AMD's 'RYZEN' Detailed - Octacore, 3.4GHz + & Dynamic Overclocking

[Notional]

4 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

i have no idea while people think amd will massively undercut intel, they can't afford too if it performs like an intel it will be priced close to an intel.

 

Where they will make or break is the low end desktop chips where the majority of systems are. Get a 4 core at i3 prices would really get the cash flowing.

 

Sure mainstream is good, but you have to factor in, that profits are much much higher on the high-end products. So even if they sell fewer, they can make a lot of money. Intel's prices are running amok, by far too high (1700$ for a 10 core?). People should be fed up with Intel and their prices by now. If AMD can beat Intel in price to performance, while having performance very close to Intel, AMD will grab a huge market share.

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Besides a few outliers amd consistently undercut intel by decent margins since the early 90s. 

Not by much. They're always fairly similar.

7 minutes ago, Notional said:

Sure mainstream is good, but you have to factor in, that profits are much much higher on the high-end products. So even if they sell fewer, they can make a lot of money. Intel's prices are running amok, by far too high (1700$ for a 10 core?). People should be fed up with Intel and their prices by now. If AMD can beat Intel in price to performance, while having performance very close to Intel, AMD will grab a huge market share.

The vast majority of profit is made from enterprise and the average consumer. The enthusiast is basically irrelevant except for driving hype.

[Godlygamer23]

21 hours ago, Notional said:

Now price is the discerning factor.

And actual performance.

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, RagnarokDel said:

I suspect that within 2-3 years, we'll see a fist 4 core I3, a 6 core I5 and 8 core is going to become the norm for a gaming rig.

Some predictions you got there.

 

[Guest]

21 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

So when I first saw this on Reddit, I thought, 'How are you supposed to pronounce that? Is it "Rye-zen" or is it "Ri-zen"?'. It's a rather weird name choice in my honest opinion but it could've been far, far worse. And yes AMD, I saw what you did there.

 

With that out of the way, it's another week so that automatically means more AMD Zen news whether you like it or not. This time, AMD has highlighted a few vital pieces of information about their octacore CPU that I'll outline in this thread. It'll be a similar format to the Crimson ReLive one I did the other day which seemed to well-received. Hope this one helps you guys as well.

 

 

OCTACORE - 8 CORES, 16 THREADS

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. It's been long known that AMD is preparing to tackle Intel's enthusiast lineup, specifically the i7 5960X/6900K. IPC gains were previously shown off in a not-so trustworthy Blender benchmark but it's clear that it's a good gain from their previous products. How it stacks up to the Blue Team... well, that remains to be seen in reputable and neutral benchmarks.

 

3.4GHz+

Okay, so here's where it starts to get iffy. Is 3.4GHz is the base clock or the boost clock? If it's the former, obviously it would be better and put it above the i7 6900K I believe when it comes to clockspeeds. That '+' sign just throws everyone off.

 

 

SMART PREFETCH

Sounds like Intel's 'Smart Cache' does it not? It does emphasise elements of 'learning' which remain somewhat ambiguous.

 

20MB COMBINED L2+L3 CACHE

Practically the same as the i7 5960X and i7 6900K IIRC.

 

 

XFR - EXTENDED FREQUENCY RANGE

Something new. It seems to work similarly to NVIDIA's GPU Boost in the sense that it will see any temperature overhead and automatically 'boost' or overclock the CPU in accordance with that. It's not quite the same as Intel's Turbo Boost although it's similar. It's a cool feature although irrelevant for enthusiasts or gamers who want to overclock their Zen CPUs themselves.

 

 

PURE POWER & PRECISION BOOST

From what I'm getting, this seems to be some sort of overclocking software? 'Pure Power' seems to target the lowest amount of voltage for a certain level of performance. It seems the 'Distributed Embedded Sensors" monitor temps, voltage and frequency and send that info to what AMD calls "Infinity Control Fabric". 'Precision Boost' on the other hand seems to maintain the highest possible frequencies at a given voltage.

 

THOUGHTS

AMD's 'RYZEN' seems promising but it's honestly just trying to pick at the meat on the bones at this point. Fingers crossed for something to come out of the Q&A with the journos tomorrow but don't expect much to be coming out of the event itself. Launch dates, clockspeeds and most importantly, prices, remain to be seen. Ugh.

 

And remember... keep your expectations reasonable and don't get hyped. I'd hate to see people get disappointed that Zen didn't live up to their high expectations (although I might find some entertainment in that).

 

Source: http://videocardz.com/64741/ryzen

What about it's FPUs?  If 2 cores share the same FPU, that's a hardware bottleneck as ever.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, VPrime said:

What about it's FPUs?  If 2 cores share the same FPU, that's a hardware bottleneck as ever.

Same general design an pre-Bulldozer and Intel CPUs. One FPU per core.

[MageTank]

9 hours ago, potoooooooo said:

Die shrinks mean lower clock speed. That's why the 4790k could squeak out 5ghz but the 6700k can barely squeak out 4.8ghz

@Lays Concrete evidence that your 5ghz 6700k is a sham. So are every other 5ghz 6700k on HWbot. I knew it!

[potoooooooo]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

@Lays Concrete evidence that your 5ghz 6700k is a sham. So are every other 5ghz 6700k on HWbot. I knew it!

I doubt that's on air cooling

[MageTank]

Just now, potoooooooo said:

I doubt that's on air cooling

I doubt any 4790k at 5ghz is on air either. Haswell runs hotter with FIVR. 

[Lays]

12 minutes ago, potoooooooo said:

I doubt that's on air cooling

It's on water, but I could probably run this oc with a high end air cooler like am nhd15

[MageTank]

2 hours ago, Lays said:

It's on water, but I could probably run this oc with a high end air cooler like am nhd15

Yours is actually one of the coolest 5ghz i7's I've seen. You ran 48k and it didn't flinch, lol. Your's running 48k at 5ghz on a custom loop, runs cooler than mine at 4ghz on my ITX cooler. 

[DELTAprime]

I'm willing to wait for Zen reviews before I buy my new CPU and board after seeing the event today. What's the worst that can happen, Zen is a big lie and I end up getting a 7700k after the prices are lowered from day one high price BS?

[anotherriddle]

On ‎13‎.‎12‎.‎2016 at 4:09 AM, huilun02 said:

Why compare frequency when we don't know the IPC? Hope its good though. Waiting to see the SKU for Zen 4core with HT. 

I think the point of their benchmarks with comparison to an Intel chip at the same frequency with the same core count was to show that they match Intels IPC at this point in developement. (Which honestly would be impressive and much needed) I also hope that by starting with a blank sheet of paper they were able to get rid of the junk that accumulated from past chip iterations. This means they have room for developement in the future.

[Red Hardware]

12 hours ago, Coaxialgamer said:

it don't think this will be bulldozer . No reason for it to happen . for a few reasons .

-The 32nm process Bulldozer was made on had many problems before launch. Zen uses samsung's proven 14nm LPP process.

-Bulldozer's development started in 2006 , when the future of software multithreading was very uncertain . AMD made the wrong choices.But Zen started development in 2012 . Software development in 2012 was very similar to how how it is now.

-Globalfoundires and AMD both had management issues at the time ( mainly because of the GLOBALFOUNDRIES spinoff ) . this isn't the case anymore and both companies have a strong leadership.

-The core was unorthodox , as it used CMT. Apart from the scheduler issues , this can have issues that were not addressed in bulldozer .Zen uses a standard core layout.

-Bulldozer was designed to ramp up in frequency ( just like the p4 ) . Zen isn't.

-Efficiency is much more important now than in the 2006-2009 timeframe.

-Bulldozer was a very large chip .

-Bullodzer wasn't made piece by piece . Most of it's design was automated , which can result in poorer performance than necessary.

-Jim Keller .

 

Plus , AMD is acting very differently from how they were in 2010 . At the time , they were very secretive , barely let go any information and bulldozer was delayed significantly . Even the investors were pissed off .

This is far from the case now.

I mean apart from bulldozer , AMD has always produced decent chips . The worse i can think of apart from bulldozer was phenom , and that wasn't even that bad. 

Hi , Phenom wasn't that bad . I'm using one now ( II X6 1055T ) 

I think AMD is going to be the better choice again , I really hope that happens . 

[Phate.exe]

2 hours ago, Red Hardware said:

Hi , Phenom wasn't that bad . I'm using one now ( II X6 1055T ) 

I think AMD is going to be the better choice again , I really hope that happens . 

Phenom was kinda meh.  Phenom II was great (I'm also running an X6 still, which was too good for me to justify "upgrading" to FX).

[SpaceGhostC2C]

8 minutes ago, Phate.exe said:

Phenom was kinda meh.  Phenom II was great (I'm also running an X6 still, which was too good for me to justify "upgrading" to FX).

Phenom was in line with Core2. Phenom II was in line with 1st gen core i. It's only since Bulldozer that we have this long-lasting gap.

[Red Hardware]

6 minutes ago, Phate.exe said:

Phenom was kinda meh.  Phenom II was great (I'm also running an X6 still, which was too good for me to justify "upgrading" to FX).

I overclocked my II X6 1055T to 4GHz  but now , i'm using stock clock because i don' t have a good cooler but i'm still happy with my 1055t .

 

[Phate.exe]

4 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Phenom was in line with Core2. Phenom II was in line with 1st gen core i. It's only since Bulldozer that we have this long-lasting gap.

True, Phenom II was a close match for 1st gen core i, just with moar coars.

 

Really the main things that are leaving it behind now are (lack of) power efficiency and the lack of more modern instruction sets.

 

If AMD decided to call Ryzen "Phenom III", they can just have my money. ^{Who am I kidding, I'm gonna buy it anyways because I can't help myself.}

[Red Hardware]

1 minute ago, Phate.exe said:

True, Phenom II was a close match for 1st gen core i, just with moar coars.

 

Really the main things that are leaving it behind now are (lack of) power efficiency and the lack of more modern instruction sets.

 

If AMD decided to call Ryzen "Phenom III", they can just have my money. ^{Who am I kidding, I'm gonna buy it anyways because I can't help myself.}

Back at phenom and phenom II days (when i didn't know much about computers ) , power efficiency was't an important thing. The only important thing was performance .

[leadeater]

52 minutes ago, Red Hardware said:

Back at phenom and phenom II days (when i didn't know much about computers ) , power efficiency was't an important thing. The only important thing was performance .

Personally for me it still means nothing but if something has good power efficiency I won't be complaining, everyone wants different things so it's damn hard to please everyone .

[Coaxialgamer]

6 hours ago, Red Hardware said:

Hi , Phenom wasn't that bad . I'm using one now ( II X6 1055T ) 

I think AMD is going to be the better choice again , I really hope that happens . 

it was actually meh . Not bad or anything , just meh .

It had the TLB bug , and it used more power than the C2D while not quite closing the gap in terms of performance .

It was fast , just not fast enough .

Phenom 2 fixed many issues with the OG phenom , but it was too little too late , because intel had the core i series by then.

[Coaxialgamer]

15 hours ago, DELTAprime said:

I'm willing to wait for Zen reviews before I buy my new CPU and board after seeing the event today. What's the worst that can happen, Zen is a big lie and I end up getting a 7700k after the prices are lowered from day one high price BS?

Thing is,  neither AMD nor Intel  can lie.  Everything they say is true (when taking context into consideration)  and they have to disclose information about the benchmarks they use,  although not necessarily in an obvious fashion.  In theory,  if amd claims x performance of a chip in application y with settings z,  you should get this  exact same results,  everything being equal. 

 

Its just not always relevant. 

[Mr.Meerkat]

16 hours ago, MageTank said:

Yours is actually one of the coolest 5ghz i7's I've seen. You ran 48k and it didn't flinch, lol. Your's running 48k at 5ghz on a custom loop, runs cooler than mine at 4ghz on my ITX cooler. 

Delidded is probably the main word you're looking for  

 

4 hours ago, Phate.exe said:

Phenom was kinda meh.  Phenom II was great (I'm also running an X6 still, which was too good for me to justify "upgrading" to FX).

Phenom 2 wasn't bad to be fair, nor was bulldozer (and whatever FXx1xx CPUs were called) as ya know, a 8320 is able to beat a 6600K at a few specific scenarios  

[Jahramika]

On 12/13/2016 at 10:42 AM, crystal6tak said:

So AMD's CPU gets equivalent of Nvidia's GPU boost before AMD's GPU.

 

Oh what the hell 

NO AMDs is better because they have a actual CPU to put it on that runs in a PC

[straight_stewie]

On 12/12/2016 at 8:53 PM, HKZeroFive said:

Sounds like Intel's 'Smart Cache' does it not? It does emphasise elements of 'learning' which remain somewhat ambiguous.

This ArsTechnica article has stated that the "smart cache" includes a neural network to manage instruction prefetching/ordering/branch prediction. Which leaves me with many questions. Like, what is the control unit architecture? Don't you need a small, full computer to run a neural network fast enough to manage a processor? Are they exaggerating? 

I really want to know how their control unit works now. And not just a high level explanation, I want to know very deeply how it works.