Are Mac computers really that bad?

[79wjd]

40 minutes ago, OrionG said:

yes they are 1200 bucks for a duel core and integrated graphics

Iris is quite a bit better than standard integrated graphics. 

[NickTheMajin]

On 3/3/2016 at 4:09 AM, NickTheMajin said:

 

This shit I don't get. They're aren't proprietary. Every port on a macbook can be found on Windows machines. I'm looking at my Macbook Pro right now and there is not a single port on it that's proprietary. 

 

And a high resolution screen, PCI E SSDs, 10 hour battery life and a slim thin form factor. 

 

News flash. Not everyone games and wants a dedicated GPU eating up battery life. 

[daniielrp]

I have to say I really regret getting rid of my iMac as daily machine for general use. Here's my thoughts:

 

• Updates. I abhor the way Windows 10 treats updates. Frankly I hate it whenever any device takes decisions like this away from the user, but with W10 I must shout at it multiple times per week when all I want to do is shut down, but NO, my PC wants to install a bunch of updates I didn't ask it to do despite me changing the setting for it. 
• Update frequency. I have to update OS X about 4 times in a year. I update W10 on my rig at least once every other week I reckon. 
• Short term stability. This was really useful with the Mac - I NEVER had to switch it off. It was always in standby mode just a mouse click away from being instantly on. This means everyone in the house good very quickly get any work done. With Windows I have to shut it down every few days otherwise it just seems to get bloated up and slower.
• Long term stability. W10 is better, but Windows overall still seems to bloat and die over time. My work machine feels like it's moments from death.
• Power use. Apple (due to the software/hardware control) machines are really good when it comes to power consumption and eco-friendliness. 
• No fear of viruses or adware. I myself am fine with this, but other not as techie people in the house could very easily visit download.com and cripple the system. Yes that could maybe happen with the Mac, but it's ridiculously less likely. 
• I didn't keep spending money to upgrade to cool new parts. Because I physically couldn't (though I did manage to swap the HDD for an SSD!)

So there you have it - why I believe the Mac was better for a daily, general use machine. Now when it comes to gaming hahahahaaha!!! No the Mac cannot even touch Windows for games. I tried once and batman crashed every couple of minutes so I just never tried again. Also, I do like tinkering and fixing, and as cliche as it sounds the Mac did just work so I never got to do that...

[79wjd]

@daniielrp it's funny you mention updates. Until recently I was never able to explain why I prefered using OS X over Windows; I've preferred it since I got my first Mac eight years ago, but I never knew why. And then yesterday I realized something, I've never once had my Mac restart from an update or go to sleep in the middle of something -- something that's always been a pain with Windows (yes, I could have disabled windows updates, but that still doesn't solve the sleep issue). 

 

In Microsoft's defense, Windows 10 is still very new, so it's expected to get very frequeunt updates, plus it gets FAR more use than OS X does, so again, more exploits/bugs are found. 

 

That shouldn't happen with Windows either; I've gone months without restarting my desktop (although, I'm pretty sure I've also gone over a year without restarting my Mac).

 

In terms of long-term stability, I've noticed some issues with my Mac where Chrome will grind to a halt periodically when loading a web page -- I don't use any other browsers, so I don't know if that's a Chrome issue or an issue with OS X, but I generally try to reinstall OS X every two-three years (about the same frequency as Windows), but I also don't really run into long term issues on either platform (but I also clear out bloat on both frequently...so, there's that). 

 

It's not like a Windows laptop is exactly bad at power consumption -- the two are probably basically the same (although I've never tested it, so maybe there's something there.... OS X certainly is lighter than Windows). 

 

Virus's/Malware aren't that much less likely on OS X then Windows, sure it's a bit more likely since most viruses/malware is designed to run on Windows, but it's still very easy to get a virus. 

 

I don't think that's really a plus..... (and it's also true with most laptops/AIOs as well). 

[daniielrp]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

@daniielrp it's funny you mention updates. Until recently I was never able to explain why I prefered using OS X over Windows; I've preferred it since I got my first Mac eight years ago, but I never knew why. And then yesterday I realized something, I've never once had my Mac restart from an update or go to sleep in the middle of something -- something that's always been a pain with Windows (yes, I could have disabled windows updates, but that still doesn't solve the sleep issue). 

 

In Microsoft's defense, Windows 10 is still very new, so it's expected to get very frequeunt updates, plus it gets FAR more use than OS X does, so again, more exploits/bugs are found. 

 

That shouldn't happen with Windows either; I've gone months without restarting my desktop (although, I'm pretty sure I've also gone over a year without restarting my Mac).

 

In terms of long-term stability, I've noticed some issues with my Mac where Chrome will grind to a halt periodically when loading a web page -- I don't use any other browsers, so I don't know if that's a Chrome issue or an issue with OS X, but I generally try to reinstall OS X every two-three years (about the same frequency as Windows), but I also don't really run into long term issues on either platform (but I also clear out bloat on both frequently...so, there's that). 

 

It's not like a Windows laptop is exactly bad at power consumption -- the two are probably basically the same (although I've never tested it, so maybe there's something there.... OS X certainly is lighter than Windows). 

 

Virus's/Malware aren't that much less likely on OS X then Windows, sure it's a bit more likely since most viruses/malware is designed to run on Windows, but it's still very easy to get a virus. 

 

I don't think that's really a plus..... (and it's also true with most laptops/AIOs as well). 

Yeh I went rogue.. errr Mac about 7 years ago and appreciate their update cycle much more. 

Yes Windows 10 is new, but OS X has been 'upgraded' once a year for the past... 4 years I think and still doesn't update as frequently as W10. 

I clear out bloat - I just wish everything else did! On the Mac, as most applications are packaged in one 'app' it's much easier to remove any leftover crap. With Windows it just seems so much more work. E.G I just saw yesterday that I still had some AMD dlls being loaded from system32 even though I've had an nvidia card for about a month and uninstalled the AMD software as soon as I upgraded! No idea what those files were doing there or why they were still being loaded - I only by accident noticed when checking task manager for something so they could have been there for a lot longer! 

I mainly mention it because Apple make a big point about it with their machines, whereas other companies tend to look at the larger scale costs. 

Well I was thinking more about desktops but yeh laptops I guess you're in the same boat with upgrades in most cases. 

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, daniielrp said:

Yeh I went rogue.. errr Mac about 7 years ago and appreciate their update cycle much more. 

Yes Windows 10 is new, but OS X has been 'upgraded' once a year for the past... 4 years I think and still doesn't update as frequently as W10. 

I clear out bloat - I just wish everything else did! On the Mac, as most applications are packaged in one 'app' it's much easier to remove any leftover crap. With Windows it just seems so much more work. E.G I just saw yesterday that I still had some AMD dlls being loaded from system32 even though I've had an nvidia card for about a month and uninstalled the AMD software as soon as I upgraded! No idea what those files were doing there or why they were still being loaded - I only by accident noticed when checking task manager for something so they could have been there for a lot longer! 

I mainly mention it because Apple make a big point about it with their machines, whereas other companies tend to look at the larger scale costs. 

Well I was thinking more about desktops but yeh laptops I guess you're in the same boat with upgrades in most cases. 

The yearly updates don't change much -- not like W10 was changed over W8.1. 

 

Uninstalling drivers has always been problematic in Windows -- there's a reason why DDU exists. 

[Trav_X]

36 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The yearly updates don't change much -- not like W10 was changed over W8.1. 

 

Uninstalling drivers has always been problematic in Windows -- there's a reason why DDU exists. 

The yearly Mac updates don't change much true  but it is nice to have them sometimes, the stuff they do add is usually useful/helpful, it's nice sometimes for a small refresh  

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

The yearly Mac updates don't change much true  but it is nice to have them sometimes, the stuff they do add is usually useful/helpful, it's nice sometimes for a small refresh  

Eh, I haven't really noticed anything added that I cared about....the one thing I want them to add they won't add (quadrant snapping).

[Trav_X]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Eh, I haven't really noticed anything added that I cared about....the one thing I want them to add they won't add (quadrant snapping).

Oh man that would actually be a really nice feature  

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

Oh man that would actually be a really nice feature  

I think of it less of a feature and more of a mandatory thing these days....anyway, luckily for me better touch tool exists. 

[Dyelon21]

6 hours ago, NickTheMajin said:

 

And a high resolution screen, PCI E SSDs, 10 hour battery life and a slim thin form factor. 

 

News flash. Not everyone games and wants a dedicated GPU eating up battery life. 

News flash. Some people want an interchangeable battery, upgradable ram, an OS that actually lets you edit it to how you want it, upgradable storage, and not have to pay $29 to call apple support when you need to do a warranty.

[KWelz]

Since when does it cost to call apple.  

[Dyelon21]

12 minutes ago, KWelz said:

Since when does it cost to call apple.  

I don't know how long, but ever since I started working at AT&T it does (about a year and a half now)

 

http://www.apple.com/support/products/pay-per-incident.html

[79wjd]

21 minutes ago, Dyelon21 said:

News flash. Some people want an interchangeable battery, upgradable ram, an OS that actually lets you edit it to how you want it, upgradable storage, and not have to pay $29 to call apple support when you need to do a warranty.

And those people wouldn't be considering ANY ultrabook. And what exactly is it that you want to "edit" that you can't on OS X but can on Windows? 

19 minutes ago, KWelz said:

Since when does it cost to call apple.  

It doesn't. 

[Dyelon21]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It doesn't. 

Did you not see the link I posted?

 

http://www.apple.com/support/products/pay-per-incident.html

 

Also, I didn't say windows. I was referring to Linux which is another Unix based os like OSX.

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, Dyelon21 said:

Did you not see the link I posted?

 

http://www.apple.com/support/products/pay-per-incident.html

Tell that to every technician I've spoken with on the phone or in person at the Apple store over the last eight years. Hell, I was having an issue with my dad's iPhone 4s the other day and got free support on five year old device. Apple isn't exactly strict with their support policies -- case being, I've had my Mac's charger replaced for free about half a dozen times (because the charger is poorly designed) in the last eight years and never once had to pay (and it was only covered under warranty once). 

[TDP_Equinox]

7 hours ago, Xerora said:

ased to public in 2013, following a refresh in 2014. Mathematic wise; 2016 - 2011 = 5. so 5 year old hardware, mate.

That isn't how it works. 

[Dyelon21]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Tell that to every technician I've spoken with on the phone or in person at the Apple store over the last eight years. Hell, I was having an issue with my dad's iPhone 4s the other day and got free support on five year old device. Apple isn't exactly strict with their support policies -- case being, I've had my Mac's charger replaced about half a dozen times in the last eight years and never once had to pay (and it was only covered under warranty once). 

I've had them try to charge my customers, they do charge you. Just because you've gotten lucky doesn't mean they don't do it. Honestly most of the time the first thing they says is to give them a credit card number and won't answer anything without it.

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, Dyelon21 said:

I've had them try to charge my customers, they do charge you. Just because you've gotten lucky doesn't mean they don't do it. Honestly most of the time the first thing they says is to give them a credit card number and won't answer anything without it.

I can't say I've ever had that experience, nor have I known anyone who's had a similar experience in the past eight years. 

[Dyelon21]

32 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I can't say I've ever had that experience, nor have I known anyone who's had a similar experience in the past eight years. 

I talk to apple at least 3-4 times a day, since iphones are about 70% of our call volume even while being only about 13% of the marketshare (don't quote me on this part because i'm not completely ceratain, but I know it's close) Most reps just ignore policy, but after speaking to some of them at length about stuff like this they can get written up or fired for not charging. It honestly just depends on the rep and they've gotten stricter as of the last year or 2 (this according to apple reps).

[KWelz]

That is for out of warranty support.   Every company charges for our of warranty support.  

[mbryant]

21 hours ago, Abyssal Radon said:

I have used a Mac for programming and for 3D Modeling and well... let's be honest. The programming part wasn't so bad, but 3D Modeling was a pain in the ass. Since I'm not used to OSX's hot keys and lack of Windows Start key makes it confusing for me. Macs build quality is very nice, but for the price Mac's aren't worth it. Hell, my parents bought Mac's and they aren't too keen with the compatibility with Windows when it comes to file formats and sometimes the occasional font issues. Yet I've told them they could buy a Windows 10 license and load Windows on to a Mac via Bootcamp. Since I do a lot of video editing and gaming, Mac's are terrible for me. But for the casual user and business user a Mac is much better. As always I will stick with Windows 10 and use my desktop for heavy compute tasks. If the Mac Pro wasn't so damn expensive, that would be the one and only Mac I would buy, however I can build a PC that would beat a Mac Pros specs and be able to do what a Mac Pro can do, except it would be a Windows machine. I have a few friends that loves their Mac Book Pros which is good that their is a fan base for Apple that drives their sales. But for my personal needs, a Mac can't swing it and I think Mac's are just over priced computers that has hardware that's under powered. 

To argue, I feel that Mac's are very well built and their durability ALMOST makes up for the price tag but even still I feel that the starting price for a MacBook should be $700 - $800. I've also gotten excellent tech support through Apple. To top it all off their OS's are now FREE and have been for some time. Sure the upgrade from windows 7 and 8 to 10 was free but if you are building a new system and don't have a copy already you have to go buy the OS, but this argument is almost pointless considering that you can only install OSX on Mac's OR a hackintosh. 

[Trav_X]

9 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Tell that to every technician I've spoken with on the phone or in person at the Apple store over the last eight years. Hell, I was having an issue with my dad's iPhone 4s the other day and got free support on five year old device. Apple isn't exactly strict with their support policies -- case being, I've had my Mac's charger replaced for free about half a dozen times (because the charger is poorly designed) in the last eight years and never once had to pay (and it was only covered under warranty once). 

^this. I have also never had to pay for support in any way  

[79wjd]

22 minutes ago, mbryant said:

To argue, I feel that Mac's are very well built and their durability ALMOST makes up for the price tag but even still I feel that the starting price for a MacBook should be $700 - $800.

Even it's competition isn't that cheap. 

 

Take a Dell XPS 13 for example: 

• $1000 base
• i5-6200u
• HD 520
• 8GB DDR3
• 128gb PCIE SSD (+100 for 256gb)
• 1080p display (+300 for 3200x1800 touch)

13" rMBP:

• $1300 base
• i5-5257u 
• Iris 6100 
• 8GB DDR3
• 128gb PCIE SSD (+200 for 256gb) 
• 2560x1600 display 

Configure the Dell with the higher resolution display and it's the same price as the Mac while having a marginally faster cpu, better efficiency, and a touch screen. Compared to the Mac, which has a much better GPU. So at that point it comes down to what you personally care about -- would you rather have more GPU power or a touch screen (and that's something that comes down solely to the individual). And yes, the Dell would be $100 cheaper once configured with a 256gb SSD (but a $100 premium isn't that much if you want OS X). 

 

 

 

Looking at the XPS 15: 

• $1450 
• i7-6700HQ
• GTX 960m / HD 530
• 8GB DDR4 (16GB kit sold separately -- so.... +$50?)
• 256GB PCIE SSD
• 1920x1080 Display

XPS 15 w/ high res display: 

• $1780
• i7-6700HQ
• GTX960m / HD 530 
• 16GB DDR4
• 512GB PCIE SSD
• 1920x1080 (+$350 for 3880x1800 touch) 

15" rMBP: 

• $2000 
• i7-4770HQ
• Iris Pro 5200
• 16GB DDR3
• 256GB PCIE SSD (+$300 for a 512gb)
• 2880x1800 Display

The 15" I honestly have a problem with since it's still running Haswell -- which is fine for the CPU, but if it was running Skylake Iris Pro graphics, then it would be able to keep up with the 960m that's in the XPS 15. Anyway, the XPS 15 basically wins every category due to being newer, but the price difference still isn't what half the people who complain about Apple being overpriced make it out to be. Assuming the Skylake 15" rMBP will be similarly priced and spec'd, then it's about 8% more expensive to buy a Mac than a comparable Dell. Again, I do need to emphasize that I would personally have a hard time recommending the 15" rMBP right now due to the fact that Apple still hasn't updated it......for some stupid reason.

[Trav_X]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Even it's competition isn't that cheap. 

 

Take a Dell XPS 13 for example: 

• $1000 base
• i5-6200u
• HD 520
• 8GB DDR3
• 128gb PCIE SSD (+100 for 256gb)
• 1080p display (+300 for 3200x1800 touch)

13" rMBP:

• $1300 base
• i5-5257u 
• Iris 6100 
• 8GB DDR3
• 128gb PCIE SSD (+200 for 256gb) 
• 2560x1600 display 

Configure the Dell with the higher resolution display and it's the same price as the Mac while having a marginally faster cpu, better efficiency, and a touch screen. Compared to the Mac, which has a much better GPU. So at that point it comes down to what you personally care about -- would you rather have more GPU power or a touch screen (and that's something that comes down solely to the individual). And yes, the Dell would be $100 cheaper once configured with a 256gb SSD (but a $100 premium isn't that much if you want OS X). 

 

 

 

Looking at the XPS 15: 

• $1450 
• i7-6700HQ
• GTX 960m / HD 530
• 8GB DDR4 (16GB kit sold separately -- so.... +$50?)
• 256GB PCIE SSD
• 1920x1080 Display

XPS 15 w/ high res display: 

• $1780
• i7-6700HQ
• GTX960m / HD 530 
• 16GB DDR4
• 512GB PCIE SSD
• 1920x1080 (+$350 for 3880x1800 touch) 

15" rMBP: 

• $2000 
• i7-4770HQ
• Iris Pro 5200
• 16GB DDR3
• 256GB PCIE SSD (+$300 for a 512gb)
• 2880x1800 Display

The 15" I honestly have a problem with since it's still running Haswell -- which is fine for the CPU, but if it was running Skylake Iris Pro graphics, then it would be able to keep up with the 960m that's in the XPS 15. Anyway, the XPS 15 basically wins every category due to being newer, but the price difference still isn't what half the people who complain about Apple being overpriced make it out to be. Assuming the Skylake 15" rMBP will be similarly priced and spec'd, then it's about 8% more expensive to buy a Mac than a comparable Dell. Again, I do need to emphasize that I would personally have a hard time recommending the 15" rMBP right now due to the fact that Apple still hasn't updated it......for some stupid reason.

The XPS 15 is dope  basically on of the best Windows laptops right now, that isn't like complete GAMING! focused. It's the best for like a powerful, portable station that runs full Windows 10 and isn't super thick, or super heavy.