Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg side with FBI in IPhone backdoor case

[SeriousDad69]

Just think about the slippery slope! If they help the FBI break into a mass murdering Muslim terrorist's phone, maybe serial killers and pedophiles will be next! Don't want that to happen.

[GoodBytes]

53 minutes ago, zMeul said:

call it whatever you want

 

check the blooberg interview where the said he was missunderstood: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-02-23/gates-disputes-report-that-he-backs-fbi-in-apple-dispute

that right there is damning to his whole "defense"

 

the US Gov is a fucking joke in regards of using NSA and other entities to stop terrorism

they are fucking incompetent with all the mass surveillance they have at their disposal to predict and stop attacks on US soil  - how many incidents already happened ...

Again,  ou of context. You didn't even finish the sentence. Sorry, but the government/police has/need power to operate. "Oh sorry Mr.Criminal that just kill 3 people, would you be kind, on your free time time, and if it is not bothersome to you, of course, go to jail. We, the police, have no power. " Please.

[Sunshine1868]

3 minutes ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Just think about the slippery slope! If they help the FBI break into a mass murdering Muslim terrorist's phone, maybe serial killers and pedophiles will be next! Don't want that to happen.

More like, if when "the key" gets into the wrong hands, all of your secure data can be taken from you if you use any password-protected device.

 

don't be so damn ignorant.

[Misanthrope]

Translation: we already have those backdoors in place or plan on them, lets ease into them by attempting to influence public opinion.

[stconquest]

Now you see how MS got the US gov't to update 16M PCs to Win10. 

[Sunshine1868]

Just now, stconquest said:

Now you see how MS got the US gov't to update 16M PCs to Win10. 

At this rate, I'm f*cking shocked they didn't mandate RedStar OS!! ? 

[GoodBytes]

38 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

Apple does not have "the master key". they refuse to forge it. and for good reason!

There is no forging, the encryption is must be designed for it, and they have the key. And the government has total power, they do like India with BlackBerry. "Oh no decryption.. fine BAN! Doesn't matter on the mass employees you'll fire in India. We don't care it is all on you as you refused to give us the decryption key."

 

All Apple is doing. is encouraging this behavior. Already most Americans support FBI to have FULL access. What Bill Gates basically is saying is that Apple process that decryption. Meaning they make sure there is a warrant, that it is valid, they take the phone, and decrypt the content.

 

 

[maverick_brent]

Whats the reasoning (and forgive me if i was too lazy to read all the comments)...that apple cant secure the phone, dump the data and hand over the data to the fbi. in thier possesion. not the feds. apple has ZERO interest in anything a terrorist is doing other than protecting its security.

  Dump the data and pass it on. have a merrry christmas. but no we will not open millions of phones for you...carry on

 

[Sunshine1868]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

There is no forging, the encryption is must be designed for it, and they have the key. And the government has total power, they do like India with BlackBerry. "Oh no decryption.. fine BAN! Doesn't matter on the mass employees you'll fire in India. We don't care it is all on you as you refused to give us the decryption key."

 

All Apple is doing. is encouraging this behavior. Already most Americans support FBI to have FULL access. What Bill Gates basically is saying is that Apple process that decryption. Meaning they make sure there is a warrant, that it is valid, they take the phone, and decrypt the content.

 

 

Apple CAN'T DECRYPT IT... the code of iOS is written so that the only way to decrypt the data is by MANUALLY entering the PASSCODE when you hit the HOME BUTTON. 

the FBI wants them to rewrite iOS to allow for DIGITAL, UNLIMITED entry of the passcode via the port on the bottom so that they can BRUTE FORCE the passcode.

so as I said, the "key" (read: the crippled iOS software) does not exist, and apple is refusing to make it (hence Tim Cook's writings and the impending lawsuit).

 

for a "staff moderator" you don't know wtf is going on...

[Sunshine1868]

Just now, maverick_brent said:

Whats the reasoning (and forgive me if i was too lazy to read all the comments)...that apple cant secure the phone, dump the data and hand over the data to the fbi. in thier possesion. not the feds. apple has ZERO interest in anything a terrorist is doing other than protecting its security.

  Dump the data and pass it on. have a merrry christmas. but no we will not open millions of phones for you...carry on

 

apple fears that once the backdoor is created, that method can be stolen or duplicated which would cripple the encryption of people's devices and the peoples' privacy along with that.

 

plus, the FBI already has a laundry list of phones they want unlocked in this fashion...it isn't a "one and done" kind of thing. 

to add on top of that, the NYPD came out today saying that allowing this to happen would set a precedent (while the FBI keeps saying it won't) that would allow for lower law enforcement to essentially check anybody's phone that they think is suspicious.

[FakezZ]

8 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

Apple CAN'T DECRYPT IT... the code of iOS is written so that the only way to decrypt the data is by MANUALLY entering the PASSCODE when you hit the HOME BUTTON. 

the FBI wants them to rewrite iOS to allow for DIGITAL, UNLIMITED entry of the passcode via the port on the bottom so that they can BRUTE FORCE the passcode.

so as I said, the "key" (read: the crippled iOS software) does not exist, and apple is refusing to make it (hence Tim Cook's writings and the impending lawsuit).

 

for a "staff moderator" you don't know wtf is going on...

I wish I could hit the agree button more times. People do not seem to understand, that the problem is not Apple refusing to cooperate with the FBI, but rather the FBI basically asking a private company that is in their interest to make sure their customers get the best possible experience, to make their software less secure, opening it up to pretty much anyone with knowledge and capable hardware at their disposal. Privacy is a human right for fuck's sake. I do not care is he killed half of the human population, we are not going to strip away our fucking human rights, because the US Government wants to jack off to the same kind of porn I watch.

Edited February 23, 2016 by FakezZ
Damn typos

[stconquest]

The gov't has to be testing how far they can make the citizens bend over, like they have not been in full thrust already.  All they had to do was do this quietly.  Apple would of complied (within reason), and 99.9% of the population would not have been the wiser.

[silberdrachi]

http://imgur.com/gallery/uz8sADV

 

I wish google's security was this good, but im pretty sure we can all agree that the reason why the FBI hasnt asked for the same thing is because they dont need to.

[8uhbbhu8]

As one of the (relatively) informed I believe Apple is in the right here. Even though I hate many of the things they do with their OS in terms of how locked down it is from users being able to change things they want, this issue right here is why I at the same time am very happy with their security. My current Android phone would never have the same secure lock and encryption on it due to Android being so open.

 

People (Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg included) don't seem to see the bigger picture. Once they get access to one phone they will find a way to force Apple to either give it to them by citing "National Security" or they will just take it.

 

With Apple a master key for 1 phone is a master key for all phones due to how their OS works. SO... imagine how many Iphones throughout the world are used by governments and very important people that the USA Federal government and its various organizations would love to get into to spy on. Even their own Allies.

 

Take the "Angela Merkel"? case. It was discovered that the US was spying on her through her phone. This is the German Chancellor for Peats Sake! HOW does spying on the government of Allied nations constitute "National Security" IT DOESNT. Period.

 

 

The whole reason for encryption is to protect your data. Its something Apple has championed since the start. Allowing people that shouldn't have access to your data to have the access negate the whole point. Even Apple doesn't have access themselves for that very reason.

 

Last of all HOW will getting into this ONE PHONE do anything? All incriminating data on the phone should be available through other means anyway. Email, phone calls, texts, contacts.... that's all available through other means. The only thing on the phone that would be worth anything would be pictures and notes that aren't synced with anything else. This is one incident AND these people are already dead. Getting into their phones will 99% of the time change nothing. What if there is nothing on the phone in the first place? what if all it was used for in the first place was just as a (at the time) normal persons phone? Then we have given the government access to any Apple device for NO REASON. Not to mention the money and time wasted in court and developing the back door.

 

As a last comment (NOT REALLY  ) Isn't it not possible for Apple to force an update on a phone in the first place? you have to sign on to the phone AND confirm the update with a username and password before it will update. As far as I know (correct me if i'm wrong) Apple purposely doesn't have a way to force an update remotely without those credentials which from my knowledge (again am I wrong?) are also encrypted with the same type of algorithm which is all but impossible to crack.

 

Remember its been done with many many other things. Once the government has access to one thing they will exploit it to access many others. People are too ignorant in today's world and trust the government way to easily. Personally I think the government should not have these sort of powers unless the people vote on it AT THE TIME ITS NEEDED and the government has to explain exactly what they are used for, how they are going to use it, why it needs to use it, AND have any files relating to that case looked over and verified by third party watchdogs and then multiple VERIFIED THIRD PARTY groups watching over those powers/cases and then having the powers be automatically taken away once that one problem is solved. Also the groups and people should be changed every time and made sure their are no relations between groups/people. Maybe like how jury duty is relegated except randomly generated who is in each group and no personal input about what each person thinks? Of course not including criminals or people who are biased towards one side or another. (no idea yet how that would be decided)

 

*Sigh* there are SO many problems with how governments are run and who controls what now a days. No one way is right or wrong and even the closest we can ever get are educated guesses due to how humans think and behave when faced with problems. If only there was a way to prevent people from being scared so much by little things and educate everyone in a way everyone has equal knowledge of the situation for they can at least have informed and unbiased input and objective decision making. Without biased information being distributed due to fear, political corruption/power streaks I think this world would definitely be better. The biggest problem with all I have said is HOW to ensure individual bias and corruption doesn't leak in.....

 

Once the government gets in, how long till even more unpleasant groups can...

 

Whats your thoughts on what I said? (No bashing and please have reasons for what you are saying!) (quote me so I can see what you say)

[MilkJugg24]

Even though these are two insanely huge people, I believe their opinions are not worthy of being taken into consideration with the amount of privacy they've breached over the past several years.

 

Facebook has leaked stuff to employers and the cops many times, and Microsoft just takes what they want without telling you and says they use it to "improve" you experiences.

 

They're both leaders of BS privacy, but I still feel like there should be some way to get people's information only if others' lives are on the line. No one can trust anyone I suppose.

[GoodBytes]

28 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

Apple CAN'T DECRYPT IT... the code of iOS is written so that the only way to decrypt the data is by MANUALLY entering the PASSCODE when you hit the HOME BUTTON. 

the FBI wants them to rewrite iOS to allow for DIGITAL, UNLIMITED entry of the passcode via the port on the bottom so that they can BRUTE FORCE the passcode.

so as I said, the "key" (read: the crippled iOS software) does not exist, and apple is refusing to make it (hence Tim Cook's writings and the impending lawsuit).

 

for a "staff moderator" you don't know wtf is going on...

No. You are not understanding. The FBI wants is the data decrypted. AND to have a master key to decrypt the data themselves in the future.

 

 

Bill Gates suggests a balance, which Apple can do. such as they get the phone, they decrypt it with their master key, and give the data, and not build a backdoor for the FBI to have carte blanch on everything, as FBI wants

[Stuff_]

24 minutes ago, silberdrachi said:

http://imgur.com/gallery/uz8sADV

 

I wish google's security was this good, but im pretty sure we can all agree that the reason why the FBI hasnt asked for the same thing is because they dont need to.

Google security isn't this good? When was the last time you knew of a Google system that was compromised?

As far as Android security, FDE uses a 128bit AES. That is just as sufficient as Apple in this case. Trouble is, we don't know how many devices are encrypted with Android. Samsung and those that alter the source code probably add in their own (unknown) security vulnerabilities. That creates another issue.

But if you have a Nexus device with the latest OS, you are as encrypted as an iPhone.

 

[Sunshine1868]

25 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

No. You are not understanding. The FBI wants is the data decrypted. AND to have a master key to decrypt the data themselves in the future.

 

 

Bill Gates suggests a balance, which Apple can do. such as they get the phone, they decrypt it with their master key, and give the data, and not build a backdoor for the FBI to have carte blanch on everything, as FBI wants

No bud, the FBI wants the ability to brute-force the phone. Read Tim Cook's original letter. The FBI wants apple to create a version of iOS that allows for digital guesses of the passcode, no limit on the number of guesses until the phone wipes itself, and no extended timeout for multiple wrong guesses.

 

They are not explicitly asking for the data. 

 

@GoodBytes

 

"The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer." -Tim Cook, Apple's "Letter to our Customers" <http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/>

[Stuff_]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

No bud, the FBI wants the ability to brute-force the phone. Read Tim Cook's original letter. The FBI wants apple to create a version of iOS that allows for digital guesses of the passcode, no limit on the number of guesses until the phone wipes itself, and no extended timeout for multiple wrong guesses.

 

They are not asking for the data. 

Yup, asking for a backdoor, or a "master key" (which doesn't exist) is way too obvious of a request. The ability to bruteforce a simple pin-code (assuming) is trivial. 

[Sunshine1868]

1 minute ago, Stuff_ said:

Yup, asking for a backdoor, or a "master key" (which doesn't exist) is way too obvious of a request. The ability to bruteforce a simple pin-code (assuming) is trivial. 

They want the ability to brute force the phone because that broad terminology and method can be applied to all password-encrypted devices.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, Sunshine1868 said:

No bud, the FBI wants the ability to brute-force the phone. Read Tim Cook's original letter. The FBI wants apple to create a version of iOS that allows for digital guesses of the passcode, no limit on the number of guesses until the phone wipes itself, and no extended timeout for multiple wrong guesses.

 

They are not asking for the data. 

 

Just now, Sunshine1868 said:

@GoodBytes

 

"The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force,” trying thousands or millions of combinations with the speed of a modern computer." -Tim Cook, Apple's "Letter to our Customers" <http://www.apple.com/customer-letter/>

I am reading that the FBI wants both

And Bill Gates says that Apple should decrypt the phone user data, not siding with the FBI entirely where it wants full access to any phone it feels like.

[carolkarine]

Gate's analogy actually works excellently. Once you cut that ribbon, it stays cut.

[Stuff_]

1 minute ago, Sunshine1868 said:

They want the ability to brute force the phone because that broad terminology and method can be applied to all password-encrypted devices.

Of course, I've brute forced a WPA2 passcode (please don't tell on me). It's very easy to do with aircrack, you just need a nice dictionary/password list, and some good rules for john the ripper to manipulate the strings. 

It can take hours, days, weeks, years. But it is possible (and I only have a consumer grade PC, FBI clearly has a cluster network or something).

[Sunshine1868]

@GoodBytes The FBI would love the encrypted data, that is the end goal. However it would be a 2 birds, 1 stone situation if they could set the precedent that "all password-protected devices should have a backdoor to allow for a brute force method of decrypting it"

 

 

[Guest Kloaked]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

 

I am reading that the FBI wants both

And Bill Gates says that Apple should decrypt the phone user data, not siding with the FBI entirely where it wants full access to any phone it feels like.

 

Based Goodbytes is reking today jfc