Are Mac computers really that bad?

[79wjd]

32 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Look at the cost between 8GB RAM and the 16GB upgrade, then the upgrade cost of the flash storage drives.

Yes, the upgrade costs are more than they should be. Which is why I was clear to say base configs. 

[Gazereths]

On 3/13/2016 at 3:55 PM, IBroTech said:

My two biggest issues with pretty much every macintosh is the often mentioned price to performance ratios as well as the lack of continual support for their earlier versions of OSX. My last experience with mac was when OSX el capitan first came out. Just build a pc and don't download a mountain of porn. You will save yourself alot of time, stress and hair.

 

Edit: also money, you'll save alot of that.

Oh I'll build a PC, but no mountain of porn? Now that is something I cannot and will not abide!

 

I have to shamefully admit one of the reasons I always get iPhones when my phone contract is due for upgrade is because they hold their price so well. I think I could still get £350 for my 64GB iPhone 6. On the other end of the scale I got a HTC Desire 816  for £40 the other day and it's a great smartphone, especially at that price.

 

 

[Trav_X]

15 hours ago, Gazereths said:

Oh I'll build a PC, but no mountain of porn? Now that is something I cannot and will not abide!

 

I have to shamefully admit one of the reasons I always get iPhones when my phone contract is due for upgrade is because they hold their price so well. I think I could still get £350 for my 64GB iPhone 6. On the other end of the scale I got a HTC Desire 816  for £40 the other day and it's a great smartphone, especially at that price.

 

 

Agreed, I had an iPhone 4 up until late last year, got a new 6, and those things still sell great  

[Trav_X]

On March 14, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Sauron said:

At the same time it's near impossible to accurately measure. There's too much subjectivity involved.

 

Take me for example; I never had any problems navigating an android device. Not even when I first laid my hands on one. I may arguably have a more trained eye for using different GUIs than the average user, but frankly I do not consider iOS to be particularly better in this sense.

 

A stock or close-to-stock android phone will have, right on the home screen after purchase, both an app menu button and a shortcut to the play store, plus a drop-down menu that includes all basic settings. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

I'd also argue that having dedicated buttons for home, back and multitasking is more intuitive than gestures and multiple button presses, but as most things in this area, it's subjective.

 

People who have serious problems navigating an android phone will have just as many problems navigating an iphone. The rest is down to small feature differences.

Agreed very good logic. I feel like many people can even be ever so biased when it comes to company vs company, and its good to see neutral viewpoints. Good points too  i credit you for your intelligence

[Dyelon21]

27 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

Agreed very good logic. I feel like many people can even be ever so biased when it comes to company vs company, and its good to see neutral viewpoints. Good points too  i credit you for your intelligence

One thing I will say, whether you like apple devices or not, is I detest Apple's philosophy on their products. This ideology of "You don't know what you need, we know what you need. Now pay a premium for what you need." This just rattles me to my core I had an iPhone 4 and while there were things I really didn't like about it (unable to download 3rd party apps, loved the screen size but didn't care for the boxy design) I still say it was a good phone and awesome for one-handed use. I guess my overall complaint is with Apple rather than their products, I just can't stand for something like treating your users like morons and charging them when they call you.

 

http://www.apple.com/support/products/pay-per-incident.html (just for verification that representatives are supposed to charge you to help you.)

[Bhav]

4 hours ago, Dyelon21 said:

One thing I will say, whether you like apple devices or not, is I detest Apple's philosophy on their products. This ideology of "You don't know what you need, we know what you need. Now pay a premium for what you need." This just rattles me to my core I had an iPhone 4 and while there were things I really didn't like about it (unable to download 3rd party apps, loved the screen size but didn't care for the boxy design) I still say it was a good phone and awesome for one-handed use. I guess my overall complaint is with Apple rather than their products, I just can't stand for something like treating your users like morons and charging them when they call you.

 

http://www.apple.com/support/products/pay-per-incident.html (just for verification that representatives are supposed to charge you to help you.)

Apple do know what the average yokel needs.

 

And they know what workstation users need.

 

They don't cater to tinkerers / enthusiasts. This isn't new information.

[Dyelon21]

1 minute ago, Bhav said:

Apple do know what the average yokel needs.

 

And they know what workstation users need.

 

They don't cater to tinkerers / enthusiasts. This isn't new information.

Average Yokel - Yes.

 

Workstation users - No.

 

Content creators - Yes.

[Bhav]

Well, I tend to think content creation is the same thing as workstation? Macs are the industry standards for music and movie creation / editing.

[Bhav]

3 minutes ago, Dyelon21 said:

Average Yokel - Yes.

 

Workstation users - No.

 

Content creators - Yes.

Forgot to quote for notif.

[Dyelon21]

1 hour ago, Bhav said:

Well, I tend to think content creation is the same thing as workstation? Macs are the industry standards for music and movie creation / editing.

I consider workstation a broader term. Workstations do enable content creation, but I think workstation to include programming and compiling, virtualization, database maintenance, 3D rendering, etc. I guess I should have explained that in my original comment, my apologies.

[Gazereths]

Here's an interesting video comparing the price to performance of a Mac Pro to a custom system.....I know I know it's custom built but the conclusions are pretty much that you can out perform the Mac Pro for half the price....If you know how to put PC components together (which surely most people could do if they really wanted to it's not rocket science)

 

I don't totally agree with the testing methodology or all the conclusions, but it's not too far off from the truth. 

 

 

But good old Bryan over at TechYesCity creams these with even less money, dual Xeons, 16 cores/32 threads for around $1000...Over 2000 points in cinebench.

 

[ItsAz]

Personally I love Macs. They are beautiful machines that are glorious to look at and they have a beautiful OS. The only gripe I have with them is the price. Tek Syndicate has a very good video of where they upgrade an old dual CPU Mac Pro, in which they explain the massive rip off that is apple upgrades and how you can upgrade it for much cheaper. Unfortunately you cannot upgrade the new Mac laptops like you could the new ones and I have no idea about the mac pros. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuW3HuzYWsw

[Zethlon]

People that make the argument that Mac Pro and other Apple computers are better for content creation are kinda wrong, atleast if we talk performance, they User interface is another ballgame. I recently saw a video were a guy showed of his new build with a GTX 980 ti with the hybrid cooler, and a 5820k. which he had paid around 2200 dollars for. he compared it to the top of the line mac pro you can buy, which is using 3 year old hardware, and cost 4000 dollars!! Content creation, the pc Destroyed the mac pro in any test he threw at it. Cinebench, more than double the score. Rendertime from adobe premier. 18 minutes on the pc, i believe around 50 for mac. and for the graphical test he did, the pc had TRIPLE the perfomance. and this is for little under HALF the price of the mac pro.
and thermals. the mac pro single fan when running graphical test was so obnoxious. and the graphics cards, note the dual cards, in the mac was at 100 % stress all the time. and got rekt by the 980 ti that didnt even hit 40%.

So for me, buying a mac pro, or and mac for that matter, is just not worth it, unless you have stupid amount of money and dont care about what you use them for. or believe that OSX is better for content creation.  then go right ahead.
For all the other reasonable people, dont buy Mac, Please.

[RBPE-Joe]

Coming from a video editors standpoint, I can the appeal of a mac for certain types of people. If you don't take into account the price for performance (because it is ridiculous), in a video/effects workflow a mac can perform to an acceptable standard (granted you're working in final cut or Premiere). Personally I would never spend money on a mac as the price and software limitations outweigh the "aesthetic" and so called "ease of use". Who knows maybe If I won the lottery I would implement a mac into my life; but I can confirm even if this happened it would not be part of any gaming or serious video editing projects as the performance simply isn't there.

[cooky560]

Sensibly priced there would be nothing wrong with a mac, however as it stands it's like paying Mercedes money for a car that performs like a Ford

[79wjd]

6 hours ago, Gazereths said:

Here's an interesting video comparing the price to performance of a Mac Pro to a custom system.....I know I know it's custom built but the conclusions are pretty much that you can out perform the Mac Pro for half the price....If you know how to put PC components together (which surely most people could do if they really wanted to it's not rocket science)

 

I don't totally agree with the testing methodology or all the conclusions, but it's not too far off from the truth. 

 

 

But good old Bryan over at TechYesCity creams these with even less money, dual Xeons, 16 cores/32 threads for around $1000...Over 2000 points in cinebench.

 

While building a computer is easy, you have to realize the vast majority of consumers do NOT build their own computers, nor do they have any desire to, and virtually no companies will build their own systems because it's easier/cheaper in the long run to buy prebuilt systems and let the manufacturers deal with repairs. (IBM switched a bunch of their computers to OS X because it meant they didn't need nearly as many IT support members).

 

 

53 minutes ago, cooky560 said:

Sensibly priced there would be nothing wrong with a mac, however as it stands it's like paying Mercedes money for a car that performs like a Ford

Except the pricing with the competition is very similar as has been shown time and time again.

[Bhav]

4 hours ago, Zethlon said:

People that make the argument that Mac Pro and other Apple computers are better for content creation are kinda wrong, atleast if we talk performance, they User interface is another ballgame. I recently saw a video were a guy showed of his new build with a GTX 980 ti with the hybrid cooler, and a 5820k. which he had paid around 2200 dollars for. he compared it to the top of the line mac pro you can buy, which is using 3 year old hardware, and cost 4000 dollars!! Content creation, the pc Destroyed the mac pro in any test he threw at it. Cinebench, more than double the score. Rendertime from adobe premier. 18 minutes on the pc, i believe around 50 for mac. and for the graphical test he did, the pc had TRIPLE the perfomance. and this is for little under HALF the price of the mac pro.
and thermals. the mac pro single fan when running graphical test was so obnoxious. and the graphics cards, note the dual cards, in the mac was at 100 % stress all the time. and got rekt by the 980 ti that didnt even hit 40%.

So for me, buying a mac pro, or and mac for that matter, is just not worth it, unless you have stupid amount of money and dont care about what you use them for. or believe that OSX is better for content creation.  then go right ahead.
For all the other reasonable people, dont buy Mac, Please.

Except you're not going to manually build and sort out any warranty support on an individual component basis when you need hundreds of computers up and running all the time in a studio.

 

[Trav_X]

7 hours ago, Gazereths said:

Here's an interesting video comparing the price to performance of a Mac Pro to a custom system.....I know I know it's custom built but the conclusions are pretty much that you can out perform the Mac Pro for half the price....If you know how to put PC components together (which surely most people could do if they really wanted to it's not rocket science)

 

I don't totally agree with the testing methodology or all the conclusions, but it's not too far off from the truth. 

 

 

But good old Bryan over at TechYesCity creams these with even less money, dual Xeons, 16 cores/32 threads for around $1000...Over 2000 points in cinebench.

 

Ive seen those videos before, those are good videos. I still believe that even tho putting a PC together aint hard, and its not too hard to learn, or you could just ask some capable person to do it, Mac workstation users still argue that it comes with their native OS, looks sleek, and is not that big of a price premium when buying a product for your actual Job use, and even can be payed on behalf of your employer depending on your actual occupation. Some people will just always buy Macs  they're a lost cause

[mikat]

On 10-3-2016 at 9:37 PM, Xerora said:

@djdwosk97 working haswell chips were unveiled in 2011 and later released to public in 2013, following a refresh in 2014. Mathematic wise; 2016 - 2011 = 5. so 5 year old hardware, mate.

http://ark.intel.com/products/family/75023/4th-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Processors#@Mobile

2013 or 2014

doesn't really matter when they were unveiled, it only matters when they were available

[Bhav]

Also apple sell specialized macs exactly for recording or movie creation studio use. They come with all the necessary hardware and software bundles together, so studios can buy however many they need all with exactly what they need.

 

This isn't a service which is provided by PC companies, it takes vastly more effort to set up a full commercial studio with PCs. Even if it might be cheaper, it is far too inconvenient.

 

Yes you can setup an individual home PC with equivalent, even better hardware and software for content creation, but that's an entirely different thing to a full Hollywood / film and TV / music industry studio.

 

Also the same for university studios in the relevant film or music courses. There not going to manually build every computer, they're going to buy per built specialized macs that they can set up and get running with as little effort as possible. And if something goes wrong, they don't have the time to diagnose which component is the issue, they need to be able to send the whole thing back, or get on site technical repair service.

[Trav_X]

24 minutes ago, mikat said:

http://ark.intel.com/products/family/75023/4th-Generation-Intel-Core-i7-Processors#@Mobile

2013 or 2014

doesn't really matter when they were unveiled, it only matters when they were available

^This. If we judged time based on reveal dates, then there are a ton of unreleased products that are quite old  

[Automobili3XF]

I never had a proper Apple product, but years ago i had setup a Hackintosh, the system was good, but i still prefer Debian and Windows...

[Dionyz]

On 3/11/2016 at 1:04 PM, Dionyz said:

I did not read the thread. But from experience look at the apple store, and look at the updates. (El captain) You will see a bunch of one stars.

 

Anyways getting to bootcamp, and playing an windows game (vindictus) my Macbook air 2015 reaches 95 Celsius.

Wow everyone brushed over my comment... Here I will bold it for you

[KWelz]

Your point?    Ultrabooks are not made for gaming.  They don't have the cooling capacity to handle that kind of strain on a processor 

[PhilMoreJenkinz]

they are good for editing work, or any sort of media work. Not games

 

The only reason us windows folk crap all over macs is cuz they dont do games well, while they are media work gods, they dont do the games.

They also arn't that upgradable

Over priced

insanly hard to hack, or crack

And you cant really do much sofware tweaks with them

Although you can put windows on them through a booter, it;s still hard to change any sort of files, how they work, yada yada yada, stuff like that. 

 

Not touch screen, something Apple NEEDS to implement into their pcs, since they're so good at media work.

 

Not really customizable, you can't even change the color of your window outlines or ANYTHING, its all just WHITE, a color that gets boring, after a long time.

 

Hardware support is ok, not the greatest

 

But yeah, they need to offer more upgradability, not just RAM Apple, things like hard drives and GPUs Too.

 

 

Thjats why they so bad

 

But their software protection is FLAWLESS

the only thing thats really good about apple things is their Encription, that really it