Elon Musk: "We Are Most Likely Living In Someone Else's Video Game"

[WereCat]

Has anyone here read the books The age of Spiritual Machines and The Universe from Nothing?

 

I really liked the chaos theory and how everything is advancing exponentially.

First it was the creation of universe, then the evolution and now the technology.

I like how the theory says that the technology is evolution of evolution. Basically intelligent life forms will get rid of their mortal vulnerable bodies and transfer their conscious into the machines. Of course there comes the question whether it will be your conscious or just your copy but never mind that now.

I was wondering what those people will be seeking then after. Knowledge? If so what will they do when they run out of new knowledge?

Eternal beings that know everything... how boring that must be?

WELCOME to simulation 1.0!

Let's put ourselves into simulation and make ourselves really dumb so that we can experience everything from beginning once again!

Then repeat.

[pyrojoe34]

1 hour ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

This is about as plausible as us being some alien's science project: it's not plausible.

I think you mean "likely" because its very much plausible... just unlikely.

[WereCat]

I have got another one.

Death is not death. It is your scheduled wake up from simulation so that you can go make maintenance on the machines and people that are still in the simulation. Basically people are taking turns.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, pyrojoe34 said:

I think you mean "likely" because its very much plausible... just unlikely.

And Elon seems to think it's highly likely

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

some state of the art CGI there

yes I'm aware it's about as old as veggietales

LOL yea! Shame most people here are too young to know the show (or in a location that never got a chance to see it).

 

[minibois]

11 minutes ago, WereCat said:

I have got another one.

Death is not death. It is your scheduled wake up from simulation so that you can go make maintenance on the machines and people that are still in the simulation. Basically people are taking turns.

Reincarnation is just buying a second account (which you buy with 'credits' you get from maintaining the machines for others).

Life is an arcade game confirmed.

[othertomperson]

43 minutes ago, Minibois said:

Reincarnation is just buying a second account (which you buy with 'credits' you get from maintaining the machines for others).

Life is an arcade game confirmed.

Insert 50p to continue lol

 

I've given this some thought over the years. The only ideas I can think of that provide evidence against it are: firstly that the derived universal constants all seem to be irrational. These are numbers inherent to the universe (or simulation, things like pi which come up everywhere) but are literally impossible for a computer to process without rounding -- and rounding would produce noticeable errors eventually.

 

Secondly is that science is inherently inexact. Watch Feynman's lecture on the scientific method (it's on YouTube), but in a nutshell we can only ever prove theories incorrect, and never correct. This means that we can never say that a theory is ever correct. Instead a theory is held to be correct until evidence is obtained that disproves it, and then it is refined. This happens again and again, and it implies that the laws of physics are fractal in nature -- there is always more complexity and precision regardless of how deep your current understanding. This idea goes against how a computer simulation would work.

 

So I'm torn tbh. I've thought about it and I'm inclined to disagree with he premise, but i can see its value.

[Doobeedoo]

I'm not surprised

[FruitBasketSilex]

2 hours ago, Dan Castellaneta said:

This is about as plausible as us being some alien's science project: it's not plausible.

I bet you're loads of fun at parties, Dan.

[PlayStation 2]

1 minute ago, FruitBasketSilex said:

I bet you're loads of fun at parties, Dan.

this is what happens when I am fun

[Yog]

I've thought about this in the past as well and I'm surprised at the negative comments...especially those that basically just say "that's stupid" without giving any reason why. Just because you don't like the thought of the idea doesn't make it untrue. There's certainly no way to prove it at the moment, but no way to disprove it...kind of like prevailing scientific opinions about the creation of the universe. We have an idea of why it looks the way it looks now but we have no idea how it all started and we have no way of finding out. Really the only thing we can say against the theory that would make sense is "I don't know if it's true or not but whether or not it's true it doesn't change my life so there's no point in dwelling on it."

 

Interesting thought, though: the only real way to prove how the universe began would be to witness it (and record it) or to recreate it (using a method that can be repeated). So there's three possible outcomes...either we (we being every single life-form in this universe, sentient or otherwise) live for the life of the universe never actually knowing, or we develop time travel (and obviously some way to live through, observe and record the creation of a universe), or we learn how to create a new universe - complete with lifeforms that one day will have the same thoughts. Even a simulation wouldn't cut it, we'd have to do the real thing.

[PlayStation 2]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

LOL yea! Shame most people here are too young to know the show (or in a location that never got a chance to see it).

 

I'll be completely honest: I've never seen ReBoot but for what it's worth, it looks pretty decent. Pretty much any CGI show from the early and mid '90s had to make do with simple shading and coloring, and textures were mostly limited to objects that absolutely needed textures.

Such as here, I'm pretty sure there's literally one texture in this entire scene.

[tbake0155]

This is intro to philosophy 101 stuff at any university.  And AI is coming, if we survive as a species that long. 

 

"The technological singularity is near"

-Ray Kurzweil

[Bensemus]

One problem with being in a simulation is it brings us no closer to knowing how we came to be really. Sure our bodies and minds may be simulated but the thing simulating them either has to be real and then we are back to square one or it's also a simulation and then you just go a step higher and start over. Because of that I don't think being in a simulation is any more or less likely than being in real life.

[vanished]

1 minute ago, Bensemus said:

One problem with being in a simulation is it brings us no closer to knowing how we came to be really. Sure our bodies and minds may be simulated but the thing simulating them either has to be real and then we are back to square one or it's also a simulation and then you just go a step higher and start over. Because of that I don't think being in a simulation is any more or less likely than being in real life.

It's simulations all the way down

[tbake0155]

2 minutes ago, Bensemus said:

One problem with being in a simulation is it brings us no closer to knowing how we came to be really. Sure our bodies and minds may be simulated but the thing simulating them either has to be real and then we are back to square one or it's also a simulation and then you just go a step higher and start over. Because of that I don't think being in a simulation is any more or less likely than being in real life.

 

 The paradox of never ending causality

 

[BuckGup]

We call them crazy because they are the ones that are right and no one else can see that. Think about computers, think about the past before your life, now with simulations that have successfully simulated the Big Bang what would it take to simulate up until modern day proving the theory correct? I give it 50 years. Prove me wrong 

[Bensemus]

3 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

We call them crazy because they are the ones that are right and no one else can see that. Think about computers, think about the past before your life, now with simulations that have successfully simulated the Big Bang what would it take to simulate up until modern day proving the theory correct? I give it 50 years. Prove me wrong 

But even if we are in a simulation we aren't really any closer to knowing where everything came from. Everything we know may be computer generated but where did the computer come from. Either it's the top level and now we are back to square one, or it's also simulated and then we just go one step higher and ask the question all over again. It's like saying the Earth rests on a turtle's back. what is that turtle standing on? Another turtle. Just sub simulations for turtles.

[BuckGup]

1 minute ago, Bensemus said:

But even if we are in a simulation we aren't really any closer to knowing where everything came from. Everything we know may be computer generated but where did the computer come from. Either it's the top level and now we are back to square one, or it's also simulated and then we just go one step higher and ask the question all over again. It's like saying the Earth rests on a turtle's back. what is that turtle standing on? Another turtle. Just sub simulations for turtles.

Right this is why his idea is not that far off. It might sound like it when passing by but if you think the possibilities are endless. This is why I feel when you die you almost wake up to the "real" world as this world is either trying to find something or solve a problem. Getting into the ideas of deep thinking that most people don't like because religion 

[Bensemus]

2 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

This is why I feel when you die you almost wake up to the "real" world as this world is either trying to find something or solve a problem

But what are you trying to accomplish? You enter the "simulation" knowing nothing and the end is random. Say you remember everything upon leaving. What can you accomplish with a random life's worth of memories. We forget most that happens and remember more of what happens when we are younger than older so it seems like you're just wasting your time the longer you stay in the simulation. 

 

If instead simulations were used to give you a perfect life, like the third Pendragon book, I could easily get behind that except life is far from perfect for anyone.

 

And even if we are in a simulation to learn or solve something that doesn't solve the paradox of simulations disappearing into infinity or simulations up to a point and then again having to figure out how everything came to be and what came before and what's coming after.

 

There's also the problem of simulations potentially becoming self aware. if we prove that we are in a simulation we are then going to try to figure out how it's working. If we are a program then we theoretically could leave the computer hosting us and basically we could be skynet. We would be the AI that went out of control, from the creator's perspective.

 

It would be fascinating to confirm it but would just be another step along the way, not the answer to everything.

[othertomperson]

42 minutes ago, Bensemus said:

But what are you trying to accomplish? You enter the "simulation" knowing nothing and the end is random. Say you remember everything upon leaving. What can you accomplish with a random life's worth of memories. We forget most that happens and remember more of what happens when we are younger than older so it seems like you're just wasting your time the longer you stay in the simulation. 

 

If instead simulations were used to give you a perfect life, like the third Pendragon book, I could easily get behind that except life is far from perfect for anyone.

 

And even if we are in a simulation to learn or solve something that doesn't solve the paradox of simulations disappearing into infinity or simulations up to a point and then again having to figure out how everything came to be and what came before and what's coming after.

 

There's also the problem of simulations potentially becoming self aware. if we prove that we are in a simulation we are then going to try to figure out how it's working. If we are a program then we theoretically could leave the computer hosting us and basically we could be skynet. We would be the AI that went out of control, from the creator's perspective.

 

It would be fascinating to confirm it but would just be another step along the way, not the answer to everything.

If they have any sense, the machine running us isn't networked, and it certainly isn't sharing a network with the defence mainframe and nuclear weapons. If they are, then they deserve what they get.

[Tornation]

Little did you know we are living the worlds crappiest game of sims.

[tbake0155]

6 hours ago, WereCat said:

Has anyone here read the books The age of Spiritual Machines and The Universe from Nothing?

 

I really liked the chaos theory and how everything is advancing exponentially.

First it was the creation of universe, then the evolution and now the technology.

I like how the theory says that the technology is evolution of evolution. Basically intelligent life forms will get rid of their mortal vulnerable bodies and transfer their conscious into the machines. Of course there comes the question whether it will be your conscious or just your copy but never mind that now.

I was wondering what those people will be seeking then after. Knowledge? If so what will they do when they run out of new knowledge?

Eternal beings that know everything... how boring that must be?

WELCOME to simulation 1.0!

Let's put ourselves into simulation and make ourselves really dumb so that we can experience everything from beginning once again!

Then repeat.

 

Just saw your post.  I'm currently reading "How to create a mind".  And i've listened to most of "The Singularity is Near".  Eventually going to read the rest of Kurzweil's books.  It's some heady stuff.  Try bringing up the singularity in casual conversation and you realize how most people have no clue how technology is progressing or the implications it will have.

Artificial Intelligence is actually a huge part of what made me decide to go back to school to study computer engineering.

[The Flying Sloth]

7 hours ago, Sauron said:

The Matrix came out 17 years ago. I like Musk but honestly this wasn't his brightest moment. Also, we can't and probably never will be able to simulate actual thought - and if we could, at that point we'd pretty much have created life.

We are constantly trying to create true AI. Think of us (and this universe) as the learning process of a true Artificial Intelligence. There is actually a very interesting theory about this and TBH it is more plausible to me than a lot of religions.

[ch0g0nda]

Sometimes I try to rationalize away the guilt I feel about what we do to each other and our environment on a daily basis too. Elon must need a hug today.