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Microsoft joins the Linux Foundation - Platinum Member

GoodBytes
By GoodBytes
in Tech News
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Posted
6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

[...]Windows/Microsoft news is rarely reported. [...]

 

Come on, you know that's not true :D  In fact, that's the farthest thing from the truth!  Between you and @AluminiumTech you can pretty much just live under a rock in the forum news section and still keep up to speed on 100% of Microsoft stuff xD 

Solve your own audio issues  |  First Steps with RPi 3  |  Humidity & Condensation  |  Sleep & Hibernation  |  Overclocking RAM  |  Making Backups  |  Displays  |  4K / 8K / 16K / etc.  |  Do I need 80+ Platinum?

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Posted

Microsoft owns UNIX though...

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

 

 

I honestly thing windows is only sticking around because of software that was compiled only for it, specifically games, but there are other examples.

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Can someone explain what all the membership's do/mean ? 

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Embrace, Extend, Extinguish...

 

It seems like Phase 1 has begun

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13 hours ago, tlink said:

scary, thats some big money thats moving cogs inside a fundamental part of the open source community. this could be great i mean i would love a more open source windows and better compatibility between my windows games and linux platform but i fail to see how that would benefit windows so i doubt i will see anything like it. i hope the foundation fights to stay true to its core value's.

Linux is released under the GPL v2, this prevents any and all damage microsoft could try to inflict on the project. Linus Torvalds will never change that license and he can't be forced to. Even if the Linux foundation dies tomorrow the kernel will live on.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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I'll stand behind using Linux as a server OS, but I do see its faults and shortcomings.

Personally, I can't even use a Linux server due to my home automation system being written in the .NET environment. That and my retarded PS3 refuses to see the shared drive on any Linux machine

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Guys this is JUST about servers. The reason they want this is because windows on desktop is slowly dieing and they want azure to work on everything. It's more of a lets reorganize to the cloud strategy. But they are NOT just giving away desktop marketshare

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15 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows is actually not doing so well. I mean if we ignore MS efforts:

  • You want to develop an app on Android and iOS -> Get a Mac
  • You want to do back-end web development -> Get a Mac or run Linux.
  • You want to work on an IoT device /  embedded system -> Run Linux.

Windows is stuck in the PC space that is dying, being replaced by mobile phones for most users. And more and more developers are indeed buying Macs or running Linux as pointed right above. Windows Phone is not picking up anything. This is shrinking Windows marketshare. It is in a path of a slow death. I mean, just imagine all game devs makes a Linux version of their game... Apple returns to be Enterprise friendly (to any level), OR Android implements Continuum, and voila, Windows is pretty much dead. It is in Microsoft best interest to make Windows the go to platform to do things.

In order:

 

Wrong: Qt-Creator AND NetBeans.

No, just get Clang and, AGAIN, Qt-Creator or NetBeans, or Hell, Visual Studio can do that too. If you absolutely must have Java/Scala, then there's IntelliJ, Eclipse, and plenty more. If you have to have Ruby, these IDEs already cover you.

That, for only the reason you can't get the most recent versions of GCC on Windows, is true.

 

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15 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

'cause no one else does it? (Edit: Actually zMeul did it but I was faster than him). The forum is prominently Windows user base, and Windows/Microsoft news is rarely reported. I think it is good to know what news comes out of the OS people use everyday on their system.

 

I'd expected @AluminiumTech to be posting all these microsoft articles no? :P 

Looking at my signature are we now? Well too bad there's nothing here...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What? As I said, there seriously is nothing here :) 

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6 hours ago, Tocsin_786 said:

Can someone explain what all the membership's do/mean ? 

It's just how much money you donate.

Donate half a million dollars a year and you become a platinum member.

 

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Linux is released under the GPL v2, this prevents any and all damage microsoft could try to inflict on the project. Linus Torvalds will never change that license and he can't be forced to. Even if the Linux foundation dies tomorrow the kernel will live on.

If you think that then you don't understand "embrace, extend extinguish". I don't think that's what Microsoft is doing (even though it would be a very Microsoft thing to do), but they have used it in the past to kill open and free competitors to their products before.

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14 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If you think that then you don't understand "embrace, extend extinguish". I don't think that's what Microsoft is doing (even though it would be a very Microsoft thing to do), but they have used it in the past to kill open and free competitors to their products before.

Even if the Linux Foundation dies the kernel will not. A new foundation would emerge a week later and keep MS out. Unless they physically capture and torture Torvalds to force him to change the license they don't have the legal means to destroy the kernel.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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I'm all for MS funding Linux development, but please, MS, DO NOT mess with Linux. Would love to see more MS only apps being ported to run natively on Linux though. 

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2 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

I'm all for MS funding Linux development, but please, MS, DO NOT mess with Linux. Would love to see more MS only apps being ported to run natively on Linux though. 

They can't really mess with it.  Due to the nature of it, the community, and the GPL, all changes pretty much end up being a fork of something rather than a replacement :P  You can always find the version you like somewhere :) 

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7 hours ago, Nicholatian said:

Then what are they doing here?

Giving the Linux foundation money. 500,000 dollars yearly, to be exact.

 

 

7 hours ago, Sauron said:

Even if the Linux Foundation dies the kernel will not. A new foundation would emerge a week later and keep MS out. Unless they physically capture and torture Torvalds to force him to change the license they don't have the legal means to destroy the kernel.

That's not what Embrace, extend and extinguish is about.It's about adopting something, then start making changes to it, adding new features to your version, and lastly when the changes you have made becomes "standards", you block the extensions from your competitors and shut them out.

 

For example, one of Java's biggest benefits is that it is crossplatform compatible.

A Java program written for GNU/Linux will work on Windows as well, and vice versa. Microsoft id not like this, so what they did was promote Java and created their own JVM. This was the embrace phase. They are pretending to care for this new, open platform and want people to use it.

 

Then they started replacing the standard APIs in their own JVM with ones that only worked on Windows. Now, if Java programs wanted to use specific features they had to be coded for Windows and Windows only. Certain Java programs written for windows would no longer work on other platforms. That was the extend phase.

 

They wanted people to use these proprietary extensions as much as possible because the more people did that, the more it would hurt their competitors.

Luckily for us, Microsoft got sued, lost and had to pay Sun many millions of dollars. There are even emails between Microsoft employees where they are talking about what the best way to take control over Java would be. They never successfully executed the extinguish phase because they got sued.

 

 

I am not worried they are trying to do that here, but I am worried that they will try and do it with "bash on Ubuntu on Windows". Microsoft is one of the most evil companies out there. Their history is extremely dark and full of stories where they set the goal to ruin other companies not to make their own products better, but to harm the free market for their own benefits.

If companies were people, Microsoft would be Jack the Ripper.

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35 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

you block the extensions from your competitors and shut them out.

You can't do that with Linux

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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Just now, Sauron said:

You can't do that with Linux

I still don't think you understand what EEE is. It's not about modifying the source code of a product to ruin it. It's about making people use your version of something, which you then tweak to make incompatible with your competitors, and then use that to your advantage to make people stop using the product you originally based it on. It's about taking an existing standard, tweak it a bit and then put the companies that relies on the original standard at a disadvantage, causing users to be forced to use your version.

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11 minutes ago, Sauron said:

You can't do that with Linux

No you can't but sure you can.

 

To elaborate, you can't do that with Linux that much is true.

 

However you can just call it Minux instead of Linux, close the source and drop GPL as the license and not contribute back anymore or as much or little as you'd like.

 

Not only is this doable but it's been done before, we call that Android.

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Current Rig

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30 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I still don't think you understand what EEE is. It's not about modifying the source code of a product to ruin it. It's about making people use your version of something, which you then tweak to make incompatible with your competitors, and then use that to your advantage to make people stop using the product you originally based it on. It's about taking an existing standard, tweak it a bit and then put the companies that relies on the original standard at a disadvantage, causing users to be forced to use your version.

 

31 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

No you can't but sure you can.

 

To elaborate, you can't do that with Linux that much is true.

 

However you can just call it Minux instead of Linux, close the source and drop GPL as the license and not contribute back anymore or as much or little as you'd like.

 

Not only is this doable but it's been done before, we call that Android.

The GPL version 2 strictly forbids changing the license when you modify the source. You can do whatever you want with Linux, but you must release the source code of your work under the same license. If you infringe on this rule you lose the legal right to distribute the kernel itself and whatever derivative work you created permanently, or until the copyright holders (meaning a majority of the holders, which are quite a few, plus Torvalds in person) "forgive" you. Stallman and friends really thought that one through and Torvalds refuses to update to version 3 specifically because v3 is more lenient towards infringements.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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13 minutes ago, Sauron said:

The GPL version 2 strictly forbids changing the license when you modify the source. You can do whatever you want with Linux, but you must release the source code of your work under the same license. If you infringe on this rule you lose the legal right to distribute the kernel itself and whatever derivative work you created permanently, or until the copyright holders (meaning a majority of the holders, which are quite a few, plus Torvalds in person) "forgive" you. Stallman and friends really thought that one through and Torvalds refuses to update to version 3 specifically because v3 is more lenient towards infringements.

You're correct that you can not make changes to the kernel itself and change the license. That does not hinder you from making other things which locks it down though. For example TouchWiz is closed source despite using the Linux kernel. That's because the kernel is open source, but not all the components that plugs into the kernel are. If this was not allowed by the license then you would not be allowed to for example run a closed source application like a game or a browser on GNU/Linux. You would not be allowed to have closed source drivers either.

Hell, even the Linux kernel contains a lot of closed source software (called binary blobs).

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7 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You're correct that you can not make changes to the kernel itself and change the license. That does not hinder you from making other things which locks it down though. For example TouchWiz is closed source despite using the Linux kernel. That's because the kernel is open source, but not all the components that plugs into the kernel are. If this was not allowed by the license then you would not be allowed to for example run a closed source application like a game or a browser on GNU/Linux. You would not be allowed to have closed source drivers either.

Hell, even the Linux kernel contains a lot of closed source software (called binary blobs).

MS would have a hard time making something proprietary that is so paramount to the survival of Linux that it would destroy the project. Besides, Linux has a pretty low desktop marketshare already and businesses who use Linus already have the software they need.

Don't ask to ask, just ask... please 🤨

sudo chmod -R 000 /*

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10 hours ago, Nicholatian said:

Then what are they doing here?

Funding the Linux Foundation. Microsoft is one of the largest corporate contributors to Linux, believe it or not.

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39 minutes ago, Sauron said:

MS would have a hard time making something proprietary that is so paramount to the survival of Linux that it would destroy the project. Besides, Linux has a pretty low desktop marketshare already and businesses who use Linus already have the software they need.

Well remember, they almost managed to do it with Java, they more or less did it with the Internet in the early days, they did it with the "open" XML (not quite EEE, but pretty similar), they did it with MSN...

You'd be surprised at how much you can accomplish when you got a near bottomless wallet and a bunch of developers and PC-makers by the balls.

 

But like I said before, I don't think that's what Microsoft is doing here, but it's by no means impossible that they have an EEE plan and are starting to execute it.

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On 11/16/2016 at 1:13 PM, GoodBytes said:

Windows is actually not doing so well. I mean if we ignore MS efforts:

  • You want to develop an app on Android and iOS -> Get a Mac
  • You want to do back-end web development -> Get a Mac or run Linux.
  • You want to work on an IoT device /  embedded system -> Run Linux.

Windows is stuck in the PC space that is dying, being replaced by mobile phones for most users. And more and more developers are indeed buying Macs or running Linux as pointed right above. Windows Phone is not picking up anything. This is shrinking Windows marketshare. It is in a path of a slow death. I mean, just imagine all game devs makes a Linux version of their game... Apple returns to be Enterprise friendly (to any level), OR Android implements Continuum, and voila, Windows is pretty much dead. It is in Microsoft best interest to make Windows the go to platform to do things.

  • You want to play games -> Get a PC.

GPU: XFX RX 7900 XTX

CPU: Ryzen 7 7800X3D

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5 minutes ago, Orangeator said:
  • You want to play games -> Get a PC.

False,

you can run a lot of games on linux

and the ones you can't, you can just setup a VM to run windows.

 

 

 

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