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AMD - AM4 Socket is confirmed for upcoming Zen CPUs and APUs - CES 2016

kameshss
By kameshss
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Posted

My god people are so disingenuous its bordering religion. 

 

Yeah, a 6K rpm fan is just as loud as a 3K rpm fan. Which makes sense because a 200W CPU doesn't require more CFM than a 80W CPU.

Now, that was never my argument.. 

 

But, you dont seem to care about "religion" (other people reasoning), so I'll spare you..

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

"the last 20 percent – going from demo to production-worthy algorithm – is both hard and is time-consuming. The last 20 percent is what separates the men from the boys" - Mobileye CEO

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But, you dont seem to care about "religion" (other people reasoning), so I'll spare you..

 

Projecting so hard, you're giving off powerpoint presentations

 

For years people have been saying the same shit on forums and formed an objective consensus. And everytime some asshole creeps up and starts flatout making disingenuous statements, contradicting it. And then after 6 pages of arguing when you finally give up they say "oh so now you leave, can't take a different opinion?" 

 

It's insult to injury, but I know you people will never leave. Because you've got invested interest.

Pascal Undervolting topic, get more out of your card with less power!

Why high refreshrate monitors look better even without Freesync/G-sync in one image.
Stutters, framedrops, "lag". How to provide detailed information with your "bottleneck" question, as well as a few solutions.

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Projecting so hard, you're giving off powerpoint presentations

 

For years people have been saying the same shit on forums and formed an objective consensus. And everytime some asshole creeps up and starts flatout making disingenuous statements, contradicting it. And then after 6 pages of arguing when finally give up they say "oh so now you leave, can't take a different opinion?" 

 

It's insult to injury, but I know you people will never leave. Because you've got invested interest.

Majestic,

 

That objective consensus is quite different from the forums, I can tell you. Wouldn't have it any other way, as that would be quite the echochamber.

You are spinning my argument. That is the problem, not that you have a different opinion.

 

To emphasize: My comment regarding AMD vs Intels stock cooler was never about them been equally aloud, but rather both been quite terrible (notice, I'm not saying they are equal terrible, just that both are terrible). Both are still functional.

 

If this discussion isn't turning back into topic, I'll be out.

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

"the last 20 percent – going from demo to production-worthy algorithm – is both hard and is time-consuming. The last 20 percent is what separates the men from the boys" - Mobileye CEO

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CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor  ($138.89 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-970A-D3P ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard  ($74.98 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $280.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-09 14:32 EST-0500
 

 
CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($183.88 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H110M-A Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($55.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $292.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-09 14:33 EST-0500
You were saying? Yeah, AMD such good value. lol.
 
This also doesn't totally become more annoying if you have to repeat it for 5 years. Nope, not at all.

 

 

not saying you're wrong with amd's performance just the amd build can be cheaper with a 8320e and a asrock 970m pro3 board right now but still wont make any difference  

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Majestic,

 

That objective consensus is quite different from the forums, I can tell you. Wouldn't have it any other way, as that would be quite the echochamber.

You are spinning my argument. That is the problem, not that you have a different opinion.

 

To emphasize: My comment regarding AMD vs Intels stock cooler was never about them been equally aloud, but rather both been quite terrible (notice, I'm not saying they are equal terrible, just that both are terrible). Both are still functional.

 

If this discussion isn't turning back into topic, I'll be out.

 

But the lack of nuance regarding the stockcooler is still disingenuous. You can live with the audibles of the intel stock cooler, i have for months and i'm very picky about noiselevels.

On sufficient load, that AMD stockfan is unbearably loud. Making the aftermarket almost a necessity.

 

I'm not advocating for an echochamber, on the contrary, but that doesn't mean I won't condemn people spreading factual inaccuracies. Like AMD being good value for gaming.

Pascal Undervolting topic, get more out of your card with less power!

Why high refreshrate monitors look better even without Freesync/G-sync in one image.
Stutters, framedrops, "lag". How to provide detailed information with your "bottleneck" question, as well as a few solutions.

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Who is talking 8+2 for APU's. I specifically made a 8320 build earlier. Too difficult to stay on subject for 3-4 consecutive posts? 

 

And no, Netherlands does not have a microcentre equivalent. Nothing like the US has. You have different shops, but they mostly have the same prices, no mail-in rebates or packagedeals. Alternate has upgrade sets, but they're just as expensive as choosing them yourself.

 

8+2 isn't subjective. It's objectively to prevent throttling. That's objective. Again, you seem to not understand the difference.

Those are two separate subjects. Your focus on 8+2, and your discount of APU, not directly related. And since OC was not a part of the argument that caveat for hardware is of no consequence. Once again, you are projecting your subjective values into other people's choices. 8+2 is a subjective consideration here because there is no argument about OC. I don't recall the original comment specifying FX either, or noise from fans, or DDR3 vs 4.

 

Let me put this in a less biased, for our group, context. Someone says they want to buy a car, they want to have some grunt for the highway, they want to have a little fun between the lights, and they want it to be affordable. So they get a Camaro, or a Genesis, or something. They are happy, it does what they want, for the price they were willing to pay. Then you come along and say "NO" there is no reason to buy a chevy or hyundai unless its for an econobox or a pickup, if you are wanting to have fun in a car it HAS to be a BMW. They are better all the way around, and you can get one for the same price as your Genesis. But, not everybody wants to compare a Camaro or Genesis to a stock 2-series that still costs 20% more. What some people want and value leads them to a chevy or a Nissan or an Alfa, regardless of your belief that the BMW is the best, or your erroneous belief it is comparable in price. They get their expected return and enjoy themselves with their zippy little V8 or heavy retro styled slab sided tank. 

 

Your arguments have not been cogent to the debate, there have been goalposts moved, and new ones added to the field of play, with no connection to the original commentary. IF you are going FX, and IF you are going 8 core, and IF you choose to skimp on a mobo or ram or PSU, its only an issue when it's an issue. Plenty of people are running 8 core FX's quite happily on lower end boards, they do not need or want OC, they aren't running 500 dollar video cards so maxing out on CPU is not their primary concern. Getting done what they want to get done at the price they are willing to pay is. And while I would not suggest ANYONE buy an iBuyPower "gaming" machine running an FX-4300 and a Geforce 740 they sell that product and people apparently buy it. If someone is willing to live with 4+1, or 4 GB of ram, or a 400 watt PSU, or an 860k instead of an i3, you don't get to claim a win by ignoring that. I could say it has to be a K-series Intel SKU to be a valid comparo to an FX BE, or no full ATX, or ITX only which means no FX by default, or dual core with iGPU only. 

 

The original comment, where this started was short and sweet. It does what he wants it to do, it get him solid 60FPS, and was easy on his budget.

 

 

 

On the commentary on prices in Des Nederlands I would have to see what local prices are for such hardware. I know in Aus and NZ prices are crazy high for no good reason, and there are many online vendors that will only selectively ship internationally. So if and when someone from one of these limited markets comes along we may have to change our recommendations based on their needs and wants, and based on what they can even get affordable access to. We know OC was from Norway, from your "cucked" commentary I presume you are in Germany somewhere?

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But the lack of nuance regarding the stockcooler is still disingenuous. You can live with the audibles of the intel stock cooler, i have for months and i'm very picky about noiselevels.

On sufficient load, that AMD stockfan is unbearably loud. Making the aftermarket almost a necessity.

 

I'm not advocating for an echochamber, on the contrary, but that doesn't mean I won't condemn people spreading factual inaccuracies. Like AMD being good value for gaming.

The problem is this is subjective. Both are terrible, but both are also functional.

I used a Intel stock cooler (came with my 4770k) for the first ~month, before tearing it out, as it was quite unbearable.

 

Then point out the factual inaccuracies, and lets discuss them. We are not saying that overall (in all priceranges) that AMD can provide a better solution for a gaming PC, but to outright reject AMDs value in tight budgets builds is a mistake.

Please avoid feeding the argumentative narcissistic academic monkey.

"the last 20 percent – going from demo to production-worthy algorithm – is both hard and is time-consuming. The last 20 percent is what separates the men from the boys" - Mobileye CEO

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The problem is this is subjective. Both are terrible, but both are also functional.

I used a Intel stock cooler (came with my 4770k) for the first ~month, before tearing it out, as it was quite unbearable.

 

Then point out the factual inaccuracies, and lets discuss them. We are not saying that overall (in all priceranges) that AMD can provide a better solution for a gaming PC, but to outright reject AMDs value in tight budgets builds is a mistake.

 

Heck I myself have said that if I can't hold out till Zen or Zen disappoints my next batch of hardware will be Intel, even having to focus on a budget. I have made it about as far as I can on AMD without some massive improvement, so even if it meant not being top dog I would build Intel to get a boost from current performance, even though I would do so as cheaply as I could.

 

And on the fans, I have always been more concerned with function than noise, but I don't begrudge anyone who subjectively values silence more than keeping cash in pocket. But that is one place where AMD has helped me out a ton, I have had the same Zalman cooler since my used AM2 rig from years back. Still works on FM2+.

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CPU: AMD FX-8320 3.5GHz 8-Core Processor  ($138.89 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-970A-D3P ATX AM3+/AM3 Motherboard  ($74.98 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $280.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-09 14:32 EST-0500
 

 
CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($183.88 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H110M-A Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($55.99 @ Amazon) 
Total: $292.76
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-01-09 14:33 EST-0500
You were saying? Yeah, AMD such good value. lol.
 
This also doesn't totally become more annoying if you have to repeat it for 5 years. Nope, not at all.

 

There are multiple flaws here. 

1. AMD build has a CPU cooler, Intel one doesn't - I've seen your comments regarding having to have 8+2 to prevent throttling - I'm telling you now, 8+2 power phase is not necessary. I personally know 3 close friends, all have an 8320 and all have relatively cheap 4+1 Asrock boards (970DE3) and have had no issues with thermal throttling. Yeah, the cooler can or cannot be loud depending on so many other variables such as ambient temp, amount of fans in the system etc. but regardless, using your dissatisfaction of the AMD cooler as a reasoning to add a CPU cooler to one build and not another is purely subjective. AMD would not pack a CPU cooler in with their own CPU with the possibility of the processor being damaged. 

 

2. What i said above rolls on to the motherboard. You can get a much cheaper board than what you've listed 

 

3. For some reason, you've gotten 2 different speeds of RAM (makes the Intel build look worse).... 

 

Conclusively, this comparison you've cooked up is essentially flawed. 

THE BEAST - Motherboard: MSI B350 Tomahawk   CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700   GPU: Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X OC  RAM: 16GB G.Skill FlareX DDR4   

 

PSU: Corsair CX650M     Case: Corsair 200R    SSD: Kingston 240GB SSD Plus   HDD: 1TB WD Green Drive and Seagate Barracuda 2TB Media Drive

 

 

 

 

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There are multiple flaws here. 

1. AMD build has a CPU cooler, Intel one doesn't - I've seen your comments regarding having to have 8+2 to prevent throttling - I'm telling you now, 8+2 power phase is not necessary. I personally know 3 close friends, all have an 8320 and all have relatively cheap 4+1 Asrock boards (970DE3) and have had no issues with thermal throttling. Yeah, the cooler can or cannot be loud depending on so many other variables such as ambient temp, amount of fans in the system etc. but regardless, using your dissatisfaction of the AMD cooler as a reasoning to add a CPU cooler to one build and not another is purely subjective. AMD would not pack a CPU cooler in with their own CPU with the possibility of the processor being damaged. 

 

2. What i said above rolls on to the motherboard. You can get a much cheaper board than what you've listed 

 

3. For some reason, you've gotten 2 different speeds of RAM (makes the Intel build look worse).... 

 

Conclusively, this comparison you've cooked up is essentially flawed. 

1. Only the unlocked CPU don't have a stock cooler. * Phase CPU VRM are needed for the longevity of the motherboard and overclocking. AMD stock coolers are only ok to good on older locked CPU such as Phenom II X4.

2. Uhhhh no, not if you want one that again has longevity and can overclock an FX8***

3. That's DDR3 vs DDR4, and that's also the maximum supported frequency with the FX series unless you use only 2 sticks. BTW-Skylake benefits from high speed RAM a lot.

 

Hate to burst your bubble-but you didn't know what you were talking about.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

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1. Only the unlocked CPU don't have a stock cooler. * Phase CPU VRM are needed for the longevity of the motherboard and overclocking. AMD stock coolers are only ok to good on older locked CPU such as Phenom II X4.

2. Uhhhh no, not if you want one that again has longevity and can overclock an FX8***

3. That's DDR3 vs DDR4, and that's also the maximum supported frequency with the FX series unless you use only 2 sticks. BTW-Skylake benefits from high speed RAM a lot.

 

Hate to burst your bubble-but you didn't know what you were talking about.

1. What? I'm talking about him including a custom CPU cooler with the AMD build and not the Intel one.......

 

2. Once again, even some of the Asrock boards (for e.g.) are fine and are good enough to handle the FX8s.. I personally have seen it, if you don't want to believe me, that's up to you. The boards that are rated for the FX8s, even on 4+1 are just fine at stock. If you want to get into overclocking, the 6400 he's listed in the Intel build isn't even unlocked..

 

3. He can feel free to use DDR4 on the Intel side and DDR3 on the AMD side (yes I know it's not supported on AM3+).. We are talking about budget and value builds though and if the benefits you say are worth it, then I'm cool with it. 

 

"AMD stock coolers are only ok to good on older locked CPU such as Phenom II X4."

I'm assuming you're trying to say the stock cooler is only good on the locked AMD CPUs. The stock cooler may be louder on the FX8s, but it doesn't mean the CPU (such as the unlocked 8350) isn't adequately being cooled.

 

Your argument is based on your subjective opinion that the AMD CPU cooler is not good enough to handle the CPU it was bundled with and rated to handle, in addition to your opinion that some motherboards, which are rated to handle the FX8s for example, aren't good enough either. 

THE BEAST - Motherboard: MSI B350 Tomahawk   CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 1700   GPU: Sapphire R9 290 Tri-X OC  RAM: 16GB G.Skill FlareX DDR4   

 

PSU: Corsair CX650M     Case: Corsair 200R    SSD: Kingston 240GB SSD Plus   HDD: 1TB WD Green Drive and Seagate Barracuda 2TB Media Drive

 

 

 

 

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Yeah bring the $1500 price point from intel!

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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