[Updated] Sony officially confirms 4K ready Playstation - "PS4 Neo"

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Sauron said:

May I ask you what the point of a console is then? 

I've been wondering that one myself for years: Still no good answer to that one. 

[VerticalDiscussions]

2 hours ago, ohitsluca said:

-snip-

This console will probably be achieving 1080p at 60 fps at last XD!

[IG-88]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

May I ask you what the point of a console is then? Retrocompatibility is nice of course, but the moment you start sectioning graphical quality you've basically built a locked down overpriced pc.

The point is the same as overpriced apple products. It's for people who can't be bothered to learn about pc hardware and how to build a pc. It's basically for people who want to plug something in and have it work out of the box. 

[Sauron]

28 minutes ago, IG-88 said:

have it work out of the box. 

That doesn't work anymore if you start to have ingame settings, compatibility concerns within the same generation and multiple boxes that look identical to choose from. Not to mention most games need to be installed and updated before running nowadays.

[Atmos]

Well played sony.

Now let's see that maximum motion blur, 24fps, all low graphical setting, temporal anti-aliasing 4k gameplay. Nothing will ever look better than something that looks like what a mostly blind man sees while having a stroke; I'm honestly doubtful you'll see a difference between the two!

 

In all seriousness though... The ps4 can barely handle 1080p as it is, this new neo MIGHT be able to manage 24-30fps on literally all low settings, and might look even maybe marginally smooth if they max out on as much motion blur and shitey aliasing, filtering, and anisotropic filtering. What you're going to get though, is far from what you should be. This should NOT be for 4k, this should maybe be relevant for people who have Qhd tv's (which many just don't) or for actual pleasant 1080p gameplay.

[IG-88]

3 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That doesn't work anymore if you start to have ingame settings, compatibility concerns within the same generation and multiple boxes that look identical to choose from. Not to mention most games need to be installed and updated before running nowadays.

My guess is there won't be graphics options like pc. It will simply detect which console version you have and automatically give you the appropriate settings. (i.e. Higher Frame rates and/or graphics if you have ps4 neo.) 

[Atmos]

2 minutes ago, IG-88 said:

My guess is there won't be graphics options like pc. It will simply detect which console version you have and automatically give you the appropriate settings. (i.e. Higher Frame rates and/or graphics if you have ps4 neo.) 

The problem is most if not all of the ps4 games are fps capped, so the neo probably wont even improve fps on a great deal of games. There will be less stuttering, for sure, but not really better fps.

Also, never said anything about being able to change settings, was actually sort of joking about how they'll slap you with all the worst possible settings making the game look like utter shit, just to get it to play at 4k.

[Commander Llama]

12 minutes ago, Sauron said:

That doesn't work anymore if you start to have ingame settings, compatibility concerns within the same generation and multiple boxes that look identical to choose from. Not to mention most games need to be installed and updated before running nowadays.

And people do complain about these things. Sometimes for legit reasons too. Whether your main gaming driver is console or PC, if you live in a rural area with shit Internet, mandatory day zero game updates have been a big problem for years. However, there is a "vast" (for the people in question) gulf of knowledge between researching parts and building a budget gaming PC geared for living room play out of those parts, versus going to most any big box store, buying one box, take it home, plug it in, and it works, irregardless of any setup woes that might exist (because those woes are the same, or more difficult, setting up a new PC).

 

Basically, people are lazy, and convenience is highly valued. Also, while the gap is shrinking, console hardware is still cheaper than an equivalent PC. You cannot build an mITX/HTPC that will go toe to toe with a PS4 for ~5 years with the same performance, unless you somehow scored a dirt-cheap, recent series GPU and Windows for free. Of course, you can get way, way, way more and cheaper games on PC and you don't pay for network services (PSN), so I think PC wins out hard in the medium/long term. But... People are also short-sighted, on top of lazy. They don't think with that kind of foresight on average.

[PlayStation 2]

"upscaled"

"looks good to me fam"

 

I'm illustrating a point, doesn't have to be perfect

[Sauron]

29 minutes ago, IG-88 said:

My guess is there won't be graphics options like pc. It will simply detect which console version you have and automatically give you the appropriate settings. (i.e. Higher Frame rates and/or graphics if you have ps4 neo.) 

Fair enough as long as they're only 2... and at that point isn't that basically like what happened when the ps3 was still getting ports while the ps4 was already out?

[Sauron]

17 minutes ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

"upscaled"

"looks good to me fam"

 

I'm illustrating a point, doesn't have to be perfect

It looks like jagged garbage on a 4k screen, but maybe that was the joke...

[Misanthrope]

41 minutes ago, Commander Llama said:

And people do complain about these things. Sometimes for legit reasons too. Whether your main gaming driver is console or PC, if you live in a rural area with shit Internet, mandatory day zero game updates have been a big problem for years. However, there is a "vast" (for the people in question) gulf of knowledge between researching parts and building a budget gaming PC geared for living room play out of those parts, versus going to most any big box store, buying one box, take it home, plug it in, and it works, irregardless of any setup woes that might exist (because those woes are the same, or more difficult, setting up a new PC).

 

Basically, people are lazy, and convenience is highly valued. Also, while the gap is shrinking, console hardware is still cheaper than an equivalent PC. You cannot build an mITX/HTPC that will go toe to toe with a PS4 for ~5 years with the same performance, unless you somehow scored a dirt-cheap, recent series GPU and Windows for free. Of course, you can get way, way, way more and cheaper games on PC and you don't pay for network services (PSN), so I think PC wins out hard in the medium/long term. But... People are also short-sighted, on top of lazy. They don't think with that kind of foresight on average.

You say 5+ years of a thread about confirmation that just disproved this point. 

 

Talk about defeating your own argument. 

[Commander Llama]

7 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

You say 5+ years of a thread about confirmation that just disproved this point. 

 

Talk about defeating your own argument. 

Um... present PS4's aren't suddenly useless because a new model comes out. Are PCs running GPUs two gens old useless too?

[Me1z]

I'm finding it incredibly hard to believe that the PS4 neo will be able to properly play games at 4K resolutions. This new 36CU GPU looks like a gimped, underclocked R9 390, and no one in their right mind would call a 390 "4K ready". Its more in the territory of "4K if you think framerate is just a number". The only way I'd believe this is if you can crossfire two PS4 neos together, THAT just might be 4K ready.

[Citadelen]

5 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

-snip-

The generation after this one will probably use Zen cores and dual graphics. Zen isn't ready yet.

[Misanthrope]

19 minutes ago, Commander Llama said:

Um... present PS4's aren't suddenly useless because a new model comes out. Are PCs running GPUs two gens old useless too?

Actually a bit : have you seen Kepler performance lately? Maxwell will soon fall off the face of proper driver support. 

 

It just doesn't feels as bad cause of the vast library of past games which is my point : x86 consoles should be fully backwards compatible creating a similar scenario. 

[PlayStation 2]

47 minutes ago, Sauron said:

It looks like jagged garbage on a 4k screen, but maybe that was the joke...

Yep, that was my point.

[WolfDeville]

They should've focused on making a PS4 that will run all games at 1080p, 60fps and most (if not all) the eye candy options on high. Seriously 4k is pointless if its gonna be locked down to 30fps and the detailing looking like shit. But who knows, maybe the neo can do 4k 60fps + high detailing.

[Doobeedoo]

Targeting "hardcore gamers" huh. 4K ready, so as in playback. Let's see how it will do 1080p60 this time with new spec.
On the other note, it will be weird to see this so called mid-cycle console upgrade and same games on both. Seems it could be limiting to newer console cause they need to keep everything working for both the same. That limits potential for stronger one.

[Dabombinable]

9 hours ago, Kobathor said:

It can output a 4k video signal over HDMI 2.0 IIRC. No, the PS4 Neo won't be able to game at 4k. Maybe some casual games. 

Its not really meant to be a $K console but one that can actually fucking run all of its games at 1080p.

[Kimmers]

I really hope developers are on board with this. I would be extremely disappointed to see the asterisk, "only works on PS4K*" next to PS4 titles. I also hope for equal optimization for both platforms even though its more work for the developer. 

[sof006]

So its not going to have the rumored 4.8TFlops of performance then? Those specs are marginally better.... not enough to increase the performance to that level though.

[Dabombinable]

4 minutes ago, sof006 said:

So its not going to have the rumored 4.8TFlops of performance then? Those specs are marginally better.... not enough to increase the performance to that level though.

1080p is supposed to be the minimum resolution for any game....so perhaps that's what devs and their slave drivers (AKA publishers).

[Zodiark1593]

On 6/10/2016 at 6:10 AM, yorkiesandskittles said:

This is the PS4 we should have gotten back in 2013.

Do keep in mind that Neither Sony nor Microsoft wanted a repeat of the PS3/X360 failure rate and other such issues of cramming high end hardware in small boxes.

 

At 28nm, a Hawaii based APU would output far more heat than what is currently being used. Extra heat means beefed up cooling system, either larger heatsinks, faster and louder fans, or both. In addition, the PSU would also have to be upgraded to accommodate the higher power consumption and it's own heat output. Also, depending on how far temps are pushed, the failure rate may be elevated until a die shrink occurred (would have been 2 years).

 

All of the above factors would have pushed costs far higher than what Microsoft and Sony would have considered acceptable. Even if they decided upon eating losses-per-console again, you would end up with a hulking jet-engine in your living room (probably close to reference 290X).

 

Given the options, I believed the way they went was the best move with what they had. They eliminated the issues that plagued early x360/PS3 units at the expense of bleeding-edge performance, instead settling a couple tiers down. A reasonable trade off, is it not?

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Do keep in mind that Neither Sony nor Microsoft wanted a repeat of the PS3/X360 failure rate and other such issues of cramming high end hardware in small boxes.

 

At 28nm, a Hawaii based APU would output far more heat than what is currently being used. Extra heat means beefed up cooling system, either larger heatsinks, faster and louder fans, or both. In addition, the PSU would also have to be upgraded to accommodate the higher power consumption and it's own heat output. Also, depending on how far temps are pushed, the failure rate may be elevated until a die shrink occurred (would have been 2 years).

 

All of the above factors would have pushed costs far higher than what Microsoft and Sony would have considered acceptable. Even if they decided upon eating losses-per-console again, you would end up with a hulking jet-engine in your living room (probably close to reference 290X).

 

Given the options, I believed the way they went was the best move with what they had. They eliminated the issues that plagued early x360/PS3 units at the expense of bleeding-edge performance, instead settling a couple tiers down. A reasonable trade off, is it not?

The problem with early PS3 and Xbox is that MS and Sony tried to sue the same cooling solution as they did on their previous consoles-and screwed it up badly. The old Xbox for example gets away with a single fan as its high RPM, and the case is designed so that air is drawn in from both sides and cools everything(you can actually feel the airflow easily-even when they are running at their low settings).