Expect iPhone 7 w/ Similar design and removed headphone jack this fall, Major changes next year for the 10th year Anniversary

[Curufinwe_wins]

39 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Thinner, I agree with you. Getting rid of headphone jack, nope. This is pretty much the exact same reaction when they got rid of CDs, floppies, 30-pin connector, and non-type c ports now. 

3.5mm jack have served us all well, but the fact that it's still analog and takes up tonnes amount of precious space in a smartphone is what makes it old tech. Apple experimented with 2.5mm jack last year, but they gave up on it due to its problems. The final solution, proceed and make it wireless accessory. It may not be the ideal solution now, but it will become in fact accelerated and become a viable solution within 2 years time where we could actually get decent wireless buds for not so much. Anyone who wants pro grade sound level can opt for lightning headphones for better than ever sound fidelity.

 

The industry needs to move on and there is no other way to other than to abandon it and annoy users for a little while before people get used to it. Again Apple has some experiance in the past as they're notorious for getting rid of legacy tech

You do realize battery technology progresses at a snails pace, and that isn't how headphones work... You will have to carry a lightning to 3.5mm adapter to use anything remotely approaching good headphones...

 

You can't make digital audio drivers... that is a FACT (you still have to have a dac somewhere, even if it is in the set.)

[RedRound2]

15 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

You didn't respond with anything relevant. When replacing an existing tech, you need to come forward with a superior alternative. They have not done so yet. That's how this differs from CDs.

 

They aren't replacing it because it's obsolete. It isn't. It's old, but no suitable replacement has risen yet. They're replacing it to make the phone thinner, despite the obvious disadvantage that it brings.

Wireless. Maybe not now but development will be accelerated due to the demand it will bring. 

Ah, everyone is reading too much into thinner. iPod is so far the thinnest device and it had 3.5mm jack. Even the new iPad is thinner thena the iPhone and it has 3.5mm jack

11 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Old does not mean bad. Can you give some examples of how removing the headphone jack will benefit consumers? 

I dont know yet, but they will be saving alot of space to use other stuff for like a bigger battery, or better speakers with onboard Dac. Sure it'll annoy consumers including me for about 2 years but after that it'll be forgotten just like how they abandoned other stuff in the past

[iamdarkyoshi]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Headphone jack probably is the oldest tech in a smartphone and it needs to go away IMO. And Apple is probably the best at abandoning old tech and moving the industry forward.

With the headphone jack removed there is actually a potential of squeezing in a bigger battery, so maybe it isnt probably that bad

>Industry standard

>lightning connector used by nothing but their products

>k

[Sauron]

I still think removing the jack without replacing it is a terrible idea. We'll see how the general market reacts.

[Sauron]

16 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

You do realize battery technology progresses at a snails pace, and that isn't how headphones work... You will have to carry a lightning to 3.5mm adapter to use anything remotely approaching good headphones...

 

You can't make digital audio drivers... that is a FACT (you still have to have a dac somewhere, even if it is in the set.)

There are bluetooth to jack adapters actually (with a dac in them). Still, hardly a great solution.

[RedRound2]

14 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

You do realize battery technology progresses at a snails pace, and that isn't how headphones work... You will have to carry a lightning to 3.5mm adapter to use anything remotely approaching good headphones...

 

You can't make digital audio drivers... that is a FACT (you still have to have a dac somewhere, even if it is in the set.)

Yes it does, but not power efficiency of chips and on board devices. The jaybird bluebuds X is as good as most wired headphones. But the simple fact is many people just use their mobile headphones which are at best average. If you want really good headphones, though get a lightning one and it will be better than every other analog set

[Arcanekitten]

2 hours ago, ThinkWithPortals said:

I agree with moving the industry forward and all, but so many devices use that jack that it seems ludicrous to get rid of it. After all, just because it's old doesn't mean it has to be done away with.

Can't agree more with this ^-^

[Remixt]

Remember when Samsung thought it was a good idea to remove the sdcard slot? This will result in even worse backlash. I'm all for it because that means the iPhone 8 will be amazing. My S7 is the best phone I've ever had, and the S6 was one of the worst I've ever had.

[captain cactus]

3 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I dont know yet, but they will be saving alot of space to use other stuff for like a bigger battery, or better speakers with onboard Dac. Sure it'll annoy consumers including me for about 2 years but after that it'll be forgotten just like how they abandoned other stuff in the past

Apple got rid of things like the floppy drive and the DVD drive because better alternatives were already growing at those times. Floppies got replaced by CDs and DVDs due to the latter giving way more storage space and speed, then those got replaced by digital distribution because of the speed and data size being larger than what a CD/DVD could deliver (especially true with games). Nothing has come up so far and conclusively showed that it's better than the 3.5mm jack, so it's far from ready to being replaced. What should be done is making the DACs of higher quality so they give off less noise in the conversion process, keeping the 3.5mm jack and keeping millions of customers happy with better audio while not having to upgrade their headphones.

[spwath]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Headphone jack probably is the oldest tech in a smartphone and it needs to go away IMO. And Apple is probably the best at abandoning old tech and moving the industry forward.

With the headphone jack removed there is actually a potential of squeezing in a bigger battery, so maybe it isnt probably that bad

No, why does it "need to go"?
How are you supposed to plug in your headphones?

[spwath]

24 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

. Again, it's apple, it doesnt take a whole lot for an headphone company to add some bluetooth and lighning version of their headphones with the current linuep

Yes it does. They need to have a DAC and amp in them, adding to the cost, and preventing audiophiles from using their own amp and dac.

 

Audio enthusiests will NOT like this change.

• Wired audio still has better quality
• All of our expensive headphones are still wired, dont want to have to buy new noes
• If headphoones start having lightling conectors oor bluethooth, they will have DAC and amp as I said before
• This change isnt very bennificial in any way

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

With the headphone jack removed there is actually a potential of squeezing in a bigger battery, so maybe it isnt probably that bad

Want to know how to fit more battery into a phone? Make it thicker. Removing the headphone jack won't do jack shit in terms of how much battery they can fit.

I actually did the math on this (although quite rough estimates). Assuming you could remove the headphone jack and then fill all the space it uses with extra battery (which you most likely couldn't, because batteries aren't like Play-doh), which has the same energy density as the current iPhone battery, you would get an extra 70mAh. That's it.

 

26 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I dont know yet, but they will be saving alot of space to use other stuff for like a bigger battery, or better speakers with onboard Dac. Sure it'll annoy consumers including me for about 2 years but after that it'll be forgotten just like how they abandoned other stuff in the past

It won't save a lot of space. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a lot smaller than some people seem to think. Even the microSIM slot takes up more space.

What do you mean speaker with onboard DAC? There is already a DAC in the phone.

 

21 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

If you want really good headphones, though get a lightning one and it will be better than every other analog set

Why do you think that a pair of lightning headphones will sound better than a pair of analog headphones?

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

Headphone jack probably is the oldest tech in a smartphone and it needs to go away IMO. And Apple is probably the best at abandoning old tech and moving the industry forward.

With the headphone jack removed there is actually a potential of squeezing in a bigger battery, so maybe it isnt probably that bad

You have repeatedly failed in this thread to actually rationalize WHY 3.5mm headphone jacks should die. Why they should go away. Why they are "old and outdated".

 

Can you please list some objective benefits to getting rid of the 3.5mm jack, ASIDE from the very minor amount of space savings achieved inside the phone? Literally the only thing you'll be able to remove is the 3.5mm jack itself.

 

Remember that Audio is inherently an analog thing. The phone itself will still have a sound processor and a DAC, since it still has internal analog speakers.

 

And if the Lightning to 3.5mm adapter is also a thing, that means that you're literally just shunting the analog output from one very well designed connector to one that is not an industry standard, nor widely adopted outside of a single hardware ecosystem.

 

1 hour ago, ChineseChef said:

I don't understand this mindset that there is some kind of space premium in these phones, there really isn't.  They don't need to be thinner, everyone I have ever talked to in person wants thicker/bigger battery.  And getting rid of the headphone jack is 100% a money grab.  They want to force you to buy all new stuff.  There is absolutely no need to do it.  I mean, buttons are old tech, lets get rid of those and only use gestures, or how about only allowing voice controls?!  Old doesn't mean bad simply because its old.  Sometimes we found a good way to do something, and we still use it because we haven't found a way to improve it in any meaningful way.

Here here. I agree with all of this^

 

18 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Yes it does, but not power efficiency of chips and on board devices. The jaybird bluebuds X is as good as most wired headphones. But the simple fact is many people just use their mobile headphones which are at best average. If you want really good headphones, though get a lightning one and it will be better than every other analog set

I looked up the Jaybird Bluebuds X ... these are $200 Earbuds. I have a pair of KICKASS Beyerdynamic MMX series earbuds, and I paid around $80 for them. They blow away any earbuds I've ever tried before.  You're saying I might as well scrap those and pick up some $200 earbuds that MAY sound as good, for over double the price? Also 4-8 hours is insufficient for many people for battery life on earbuds.

 

The fact of the matter is that the only thing for for "Get rid of 3.5mm" proponents is the supposed space savings inside the device itself.

 

I've yet to hear any arguments outside of that scenario that have any merit. Please prove me wrong though, if there are more advantages that I'm simply unaware of.

[Kimmers]

I'll keep my opinions about removing the headphone jack after its release.

 

I've doubted Apple far too many times when they've removed popular standards from their products. No disc drive, moving to solid state storage only, moving from 30-pin to lightning (an apple to apple move but still an unpopular one).

 

Only time will tell.

[dalekphalm]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Want to know how to fit more battery into a phone? Make it thicker. Removing the headphone jack won't do jack shit in terms of how much battery they can fit.

I actually did the math on this (although quite rough estimates). Assuming you could remove the headphone jack and then fill all the space it uses with extra battery (which you most likely couldn't, because batteries aren't like Play-doh), which has the same energy density as the current iPhone battery, you would get an extra 70mAh. That's it.

 

It won't save a lot of space. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a lot smaller than some people seem to think. Even the microSIM slot takes up more space.

What do you mean speaker with onboard DAC? There is already a DAC in the phone.

 

Why do you think that a pair of lightning headphones will sound better than a pair of analog headphones?

@RedRound2 That is a good point - why would a pair of Lightning Headphones sound LITERALLY ANY DIFFERENT AT ALL compared to a comparable set of 3.5mm headphones? If both are designed properly, there would be absolutely 100% no difference.

 

Assuming that the Lightning Jack is outputting a pure analog signal from the DAC in the phone straight up into the headphones (Which we are assuming have the exact same drivers), then the headphones wouldn't know the difference. Lightning would sound no different, and would certainly not sound better.

 

Now let's assume the alternate: That the Lightning headphones are using a digital connection to the phone: That means the phone is creating a digital signal, sending it out over the Lightning connector, up into a SECOND DAC (Because we all know the iPhone will still have a DAC), which will then get converted and output to the drivers.

 

Will this sound better than the 3.5mm analog headphones? It entirely depends on that 2nd DAC. One thing is for sure though, these "digital" headphones will be bigger, heavier, and bulker. Maybe not by a noticeable amount, but all of those measurements will definitely increase, due to housing the DAC. If the DAC itself is a higher quality DAC then what is inside the iPhone (Which is arguably already a pretty good DAC), then yes, it'll sound better. But that better DAC won't come cheap. You can be damn sure they'll charge a premium for it. Or maybe the DAC is quite a bit shittier, because the headphone maker wants to sell their new apple compatible headphones for the same price as their old ones - so they cheap out on the DAC to remain competitive.

[klh2000]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

ok, maybe they could use the space for something else, i dunno it depends as they're not going to leave an empty corner anyway.

I dont know what kind of wireless headphones you've tried but the ones I've used have all been pretty awesome. Granted they're not the cheapest thing in thing as a 5$ buds but it will eventually get cheaper if the iPhone 7 drops it, increasing demand

 

Yes they will require charging, but given good buds these days last about 4-8 hours, I personally don't mind and if you do find it cumbersome you can always use to lightning to 3.5mm jack adapter, which is reportedly going to be bundled with earpods

I haven't used many wireless headphones, but the bluetooth in my car is horrible. My yamaha amp is also low quality when using bluetooth, These are all bluetooth 4.0 devices too.

 

The problem I have with using the lighting to 1/8 inch jack is that you won't be able to charge and listen at the same time unless they provide a splitter.

 

One last thing; using a digital output has no benefit at all. Headphones are, and will always be analog devices. This just means that the headphone manufacturers will have to a dac and amp in the headphones to be able to run them.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Kimmers said:

I'll keep my opinions about removing the headphone jack after its release.

 

I've doubted Apple far too many times when they've removed popular standards from their products. No disc drive, moving to solid state storage only, moving from 30-pin to lightning (an apple to apple move but still an unpopular one).

 

Only time will tell.

I agree that those were hard things to get rid of, but there was always a clear and superior successor. No one was using disc drives anymore, everyone was downloading or using USB drives.

 

People weren't storing ungodly large amounts of storage onto their mac laptops. SSD's are objectively superior in every way but price, and price has come down enough for them to stick 500GB of SSD storage into a Macbook now for a reasonable price.

 

Moving from the 30-pin to Lightning, while both proprietary connectors, was an incredibly great move. The 30-pin offered literally no benefits. It was huge, bulky, and non-reversible.

 

Granted, there could be some insane benefit that we're all just not seeing, but I remain very skeptical. I see no practical benefit to removing the 3.5mm headphone jack, and more importantly, I see no advantage to the replacement: Lightning connector.

[Kimmers]

2 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I agree that those were hard things to get rid of, but there was always a clear and superior successor. No one was using disc drives anymore, everyone was downloading or using USB drives.

 

People weren't storing ungodly large amounts of storage onto their mac laptops. SSD's are objectively superior in every way but price, and price has come down enough for them to stick 500GB of SSD storage into a Macbook now for a reasonable price.

 

Moving from the 30-pin to Lightning, while both proprietary connectors, was an incredibly great move. The 30-pin offered literally no benefits. It was huge, bulky, and non-reversible.

 

Granted, there could be some insane benefit that we're all just not seeing, but I remain very skeptical. I see no practical benefit to removing the 3.5mm headphone jack, and more importantly, I see no advantage to the replacement: Lightning connector.

I believe the largest benefit will be battery space. Battery technology has been known to progress at a snails pace and so other things need to go. Also, I don't believe the lightning connector is the only replacement for the 3.5mm jack. 

[BuckGup]

Thinner wow less battery!! I want a phone twice as thick as the 6s that has a 10000mah battery in it that lasts 2 days. Not that hard EVERYONE

[Trixanity]

I tell you hwat. 

 

Apple will make a brain implant that will allow us to hear the digital signal from their amazing Lightning connector. Problem solved. This is so much better. 

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Kimmers said:

I believe the largest benefit will be battery space. Battery technology has been known to progress at a snails pace and so other things need to go. Also, I don't believe the lightning connector is the only replacement for the 3.5mm jack. 

How will battery space benefit us? @LAwLz already did some basic math, and we'd get an extra 70 mAh. We're literally only getting an extra 30-45 minutes, if they could somehow squeeze a battery into that small area. If they want a bigger battery, it's simple. Make the whole thing thicker, and you can exponentially increase battery capacity by comparison. Even a few mm of extra thickness would help.

 

What else would replace the 3.5mm jack? Bluetooth? That's not a replacement, that's a sidegrade that is already available right now. Why should I have to give up my 3.5mm jack for a technology that I already have access to? I'm not getting anything out of that, I'm simply losing functionality. Plus going Bluetooth has many issues: More expensive by comparison, battery life issues, interference issues, the fact that the headphone now needs to have a DAC and AMP, etc.

[klh2000]

Here is the reason this won't allow for more battery space:

 

 

With the jack, Just like the Iphone 6

 

 

Here is how people think the battery will be shaped

 

 

LIPO cells cannot be made into any shape, with current battery technology the have to be rectangular.

[suicidalfranco]

54 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I agree that those were hard things to get rid of, but there was always a clear and superior successor. No one was using disc drives anymore, everyone was downloading or using USB drives.

 

People weren't storing ungodly large amounts of storage onto their mac laptops. SSD's are objectively superior in every way but price, and price has come down enough for them to stick 500GB of SSD storage into a Macbook now for a reasonable price.

 

Moving from the 30-pin to Lightning, while both proprietary connectors, was an incredibly great move. The 30-pin offered literally no benefits. It was huge, bulky, and non-reversible.

 

Granted, there could be some insane benefit that we're all just not seeing, but I remain very skeptical. I see no practical benefit to removing the 3.5mm headphone jack, and more importantly, I see no advantage to the replacement: Lightning connector.

the 30 pin connector had RCA contacts, not sure if the lighting does

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

the 30 pin connector had RCA contacts, not sure if the lighting does

RCA as in AV/Composite Yellow/Red/White?

[suicidalfranco]

and adding an extra mm of thickness would not only remove that hideous camera hump, it would also allow for more battery than what ou would get by removing the jack cause this

(shot taken to my my own iPhone) will not make any difference to battery life, specially if the intent is to shave off an extra mm to claim thinnest phone title