directly or indirectly provided by AMD or an entity otherwise affiliated in any way with AMD), may damage your processor, affect the operation of your processor or the security features therein and/or lead to other problems, including but not limited to damage to your system components (including your motherboard and components thereon (e.g., memory)), system instabilities (e.g., data loss and corrupted images), reduction in system performance, shortened processor, system component and/or system life, and in extreme cases, total system failure. It is recommended that you save any important data before using the tool.  AMD does not provide support or service for issues or damages related to use of an AMD processor outside of official AMD specifications or outside of factory settings. You may also not receive support or service from your board or system manufacturer. Please make sure you have saved all important data before using this overclocking software. DAMAGES CAUSED BY USE OF YOUR AMD PROCESSOR OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL AMD SPECIFICATIONS OR OUTSIDE OF FACTORY SETTINGS ARE NOT COVERED UNDER ANY AMD PRODUCT WARRANTY AND MAY NOT BE COVERED BY YOUR BOARD OR SYSTEM MANUFACTURER’S WARRANTY.

 

Did people seriously not know this? Like, for real? People expected their warranty to cover overclocking too?

Just because you bought a processor that can overclock does not mean the manufacturer endorses it or cover it in the warranty.

 

Edit: And yes, some manufacturers will in fact cover warranty claims on products even if they have been overclocked. Those are fairly rare and exceptions rather than the norm though. One example of this is EVGA (or at least they used to).

[Dabombinable]

Ok....so they are worried about people overclocking Kabylake but not Haswell/Devil's Canyon. Because they have the same issue, but worse due to the FIVR....

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

No, you would definitely not be an idiot, considering the 7700k is still less expensive than an 1800/1700, and does better in gaming. The only reason to get a Ryzen would be if you're doing productivity tasks also, and need a good mix between video rendering/working and gaming.

 

And true, AMD is king when it comes to budget builds.

 

There are other reasons to get a Ryzen CPU. A 1600 will likely be beneficial in the future as games will probably benefit more from >4c/8t than from higher single core performance. I'd happily take a slight hit now for far more potential in the future, plus a 1600 is $100 cheaper.

[themctipers]

7 minutes ago, Prysin said:

how about you get off your lay bum learn to use some google foo. Like i had to. Or ask more nicely like the person below.

 

soldering uses multiple metals to bind together. As some wont bind to one another. there is copper, gold, titanium, zink and some other stuff. Layered in a sandwich. 

 

Over time, as you heat it up fast (going from zero to max load) you get heat spikes. As this heat travels extremely quickly through the metal, it suddenly causes the cooler to kick in and increase its cooling. Thus causing microfractures. Tiny nanometer and micrometer long cracks. Over time, the metal essentially becomes like a fractured windshield, molecularly. This wastly reduces the heat transfer capability over time, causing higher average heat, and much greater deterioration of the internals of the CPU. Eventually the CPU dies.

 

For gamers, this isnt an issue, as we usually swap out our CPUs frequently, but for business desktops, which has to last for years or even decades. The TIM that Intel is currently using is rated for extreme durability, rather then efficiency.

for intel to stop this whole 'solder your fucking cpus' thing, couldn't they just easily have 2 lines of their core x?

 

for example: any cpu sku that isn't 'k' should use paste

but if you're getting a 7600k, 7700k, that i3 that can overclock, you should be getting soldered die (as you would be overclocking anyways)

[Mira Yurizaki]

6 minutes ago, Prysin said:

how about you get off your lay bum learn to use some google foo. Like i had to. Or ask more nicely like the person below.

If you're going to tell me to read, you're going to come off on me as lazy yourself, because you clearly took the time to write it and you could've saved us all the trouble of going through this.

6 minutes ago, Prysin said:

soldering uses multiple metals to bind together. As some wont bind to one another. there is copper, gold, titanium, zink and some other stuff. Layered in a sandwich. 

 

Over time, as you heat it up fast (going from zero to max load) you get heat spikes. As this heat travels extremely quickly through the metal, it suddenly causes the cooler to kick in and increase its cooling. Thus causing microfractures. Tiny nanometer and micrometer long cracks. Over time, the metal essentially becomes like a fractured windshield, molecularly. This wastly reduces the heat transfer capability over time, causing higher average heat, and much greater deterioration of the internals of the CPU. Eventually the CPU dies.

 

For gamers, this isnt an issue, as we usually swap out our CPUs frequently, but for business desktops, which has to last for years or even decades. The TIM that Intel is currently using is rated for extreme durability, rather then efficiency.

And the only source I could find is http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/ And while they make a great case, it doesn't explain how previous soldered processors (which, you know, is everything before Ivy Bridge) are still working just fine.

 

But since I have a feeling I just threw a rock at a hornet's nest, I'm going to walk away from this now.

[AntonChigurh]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

My bad, I was thinking of Ryzen launch prices. I forgot how much they've dropped. The 1700X was like $399 at launch

[Dabombinable]

8 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

People: My CPU that I delidded myself and overclocked is running hot! Intel fix this!

Intel: Well if you don't want it running hot then don't overclock it. Overclocking makes things run hotter. Also, please remember that overclocking voids your warranty, and so does delidding.

Media: INTEL TELLS CUSTOMERS TO STOP OVERCLOCKING!

People: OH MY GOD DID INTEL REALLY SAY THAT!?

 

It seems like the 7700K has some heat issue, especially when overclocked, but come on people... You can't overclock, complain about how hot the chip runs and then scream at Intel when they tell you that a chip runs cooler at stock.

 

Besides, overclocking has always voided your warranty, even with AMD chips. But neither Intel nor AMD has a way of checking if you have overclocked or not so it has (as far as I am aware) never come into play.

 

Quote from AMD Ryzen Community update #3:

 

Did people seriously not know this? Like, for real? People expected their warranty to cover overclocking too?

Unfortunately its not the way it was in the 90's with the Celeron, those could reliably take a 50% overclock at the stock voltage (and match far more expensive Pentium II), while lasting just as long.

 

Edit:

Spoiler

Though when the motherboard was utter shit and limited memory bandwidth by about 1/4th to 1/5th of what it should have been, raw clock speed was the only performance factor.

 

[RadiatingLight]

1 minute ago, N1ghtshade said:

My bad, I was thinking of Ryzen launch prices. I forgot how much they've dropped. The 1700X was like $399 at launch

the 1700 non X was $329 at launch tho

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

My bad, I was thinking of Ryzen launch prices. I forgot how much they've dropped. The 1700X was like $399 at launch

The 1700x/1800x never made sense with the 1700 around, and the 1700 launched for (ever so slightly) less than a 7700k.

[NumLock21]

7 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Soldering effect is the same, regardless of chip size. Infact, bigger chips with more transistors should have higher solder degredation then smaller chips due to much larger heat output in the spikes.

 

Quote

 

The micro cracks will also decrease the thermal conductivity but will especially increase the thermal resistance at the corner of the DIE. Without the gold layer between diffusion barrier and solder preform, delamination of the solder preform would occure after few thermal cycles. Micro cracks occur after about 200 to 300 thermal cycles. A thermal cycle is performed by going from -55 °C to 125 °C while each temperature is hold for 15 minutes. The micro cracks will grow over time and can damage the CPU permanently if the thermal resistance increases too much or the solder preform cracks completely.

Void and micro crack occurrence is mainly affected by the solder area – thus the DIE size. Small DIE size (below 130 mm²) e. g. Skylake will facilitate the void occurence significantly. However, CPUs with a medium to large DIE size (above 270 mm²) e. g. Haswell-E show no significant increase of micro cracking during thermal cycling (Figure 12).

Figure 12: Thermal resistance (Rjc) is increasing after intensive thermal cycling. Small DIE is affected much more than medium size DIE.

 

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

[AntonChigurh]

Just now, RadiatingLight said:

the 1700 non X was $329 at launch tho

Same price as a 7700k. Again, my fault, as I remembered it as being a little more expensive, even though it wasn't.

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

The 1700x/1800x never made sense with the 1700 around. 

Yeah, I never got that. Like I could see if AMD did what Intel does and made it so X models were overclockable and non X wasn't, but they just made the X models slightly faster, for quite a bit more. It made no sense.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

Yeah, I never got that. Like I could see if AMD did what Intel does and made it so X models were overclockable and non X wasn't, but they just made the X models slightly faster, for quite a bit more. It made no sense.

The entire FX series was the same thing, and the FX 9590 launched at $900. The R9 270/270x was also the same thing.

[Dabombinable]

Actually, is it just me or does Devil's Canyon have a better TIM+IHS setup than Kabylake? Because it has an effective higher TDP+power consumption due to the FIVR, and can reach 4.8GHz @ 1.35V with a 120mm AIO that is working correctly (mine leaked/had the water evaporate so R.I.P Seidon 120V). And hit 4.6GHz safely on a Pentium 4 540J's (Presscott/Presshott) stock cooler with 6.8 W/(mK) thermal grease (gotta love Meccano, it has all that you need to adapt LGA775 coolers safely).

[AntonChigurh]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

The entire FX series was the same thing, and the FX 9590 launched at $900.

Hold up

 

$900

 

For a 9590?

 

What the fuck was AMD thinking?