Expect iPhone 7 w/ Similar design and removed headphone jack this fall, Major changes next year for the 10th year Anniversary

[RedRound2]

3 hours ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Also, you keep comparing your bluebirds to your crappie Samsung pair. That's an 80$ product Vs a ~5$ product. Of Course its going to be better. But that has everything to do with the drivers and nothing to do with the price. Compare you bluebirds to anoyher $80 IEM. odds are that they won't be as good. 

I didn't compare, I was just saying that's what 90% of people use and wireless is better than that which is good enough for most people 

2 hours ago, Linusinium said:

OP posted the article, which is fine but then he repeatedly tried to sell "the innovation" to tech enthusiasts.

Never said it was an innovation. I see this exactly as the times when they ditched stuff before and I've seen the result of it. 

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Wait, the iPhone doesn't stop music when you unplug your earphones? That is a limitation of iOS, not 3.5mm. Android phones does it. I am 100% sure Apple could implement it as well. Wanna know why I know that? Because when you plug in your headphones the speaker gets disabled right? You don't get sound out from both your speaker and headphones. That's because the OS recognizes that you have plugged your headphones in, and disables the speaker though software. All they would have to do is add a little line of code that also stops music when this disabling/enabling of the speakers occurs.

No need to change to Lighting to stop music when headphones gets unplugged.

Oh my god!!!

I was talking about when you remove headphones from your head, or earbuds from you ear, which is useful when someone suddenly starts talking to you. 

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From a hardware and software point of view it is a mess. It's just that the mess gets covered to the end users. Bluetooth audio is like building a house on top of a swamp. Might look nice inside, but if you look under the floor you see that horrible mess of dead animals and crap it's built upon.

It is like I said before, Bluetooth is more complex, not plug-and-play, uses more power, requires batteries, does not support as good audio quality, more prone to interference and is not "backwards compatible" with existing headphones. All those drawbacks, just so that we can save a tiny bit of space inside phones. It is quite frankly idiotic.

Do you want to use Bluetooth for audio? Fine, go ahead and do that if you are okay with all the drawbacks. Removing the option to use something else for the people who are not okay with the drawbacks is a terrible idea though.

Yes except you completely ignored all my reasoning and points and went on repeating the same thing. I OWN one. Many people own them too. Me and all those people dont seem to have these issues you're talking about. Maybe it's a stupid idea, but since there's literally no progression in our little conversation, we'll wait and see where this goes

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Having to charge them is still worse than not having to charge them. It is a pain in the ass because it requires planning. I have a pair of earphones in my bag at all times. Wherever I go I can just plug them in and it will work. No though or planning needed. If I had to move to Bluetooth then all of a sudden I would have to plan and charge them every time I had to go somewhere. Spontaneously want to bring them with you when you go out? Can't do that unless you happened to have charged them earlier. Like for me right now, I haven't used the earphones in my bag for over a week. If they were Bluetooth then I would not be able to just leave my house right now and bring them with me, because they would probably be out of power (they lose their charge even when not in use).

Yes, it requires a very meticulous planning, otherwise your whole life would fall apart. /s

The extent you go to disapprove a point it just absurd

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Pair it once, for each device. Even having to pair it once is worse than never having to pair it.

Just wow. Since your point just stupid, I'm pretty sure untangling cables is a bigger nightmare

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Having Bluetooth on at all times and using it will use more than 5%. It also uses power from two devices rather than one.

Which is why I said my usage patterns. 5% on my phone and once a week charging for my buds. Practically nothing for me and most people. Just the fact that it's wireless and you can run or cycle with it reason enough to outweigh that point

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When did I say it was the biggest problem? It is more prone to interference. It uses the same 2.4GHz band as a ton of other things use.

You might not have that much issues with it right now, but that might be because there aren't that many Bluetooth devices in your surrounding at the moment. A quick Google search reveals that plenty of companies including Bose and Apple got support pages how to minimize interference on your Bluetooth devices.

The more Bluetooth devices there are around you, the bigger this issue will become. Now imagine on a bus where you might have 50 devices in range, all trying to communicate with Bluetooth as well as WiFi. It will probably not work that well.

This is also a problem that can not be solved. Bluetooth uses a shared medium so it is physically impossible to get rid of interference. It is an issue that will become bigger and bigger as more things move to wireless.

Never had this issue, even in my kitchen, a place with my two diffrent wifi signals overlapping, cordless phone and a microwave oven

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Yes, and a 90 dollar pair of 3.5mm headphones would sound better than what 90% of people use. Might even be better than what 95% of people use.

But this is a shit argument you are trying to make. You are essentially saying "Yeah Bluetooth is way worse in almost every single way, but it's not bad enough that people who are used to the sound of 5 dollar earphones would complain, so therefore we should go with it". You are arguing for change just for the sake of change. You are arguing for removing options from consumers without any benefit.

You are so desperate to defend Apple's potentially horrendous decision that you are throwing all logic and reason out the window, and you're talking about things you clearly have no understanding of.

I find Bluetooth better from personal experience and that's probably the only reason why I stand with Apple here. You want me to disapprove some of Apple's methods, sure just ask.

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I know the dimensions of phone internals very well thank you. Removing the 3.5mm headphone jack, filling all that space with extra battery and then use Bluetooth for audio instead would most likely result in a net loss of battery life. The extra battery space would most likely not be enough to offset the extra power required for Bluetooth audio. That's how little space you actually save from removing the 3.5mm headphone jack.

Want better battery life? Make the phone slightly thicker. Even a tiny increase in thickness will do waaaay more than filling the 3.5mm jack space with extra battery.

And again you bring up the battery. Battery was just a suggestion.

 

You claim to know how small phone components are and for some reason you still say that 3.5mm depth and a centimeter long insignificant. *facepalm

 

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I can't figure out what you meant with this post. Don't know if it's me being dumb or your English being bad. In what way is Bluetooth as good as 3.5mm for audio?

Sound quality? Nope.

Power usage? Nope.

Interference? Nope.

Compatibility? Nope.

Price? Nope.

So I figure you haven't even read my entire post before. I thought I made it clear with my bullet points but nope you still keep repeating the same thing

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1) When we "replaced" DVD drives we already had alternatives which gave us the same quality but with more convenience. Downloading a song can have the exact same quality as listening to it straight from the CD, but you also got the convenience of not having to physically pick the CD up and store it. This is not the case with Bluetooth vs 3.5mm. I have already listed the drawbacks several times so I think you get it at this point.

You have better alternatives, not everyone especially with internet caps

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2) Removing the optical drive saved a ton of space. The fact that you even try to compare removing the optical drive to removing the 3.5mm headphone jack indicates that you have absolutely no idea about the size of different components.

Here is a comparison. On the left you can see how much room the optical drive took up. On the right you can see how much space the 3.5mm headphone jack takes up.

I don't understand how you manage to mix so many things up. When I saying some things I only mean it whatever sentence it was used in. It doesn't have a deeper meaning like poem. You were talking about options, so I proposed we should've kept optical drives as many people still do use them. I am not supporting the fact that we should bring back optical drives nor that the fact I'm not aware of the numerous advantages it brought after its departure, but I only brought it up for a superficial comparison where you brought up that option were good.

 

I'm really getting tired of this now

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3) People were able to rip their music and other things and create exact duplicates for storing on their hard drives. As long as you had one optical drive somewhere you could get the same data to all your devices, even those without optical drives. That is not the case here.

Yeah, because everybody knows how to rip software game CDs or DRM protected music and movies

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4) When Apple removed the optical drive a lot of people had already abandoned it. It was a dying technology where the usage was declining. 3.5mm on the other hand is just getting more and more popular.

Really, Expected someone like you to know the fact that it's Apple who were always the ones to get rid of legacy tech all this time and it's no different now

You can also see google search results here

 

I'm done, I honestly don't wish to waste my time having this meaningless argument with you

Oh and I will make sure I will return to this after a 2-3 years to discuss what happens.

 

I still remember our similar argument where you claimed with your own chart about how we needed 800+ ppi phones in order not see any pixelation on phones. Thankfully, like I said almost everyone agrees 1080p is more than enough and industry has settled one step higher for 1440p. Now the only reason to move forward is VR something which we both didn't see coming at the time

 

[Unhelpful]

3 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Really, Expected someone like you to know the fact that it's Apple who were always the ones to get rid of legacy tech all this time and it's no different now

You can also see google search results here

 

I'm done, I honestly don't wish to waste my time having this meaningless argument with you

 

Calm down. Don't be a child, and don't be an Apple shill. You losing doesn't make an argument meaningless. So, how is 3.5mm legacy? There is no suitable equal replacement that won't hinder usability. You either drop quality, can't charge at the same time, or need a splitter.

[RedRound2]

14 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

Calm down. Don't be a child, and don't be an Apple shill. You losing doesn't make an argument meaningless.

Um, I lost? I have points and experience to back it up yet you and Lawlz refuse to believe me. Fine don't but  believe some reviewer about experiences of using a bluetooth earbud atleast.

 

Do you want me list out what I'm annoyed with Apple, sure I can do it, just ask.

 

The only reason I seem to support Apple much is because Apple is the only company who receives so much shit despite what they've basically done all these while shaping up the industry 

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So, how is 3.5mm legacy? There is no suitable equal replacement that won't hinder usability. You either drop quality, can't charge at the same time, or need a splitter.

Legacy: denoting software or hardware that has been superseded (by bluetooth or lightning IMO) but is difficult to replace because of its wide use. 

It doesn't have any quality issues unless you're comparing it some $1000 headphone which 95% are not going to

[ChineseChef]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Wait, the iPhone doesn't stop music when you unplug your earphones? -snip-

My iPhone 4/4s/5/5s and my current 6s all stop music if the audio cable is unplugged.  This is not a new a unique feature.

 

(I agree with all your points, just letting you know the iPhone does do this since you don't own one)

[Unhelpful]

4 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

 

I don't just shit on Apple. I shit on every company when they deserve to be shit other, whether that's Microsoft (it usually is, fuck Microsoft), Google, or Apple. Among those 3, Apple gets the least amount of my shit. Right now there is zero benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack. Bluetooth headphones are worse, and if you go lightning then you can't charge and listen to music at the same time without the use of a splitter. And no, we're not talking $1k headphones, we're talking everything below $75. The Jaybird X2's are the cheapest actually decent bluetooth headphones, imo.

 

There's no benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack. You gain nothing, and remove compatibility with a still-useful and not-replaced tech that has no ubiquitous proposed replacement.

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, ChineseChef said:

My iPhone 4/4s/5/5s and my current 6s all stop music if the audio cable is unplugged.  This is not a new a unique feature.

 

(I agree with all your points, just letting you know the iPhone does do this since you don't own one)

Was talking about when you remove headphones from your head, or earbuds from your ear. Basically smart features

Incredibly useful when someone just starts talking to you suddenly

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

I don't just shit on Apple. I shit on every company when they deserve to be shit other, whether that's Microsoft (it usually is, fuck Microsoft), Google, or Apple. Among those 3, Apple gets the least amount of my shit.

I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about others which I'm sure you must've noticed

2 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

 Right now there is zero benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack. Bluetooth headphones are worse, and if you go lightning then you can't charge and listen to music at the same time without the use of a splitter. And no, we're not talking $1k headphones, we're talking everything below $75. The Jaybird X2's are the cheapest actually decent bluetooth headphones, imo.

There's no benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack. You gain nothing, and remove compatibility with a still-useful and not-replaced tech that has no ubiquitous proposed replacement.

Not going to bother repeating my points for like the 100th time. Read my absurdly long replies (2nd last one, I believe) if you want know why

 

[Unhelpful]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

 

Yes I did. Fair enough.

 

I did read why. And it can be summed up by saying "Apple will make it work. If any company can make people move connectors, it's them." Which I agree with, but it in no way addresses the "Why" of the action. Because there isn't an actual "why" other than making the phone thinner.

 

I'm going to drop out of here. No disrespect intended, I just dislike cyclical arguments.

[ChineseChef]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

Was talking about when you remove headphones from your head, or earbuds from your ear. Basically smart features

Incredibly useful when someone just starts talking to you suddenly

And how will the cheap $5 version of the new headphones offer this?  That is not "cheap" tech that they will throw in to the stock headphones that you get with your device.  So you are basically just listing expensive super fancy features, and claiming that they are normal on the cheap crap that the masses will use.

 

I am 100% certain that Apple will remove the 3.5 mm jack in the next few models of iPhone, but only because they want to force users to buy new Apple only headphones.  This has nothing to do with quality, only money.  It is business, that's all.  All the old tech you are using as examples were replaced by distinct advantages of the new method.  There is no distinct advantage any method has over the 3.5mm jack, without simply using a larger connector.  Wireless anything will never be better than wired, it isn't possible according to the laws of physics.  Any features you list, like pausing when you remove your ear buds, are a feature of that product, not a feature of the connection method.

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

Yes I did. Fair enough.

 

I did read why. And it can be summed up by saying "Apple will make it work. If any company can make people move connectors, it's them." Which I agree with, but it in no way addresses the "Why" of the action. Because there isn't an actual "why" other than making the phone thinner.

 

I'm going to drop out of here. No disrespect intended, I just dislike cyclical arguments.

No no no. I specifically said second last one. My experiences with jaybird ones in bullets. For sound quality, look up Linus's and MKBHD's reviews

[Unhelpful]

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

 

Ohhh sorry about that. Yeah the Jaybirds are great, but very few bluetooth earbuds under a $50-$75 budget sound good due to the extra cost of implementing bluetooth. While it's not cheap from a BOM-cost standpoint, companies throw an additional premium on it. It's also not plug 'n play.

 

And yes, I've used plenty of them myself. Anecdotal evidence is nearly-worthless, I know, I'm just saying that I'm not going purely off of reviewer opinions.

[79wjd]

13 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Fine don't but  believe some reviewer about experiences of using a bluetooth earbud atleast.

I own/have owned Plantronics BackBeat Go2s, Jaybird X2s, Jaybird Freedoms, Klipsch S2s, and SE215s and the SE215s definitely sound better than the bluetooth IEMs that I've tried. With that said, it's a trade off I'm more than happy with since I'm not super picky and not having to deal with the wires is amazing. But I definitely wouldn't say bluetooth and non-bluetooth headphones are equivalent in terms of sound quality (as of right now). 

[RedRound2]

6 minutes ago, ChineseChef said:

And how will the cheap $5 version of the new headphones offer this?  That is not "cheap" tech that they will throw in to the stock headphones that you get with your device.  So you are basically just listing expensive super fancy features, and claiming that they are normal on the cheap crap that the masses will use.

I was talking about lightning headphones which are supposed to be more expensive as the person who buys it is going to buy it for its features and audio quality. Please read the context before you jump into conclusions

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I am 100% certain that Apple will remove the 3.5 mm jack in the next few models of iPhone, but only because they want to force users to buy new Apple only headphones.  This has nothing to do with quality, only money.  It is business, that's all.  All the old tech you are using as examples were replaced by distinct advantages of the new method.  There is no distinct advantage any method has over the 3.5mm jack, without simply using a larger connector.  Any features you list, like pausing when you remove your ear buds, are a feature of that product, not a feature of the connection method.

Arg, the same thing again just with different username. Read my last 4 posts

 

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Wireless anything will never be better than wired, it isn't possible according to the laws of physics. 

Yes but for audio there's a point where it becomes indistinguishable

[RedRound2]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

With that said, it's a trade off I'm more than happy with since I'm not super picky and not having to deal with the wires is amazing.

Finally someone who appreciates bluetooth for the reasons I do

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But I definitely wouldn't say bluetooth and non-bluetooth headphones are equivalent in terms of sound quality (as of right now). 

Well then again most people use the buds that come with phone. Compared to my jaybird, jaybird sounds great and I'm certain those 95% would agree with this

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

Finally someone who appreciates bluetooth for the reasons I do

Well then again most people use the buds that come with phone. Compared to my jaybird, jaybird sounds great and I'm cetain those 95% would agree with that

Those 95% are also using headphones that were free -- i.e. not $80-$200.

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

those 95% are also using headphones that were free -- i.e. not $80-$200.

Yes exactly, but it will only get better as time passes by and eventually you'll probably get decent ones for $20. The jaybird ones was more of a proof of concept. 

The free part entirely decides on what other companies will start doing when they abandon 3.5mm when Apple will only provide an adaptor 

[ChineseChef]

4 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I was talking about lightning headphones which are supposed to be more expensive as the person who buys it is going to buy it for its features and audio quality. Please read the context before you jump into conclusions

Arg, the same thing again just with different username. Read my last 4 posts

 

Yes but for audio there's a point where it becomes indistinguishable

Your entire argument is based around your personal preference for wireless headphones/earbuds.  Every point you make is a personal preference point about high end features, that doesn't refute any of the technical arguments made against removing the 3.5 mm jack.  Apple is going to do this, then they are going to sell a stupid dongle that converts from the lightning port to 3.5mm, and everyone like you is going to say its the most brilliant thing ever invented since the beginning of time. 

 

Tires will one day be replaced on cars with something else, like magnetic hover systems, why don't we just remove tires from all cars now.  That way companies are forced to improve the magnetic hover technology.  That is your argument for ditching the 3.5mm jack.

[Unhelpful]

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

 

Alright... You're pretending that you can't have BOTH bluetooth AND 3.5mm. They can, and do, coexist. You're purely removing one thing for no reason (other than to get people to buy their new earbuds and make the phone thinner). 

 

Everything you've said is personal taste.

[RedRound2]

2 minutes ago, ChineseChef said:

Tires will one day be replaced on cars with something else, like magnetic hover systems, why don't we just remove tires from all cars now.  That way companies are forced to improve the magnetic hover technology.  That is your argument for ditching the 3.5mm jack.

Not going to bother with first part, same story

 

That's a very flawed analogy. The problem is we don't have magnetic hover system on large scale, but we do have good bluetooth buds for a long time now

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, JoeyDM said:

Alright... You're pretending that you can't have BOTH bluetooth AND 3.5mm. They can, and do, coexist. You're purely removing one thing for no reason (other than to get people to buy their new earbuds and make the phone thinner). 

 

Everything you've said is personal taste.

Please include my previous comment as it makes it very difficult for me to know which one you're replying to

They can and they have been. Result, bluetooth doesn't seem to go anywhere while 3.5mm still popular as a new tech

[ChineseChef]

2 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

, but we do have good bluetooth buds for a long time now

And they still aren't ubiquitous.  What does that tell you?  That people obviously don't want them or don't need them, or enjoy what they are currently using.  Or maybe, just maybe, the 3.5mm jack is better in the opinion of most people.

[RedRound2]

1 minute ago, ChineseChef said:

And they still aren't ubiquitous.  What does that tell you?  That people obviously don't want them or don't need them, or enjoy what they are currently using.  Or maybe, just maybe, the 3.5mm jack is better in the opinion of most people.

Because no one realizes it's good. Lawlz keep talking about interference when I don't have interference issue in my kitchen there are two wifi signals overlapping, cordless phone and a microwave oven.

3.5mm is so readily available that people don't explore other options. You want to force development, remove what is stopping it

[Trixanity]

40 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Was talking about when you remove headphones from your head, or earbuds from your ear. Basically smart features

Incredibly useful when someone just starts talking to you suddenly

Such features would require even more extra hardware in your headphones. They need one or more sensors to detect that. That drives up cost, adds more complexity and makes your headphones even bulkier.

[ChineseChef]

12 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Because no one realizes it's good. Lawlz keep talking about interference when I don't have interference issue in my kitchen there are two wifi signals overlapping, cordless phone and a microwave oven.

3.5mm is so readily available that people don't explore other options. You want to force development, remove what is stopping it

Perhaps they do realize that wireless headphones are good.  Many of us have them.  I have some.  But you know what is great about the 3.5 mm jack?  It just works, 100% of the time.  No charging, no pairing, a billion different devices already have 3.5mm jacks on them.  All of the old devices that people already have, like cars, or home stereos, or headphones that people have already invested in, all of these things just work.  No firmware issues, no compatibility issues, cables and devices are cheap and reliable.

 

The argument for wireless devices is about the convenience of having no cables, that's it.  That is the only advantage of wireless over wired.  Because every other feature that wireless devices have, can be put on wired headphones.  Those extra features are simply a cost issue, not a wired vs wireless issue.  And wireless have numerous disadvantages compared to wired, charging/pairing/software or firmware version issues/device compatibility/potential interference in noisy RF environments/considerably more power usage.

[Zodiark1593]

Provided there are audio/dac adaptors that a) have a DAC worth it's silicon, b) have an extra charging port, and c) be low profile enough to use in a pocket, then I won't mind too much. My home headphones are expensive. Not replacing them unless they're broken. 

 

Actually, most high end headphones already come with detachable cables. Seem some with USB C and integrated DAC and the transition off the headphone port will go a tad smoother