Are Mac computers really that bad?

[ALwin]

9 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

snip

Here's something you should read, it's certain to improve your knowledge.

 

http://www.uxpassion.com/blog/business-value-of-ux-design/

 

Quote

 

The importance of user experience and designing it correctly has been gaining more attention from the companies who aim to keep their users happy. In this article, we explain why investing into UX is crucial for your business. ...

 

Be it physical or digital, a product is bound to rouse both an emotional and intellectual response in its consumer based not only on the way it works but also how it looks and feels. Whether that experience is going to be a good one or a bad one is going to make an effect on your sales, and this is exactly where a good UX design team proves itself to be absolutely crucial.

 

 

[ALwin]

2 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Any person who has the amount of knowledge I have about the topic... Would choose Android over Apple any time. When I say my knowledge I do not mean opinions or biases, just knows as much as I do about what you can do and how to do it.

Not every tech savvy person cares about customization.  Some just want a device that works while they spend their time on what matters more to them, being productive.

 

The ability to add customization has no real advantage when there is another option that is designed to do something well and works.

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

Here's something you should read, it's certain to improve your knowledge.

 

http://www.uxpassion.com/blog/business-value-of-ux-design/

 

 

Okay, and my whole entire point to this was that what you are arguing is opinionated. I cannot debate with UI (User Interface). That is solely a person by person basis. One cannot say "Apple has a better UI then Android" but they can say "I like" Apples interface over Androids. Do you understand what I am trying to say. So you can either debate with me facts about Apple and Android, or you can continue to post your opinions on the topic. Because I can do the same and say "I like" Androids UI over Apples, but unlike you I won't state Androids UI "is better" then Apples. 

[ALwin]

8 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Snip

By this silly logic of yours I should be buying a smart watch instead of using my Swiss watch.  A smart watch would do many more things than my analog watch, but I find my analog watch to be more reliable and doesn't need to be recharged every day.

[ALwin]

2 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

snip

Don't confuse User Interface with User Experience.  User Experience deals with how the consumer feels about using a service they use or a product they purchase.

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/24/ios-7-shines-as-apple-bests-android-windows-phone-in-user-experience-shootout

 

User Experience is measured across a wide variety of criteria and user groups.  Not just people who are tech savvy.  For example, from my own personal experience and the experience of friends, we've found that an iPad actually makes older generation of people who are non-techie and were reluctant to use emails or watch videos on their computers actually start using emails, skype and youtube to communicate.  Because it was simple to use, they started using it more.

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

User Experience deals with how the consumer feels

What the hell, my whole damn point was that your argument is OPINIONATED. How a user "feels" about using a product is his/her personal opinion. Meaning that User Experience varies based on the person. One cannot claim that Apples user experience is better then Androids.

 

Its like debating with a tree with a rock as a brain with you.  

[ALwin]

3 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

snip

You really have no idea why User Experience is an important measurement, do you?

 

Quote

Its like debating with a tree with a rock as a brain with you. 

What, you're not brave enough to say it clearly that you need to hide this with a tiny font size?

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

You really have no idea why User Experience is an important measurement, do you?

Yes I do, apples article on it: https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/MobileHIG/

 

androids article: http://developer.android.com/design/get-started/principles.html

 

They both strive for user experience. You say measurement, so show me some facts about Apples user experience.

[YoFavRussian]

It's not really that they are bad systems.

It's the fact that they are only good for certain things such as film production.

They don't have a whole ton of support for games because that is not normally what they are used for.

They are also expensive for what they are, I can build a PC just as good for much less.

 

Like my father says about some things you're really only buying the name.

 

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

What, you're not brave enough to say it clearly that you need to hide this with a tiny font size?

It was supposed to reflect my mind set while talking to you. Like a sneak peak inside my mind. 

[ALwin]

Just now, Orangeator said:

snip

Go back and read my comments.  Your comments up to this point have shown little proof that you understand what User Experience is and why it's important.

http://designshack.net/articles/why-does-user-experience-matter/

Quote

 

Why It Matters

In terms of design, user experience is just as important as visual identity. Seriously. It doesn’t matter what your site or app looks like if people don’t know how to interact with it. And moreover, they need to enjoy that interaction.

 

While UX is important for any digital product, it is even more important for certain types of digital products: complex sites or applications, retail or online sales, start-up sites and businesses, small-budget projects and projects or sites that are expected to last a long time.

 

UX is key for complex sites because users must be able to easily navigate the site and understand how to use it. Neglecting UX can result in a sloppy site that people will not come back to. Developing an interaction-rich experience will drive users back to a site.

 

 

[ALwin]

Just now, Orangeator said:

It was supposed to reflect my mind set while talking to you. Like a sneak peak inside my mind. 

You mean the empty black hole?

[MEC-777]

1 hour ago, Trav_X said:

You assume too much. When someone says that something is reliable, they are not inferring that everything else isn't. Apple products are reliable, but that doesn't mean that every other product sucks in terms of reliability.

 

As well, everyone can choose for themselves. What you stated was basically the point of marketing. People will buy products that are 'new, look cool, or have stunning new features!' Marketing is the entire science of getting people to buy your products whether they necessarily "need" it or not. Apple has great marketing. For someone who isn't extremely technical and savvy, Apple's website even makes a true custom built enthusiast like me start to like some of apple's products more. Apple is good at marketing, and overall, an extremely profitable business because of it.

Forgive me for misunderstanding then. You claimed Apple products are reliable, then referred to Android as "crapdroid".

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

So you're faulting a business because they are successful at what they need to do to succeed in a consumer driven economy?  Have you ever looked at the cosmetics or fashion industry?

 

Its website is one of the case studies I had during my IT courses and is one of the examples used in the business of web design and user experience.

 

Here's an example:

I visit the Apple website to compare the specs and prices of a MacBook or Mac Pro I am thinking of buying.  Everything is clearly presented, even the prices of the custom configurations.

 

I go to the Dell or HP website... I have to click through several pages just to find the info I want.

 

Definitely no fault with Apple for being successful here or having the will to hire successful talent for this.  Companies exist to make a profit, if your business is not profiting because of bad marketing don't blame the competitor for having a good one.

No, not faulting them for their success. And yeah, that's why I said this type of thing happens with all kinds of products. 

 

It has to do with personal preference. I am very "function over fashion" minded. So when I look at the specs of a macbook, for example, vs an equivalently priced gaming notebook from another brand and see that I can get considerably "more bang for my buck" with the other brand, the macbook just seems like very poor value to me. Yeah it looks nice and it's well-constructed - but that only goes so far with me.  

 

Apple has good products, but they don't deliver on the hardware side, relative to the price, IMO. That is one of the main reasons I do not like them as a company. It is a business choice to charge a premium for your product when it's not necessarily warranted/justified. 

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

Do you really want to know why I prefer iPhone over Android or any other mobile system on the market?

 

Because iOS's user experience is fantastic.  It has nothing to do with hardware or branding.  When I broke my old Sony Errcsson phone years ago and decided I might want a "smart" phone, I went to the store and tried out every phone on demo there.  To this day, I still don't consider Android as providing the same level of user experience as iOS and I have helped out several of my friends and colleagues figure out how to do something on their Galaxy something devices.

 

Apple has even made their iWORK suite completely free.  Right off the bat, open a new MacBook, connect the power, turn it on, set up the user account and you can straight away start working on it.

 

With a custom built PC, I wonder how many people ever take into account the cost of the software?  With pre-built PCs, the time and effort require to remove the bloatware that is included?

See, this is where judgement of an OS becomes subjective. For the last page, you guys have been arguing about which is better for "user experience and ease of use" etc. but there actually is no objective answer to this. I've used my wife's ipod and I absolutely hate the interface/UI and IMO it is not as user friendly as android. The number of times she's had issues with syncing her music and other problems, I have lost count. To me and her, the user experience has not been good. Does that mean it's the same for everyone? Not at all. Plenty of other people obviously like the OS, know how to use it well and enjoy it. Those same people, by contrast, probably dislike Android etc. for some of the same reasons we dislike the Apple OS. 

 

The outcome of one's "user experience" is influenced heavily by what you're used to, how well you know it and personal preference. There is no objective "this is better than that" ultimately. We have the choice. Choose what ever you prefer. 

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/09/24/ios-7-shines-as-apple-bests-android-windows-phone-in-user-experience-shootout

Why, why, why, why would you use "APPLE INSIDER" as a source for information about Android vs Apple. What next, should I quote "ANDROID Authority" for my charts... That is ridiculous and biased. Never the less they were comparing Samsung's horrible interface to Apples. Actually post valid arguments. 

 

Edit: This article was also back when IOS 7 was just released... Seriously. How about some up to date information.

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

You mean the empty black hole?

Oh yes, says the genius who owns a crApple. 

 

Edit: Speaking of which, how is your iPhone 5s working for you with your photography? Want to compare pictures and video to my LG G4? A little Android vs iPhone. I wonder which one is better... My G4 shoots RAW, does yours? Didn't think, so how well is your user experience working for you right now? 

[ALwin]

11 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

The outcome of one's "user experience" is influenced heavily by what you're used to, how well you know it and personal preference. There is no objective "this is better than that" ultimately. We have the choice. Choose what ever you prefer. 

This is probably the most intelligent thing you've said so far, if not the only one.

 

Well for me the important thing about User Experience is seeing people (and when I mean people I mean the average person who is not tech savvy, which makes up a large percentage of the human population) use a device and enjoy it.

 

So yes, I think the UX of iOS on an iPhone or iPad is better than an Android when I see grandparents who were afraid to use skype on their computers using skype on an iPad.  Or when I see close to retirement age people I work with at my office struggling on Windows phone or Android but easily find themselves being able to use an iPhone without any hassle.  This for me is User Experience.

 

I'm educated in IT and worked for a number of years as a Software Engineer.  My aim with any program I create has always been to design it so that any person can pick up the software and use it immediately without having to go through a learning curve (more concisely a significant learning curve).

 

People who are tech savvy will adapt, but this type of people are only a small percentage of the population.  With future generations growing up with tech, this percentage will change. But I look at the now.

 

So while the article I linked may be dated, it still makes a point about how iOS can be more user friendly and provide a better UX to the average person.  Just because you're tech savvy doesn't mean other people are.  As I said, people have different priorities in their lives than just spending time figuring out how something works.  I don't deny that Android has improved over the years, but I still think iOS is still more friendly towards any non-tech savvy person. 

 

I used to enjoy spending time tinkering with software and hardware, figuring out how things worked and seeing what I could customize.  I used to love doing things on Windows like customizing all the icons, cursors, sounds, everything to fit a particular theme.  But those things were not "productive".

 

http://lifehacker.com/ios-vs-android-your-best-arguments-1334921103

http://bgr.com/2014/05/27/ios-vs-android-user-experience/

 

 

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

This is probably the most intelligent thing you've said so far, if not the only one.

 

Well for me the important thing about User Experience is seeing people (and when I mean people I mean the average person who is not tech savvy, which makes up a large percentage of the human population) use a device and enjoy it.

 

So yes, I think the UX of iOS on an iPhone or iPad is better than an Android when I see grandparents who were afraid to use skype on their computers using skype on an iPad.  Or when I see close to retirement age people I work with at my office struggling on Windows phone or Android but easily find themselves being able to use an iPhone without any hassle.  This for me is User Experience.

 

I'm educated in IT and worked for a number of years as a Software Engineer.  My aim with any program I create has always been to design it so that any person can pick up the software and use it immediately without having to go through a learning curve (more concisely a significant learning curve).

 

People who are tech savvy will adapt, but this type of people are only a small percentage of the population.  With future generations growing up with tech, this percentage will change. But I look at the now.

 

So while the article I linked may be dated, it still makes a point about how iOS can be more user friendly and provide a better UX to the average person.  Just because you're tech savvy doesn't mean other people are.  As I said, people have different priorities in their lives than just spending time figuring out how something works.  I don't deny that Android has improved over the years, but I still think iOS is still more friendly towards any non-tech savvy person. 

 

I used to enjoy spending time tinkering with software and hardware, figuring out how things worked and seeing what I could customize.  I used to love doing things on Windows like customizing all the icons, cursors, sounds, everything to fit a particular theme.  But those things were not "productive".

 

http://lifehacker.com/ios-vs-android-your-best-arguments-1334921103

http://bgr.com/2014/05/27/ios-vs-android-user-experience/

 

 

Well, I guess that is pretty much a good summary and I have nothing against what you said. I agree 100%, however except at the very bottom... Spending a few minutes to make something personal is not a waste of time if it is to make your work flow more efficient. Like spending the time to customize a scheduler with colors... etc (for real life example)

[Sauron]

35 minutes ago, ALwin said:

You really have no idea why User Experience is an important measurement, do you?

At the same time it's near impossible to accurately measure. There's too much subjectivity involved.

 

Take me for example; I never had any problems navigating an android device. Not even when I first laid my hands on one. I may arguably have a more trained eye for using different GUIs than the average user, but frankly I do not consider iOS to be particularly better in this sense.

 

A stock or close-to-stock android phone will have, right on the home screen after purchase, both an app menu button and a shortcut to the play store, plus a drop-down menu that includes all basic settings. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

I'd also argue that having dedicated buttons for home, back and multitasking is more intuitive than gestures and multiple button presses, but as most things in this area, it's subjective.

 

People who have serious problems navigating an android phone will have just as many problems navigating an iphone. The rest is down to small feature differences.

[ALwin]

5 minutes ago, Sauron said:

snip

User Experience is not about what your experiences are (though it sort of is) but I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of someone designing something for the consumer.

 

And it's something I have to deal with when I consult for the UN in my capacity as an IT specialist.  When I look at the design of their websites, the databases, the information services they offer...

 

You have no idea the number of arguments I have to make to these people when they ask me to look at the design of their website for them.  They know how their agencies, organizations, departments, etc. are structured because they are a part of it.  But a website is supposed to provide information to the audience who are NOT a part.  My clients have a hard time understanding that before they talk to me.

 

Tech savvy people are good at figuring out how some technology works. Put a device in the hands of someone who is reluctant to use that technology and see how they respond.

[ALwin]

16 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Well, I guess that is pretty much a good summary and I have nothing against what you said. I agree 100%, however except at the very bottom... Spending a few minutes to make something personal is not a waste of time if it is to make your work flow more efficient. Like spending the time to customize a scheduler with colors... etc (for real life example)

Well the calendar in iOS comes with some basic color coding already preset and I can add a few more.  But I only need two colors, because my calendar is organized into two types of events, "Work" and "Personal".

[Sauron]

22 minutes ago, ALwin said:

User Experience is not about what your experiences are (though it sort of is) but I'm looking at it from the viewpoint of someone designing something for the consumer.

 

And it's something I have to deal with when I consult for the UN in my capacity as an IT specialist.  When I look at the design of their websites, the databases, the information services they offer...

 

You have no idea the number of arguments I have to make to these people when they ask me to look at the design of their website for them.  They know how their agencies, organizations, departments, etc. are structured because they are a part of it.  But a website is supposed to provide information to the audience who are NOT a part.  My clients have a hard time understanding that before they talk to me.

 

Tech savvy people are good at figuring out how some technology works. Put a device in the hands of someone who is reluctant to use that technology and see how they respond.

I understand what you're saying, but my point is that android's design (as long as we don't get too far from stock) is not inherently worse. It's not like it's presenting users with TWM. It's just a different usage paradigm, but not particularly harder to learn. I know plenty of non tech savvy people who have no issues using their android phone.

[MacAlisterL]

On 3/1/2016 at 10:08 PM, Trav_X said:

People dog them so much, but what do you guys really think?

 

Personally OSX, especially Capitan and the newer versions, are a pleasure to use, although I still love the Windows 10 experience and the like. The only drawback in my opinion is lack of support on certain programs from the Internet, stuff like Dolphin Emulator, many certain Steam games, and those kinda things (not even sure if Dolphin is supported, just using as an example). 

 

I think the aesthetics are great. If the newest MacBook actually had some vents, I would consider getting it and BootCamping it and using as a daily driver (however my mileage may vary ). But the design just has drawbacks, and I don't like spending a crap ton on adapters. 

 

What do you guys honestly think about Mac computers (excluding the Mac Pro). I know this has probably been a thread before, but what actually do you guys think?

I'm sorry you found the wrong forum.

[Trav_X]

3 hours ago, Sauron said:

I understand what you're saying, but my point is that android's design (as long as we don't get too far from stock) is not inherently worse. It's not like it's presenting users with TWM. It's just a different usage paradigm, but not particularly harder to learn. I know plenty of non tech savvy people who have no issues using their android phone.

I agree with what you are saying completely. UI can be picked up by anyone, if given time. They are all different, and people can find them easier or harder to use, but there is non that is inherently 'better' or 'worse' than one another  

[79wjd]

10 hours ago, YoFavRussian said:

It's not really that they are bad systems.

It's the fact that they are only good for certain things such as film production.

They don't have a whole ton of support for games because that is not normally what they are used for.

They are also expensive for what they are, I can build a PC just as good for much less.

 

Like my father says about some things you're really only buying the name.

 

OS X is bad for gaming and for very obscure tasks where the applications aren't supported. The former affects a sizable (but still small) chunk of the market while the latter affects relatively few people. With those two exceptions, OS X literally supports everything that the vast majority of users would ever need. 

 

So you're comparing a pre built laptop/AIO/NUC to a custom built desktop....do you really not see a problem with that comparison? Why don't you try a fair comparison....against a comparable Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc... ultrabook/AIO/NUC. Apple's prices really aren't that far off in comparison (usually within 10% when looking at comparable base configs). 

[Dabombinable]

12 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

OS X is bad for gaming and for very obscure tasks where the applications aren't supported. The former affects a sizable (but still small) chunk of the market while the latter affects relatively few people. With those two exceptions, OS X literally supports everything that the vast majority of users would ever need. 

 

So you're comparing a pre built laptop/AIO/NUC to a custom built desktop....do you really not see a problem with that comparison? Why don't you try a fair comparison....against a comparable Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc... ultrabook/AIO/NUC. Apple's prices really aren't that far off in comparison (usually within 10% when looking at comparable base configs). 

Look at the cost between 8GB RAM and the 16GB upgrade, then the upgrade cost of the flash storage drives.