MicroSoft giving up on consumer market for smartphones; cuts 1850 jobs

[AlTech]

@GoodBytes Can you ban zMeul from making Microsoft news articles as he will always write controversial and non informative things just for personal satisfaction and to damage Microsoft?

 

 

 

[atrash]

5 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

@GoodBytes Can you ban zMeul from making Microsoft news articles as he will always write controversial and non informative things just for personal satisfaction and to damage Microsoft?

 

 

 

 

I disagree. As much as I like Microsoft products, he still has the freedom to post any related tech news here,just like all the other forumers. Let him post whatever he wants as long as it follow the forum guideline. This is not a Microsoft forum btw. There will always be bias from everyone in some ways even if one claims to be non bias. Let the community decide on how to confront/argue/discuss with each other on the topic, in a civilised manner. No personal attacks.

[LAwLz]

10 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

No. What I'm saying is people are too attached to the apps they are used to.

 

They need to not let that influence their next purchase if the OS is otherwise good.

Hey, which OS do you use on your desktop and laptop?

Oh is it Windows? Is it because you are a little "bitch" that lets things like "program compatibility" influence the OS you uses? You should just stop being a "bitch", switch to GNU/Linux and abandon all your programs you currently use.

/sarcasm

 

See what an absolutely illogical statement that is?

 

 

9 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

The problem is this: Windows 10 Mobile COULD EASILY have every single popular app that people love on iOS or Android.

I haven't read up on all the APIs for Windows Phone 10 yet, but in 8 it was literally impossible to make some of the most popular Android apps. The APIs were just not there. Developers did not have as much control over what their apps could/couldn't do. Things like file explorers, Tasker and alternative browsers (that aren't just a skin around Internet Explorer).

 

Anyway, welcome to the other side of the fence Windows fanboys. This is exactly the problem GNU/Linux have had for years. It's strange how I never saw you people trying to push people to GNU/Linux though, telling them that they are "bitches" for caring about the lack of programs. Seems like this is only a fair argument when it is about pushing users to a Windows platform...

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, LAwLz said:

Hey, which OS do you use on your desktop and laptop?

Oh is it Windows? Is it because you are a little "bitch" that lets things like "program compatibility" influence the OS you uses? You should just stop being a "bitch", switch to GNU/Linux and abandon all your programs you currently use.

/sarcasm

 

See what an absolutely illogical statement that is?

 

 

I haven't read up on all the APIs for Windows Phone 10 yet, but in 8 it was literally impossible to make some of the most popular Android apps. The APIs were just not there. Developers did not have as much control over what their apps could/couldn't do. Things like file explorers, Tasker and alternative browsers (that aren't just a skin around Internet Explorer).

 

Anyway, welcome to the other side of the fence Windows fanboys. This is exactly the problem GNU/Linux have had for years. It's strange how I never saw you people trying to push people to GNU/Linux though, telling them that they are "bitches" for caring about the lack of programs. Seems like this is only a fair argument when it is about pushing users to a Windows platform...

No but phone apps are different. People use a couple of apps significantly more than the rest on their smartphones.

 

On laptops well, all OSes are ok (mostly with the exception of Apple). The issue is professional grade software not being available on Linux. For example, a CAD software I use which is created by AutoDesk is only available on Mac or Windows. It's called Fusion 360 and I have to use it to do some of my school work.

 

As for your other comments on APIs, well Microsoft has been bust and they basically copied most APIs from IOS. Except from some Health related ones. They have more control in most areas except which browser engine they can use.

 

That's it........ In fact you could make an IOS app and download Microsoft's converter program which will convert your Objective C code into a WIndows 10 UWP app that works on Windows Phones.

[LAwLz]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

No but phone apps are different. People use a couple of apps significantly more than the rest on their smartphones.

It is exactly the same for desktops. There are a couple of programs used significantly more than the rest.

It doesn't really matter that something is only used from time to time when you actually need it. I might not use vSphere Client every day, but the few times where I need it I can't just say "oh but it's not a program I use every day so therefore it is okay that it doesn't exist for GNU/Linux. Guess I'll just not use it!".

 

 

4 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

On laptops well, all OSes are ok (mostly with the exception of Apple). The issue is professional grade software not being available on Linux. For example, a CAD software I use which is created by AutoDesk is only available on Mac or Windows. It's called Fusion 360 and I have to use it to do some of my school work.

And this is where your own words comes back to bite you in the ass.

10 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

What I'm saying is people are too attached to the apps they are used to.

 

They need to not let that influence their next purchase if the OS is otherwise good.

 

11 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Many people are just being little bitches.

So maybe you should listen to your own "advice" and stop being a "little bitch" that lets trivial things like "app availability" influence which OS you use.

 

 

8 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

As for your other comments on APIs, well Microsoft has been bust and they basically copied most APIs from IOS. Except from some Health related ones. They have more control in most areas except which browser engine they can use.

 

8 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

That's it........ In fact you could make an IOS app and download Microsoft's converter program which will convert your Objective C code into a WIndows 10 UWP app that works on Windows Phones.

iOS is far more limited than Android though. Have Microsoft been busy copying all the Android APIs too? Because that's what I care about. The things I mentioned like file explorers, Tasker and web browsers (that aren't just skins) don't exist for iOS either.

As an Android user, I don't care if iOS apps might work on Windows Phone. I care about the apps I use on my Android phone.

[AlTech]

26 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

It is exactly the same for desktops. There are a couple of programs used significantly more than the rest.

It doesn't really matter that something is only used from time to time when you actually need it. I might not use vSphere Client every day, but the few times where I need it I can't just say "oh but it's not a program I use every day so therefore it is okay that it doesn't exist for GNU/Linux. Guess I'll just not use it!".

 

 

And this is where your own words comes back to bite you in the ass.

 

 

So maybe you should listen to your own "advice" and stop being a "little bitch" that lets trivial things like "app availability" influence which OS you use.

 

 

 

iOS is far more limited than Android though. Have Microsoft been busy copying all the Android APIs too? Because that's what I care about. The things I mentioned like file explorers, Tasker and web browsers (that aren't just skins) don't exist for iOS either.

As an Android user, I don't care if iOS apps might work on Windows Phone. I care about the apps I use on my Android phone.

Which exact phone do you have out of curiosity (I know it's an Android)?

 

Oh and by the way the Bridge for Android to Windows disappeared and probably for good.

[Bouzoo]

11 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

No. What I'm saying is people are too attached to the apps they are used to.

 

They need to not let that influence their next purchase if the OS is otherwise good.

That actually makes no sense. App compatibility is one of the most important things for an OS. Why should someone even consider another OS if it doesn't support all apps that he use/need and thus he can't use it the way he wants/needs, no matter how good it is?

As an example, I use Chrome to sync my bookmarks which I ALWAYS need between my phone/laptop/pc/job/uni, so does that mean I should use, let's say, Edge on my laptop/pc when I upgrade them to Win 10 (afaik Edge supports that right?), but IE on my job/uni because they don't have Win 10 and IE doesn't support that kind of sync (and use only Edge when they finally upgrade)? I mean why should I be attached to Chrome so much right? Yes I can use Chrome on all Win platforms but it's an example of importance of app support. MS might not be at fault for that, but the consequences are on their OS. 

[ShadowCaptain]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

On laptops well, all OSes are ok (mostly with the exception of Apple).

fanboy alert

 

do yo have any objective reasoning to back that claim up about OSX?

[AlTech]

24 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

That actually makes no sense. App compatibility is one of the most important things for an OS. Why should someone even consider another OS if it doesn't support all apps that he use/need and thus he can't use it the way he wants/needs, no matter how good it is?

As an example, I use Chrome to sync my bookmarks which I ALWAYS need between my phone/laptop/pc/job/uni, so does that mean I should use, let's say, Edge on my laptop/pc when I upgrade them to Win 10 (afaik Edge supports that right?), but IE on my job/uni because they don't have Win 10 and IE doesn't support that kind of sync (and use only Edge when they finally upgrade)? I mean why should I be attached to Chrome so much right? Yes I can use Chrome on all Win platforms but it's an example of importance of app support. MS might not be at fault for that, but the consequences are on their OS. 

Well actually, most people (I know you probably aren't like this) use a couple of apps 70% of the time and the rest 30%.

 

Most of the 70% people use like Facebook, Twitter, Facebook Messenger and Instagram (with their new app) are all there. It's the other % which aren't.

 

Tech savvy users will use more apps on a daily basis but people like my mom for example behave differently.

 

My mom probably uses 5 apps on a regular basis despite having more than 20 apps installed. The phone app (built in), messaging app (also built in), email client (also built in), the Ferry App (3rd party) and SuperCell's clone of Farmville (I can't remember the name) (3rd party).

 

3 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

fanboy alert

 

do yo have any objective reasoning to back that claim up about OSX?

Finder is an absolute bitch to use and find anything which is kinda ironic.

 

Also, Launchpad is absolutely terrible. Lack of a Personal Digital assistant is also terrible. Objective C is really bad. OS X has no support or consideration for touch screens. And it's just a mess with 50% of the Mac Apps in the Mac App Store and the other 50% which are downloaded from websites.

 

At least Microsoft differentiates the apps from the store from the programs downloaded from a browser. UWP apps are exclusive to the Store and traditional Win32 programs are exclusive to downloading from browsers.

 

Microsoft offers a far superior multi window Split screen experience in the form of snapping programs to the sides of your screen.

 

Even Microsoft Office for Mac lacks key programs like Publisher or Access. Key tools for professionals.

The lack of customizability is a big disadvantage for Apple.

[.:MARK:.]

26 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

OS X has no support or consideration for touch screens.

They don't make touchscreen computers so...

[vorticalbox]

11 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

The problem is this: Windows 10 Mobile COULD EASILY have every single popular app that people love on iOS or Android.

 

The OS is certainly capable of having those apps. The app developers simply don't bother to make the apps. Which then feeds into the idea that "Windows Mobile has no apps", which causes less people to buy the devices, which means the marketshare doesn't grow, which fuels the original problem of devs not bothering to port their apps.

 

It's a circular problem. Microsoft essentially has to bribe devs to write apps for their platform - not because the platform sucks, or lacks the things that the competitors have, but simply because the platform has a small marketshare.

 

If any new Mobile OS entered the market, they'd have the exact same issue.

I think thats the idea for universal app, xarmina with visual studio.  If they pull it off you will be able to code an app once and run it on everything.

[AlTech]

7 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

I think thats the idea for universal app, xarmina with visual studio.  If they pull it off you will be able to code an app once and run it on everything.

1) Small typo. It's Xamarin

 

2) What you said is technically true BUT in practice you're gonna make minor adjustments that are better suited to phones or laptops or whatever,

 

E.g. On an app for Windows 10 Mobile, pressing the back button should go back within the app instead of exiting the app.

 

And the devices you can run it on are limited to: IoT, Phones, Tablets, Laptops, Desktops, Xbox One (in the summer with Anniversary Update) and HoloLens (Also probably in the summer with Anniversary update).

 

35 minutes ago, .:MARK:. said:

They don't make touchscreen computers so...

They should though....

 

I am so used to touch screens & 90+ % of all Windows Trackpads suck so much that, frankly I  prefer using a touchscreen to a mouse unless it's a desktop.

[handymanshandle]

7 hours ago, atrash said:

But..but.. If I dont like the OS eventhough others prefer and benefit from it, it still needs to die. Everything I like is the only thing that is allowed to exist.. /s

Kek.

Even if the amount of people that prefer Windows Mobile and somehow benefit from it is relatively miniscule.

Seriously though, competition is usually a good thing.

 

On the subjective note, the general consensus was you either hated Win Mobile or you really liked it. Of course some might have been varying degrees of dislike or like. Regardless. If relevant, I didn't really like the way Win Mobile looked.

 

App support did assist in the death of Win Mobile but it was more than just that. Also people just tended to prefer Android or iOS. Not only for just app support but in the way the OS functioned and worked. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

They should though....

 

I am so used to touch screens & 90+ % of all Windows Trackpads suck so much that, frankly I  prefer using a touchscreen to a mouse unless it's a desktop.

They don't produce a product that supports it though - why would they bother? It's like saying that they need to start adding support for LSI RAID controllers and Tesla graphics cards despite not selling those either.

[AlTech]

2 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

They don't produce a product that supports it though - why would they bother? It's like saying that they need to start adding support for LSI RAID controllers and Tesla graphics cards despite not selling those either.

iPads do

[vorticalbox]

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

1) Small typo. It's Xamarin

 

2) What you said is technically true BUT in practice you're gonna make minor adjustments that are better suited to phones or laptops or whatever,

 

E.g. On an app for Windows 10 Mobile, pressing the back button should go back within the app instead of exiting the app.

 

And the devices you can run it on are limited to: IoT, Phones, Tablets, Laptops, Desktops, Xbox One (in the summer with Anniversary Update) and HoloLens (Also probably in the summer with Anniversary update).

 

They should though....

 

I am so used to touch screens & 90+ % of all Windows Trackpads suck so much that, frankly I  prefer using a touchscreen to a mouse unless it's a desktop.

I think right now they have 80% of the same code across PC, tablet/phone and xbone with hopes to make it 100% but yeah there will always be some small tweaks. What will be nice is that the main bulk of the code is the same which hopefuly will boost windows phone app base and thus user base.

I have a lumia 950, it's actually a very nice ecosystem some apps are lacking, such as Facebook massager is massively behind android/iso but i believe that the Facebook app is actually developed by Microsoft and not Facebook.

[.:MARK:.]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

iPads do

Just stop.

[AlTech]

16 minutes ago, .:MARK:. said:

Just stop.

What? it was a legitimate response

[.:MARK:.]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

What? it was a legitimate response

It was a legitimately stupid response.

[handymanshandle]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well actually, most people (I know you probably aren't like this) use a couple of apps 70% of the time and the rest 30%.

 

Most of the 70% people use like Facebook, Twitter, Facebook Messenger and Instagram (with their new app) are all there. It's the other % which aren't.

 

Tech savvy users will use more apps on a daily basis but people like my mom for example behave differently.

 

My mom probably uses 5 apps on a regular basis despite having more than 20 apps installed. The phone app (built in), messaging app (also built in), email client (also built in), the Ferry App (3rd party) and SuperCell's clone of Farmville (I can't remember the name) (3rd party).

Well being able to have access to more apps is nice. I mostly use Chrome and Youtube and sometimes apps I have installed. I however prefer the flow of Android, I also like the aesthetic. But of course that is rather subjective. But determining the value or importance or preference of something can be quite subjective. Honestly though, I mostly wasn't interesting in Windows Mobile besides the appearance but also the lack of Google apps. I know I could just switch over the Microsoft stuff. Though I really like the Google stuff, but I think the small user base of Windows Mobile users is probably why Chrome, Youtube, Drive, Play Music, Play Books, Play Movies and TV, etc. isn't on Windows Mobile.

[AlTech]

4 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Well being able to have access to more apps is nice. I mostly use Chrome and Youtube and sometimes apps I have installed. I however prefer the flow of Android, I also like the aesthetic. But of course that is rather subjective. But determining the value or importance or preference of something can be quite subjective. Honestly though, I mostly wasn't interesting in Windows Mobile besides the appearance but also the lack of Google apps. I know I could just switch over the Microsoft stuff. Though I really like the Google stuff, but I think the small user base of Windows Mobile users is probably why Chrome, Youtube, Drive, Play Music, Play Books, Play Movies and TV, etc. isn't on Windows Mobile.

No it's because Google reacted the way they did to Microsoft's attempt to please their customers.

 

They made a fully functional YouTube app and had all the Google APIs working just fine.

 

Until Google basically said to Microsoft "Fuck U' and demanded it be removed at once.

 

Microsoft, not wanting to be sued by Google, responded and removed the YouTube app.

 

There is still a youtube app but it's legit just a link to YouTube's mobile site. (you gotta remember YouTube is owned by Google).

 

 

AND there are plenty of alternatives. Personally I use a third party app called "TubeCast". I find it to be great and does exactly what I want.

 

 

And that's what happens with Windows Phones. The mentality is, if an app developer doesn't make an app for WP, some other developer in the community will try to make a third party app for it unless it's a game.

[handymanshandle]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

No it's because Google reacted the way they did to Microsoft's attempt to please their customers.

 

They made a fully functional YouTube app and had all the Google APIs working just fine.

 

Until Google basically said to Microsoft "Fuck U' and demanded it be removed at once.

 

Microsoft, not wanting to be sued by Google, responded and removed the YouTube app.

 

There is still a youtube app but it's legit just a link to YouTube's mobile site. (you gotta remember YouTube is owned by Google).

 

 

AND there are plenty of alternatives. Personally I use a third party app called "TubeCast". I find it to be great and does exactly what I want.

 

 

And that's what happens with Windows Phones. The mentality is, if an app developer doesn't make an app for WP, some other developer in the community will try to make a third party app for it unless it's a game.

Hmm, still like Android. So pretteh... (I have a Galaxy S6 on Verizon, with the Google Now Launcher, I even use the Google Keyboard)

 

[AlTech]

4 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Hmm, still like Android. So pretteh... (I have a Galaxy S6 on Verizon, with the Google Now Launcher, I even use the Google Keyboard)

 

Well to each their own.

I have a feeling you'd hate the layout of what you call a "home screen" lol.

 

All the terminology......

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, AluminiumTech said:

Well to each their own.

I have a feeling you'd hate the layout of what you call a "home screen" lol.

 

All the terminology......

Very true.

Home screen as in like the tile grid on Windows Mobile? To me a home screen is that first screen that you get when you press the home button. 

 

Like I could live with iOS because I can put stuff into folders, and I like doing that because I like my stuff being all over the place.

But I don't think that's a thing with Windows Mobile.

 

But like Windows 10 Mobile, actually isn't too bad. Just not sure I'd want it as a daily driver, because like I said the sort of standard Android look (Google Now) is really nice.

 

What is it you like about Windows Mobile anyways?

[handymanshandle]

6 minutes ago, wcreek said:

What is it you like about Windows Mobile anyways?

@AluminiumTech Also music on Windows Phone? How is that because like that might suck too. Or just third party apps for like Google Play Music and/or music streaming like Spotify and Pandora?