Intel tells Core i7-7700K owners to stop overclocking

[AntonChigurh]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Read the article...:

http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/

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Micro cracks in solder preforms can damage the CPU permanently after a certain amount of thermal cycles and time. Conventional thermal paste doesn’t perform as good as the solder preform but it should have a longer durability – especially for small size DIE CPUs.

 

Ohh I must have missed that part. I saw where he was talking about the cracks in the die but I missed where he said "especially for small die CPUs". My bad haha  *facepalm*

[Jito463]

30 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

Once devs start developing games that really take advantage of high core count CPUs, then you can come to me and say "neener neener I was right". Until then, it is speculation. You cannot objectively say it will happen, as you can't predict the future.

I do agree with you, though I will add that with AMD providing the processors for the consoles (apart from the Switch), there's a much greater chance of high core count being better utilized in future games.  Which is very likely why they made the push into consoles to begin with.  Not so much for the profit (since there's very little margin on them), but for the ability to shape future game development.

[AntonChigurh]

Just now, Jito463 said:

I do agree with you, though I will add that with AMD providing the processors for the consoles (apart from the Switch), there's a much greater chance of high core count being better utilized in future games.  Which is very likely why they made the push into consoles to begin with.  Not so much for the profit (since there's very little margin on them), but for the ability to shape future game development.

Eh, I'd say it's kind of a toss-up. Yeah, AMD has a huge hold in the console market, but Intel has a huge hold in the PC market. Probably what we're gonna see is a clash between some devs trying to make use of AMD's extra cores, and some devs trying to make games that'll run better with Intel's fewer, faster cores. And hmm, you just might be right. I hadn't considered that.

[ravneillal]

I was planning to go intel this year but this kinds of responses make me lean towards Ryzen

[MCI_Quinn]

Right, so i'm gonna buy a K and not use my H100... come on intel.

[Trik'Stari]

2 hours ago, MCI_Quinn said:

Right, so i'm gonna buy a K and not use my H100... come on intel.

I'm using an H100i V2 and I just played Fallout 4, heavily modded, for an hour.

 

Max temp with just Turbo boost on was 64C, but at 4503 MHz according to HWMonitor

[MCI_Quinn]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

I'm using an H100i V2 and I just played Fallout 4, heavily modded, for an hour.

 

Max temp with just Turbo boost on was 64C, but at 4503 MHz according to HWMonitor

Thats not bad, those V2's are nice.

[GTBTK]

What is the bet that the up coming Kaby Lake X i7-7740K CPU has a soldered heat spreader and has a default base clock of 5Ghz or more?

 

It sounds like there are setting up the new CPU they are about to release to give it a reason to exist.

 

I can imagine the marketing will go along the lines of "engineered for world record overclocking"

[79wjd]

11 minutes ago, GTBTK said:

What is the bet that the up coming Kaby Lake X i7-7740K CPU has a soldered heat spreader and has a default base clock of 5Ghz or more?

 

It sounds like there are setting up the new CPU they are about to release to give it a reason to exist.

 

I can imagine the marketing will go along the lines of "engineered for world record overclocking"

Considering the 7740k is supposed to be on the HEDT platform, I would expect it to be soldered as the die is much larger.

[GTBTK]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

Considering the 7740k is supposed to be on the HEDT platform, I would expect it to be soldered as the die is much larger.

Yes I am aware of that.

Have you ever heard Intel mention that in its marketing information for the HEDT platform before?

I think that soldered heat spreaders will now become a marketing bullet point for overclockers

 

They have to come up with something to make a 4 core chip on the HEDT platform appear desirable. If it suddenly becomes "too dangerous" to overclock 7700K CPUs it makes it a load easier to direct people to the 7740K instread

[79wjd]

4 hours ago, GTBTK said:

Yes I am aware of that.

Have you ever heard Intel mention that in its marketing information for the HEDT platform before?

I think that soldered heat spreaders will now become a marketing bullet point for overclockers

 

They have to come up with something to make a 4 core chip on the HEDT platform appear desirable. If it suddenly becomes "too dangerous" to overclock 7700K CPUs it makes it a load easier to direct people to the 7740K instread

I'm still hoping that they cut the cost of a 7740k dramatically compared to a 7700k and make up the profit difference on the more expensive X199 chipset -- that way they encourage users to get on the HEDT platform (where they'll hopefully upgrade to a better X199 chip) while not affecting Intel's bottom line too much. Although the more interesting now is that the 8700k is rumored to be a 6c/12t chip....so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. 

[Trik'Stari]

11 hours ago, MCI_Quinn said:

Thats not bad, those V2's are nice.

Bout to build a custom loop actually. 480mm and 120mm radiator for both GPU and CPU. Can't wait to see what the 1080ti does when water cooled

[tom_w141]

17 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

Totally 100%. Once devs start developing games that really take advantage of high core count CPUs, then you can come to me and say "neener neener I was right". Until then, it is speculation. You cannot objectively say it will happen, as you can't predict the future.

 

And you're dumb, you literally just sent me to a page full of 1151 mobos. Congrats, you played yourself.

 

And there's only 2 pages of AM4 coolers... whereas there's 7 pages of LGA coolers...

 

M8 I get it you like Ryzen. I do too. But when you link someone to a site that disproves your own point, that's a little sad...

 

 

And yeah, I know there will be. But we're talking right now. Plus, by the end of the year there still won't be as much mITX AM4 selection as there is miTX LGA1151

 

 

Sorry what actually happened was that link shows motherboards for whatever your last build was and ofc yours was Intel. My bad there on the link should have looked more closely.

 

You keep mentioning less available products are you dense? AM4 is BRAND NEW it takes time to release new products for a platform that is 2 months old. Ofc there are pages and pages of LGA1151 its several YEARS OLD.

[tom_w141]

17 hours ago, N1ghtshade said:

 some devs trying to make games that'll run better with Intel's fewer, faster cores.

That would an example of devs deliberately holding progress back which is unlikely as devs don't have anything to do with hardware they just use what is available to them. Quad cores became common and they were utilised. Yes 6/8 cores have been here since bulldozer but because the architecture was shit I can understand why you wouldn't bother. However Ryzen is not shit and will make 6/8 cores common place therefore you should see in the future devs making this move like they did when quad cores became common. Coffee lake is hotly tipped to feature a 6 core for the mainstream user which is a further indicator of time to move on. The quad core stagnation was simply because Intel got lazy because they had no competition for years. Look where complacency got them: Their own Pentium eliminates the need for i3s, R5s desotry i5s for price/performance and future usefulness and they killed their own i7 7700k by saying oh don't overclock it because we continued to squeeze money out of consumers by massively cheaping out on the TIM  sorry... Wonder how long consumers will let Intel make fools out of them.

[AntonChigurh]

57 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

Sorry what actually happened was that link shows motherboards for whatever your last build was and ofc yours was Intel. My bad there on the link should have looked more closely.

 

You keep mentioning less available products are you dense? AM4 is BRAND NEW it takes time to release new products for a platform that is 2 months old. Ofc there are pages and pages of LGA1151 its several YEARS OLD.

That's ok haha  I've done that a time or two myself

 

And yes, I know this. That doesn't change anything. AM4 is new, meaning it doesn't have as much selection. But the thing is, it most likely still won't be ass supported as LGA socket in a few years just because Intel has such a huge hold on the industry and Ryzen is an up-and-coming platform

[AntonChigurh]

51 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

That would an example of devs deliberately holding progress back which is unlikely as devs don't have anything to do with hardware they just use what is available to them. Quad cores became common and they were utilised. Yes 6/8 cores have been here since bulldozer but because the architecture was shit I can understand why you wouldn't bother. However Ryzen is not shit and will make 6/8 cores common place therefore you should see in the future devs making this move like they did when quad cores became common. Coffee lake is hotly tipped to feature a 6 core for the mainstream user which is a further indicator of time to move on. The quad core stagnation was simply because Intel got lazy because they had no competition for years. Look where complacency got them: Their own Pentium eliminates the need for i3s, R5s desotry i5s for price/performance and future usefulness and they killed their own i7 7700k by saying oh don't overclock it because we continued to squeeze money out of consumers by massively cheaping out on the TIM  sorry... Wonder how long consumers will let Intel make fools out of them.

It's not deliberately holding progress back, it's making sure everyone can play the game to it's full potential. I only see the move to 6/8 core CPUs happening if Intel also adopts a high core count model with Coffee Lake. Which I hope happens, because that'd be pretty sweet to have super fast Intel CPUs with the same high core counts as Ryzen. And I do have to agree with Intel being lazy though. Intel knew they were dominating the market so they just put their feet up and said fuck it. And now they're scrambling to respond to Ryzen with Coffee Lake. Hopefully Coffee Lake can compete and Intel doesn't release an unfinished product just so they can respond to Ryzen. And they didn't kill the 7700k, but that was fucking dumb of them to tell people not to overclock it.

 

Intel: "Oh yeah pay out the ass for this CPU/mobo so you can OC"

Consumer: "Sounds good, i'm gonna overclock"

Intel: "No wait fuck you don't do that"

 

Intel is retarded.

 

 

And Intel has been trying to make the consumer hold the bag for some time, but AMD has made some equally stupid moves. Like for instance, I believe at one of the speeches about Ryzen, Lisa Su implied that the 7700k was a joke in comparison, and that Ryzen buolds would be "The dream gaming PC", and smirked when the 7700k was mentioned. The fucking gall of her.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, N1ghtshade said:

It's not deliberately holding progress back, it's making sure everyone can play the game to it's full potential.

By that logic why do game devs keep pushing GPU specs up? They could easily not improve textures/graphics that way everyone gets to play the game at 4k ultra 144fps. 

 

I wouldn't say they are deliberatley holding back progress, but rather it's a limitation of the nature of programming. It's a lot more work to make a game highly threaded -- now at some point they don't have a choice and are forced to program for the next tier, but until those moments happens it's easier/cheaper to just code for a single core. 

[Crazy Ginger]

I wonder if because of this, Intel will release a "devil's canyon" varient of the 7700k (a 7790k, just like what Intel did with the 4790k).  

[79wjd]

Just now, Crazy Ginger said:

I wonder if because of this, Intel will release a "devil's canyon" varient of the 7700k (a 7790k, just like what Intel did with the 4790k).  

The 7700k basically is Devil's Canyon

[Crazy Ginger]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The 7700k basically is Devil's Canyon

What I mean is that I feel that Intel is probably going to make another version of the 7700k that is the same, but with a better thermal design just like they did by replacing the 4770k with the 4790k

[79wjd]

Just now, Crazy Ginger said:

What I mean is that I feel that Intel is probably going to make another version of the 7700k that is the same, but with a better thermal design just like they did with the 4700k

I understood what you meant, but the 7700k is just a refresh of a 6700k with some slight tweaks.

[Bleedingyamato]

 

On May 4, 2017 at 4:22 PM, LAwLz said:

People: My CPU that I delidded myself and overclocked is running hot! Intel fix this!

Intel: Well if you don't want it running hot then don't overclock it. Overclocking makes things run hotter. Also, please remember that overclocking voids your warranty, and so does delidding.

Media: INTEL TELLS CUSTOMERS TO STOP OVERCLOCKING!

People: OH MY GOD DID INTEL REALLY SAY THAT!?

 

It seems like the 7700K has some heat issue, especially when overclocked, but come on people... You can't overclock, complain about how hot the chip runs and then scream at Intel when they tell you that a chip runs cooler at stock.

 

Besides, overclocking has always voided your warranty, even with AMD chips. But neither Intel nor AMD has a way of checking if you have overclocked or not so it has (as far as I am aware) never come into play.

 

Quote from AMD Ryzen Community update #3:

 

Did people seriously not know this? Like, for real? People expected their warranty to cover overclocking too?

Just because you bought a processor that can overclock does not mean the manufacturer endorses it or cover it in the warranty.

 

Edit: And yes, some manufacturers will in fact cover warranty claims on products even if they have been overclocked. Those are fairly rare and exceptions rather than the norm though. One example of this is EVGA (or at least they used to).

I thought Intel warranties its K CPUs for overclocking?    That if it dies after being OC'd you can just RMA it for a new CPU.  

 

On May 4, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Dabombinable said:

Ok....so they are worried about people overclocking Kabylake but not Haswell/Devil's Canyon. Because they have the same issue, but worse due to the FIVR....

FIVR, what's that?

[AntonChigurh]

3 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

By that logic why do game devs keep pushing GPU specs up? They could easily not improve textures/graphics that way everyone gets to play the game at 4k ultra 144fps. 

 

I wouldn't say they are deliberatley holding back progress, but rather it's a limitation of the nature of programming. It's a lot more work to make a game highly threaded -- now at some point they don't have a choice and are forced to program for the next tier, but until those moments happens it's easier/cheaper to just code for a single core. 

Because the advancement of GPUs and their power is much different from the advancement of CPUs.

 

And you're right, but imho I think devs are trying to achieve the best balance between good graphics and playability. I mean, what if we got another Crysis, where the game was so demanding and tough to run that it became a complete meme? It would be kind of unfair for everyone who doesn't have a Titan X and a 6950x or some shit and can't run the game well. Which means not as many people would buy the game.

[PCGuy_5960]

6 hours ago, tom_w141 said:

i7 7700k by saying oh don't overclock it because we continued to squeeze money out of consumers by massively cheaping out on the TIM  sorry...

Intel uses this TIM for its durability, not for its amazing thermal performance. AFAIK, the thermal paste they use is very resistant to thermal shock and it lasts for a long time. BTW, soldering is not an option (http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/)

And FYI, the thermal paste is fine, but Intel uses excessive amounts of adhesive, so the IHS doesn't make good contact with the CPU die. If you delid the CPU and don't remove the adhesive, you will still have the same problem.

@done12many2 knows more about this

[tom_w141]

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Intel uses this TIM for its durability, not for its amazing thermal performance. AFAIK, the thermal paste they use is very resistant to thermal shock and it lasts for a long time. BTW, soldering is not an option (http://overclocking.guide/the-truth-about-cpu-soldering/)

And FYI, the thermal paste is fine, but Intel uses excessive amounts of adhesive, so the IHS doesn't make good contact with the CPU die. If you delid the CPU and don't remove the adhesive, you will still have the same problem.

@done12many2 knows more about this

I know this, did you mean to quote me? I delidded a 6700k for this reason  Yes I know why they do it but for a K model advertised as unlocked for overclocking they should solder the IHS imo. You can't say something is unlocked and overclockable and then say no don't overclock it because we didn't design it to perform well thermally.