Nvidia rant

[Mecami]

Usually I really don't do stuff like this, but this one pisses me off so badly. This is some kind of PSA/Rant combination.

The launch of the gtx 1080 was an insult, especially for the EU. The argument "It's faster than a 980Ti, it's a great deal", is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. It is meant to replace the gtx 980, not the 980Ti.

If you argue like that, then that would mean that each generation should have a significant price increase, just because it's faster than the previous, meaning we would see an ever increasing price tag, so that the x80 will sell for $1000 in the near future?

Now following the 970 marketing deception, nvidia doesn't seem to have learned. Calling the new 3GB variant of the 1060 also 1060, when it clearly isn't, is just another proof of how safe nvidia feels with its market shares.

By the way this whole 1060 thing calls for yet again another class action lawsuit, so that nvidia will perhaps learn someday. I believe that there is a valid case here.

Saddest thing of all is that nvidia will continue to sell a ton of cards, because people are just accepting all of this with the mindset there is nothing that can be done.

If people just stopped going out buying everything nvidia throws on the market, they will be forced to stop with this crap.

AMD isn't the only one that can force nvidia into surrender, just remember that. (Just as valid for Intel, by the way)

[themctipers]

for me, the newest 80 series cards replace the older 80ti series

so having the 980 replace the 780ti is good, same thing applies for the 1080 replacing the 980ti

--

its even more of an insult with the uk, Australia and canada.the price is fucking $1000 or more here.

i dont understand the whole 1060 drama thing. and im not going to touch that potato

 

why does nvdia sell cards? fanboys like me.  

[AresKrieger]

7 minutes ago, Mecami said:

 

AMD isn't the only one that can force nvidia into surrender, just remember that. (Just as valid for Intel, by the way)

Cool but frankly AMD can go to hell for all I care, I haven't had trouble with intel but AMD cpus have been very unreliably for me.

 

As for GPUs/Nvidia the reason people buy their stuff is that it is good in their perspective, granted nvidia went up on price but they also essentially skipped a generation performance wise.

[Mecami]

3 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Cool but frankly AMD can go to hell for all I care, I haven't had trouble with intel but AMD cpus have been very unreliably for me.

 

As for GPUs/Nvidia the reason people buy there stuff is that it is good in their perspective, granted nvidia went up on price but they also essentially skipped a generation performance wise.

What I meant by that is, that you don't have to buy amd if you are unhappy with nvidia's current mindset/pricing. If people just stopped buying nvidia for a while they will have to give in eventually. People just need to be more patient or even ask themselves is it even worth it to upgrade to the new generation from their current graphics card?

[AresKrieger]

Just now, Mecami said:

What I meant by that is, that you don't have to buy amd if you are unhappy with nvidia's current mindset/pricing. If people just stopped buying nvidia for a while they will have to give in eventually. People just need to be more patient or even ask themselves is it even worth it to upgrade to the new generation from their current graphics card?

This I can agree with since I'm not someone who likes to waste money

[GoodBytes]

5 minutes ago, themctipers said:

its even more of an insult with the uk, Australia and canada.the price is fucking $1000 or more here.

i dont understand the whole 1060 drama thing. and im not going to touch that potato

It's "1060" and "1060 3GB". This is not new. If you look at the Wikipedia, you have worst than this. 2x identical card name targeted for OEM or low-end, but 1 of them is older architecture than the other, with actual performance difference. So the only way to id them is look at the VRAM type or the clock speeds, as card manufactures and OEMs sure don't tell you. I am kinda surprised that now people notice.

 

As for price, this is currency conversion and taxes. Get used to it.

Value in Canada of its currency has dropped a lot compared to the US (plus added headroom on the price for currency fluctuation). Plus, you have shipping from US manufacture to Canadian stores, plus you have taxes that goods needs to pay which are passed down to us.

 

In the UK, taxes are a lot higher, plus they need to ship via boat or plane, plus you have the currency conversion, plus you have the fact that taxes are included in the price, while US and Canada aren't.

[intelCore]

7 minutes ago, Mecami said:

What I meant by that is, that you don't have to buy amd if you are unhappy with nvidia's current mindset/pricing. If people just stopped buying nvidia for a while they will have to give in eventually. People just need to be more patient or even ask themselves is it even worth it to upgrade to the new generation from their current graphics card?

I'm running a GTX460 and I am looking into getting a new one now and while I completely agree with what you wrote creating the thread I fear that I will have to get a 1060 6 Gb because I would have a really hard time waiting for even the next gen now.

[Poohy14]

running 2 GTX 670 (2GB) and thinking about upgrading to a GTX 1080 since that is a lot better card than what I am using. Always liked Nvidia and I have the Shield portable and planning on buy the Shield TV for my livingroom.

[Mecami]

5 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

It's "1060" and "1060 3GB". This is not new. If you look at the Wikipedia, you have worst than this. 2x identical card name targeted for OEM or low-end, but 1 of them is older architecture than the other, with actual performance difference. So the only way to id them is look at the VRAM type or the clock speeds, as card manufactures and OEMs sure don't tell you. I am kinda surprised that now people notice.

 

As for price, this is currency conversion and taxes. Get used to it.

Value in Canada of its currency has dropped a lot compared to the US (plus added headroom on the price for currency fluctuation). Plus, you have shipping from US manufacture to Canadian stores, plus you have taxes that goods needs to pay which are passed down to us.

 

In the UK, taxes are a lot higher, plus they need to ship via boat or plane, plus you have the currency conversion, plus you have the fact that taxes are included in the price, while US and Canada aren't.

I remember here in germany the 980 launched at about 500-550€, now the 1080 is way over 700€ here, that price increase is just crazy. And as for the get used to it, that's exactly what people need to stop saying. People are just so lazy, they keep accepting every inconvenience, just why?

[intelCore]

4 minutes ago, Mecami said:

I remember here in germany the 980 launched at about 500-550€, now the 1080 is way over 700€ here, that price increase is just crazy. And as for the get used to it, that's exactly what people need to stop saying. People are just so lazy, they keep accepting every inconvenience, just why?

I would love to know that too. Everyone just keeps accepting everything because the single person can't do nothing about it and consumers are too busy fighting with each other due to "fanboyism".

[Mecami]

Just now, intelCore said:

I would love to know that too. Everyone just keeps accepting everything because the single person can't do nothing about it and consumers are too busy fighting with each other due to "fanboyism".

Yeah it's just really sad, I mean there are so many people that upgraded from Maxwell to Pascal. I don't get it, it's not like that upgrade was absolutely necessary, because they can't run their games anymore, that's just bullshit. Especially upgrading from a 980/980ti.

[GSTARR]

I like Nvidia's cards sucks to suck man

[Mecami]

Just now, GSTARR said:

I like Nvidia's cards sucks to suck man

I'm myself more of a team green member, but that doesn't mean that you just have to accept everything nvidia does, right?

[Bhav]

I also hate the prices on the pascal cards. Thats why I bought 980 Tis instead.

[intelCore]

1 minute ago, Mecami said:

Yeah it's just really sad, I mean there are so many people that upgraded from Maxwell to Pascal. I don't get it, it's not like that upgrade was absolutely necessary, because they can't run their games anymore, that's just bullshit. Especially upgrading from a 980/980ti.

Yes and you should maybe rename the thread because this is nothing that is just in graphics cards but literally the whole of the electronic industry with the smartphone market being the most extreme and the TV market closing in with TVs that just like to fail but these are all random happenings that have nothing to do with each other ofcourse.

As for this people seem to just accept that if you buy something cheaper it is packed with as much function as you can put in but with quality so low that you can't even cope with it.

 

As for GPUs people need to learn to measure in performance increase compares to the last generation of the same company and if that is nowhere near reasonable for the price they are charging then this is nothing to buy ! (Just my opinion ofcourse.)

 

6 minutes ago, GSTARR said:

I like Nvidia's cards sucks to suck man

If you look at my name you might be able to guess that it's the same with me for intel however just putting out CPUs for the sake of profit because you know people are going to buy it even if they just bought the last gen is just ridiculous.

 

As much as I like technology, people need to get more aware again of what the industry is doing and that it is mostly going for profit and nothing else.

[Okjoek]

I wouldn't mind buying another nVIDIA card, but AMD's just got the realistic prices off the bat. You can argue that RX isn't as efficient or powerful, but I don't get the feeling that it's light-years behind either. Yes there is a point in performance/efficiency that AMD could drop to and I would choose an alternative, but AMD's just not that bad yet and until nVIDIA starts to beat AMD at the realistic price point that AMD has set I'm just not falling for their overpriced drivel. 

 

On the CPU side however AMD has IMO fallen far enough behind to where if I did need to buy a CPU right now I would pick their competitor most likely. As a fan of red team though I do have best hopes for Zen to keep me from picking another i5.

[BrightCandle]

Its actually a bit worse of a deal than it first appears. The 980 is a 384mm^2 die and the 1080 is 314mm^2, although the 680 was a similar scenario (new process with 28nm and same class of GPU) and it was 294mm^2, but its definitely quite a bit smaller than the 980 was. So you are getting quite a bit less silicon for the increased price, especially compared to something like the 680 which compares more fairly than the 980 did.

 

The news was that 16nm was about 12% more expensive per wafer than 28nm had been at the start so we should expect some increase but its disproportionate especially considering the reduction in power consumption which saved on power circuitry and such. So I agree the 1080 is a bad deal compared to the history of this class of GPU. There isn't any competition however, we talk about the RX480 being mainstream but in reality its 214mm^2, the same size of GPU AMD has been famously producing for nearly a decade at this point and its basically the same price its always been at $250. Despite all the hype its simply not more expensive than its predecessors, so comparatively is a better deal than Nvidia historically speaking.

 

Nvidia and AMD have always been doing silly things around the mainstream cards, they have had light cards and reduced and increased VRAM cards and all sorts of nonsense with the same major designation. There is a lot of competition in the mainstream card area and every die harvested improves the price point a little so I see this as the reason why the 4GB and 3GB cards exist. Its always been a confusing area of the market they have never simplified it and its been like this for quite some time. I wish they would designate it better but I get the feeling it might be reactionary, they see what types of defects they get on the dies for the mainstream chips and then choose what the harvested die cards will be and only then release it calling it something similar to the card it was harvested from. I think this is why it doesn't often make a whole lot of sense and fit nicely in the branding and market positioning. But it could be intentionally confusing I just believe its more likely lack of foreknowledge rather than malice.

 

 

[laminutederire]

As disgusting as they can be when selling their products, the only thing you can do is to teach people to spend their money more wisely. But YouTubers give the opposite image of that and depict the image that you have to have a 1080 or now a Titan to have a good GPU. Like anything beyond that won't allow you to play anything. 

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, Mecami said:

Usually I really don't do stuff like this, but this one pisses me off so badly. This is some kind of PSA/Rant combination.

The launch of the gtx 1080 was an insult, especially for the EU. The argument "It's faster than a 980Ti, it's a great deal", is the dumbest argument I've ever heard. It is meant to replace the gtx 980, not the 980Ti.

It's as fast or faster than Maxwell's Titan X, a $1000 launch card. At $600 MSRP (which nobody seems to do, so blame the stores and AIBs for jacking up costs, FE not withstanding), I'd say you were still getting a better deal. Besides that, the high end market isn't really were most of the money is historically. It's always been to the midrange.

 

Quote

If you argue like that, then that would mean that each generation should have a significant price increase, just because it's faster than the previous, meaning we would see an ever increasing price tag, so that the x80 will sell for $1000 in the near future?

And it's also the "First to next generation" price tag. Both sides have sold their video cards for slightly higher prices than what was previously done if they were first. NVIDIA's just be first for a while now and for some reason AMD doesn't really follow suit on bringing the cost down. For example, they could've undermined the GTX 980 Ti by release the Fury X for say $600 instead of $650. So why didn't they?

 

Quote

Now following the 970 marketing deception, nvidia doesn't seem to have learned. Calling the new 3GB variant of the 1060 also 1060, when it clearly isn't, is just another proof of how safe nvidia feels with its market shares.

• Both companies have had cards with the same name that had different specs
• AMD has at least one instance where their naming convention failed, there was an R9 370 they released to OEMs that performed worse than the R7 370 released to consumers.
• NVIDIA kind already did this with the GeForce 8800 GTS. There were three versions of that card, one of which was a completely different GPU. Nobody really cared.

Besides that, it's not any different from a lot of tech products out there, even with different names. If someone gets confused, they'll just ask someone who knows what they're doing (hopefully) what the difference is. Just like any other two similar looking tech products.

 

Quote

By the way this whole 1060 thing calls for yet again another class action lawsuit, so that nvidia will perhaps learn someday. I believe that there is a valid case here.

If that's the case can we make a class action suit against AMD for similar practices? Again, both companies have named their video cards in such a way that inflates what they really are.

 

13 minutes ago, BrightCandle said:

Its actually a bit worse of a deal than it first appears. The 980 is a 384mm^2 die and the 1080 is 314mm^2, although the 680 was a similar scenario (new process with 28nm and same class of GPU) and it was 294mm^2, but its definitely quite a bit smaller than the 980 was. So you are getting quite a bit less silicon for the increased price, especially compared to something like the 680 which compares more fairly than the 980 did.

This I feel is flawed thinking. Because you get less matter for a higher price, you're getting a bad deal? That's like saying buying a turbocharged V6 is a bad deal over a V8 because you're getting less engine for your money. Look at the other figures, like transistor counts, execution units, and performance.

[samcool55]

1 hour ago, Mecami said:

I'm myself more of a team green member, but that doesn't mean that you just have to accept everything nvidia does, right?

Hang on, you just went on a rant about nvidia, but you have a card yourself?

Wtf is that about? If you don't like a brand stop giving them your money!

Money is all they care about, if you give it, they have what they want from you, from that point they don't care anymore about you.

They have your money, that's all they want.

 

I don't know if you realize it but you are part of the problem atm 

Don't like what nvidia does? Don't give them your money, that's all you can do.

Anyway i guess it's better late than never to realize you don't like them.

 

I personally got an rx 480, and i had the money to get a 1060 which is where i live atm the better option.

But i didn't get one for the simple reason i don't want to give Nvidia my money.

[LordLeewee]

id really like a 1080 to cost £100, eventually it probably will. For now they're £600 though. It's obviously cost more to design, develop and produce 1080's than it had for 980's

[intelCore]

10 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

-snip-

What's the problem of talking about what is going wrong with the company you want to get your products from? Ofcourse it would be ideal if everyone just stopped buying so that the companies feel they're doing something wrong however if you only have the choice between 2 companies where one of them dominates the efficency and high end market and the other one the mid to low end, just switching company is not going to do a lot. No matter what company you go with they both go for your money and while one would assume that AMD is not in the place where they could afford treating their costumers badly it's still a company going for money.

Telling people they can't do nothing more than just stop buying their products is wrong aswell because we can do a lot more than that. There's loads of people thinking like that I suppose and they would have to understand that if we make enough trouble and get enough attention with the mass they would have to do something. Not buying their products anymore would ofcourse pressure them even more but before that we would have to get enough people to do it.

[samcool55]

Just now, intelCore said:

What's the problem of talking about what is going wrong with the company you want to get your products from? Ofcourse it would be ideal if everyone just stopped buying so that the companies feel they're doing something wrong however if you only have the choice between 2 companies where one of them dominates the efficency and high end market and the other one the mid to low end, just switching company is not going to do a lot. No matter what company you go with they both go for your money and while one would assume that AMD is not in the place where they could afford treating their costumers badly it's still a company going for money.

Telling people they can't do nothing more than just stop buying their products is wrong aswell because we can do a lot more than that. There's loads of people thinking like that I suppose and they would have to understand that if we make enough trouble and get enough attention with the mass they would have to do something. Not buying their products anymore would ofcourse pressure them even more but before that we would have to get enough people to do it.

Because they want it, but don't need it

You don't need a 1080... You might want one, which is fine, but you don't NEED one.

Nobody died or got sick because they didn't get a 1080. It's not a medicine or something like that...

 

And i'm not saying go for amd, what i am saying is don't give nvidia your money if you don't like what they do.

Yes in this case amd is sort of the only decent alternative and intel iGPU is sort of in a special position because you can only get that with a CPU.

 

You can indeed tell people to not get Nvidia, but if i hate a company i would at least start with myself but oh well...

Messages like this this can indeed help if enough people talk about it. Not going to deny that but again i would at least show the world i'm serious about it and show 0 support for the company by not having anything from them.

 

Maybe some people think differently i guess?

[dizmo]

I think you're blowing it way out of proportion.

Why are you so mad? Did you see how much R&D it cost to get the new cards out to market? The cost was huge. Thus, the product will cost more. There's more to it, of course, but that's a very simply breakdown.

The performance increase was pretty decent.

It's already been pointed out, but there are many additional fees shipping to foreign countries.

As for the 1060, just read up on it and it seems fair. If people did a little research they'd know what they're getting. Also, the performance seems to be in line with the price. It's not like they're claiming it's amazingly fast.

 

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

-snip-

I agree with everything...except shipping from US manufacture to "x" vendor. I doubt they'd have it shipped from Taiwan to US, then abroad. At least I hope they wouldn't be that daft. Then again..

 

2 hours ago, Mecami said:

What I meant by that is, that you don't have to buy amd if you are unhappy with nvidia's current mindset/pricing. If people just stopped buying nvidia for a while they will have to give in eventually. People just need to be more patient or even ask themselves is it even worth it to upgrade to the new generation from their current graphics card?

So...who would you buy from? There is no third party. This IS a two horse race.

2 hours ago, Mecami said:

I remember here in germany the 980 launched at about 500-550€, now the 1080 is way over 700€ here, that price increase is just crazy. And as for the get used to it, that's exactly what people need to stop saying. People are just so lazy, they keep accepting every inconvenience, just why?

R&D was a lot higher. Thus, higher price of the card. I wouldn't say it's lazy. If people want the best performance, and they can afford it, they'll pay it. Pretty clearly shown by the sales figures of the card.

 

As a large percentage of "hardcore" gamers age (I think the average age is around late 20's early 30's) their incomes do as well, and throwing down that money on something they love isn't an issue. Most of my friends bought 1080's, one bought a new Titan. All for gaming.

44 minutes ago, laminutederire said:

As disgusting as they can be when selling their products, the only thing you can do is to teach people to spend their money more wisely. But YouTubers give the opposite image of that and depict the image that you have to have a 1080 or now a Titan to have a good GPU. Like anything beyond that won't allow you to play anything. 

I haven't seen them tout the cards like that. At least none of the top reviewers I watch.

They all say it's the best card you can get. What you'd buy if you want the best performance/experience.

Which is true. So that might just come down to your perception of the content provided to you.

[laminutederire]

14 minutes ago, dizmo said:

They all say it's the best card you can get. What you'd buy if you want the best performance/experience.

Which is true. So that might just come down to your perception of the content provided to you.

It's more about the fact that they were under covering the mainstream cards. They accorded more time and energy for the 1080's, 1070's and titan rather than for the rx 480 and 1060. We all know they find mid range cards boring, but it felt too blatant to me when we the viewers care about the mid range because that's the best we can afford.