Do you agree with nVidia's GPU pricing... - IT HAS DOUBLED!

[App4that]

1 minute ago, YoloSwag said:

I'm lost. Isn't the GTX 1080 the real successor to the GTX 980? so the launch price should be the same(???)

Names mean nothing, just how much performance you get at a price point. 

 

RX 480 == R9 390

 

GTX 1060 == GTX 980

[App4that]

1 minute ago, DocSwag said:

To be fair an rx 480~same price as 380, and performs around 50-60% better.

Not around here. You could pick up a 380x for right around 200 bucks

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, YoloSwag said:

I'm lost. Isn't the GTX 1080 the real successor to the GTX 980? so the launch price should be the same(???)

In theory it should be. In reality, the GTX 980 had an MSRP of $550 USD whilst the GTX 1080 has an MSRP of $599 (non FE) or $699 (FE)

[DocSwag]

4 minutes ago, App4that said:

Not around here. You could pick up a 380x for right around 200 bucks

Still though, even then the performance increase is around 40-50%

[App4that]

Just now, DocSwag said:

Still though, even then the performance increase is around 40-50%

Not really, not when compared to a 380x. Good 30%, 40 on the right title. 

 

But Nvidia shows the same improvements across the same price points. 

[Deli]

4 minutes ago, App4that said:

Not around here. You could pick up a 380x for right around 200 bucks

They drop the price of the 380X. It was higher before the launch of Polaris. Just like you can find a Sapphire Fury for $260 now.

 

Second, the average price of RX480 8GB is around $250-260. Not $300.

[AlTech]

3 minutes ago, App4that said:

Not around here. You could pick up a 380x for right around 200 bucks

The RX 480 is also the successor to the 380X. AMD said that the 8GB RX 480 was the successor of the R9 380X.

 

5 minutes ago, App4that said:

Names mean nothing, just how much performance you get at a price point. 

 

RX 480 == R9 390

Performance remained the same but the price of the performance came down from around $400 to around $200.

5 minutes ago, App4that said:

GTX 1060 == GTX 980

Performance is around the same as well but the price came down from $550 to $250.

 

Just now, App4that said:

Not really, not when compared to a 380x. Good 30%, 40 on the right title. 

 

But Nvidia shows the same improvements across the same price points. 

They were the same price point at launch.

[MageTank]

6 hours ago, WhiteSkyMage said:

Alright guys,

Many of you are hyped for that GTX 1080Ti right? You expect it to cost what? $700? $800? Even $900? Many of you bought GTX 1070, because you thought it's the best price/performance ratio.... actually, it all seems to be wrong for me when I look at things, the way they were and the way they are now. 

Look back in history and tell me, what was the price of GTX 480? What was it's price. As I remember having one of those, it was somewhere around $500. By the way - This was a 1st Tier GPU! Yes, 1st tier, meaning the best performance GPU from that generation. It was a TITAN effectively. What happened after that in the 600 series Kepler cards? They launched a GTX Titan and marketed it as a "compute" card, somewhere between professional and consumer. It's price was $1000. Great, but it was also a cut down version! Yet we had GTX 680 which was a what $600 GPU? OK so in that case, our 1st tier GPU was not really meant for gaming, or it was more of a prof. Fine, but came in Maxwell and guess what - all of that double precision stuff was off, and so the Titan X was marketed at GAMING! For $1000?! How did it happen so quickly? And this Titan XP as well - still marketed for gamers, and this time for $1200. Yet even now you expect that a Ti card would cost $700 or more, so wait a second mate, how did it go up so quickly? From $500 1st tier, best GPU of the line up, now was $1200, or $700+ (cut down). How did this become the norm?

 

So if you bought a Titan XP, could you tell, what would be your maximum price that you would pay for a GPU in the next generations. Because nVidia will not stay with that price - oh no, they have the taste of money, they will try and ask more. $2000? $3000 maybe? 

 

Heck this is one reason why I think the Vega 10 is a better option for upgrading, not the GTX 1080Ti. AMD does place their GPUs well within the price/performance ratio, and the fact that GTX 970 is no longer, nor the GTX 1070 a price/perf king, no, only an RX480 is. Look at the pricing and you will see. But it is the nameshare that nvidia's marketing that makes people think that those prices of GPUs are NORMAL, when it fact, it's all overpriced. After a couple of years, and noone cares, so they sell like cup cakes. So they overprice them once again. Let me tell you what would be a correct price if you really want a GTX 1080Ti - NO MORE than $600. NO more than that. Even that is pushing it. Ask for $500. GTX 480 was a 1st tier, and was a $500.

Some videos and sources I think you might wanna see, this just as a support for my raging over.

 

Ignoring every other post in this thread (I don't have time for a 3 page long fanwar) and only going by what I know, I can say this: Nobody has ever bought an x80 card for MSRP price, with Price:Performance on their mind. They have NEVER been the price:performance cards. They paid a premium for those cards, simply because they wanted the best, the bragging rights, the e-credit, everything that came with owning a halo-tier card. The original Titan was the bridge between a gaming and compute card, as you yourself correctly stated. The Maxwell-Titan however, was a mockery of the original, and every enthusiast knew it. That being said, it's high cost was again, due to the premium of owning owning "the best of the best". No rational consumer bought one.

 

The biggest piece of information to factor in when comparing older hardware prices to newer hardware prices, is inflation. Using an inflation calculator, a $500 card in 2010, would cost $553 in 2016. The GTX 1080 is not too far off of that, coming in at $600 MSRP (non founders). A 10% increase after 5 years. The GTX 980 actually launched at $549, which was basically the exact same with no inflation. You can't exactly make a fair comparison of a cutdown GF104 quadro with no compute, to a cutdown GK110 WITH compute, and say "both are high end, it's apples to apples". In this case, it's apples vs genetically enhanced, steroid pumped mutant apples with mustaches and sunglasses. A card that fits two niches at the same time. That, and you can't compare GK104 (GTX 680) against GK110 (Titan) just because both are Kepler. They are still two very different cards. The 780 is the correct comparison to make in that regard, being the cutdown GK110. 

 

Oh, and from one Mage to another, avoid rabid fans. Threads like these are their breeding grounds.

[DocSwag]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

Not really, not when compared to a 380x. Good 30%, 40 on the right title. 

 

But Nvidia shows the same improvements across the same price points. 

380x launched at $240 ish anyways.

[App4that]

6 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The RX 480 is also the successor to the 380X. AMD said that the 8GB RX 480 was the successor of the R9 380X.

 

Performance remained the same but the price of the performance came down from around $400 to around $200.

Performance is around the same as well but the price came down from $550 to $250.

 

They were the same price point at launch.

Brother, your mistake was not knowing I owned a Vapor X 290 and Nitro 390. My Nitro 390 was 300 even. The OC version with a backplate. That was right at launch, no where near 400 buck.

 

You trippin

[App4that]

6 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

380x launched at $240 ish anyways.

They had them all the time at 200 even or just over. Region difference though. 

[YoloSwag]

A good challenge in terms of pricing is incoming for AMD as Vega is about to be released. If you guys have heard, news has been circulating recently that there wouldn't be any top tier RX 400s and Vega will launch a full lineup (rumours about it launching with not just HBM2 but also GDDR5X and GDDR5).

 

If this rumour is true it means that the Polaris RX 400s will be replaced. We'll get to see first hand how AMD will price the previous RX 400s to make way for the next generation. That is if the rumours are true. Nvidia's next gen, is still a long way ahead.

[YoloSwag]

2 minutes ago, App4that said:

Brother, your mistake was not knowing I owned a Vapor X 290 and Nitro 390. My Nitro 390 was 300 even. The OC version with a backplate. That was right at launch, no where near 400 buck.

 

You trippin

I actually remember this.

[Cheddle]

What if I told you.

That the GP102 isn't even pushing the tech to its very edge... look at the die size and cuda count... If Nvidia NEEDED to make a more powerful Pascal card - they could. Easily. with zero innovation required. It wouldn't surprise me if its in a glass box labelled "break in case of Vega".

 

Nvidia are operating in a tech industry where innovation no longer leads to success - its marketing that leads to success - and its easy to see that the last 3 generations of Nvidia products have been heavily influenced by their Marketing team (I mean , cmon... 1920 and 2560 cuda core counts? plz) 

AMD plz response.

[App4that]

1 minute ago, Cheddle said:

What if I told you.

That the GP102 isn't even pushing the tech to its very edge... look at the die size and cuda count... If Nvidia NEEDED to make a more powerful Pascal card - they could. Easily. with zero innovation required. It wouldn't surprise me if its in a glass box labelled "break in case of Vega".

 

Nvidia are operating in a tech industry where innovation no longer leads to success - its marketing that leads to success - and its easy to see that the last 3 generations of Nvidia products have been heavily influenced by their Marketing team (I mean , cmon... 1920 and 2560 cuda core counts? plz) 

AMD plz response.

AMD did respond, in kind with marketing. Look at the people convinced of Buddy AMD. 

[Cheddle]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

AMD did respond, in kind with marketing. Look at the people convinced of Buddy AMD. 

Team red - join the red rebellion - etc...

 

To be honest Nvidia probably pushed more people to the red team than the red team earned themselves...

[App4that]

1 minute ago, Cheddle said:

Team red - join the red rebellion - etc...

 

To be honest Nvidia probably pushed more people to the red team than the red team earned themselves...

Actually, look at the stocks. AMD has risen but not like Nvidia. AMD markets to a smaller group, that group has a limited view and understanding of whats happening. Mostly because they refuse to acknowledge anything that contradicts that view. 

 

Reminds me of politics. 

[DocSwag]

5 minutes ago, App4that said:

Actually, look at the stocks. AMD has risen but not like Nvidia. AMD markets to a smaller group, that group has a limited view and understanding of whats happening. Mostly because they refuse to acknowledge anything that contradicts that view. 

 

Reminds me of politics. 

I feel the Nvidia fanboys are the ones that know only the basics and only use Nvidia because they've never used AMD and think AMD is trash. The AMD fanboys are the ones that know a little more than the Nvidia ones about GPU market politics and stuff but think they know everything. And then there's us. Some of us are a little biased towards one side or another, but 99% of us are not fanboys and even if we are a little biased we recognize it and don't call everyone who doesn't agree with their views idiots that haven't been enlightened. Remember, I used to be a red team fanboy until I realized that it was all false and I was living a lie in the GPU market. I'm still a little biased towards AMD but that's because I want ryzen and vega to succeed.

 

Lol we should call the AMD fanboys liberal extremist and Nvidia fanboys conservative extremists (since the AMD ones are the ones that want a lot of change and the Nvidia ones are the ones that like how it is).

[Cheddle]

PC brand means nothing to me. price to performance at the level of performance that I want is what gets my money. currently AMD don't have anything fast enough. Even my 1080 isnt enough, and a pascal titan X makes no sense at all... 

Bring on Vega.

[Dabombinable]

21 minutes ago, DocSwag said:

I feel the Nvidia fanboys are the ones that know only the basics and only use Nvidia because they've never used AMD and think AMD is trash. The AMD fanboys are the ones that know a little more than the Nvidia ones about GPU market politics and stuff but think they know everything. And then there's us. Some of us are a little biased towards one side or another, but 99% of us are not fanboys and even if we are a little biased we recognize it and don't call everyone who doesn't agree with their views idiots that haven't been enlightened. Remember, I used to be a red team fanboy until I realized that it was all false and I was living a lie in the GPU market. I'm still a little biased towards AMD but that's because I want ryzen and vega to succeed.

 

Lol we should call the AMD fanboys liberal extremist and Nvidia fanboys conservative extremists (since the AMD ones are the ones that want a lot of change and the Nvidia ones are the ones that like how it is).

Pst....it doesn't help AMD's case when they rebrand an entire generation of cards in a manner that doesn't make it obvious to most people that they are rebrands. Instead of shifting them down a tier or 2....

[Okjoek]

I like AMD for a few reasons. 

 

I like their name. Just sounds cooler to me.

I like that they diversify and not put all their resources into one thing even if it means they're not always the highest efficiency.

I like their cheaper mainstream for the masses approach as demonstrated by their "better red" slogan.

 

[App4that]

40 minutes ago, Cheddle said:

PC brand means nothing to me. price to performance at the level of performance that I want is what gets my money. currently AMD don't have anything fast enough. Even my 1080 isnt enough, and a pascal titan X makes no sense at all... 

Bring on Vega.

I was in the same boat, a second 980ti fixed it. 

 

12 minutes ago, Okjoek said:

I like AMD for a few reasons. 

 

I like their name. Just sounds cooler to me.

I like that they diversify and not put all their resources into one thing even if it means they're not always the highest efficiency.

I like their cheaper mainstream for the masses approach as demonstrated by their "better red" slogan.

 

Nvidia is diversified. You just don't see it because you only look at PC gaming. And cheap is subjective my friend. The graphics cards that have cost me the least amount of money in the end, have been the most expensive at the point of purchase. 

[Okjoek]

1 minute ago, App4that said:

Nvidia is diversified. You just don't see it because you only look at PC gaming. And cheap is subjective my friend. The graphics cards that have cost me the least amount of money in the end, have been the most expensive at the point of purchase. 

That's a good point, although one of my new year resolutions is to continue my trend even further away from any sort of high end gaming. I'm soon to be in the boat where if integrated graphics won't play it then I'm not going to bother. I have my hearts set on Raven Ridge Ryzen APUs. Should be more than enough for Rocket League and the sorts.

[Cheddle]

23 minutes ago, App4that said:

I was in the same boat, a second 980ti fixed it. 

I'm mainly gaming in VR - SLI dosn't work at all in VR, not even forced AFR. 

 

per eye mGPU isnt real life yet - only two titles support it. Croteam and Nvidia themselves offer it. and the scaling isn't great.

 

I actually went from a 1080 to 2-way 980ti and then 3-way 980ti in my quest to see if SLI was worth bothering with - and here I am today... back on a single 1080.

[MageTank]

1 hour ago, DocSwag said:

I feel the Nvidia fanboys are the ones that know only the basics and only use Nvidia because they've never used AMD and think AMD is trash. The AMD fanboys are the ones that know a little more than the Nvidia ones about GPU market politics and stuff but think they know everything. And then there's us. Some of us are a little biased towards one side or another, but 99% of us are not fanboys and even if we are a little biased we recognize it and don't call everyone who doesn't agree with their views idiots that haven't been enlightened. Remember, I used to be a red team fanboy until I realized that it was all false and I was living a lie in the GPU market. I'm still a little biased towards AMD but that's because I want ryzen and vega to succeed.

 

Lol we should call the AMD fanboys liberal extremist and Nvidia fanboys conservative extremists (since the AMD ones are the ones that want a lot of change and the Nvidia ones are the ones that like how it is).

Both sides are equal in my eyes. To be a fanboy means you are already thinking irrationally. You, as a consumer, should never be loyal to a brand, only to whatever option provides you the most for your dollar. No side has any more knowledge than the other, and neither side is right. Both sides are wrong, as they choose blind devotion over all else.

 

I see it all the time, not just with computer tech, but with cars and other products. People often recommend what they use, as a means to justify their own purchase decisions. Those who give in, often repeat that same exact cycle to again, justify their purchases. Nobody wants to be told they made a terrible decision, and nobody wants to feel inferior to others, but in fan wars, you see this all the time. "Your card is slower than mine" or "I paid less and got more". These two scenario's come up often, and it's mostly people comparing paper metrics, and not the experiences themselves. You have people that vastly over-pay for hardware that they can't even fully utilize, just to trash talk those with "lower" setups, who end up with more or less the exact same experience. I see people blow $500-$700 on a GPU, and pair it with a terrible monitor (sometimes without Free/G-Sync) and boast about how much stronger their GPU is, but end up with a worse experience than someone that split their GPU/Monitor funding and ended up with a mid-high GPU and Free/G-Sync. This isn't exclusive to AMD or Nvidia, both sides make these mistakes, and it's almost always the devote fanboys making them.

 

At the end of the day, brand should not be a problem. Unless the brand has a serious quality control issue or bad warranty/RMA practices, you shouldn't really be paying them any mind. I know some of you moral warriors will often avoid a brand based on their business practices, and believe that by giving your hard earned money for a sub-par product you will somehow fight the system, but you are not helping. Instead, you are acting as an enabler, letting a company know it's okay to release sub-par products, and that they will be supported regardless because they play the moral high-ground. Business is business, and these companies should be fighting for your money, not the other way around, with you fighting to protect their brands.