Vessel. Questions and false promises.

[Timmyfox]

Before I start, let me just say that yes I understand they've been busy with the moving and everything, however I still feel as a long-time subscriber that some things haven't been clear enough regarding the treatment of Vessel compared to Youtube lately.

 

So, to start. Here's the from video where Linus officially announces Vessel. Notice that 2 minutes into the video he says the following;

Okay so, hold on the Linus! After my year expires, I have to wait for your video of like "hot new product XYZ" that other Youtubers will cover right away when the NDA lifts? And what about coverage from shows? Won't CES videos be irrelevant if they're a week late?

 

No, it's okay, we've made special arrangements with Vessel to make content available on all platforms simultaneously in some cases, including key product launches and show coverage.

 

I bolded key product launches as I feel this is the most important part of the statement.

 

So, this is quite a good thing that not everything gets the full week of exclusivity on Vessel, yes? Yes, that's good because that means even those who only watch LTT on Youtube will be able to watch their reviews and show coverage right away when it's probably most relevant to us subscribers - great! (Because who wants to watch a review of a product or show coverage a week after when everyone else and their dog has already been talking about it the whole week?)

 

 

This would be great if this was actually the case.

See, the problem I've noticed here is that there's been multiple videos where the deadline's been missed in the last little while and even other videos I would very much consider a "key product launch" that has, in fact, been a 7-day exclusive on Vessel despite the statement I've quoted above. The ones I've noticed are as follows:

 

• Core i7 6700K "Skylake" - This review was exclusive on Vessel for a full week and really, if this isn't considered a "key product launch", what is? The Coolermaster MasterCase Pro 5 apparently as the video was released to both Vessel and Youtube simultaneously with no exclusivity the week after. I saw a lot of users claiming it may be because the review unit was delivered late, though I don't see why they would choose to make it a 7-day exclusive simply because the review was delayed anyway - If anything, shouldn't they be making the best out of the situation to please us viewers?
• The mystery live unboxings (Intel and LG): These videos were both 7-day exclusives on Vessel and the LG unboxing video was uploaded the day after the Intel one, nothing bad about that right? No, except that neither of those actually went live on Youtube the following week but instead took a full extra week before they went live on Youtube, effectively making them Vessel-exclusives for a full two weeks instead of 7 days as they were supposed to be. An interesting thing to note here is that they went up on Youtube in the same order as they did on Vessel with the same time spacing in between (1 day) which makes me doubt they just "forgot" or was "too busy"
• Ultimaker review: Another 7-day exclusive and also one I don't mind it being exclusive. This is a similar story to the mystery unboxings - It never went up on Youtube the week after it went up on Vessel, however this didn't just take an extra week but two extra weeks before it finally went live, making this "7-day exclusive" actually spend a full 3 weeks on Vessel before everyone on Youtube was able to watch it as well.
• GeForece GTX 950: Whether or not this can be considered a "key product launch" can be argued but I will mention that, at the time of writing, this video has 2 days left of its 7-day Vessel exclusivity.
• AMD Radeon R9 Nano: This one however rather upset me. There's already several other channels and review sites that have posted their reviews on this on Youtube, but where's Linus' video?? If you guessed Vessel - that's correct! This is yet another review of what I would most certainly consider a "key product launch" that is posted with a 7-day exclusivity on Vessel.

 

There may be more but these are the ones I've made note of. So let me ask, WTF?

 

I could understand if a video or two got uploaded to Youtube a little late due to issues, especially with the moving which I know have kept LMG very busy as of late, yes. But multiple videos in a row where the pattern is too consistent for it to be just a mistake or them being too busy; The LG mystery live unboxing went up the day after the Intel one did on both Vessel and Youtube making both videos be on Vessel only for exactly 14 days each. And this was even repeated with the Ultimaker video, although that one took 3 weeks instead of 2.

 

I could also see many potential excuses for the Skylake review as it, indeed, got delayed from the start and the GTX 950 video could be excused with it being a fairly low-tier model, sure. But the R9 Nano? What's the excuse for that? That they already reviewed the Fury X?? Sorry but I think the pattern here is starting to become rather obvious.

 

I will mention that, instead of the R9 Nano video, there has been multiple recent videos that have not been exclusives on Vessel such as the entire Pax Prime coverage as well as the "UltraWide Festival 2015" video which is a contest announcement that I'm fairly certain was sponsored in some way.

 

Now finally, I have not seen a single official announcement from Linus / LMG on this other than this one Tweet from Linus which doesn't seem too relevant;

Some peeps noticed videos going up on Vessel and youtube at the same time. Just a temporary thing. Scheduling challenges and whatnot.

 

 

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I would appreciate if someone from LMG would comment on this to actually clarify what's going on, because what I see is that the promise was that some videos would go up on Vessel a week early as a paid exclusive and then go on Youtube right after and that "key product launches" would not key this exclusivity, yet that lie has been broken yet LMG doesn't say anything about it (this could be considered false marketing).

 

@LinusTech @Slick @nicklmg

[ImBleu]

Vessel is just stupid personally. I don't like it, even as someone who has Vessel.

 

Will I pay for it after my year? FUCK NO.

 

I imagine linus going down to like 10 views on vessel after the year is over.

[manikyath]

thank you for your long and constructive post. (really, at least you threw up some facts.)

 

and i'd like to highlight the difference between "a product review" and a "launch day video"

 

a good example of the latter is the pax videos, if they're a week late, everyone stops caring, its all ogre.

 

a good example of the first one would be the nano. amd sent them one for review, they make the video, and release it.

--

i feel like they're currently still very much in an experimental "alpha" phase, trying to find their way around the new office, and vessel. (and any other platforms they may be moving to in the future.)

 

i kinda want to also add that "false promises" is a REALLY harsh word for content thats 100% free, on the youtube side, and until everyone's year runs out, technically also free on vessel. in the end they need to promise you nothing, as long as you're not a paying customer. (just like an "all you can eat" restaurant can bounce you out before you pay, a lot of these places have you come in to pay beforehand for parties. as long as you didnt pay, they dont *have* to accept you in their buildings.)

 

as for the 2-week and 3-week delays, i feel like that has to do with scheduling, because they keep to one video each day, and shifting things around will happen if you have content that needs to be in two places at the same time. (once again, alpha phase)

[dizmo]

Some people sure think something that they've invested nothing into owes them the world.

I get some of your points. But honestly you aren't invested in the company. You aren't giving them a monthly payment. It's all free.

 

I won't pay for Vessel after the year. However, I also don't have any belief that LMG owes me anything, even if they go against what they've previously said.

And I have given the company money.

Not much, but I'm now a poor student

[nicklmg]

Will update a reply - need to find time and a bit slammed right now.

EDIT: Linus beat me to the punch. Official response below.

[Timmyfox]

thank you for your long and constructive post. (really, at least you threw up some facts.)

 

and i'd like to highlight the difference between "a product review" and a "launch day video"

 

a good example of the latter is the pax videos, if they're a week late, everyone stops caring, its all ogre.

 

a good example of the first one would be the nano. amd sent them one for review, they make the video, and release it.

--

i feel like they're currently still very much in an experimental "alpha" phase, trying to find their way around the new office, and vessel. (and any other platforms they may be moving to in the future.)

 

i kinda want to also add that "false promises" is a REALLY harsh word for content thats 100% free, on the youtube side, and until everyone's year runs out, technically also free on vessel. in the end they need to promise you nothing, as long as you're not a paying customer. (just like an "all you can eat" restaurant can bounce you out before you pay, a lot of these places have you come in to pay beforehand for parties. as long as you didnt pay, they dont *have* to accept you in their buildings.)

 

as for the 2-week and 3-week delays, i feel like that has to do with scheduling, because they keep to one video each day, and shifting things around will happen if you have content that needs to be in two places at the same time. (once again, alpha phase)

Good reply and good points.

Yeah I suppose the title is perhaps a bit harsh and 'clickbaity' if you will, though I wouldn't call it incorrect still considering that, from what I would say, the announcement quite clearly implied that videos like the Nano and Skylake at least still should not be exclusives. And before this, none of the major releases like these at the same level has, to my knowledge, been exclusive on Vessel this way.

 

What I mean is that, the way he phrased the statement, it sounded like what he wanted to avoid was having videos of show coverage and "hot new releases" be released later for the larger audience. He presented that quite clearly as a concern the viewers would have and addressed it as something that shouldn't happen/be an issue.

 

This is why I feel they didn't stick to their original statement. My point is, certainly, not to bash on LMG because I really enjoy their videos or cause too much trouble. But I did want to give some criticism as I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of official wording on this situation.

 

Simply put, I wanted to attract some attention without being too aggressive in order to hopefully get an official response to clear it all up.

 

 

Some people sure think something that they've invested nothing into owes them the world.

I get some of your points. But honestly you aren't invested in the company. You aren't giving them a monthly payment. It's all free.

 

I won't pay for Vessel after the year. However, I also don't have any belief that LMG owes me anything, even if they go against what they've previously said.

And I have given the company money.

Not much, but I'm now a poor student

Yes and no. The content is available for free (well, you do pay in ad revenue), yes which is nice. And no I'm not implying they owe me anything.

What I am saying is just, simply put (I don't wanna go all into detail once more), Linus made a statement that they would do things one way yet they ended up doing essentially the thing they said they wouldn't do. They are free to do this, yes, but I would much prefer if they would better inform us, the viewers, of the changes they've been doing lately instead of just "changing the rules" without saying anything.

 

Will update a reply - need to find time and a bit slammed right now.

Thank you! I appreciate that

[ClownFace1511]

Shots fired. It is hard to stick to a schedule and you cant just call them out on it straight away. I'm sure moving really would of shook them around but videos like the R9 nano should of been releases on yt and vessel. Then again vessel has given them a pretty good pay out to join their service so to keep their end of the bargain this could be part of the terms for all we know.

[manikyath]

--

its honestly refreshing to see someone come with actual points, rather than straight hatespeech (which was my expectance to go into this.)

 

certainly nice to see you not reply with "omg you're such a blind fanboy" to my post. (which has happened before...)

[Tech_Dreamer]

Technically, the issue started way back, OP does have good points , but sad to say Linus is the content creator & provider , he can change the policy as the "promise" was not a written guarentee to his audience (new or old) , it's just the hook part , sooner or later people who are already used to vesser early acces after subscription is over will turn to payment method after they feel being left out, currently the game's free , in a away it depends on what Linus decide to make the call

 

Honestly, he's in the business side of things, his passion for providing quality tech content is there but , on the business side of things you have to say no to old methods which brings no profit to his company, i have been sad from the time he decided to push exclusive early release on to a paid platform, to see that he all of a sudden decide to push things on to a different direction , but it's just a week delay, he's not censoring content or exclusive lock videos on vessel, This is  a huge plus for me, it's just a mere wait period , but it all honesty it does frustrates older audience who are used to the rhythm of things..

 

For now , if you want ltt content early either subscribe via payment or(like seriously & sadly) root for other channels which provides similar review , there are others who do exact product reviews sometimes it's good or better sometime it doesn't match up with the quality Linus provides but good points but i think a good time to rant would be when they start to lock contents exclusively for vesse subscribers & not his general audience..For now i think we all need to adjust to this schedule.. it's not that hard of a thing to do, if there are negative effects & there will be maybe then they'll relax on those tight scheduling conflict on content they deem exclusive..

[Teemslo]

Some people sure think something that they've invested nothing into owes them the world.

I get some of your points. But honestly you aren't invested in the company. You aren't giving them a monthly payment. It's all free.

 

I won't pay for Vessel after the year. However, I also don't have any belief that LMG owes me anything, even if they go against what they've previously said.

And I have given the company money.

 

Yes and no, I don't think LMG owes us anything, but I do expect FULL honest disclosure from trusted reviewers. When you say one thing on the public front and do another without disclosing why to the audience it makes me question the rest of the content. 

[EChondo]

Some people sure think something that they've invested nothing into owes them the world.

I get some of your points. But honestly you aren't invested in the company. You aren't giving them a monthly payment. It's all free.

 

I won't pay for Vessel after the year. However, I also don't have any belief that LMG owes me anything, even if they go against what they've previously said.

How is this an excuse at all? LMG says one thing and then does a 180, but because we don't pay them in any way then it's fine if they lie/go back on their word?

 

Do you also excuse false advertisement from companies but since you don't buy their products it's fine for them to lie to their customer's faces as well?

 

Hey Sony has a "Water Proof" phone you might be interested in.

 

*Edit, INB4 LMG says that the R9 Nano and Skylake aren't "key product launches" thus don't need to release simultaneously. 

[Chris_R.]

I mean...what?

 

Vessel {seems to me} = faster video releases.

 

YouTube is so far behind on video's its nice to feel up to date with LTT.

 

Like take scrapyard wars. It took a month to watch the last one video by video. Hopefully vessel will speed things up.

[Timmyfox]

Yes and no, I don't think LMG owes us anything, but I do expect FULL honest disclosure from trusted reviewers. When you say one thing on the public front and do another without disclosing why to the audience it makes me question the rest of the content. 

Yeah, that's basically what I'm trying to say and why I'm asking for details on this.

[Guest]

To be a tad bit honest, Because of Vessel, Yes I know it supports LMG, But as a long time subscriber, Vessel kinda hurts.

I miss when it was we content as soon as we could, Now, It's like, we have to wait for new reviews on CPU's GPU's ect. Thats where it hurts, the things that are important, we don't get to see first anymore. I can understand vlogs, scrapyard wars which are for pure entertainment, but new products that are hot that JUST came out , ex) Fury Nano (If they get a review sample) I don't expect it for at least a week or two after the vessel release. When I would ideally like to see it in 3-4 days. It kinda hurts IMO because  

Oh another example, with the Intel "Console" for skylake how NCIX had a video out before them (That kinda hurts IMO) And that was at the fan meetup which was quite a while ago...

 Thats just my opinion on Vessel, As a teen & long time sub who doesn't have money :U
I'm sorry if this was slightly off topic.

[EChondo]

I mean...what?

 

Vessel {seems to me} = faster video releases.

 

YouTube is so far behind on video's its nice to feel up to date with LTT.

 

Like take scrapyard wars. It took a month to watch the last one video by video. Hopefully vessel will speed things up.

Yeah it is faster video releases because Linus makes it faster. That's the whole point of a Vessel sub, to get videos one week earlier than YouTube.

 

Like take scrapyard wars. It took a month to watch the last one video by video. Hopefully vessel will speed things up.

Uh no.

 

Vessel Parts A-E:

• 6/28/2015 
• 6/20/2015
• 6/13/2015
• 6/7/2015
• 5/31/2015

YouTube Parts A-E:

• 7/4/2015
• 6/28/2015 
• 6/20/2015
• 6/13/2015
• 6/7/2015

YouTube is ONE WEEK later, it still takes a month to release on both platforms, Vessel only started one week earlier, if Linus chooses to do so.

[LinusTech]

I'm on my phone so pardon my brevity, but we chose to do exclusive releases on a few product launches recently because for two of them we were already late (even the Vessel release) anyway so we figured anyone desperate to know how that product performs can watch or read one of the other 100 reviews of it in the meantime..

And for Fury Nano because (as some hard noticed) we've burned a lot of simulaneous release days lately (something that upsets our vessel viewers who are paying for early access) and our release schedule is SCREWED right now (as some of you have noticed) with some video delayed on YouTube by another week because of show coverage.

That's pretty much all there is to it. There are a limited number of simulaneous release slots we get and we have to decide how to best allocate them.

[Chris_R.]

Yeah it is faster video releases because Linus makes it faster. That's the whole point of a Vessel sub, to get videos one week earlier than YouTube.

 

Uh no.

 

Vessel Parts A-E:

• 6/28/2015 
• 6/20/2015
• 6/13/2015
• 6/7/2015
• 5/31/2015

YouTube Parts A-E:

• 7/4/2015
• 6/28/2015 
• 6/20/2015
• 6/13/2015
• 6/7/2015

YouTube is ONE WEEK later, it still takes a month to release on both platforms, Vessel only started one week earlier, if Linus chooses to do so.

Oh okay, I'm still new to Vessel...I wasn't around for Scrapyard wars 2 on Vessel so I didn't know better than to basically ask.

[ReTV]

So what about the ads? Over the last months, Vessel started displaying ads at the start of each video. Yes, there are only 5s long and most of them are charities, but that doesn't make them any less of an ad. And now there is a second LTT video with its own ad at the end.

 

I've said it one time and it is still true: Vessels business model by itself is flawed. There can only be so much content on Vessel, but there is all the content on YouTube. No one wants to switch platforms when switching videos/channels (that's like having a separate TV for every network). If I could watch all other YT channels on Vessel and get YT suggestions, that would be great. Technically possible, legally not - and it would just be YT premium.

 

So I'd rather buy a YT "premium" subscription and watch everything I like rather than paying for Vessel just to watch some of it. I predict (and hope) Vessel will just die off.

 

[Misanthrope]

I'm glad this is lucrative for LMG but I really don't understand Vessel's launch strategy which seems to resume to "kick the ball away for a year then....profit?" It's been a little while and I honestly can tell you I only go to Vessel (when I remember) to look for Linus tech tips videos early. I see no reason to watch anything else since literally no other youtuber I follow has moved over there since launch and after the year is up the expectation is that I pay a fee for something I barely use and mostly because I was lucky to get in for free...

 

Vessel doesn't seems to be gaining any traction and well the clock is ticking to capture an audience, kinda doubt they can survive giving people another free year and stuff. Then again I might be completely wrong and there might be a massive migration happening to Vessel right now....but I don't think I'm far off.

[ajoy39]

I'm glad this is lucrative for LMG but I really don't understand Vessel's launch strategy which seems to resume to "kick the ball away for a year then....profit?" It's been a little while and I honestly can tell you I only go to Vessel (when I remember) to look for Linus tech tips videos early. I see no reason to watch anything else since literally no other youtuber I follow has moved over there since launch and after the year is up the expectation is that I pay a fee for something I barely use and mostly because I was lucky to get in for free...

 

Vessel doesn't seems to be gaining any traction and well the clock is ticking to capture an audience, kinda doubt they can survive giving people another free year and stuff. Then again I might be completely wrong and there might be a massive migration happening to Vessel right now....but I don't think I'm far off.

 

this is basically how all tech startups work at this point. You get start up capital (money) from VCs (Venture capitalists, aka people with lots of money) and in return you give them a portion of ownership in your company. They're gambling that the company will be successful and they can sell of their stock later for a profit. Most tech companies will operate at a loss for the first year or sometimes even longer* than that if they can keep receiving funding from people who believe the company will someday be successful. For a service like Vessel the ability to show potential investors that you have a user base of both content creators and viewers, even viewers who are not yet paying for the service, is a point of negotiation for get more investment dollars. Rather or not a significant portion of that viewer base will eventually turn in to paying customers is yet to be seen, and only Vessel knows for sure how many paying customers they currently have at all, but it's not at all unusual for them to be operating at a loss right now. 

 

 

*As an example, the last startup I worked for lived off of Venture Capital and the founders own money for close to 3 years before turning their first profitable month. They've still got a ways to go to get the point where you can say it was a net success for the investors, but they're in the black now and revenue, at least when I left, was growing very quickly.

[LinusTech]

To those imagining that Vessel is going to disappear and that no one is watching over there need only look at the engagement on our Vessel videos.. Considering we've been with the platform for less than 6 months those are some damn impressive numbers..

Vessel doesn't share view numbers publicly for whatever reason (that's their choice and I respect it) but what I can say is this: there are a LOT more people watching on Vessel than most of you realize.

Are most of them free viewers?

Probably.

Does that mean that they will never become paying customers?

Not at all.

I think it was Dropbox that said it takes an average of 6 years to convert a free user base into a paying one or something along those lines.. So if that's the kind of timeline Vessel is quoting their investors they've got lots of time.

Will they ultimately succeed? I don't know.. But until the cheques start bouncing I'm contractually obligated to support the platform so we shall see how it goes.

[Timmyfox]

I'm on my phone so pardon my brevity, but we chose to do exclusive releases on a few product launches recently because for two of them we were already late (even the Vessel release) anyway so we figured anyone desperate to know how that product performs can watch or read one of the other 100 reviews of it in the meantime..

And for Fury Nano because (as some hard noticed) we've burned a lot of simulaneous release days lately (something that upsets our vessel viewers who are paying for early access) and our release schedule is SCREWED right now (as some of you have noticed) with some video delayed on YouTube by another week because of show coverage.

That's pretty much all there is to it. There are a limited number of simulaneous release slots we get and we have to decide how to best allocate them.

 

First of all - Thanks Linus for the clarification on this issue. I would perhaps have liked just some notice like maybe a simple tweet to give a heads up to your followers (just something, perhaps as a followup to the tweet linked in the OP, along the lines of "In case someone's wondering: Video scheduling is rather messed up right now so expect a few delays here and there" would probably have addressed most of these concerns) instead of essentially complete silence.

 

Either way around, my concerns are now cleared out and I respect these decisions as I'm sure you know best how to run your channel (and business!)

 

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And then on a lighter note, congratulations on the sign at the front of the office, it really ended up looking pretty dang good!

[nicklmg]

First of all - Thanks Linus for the clarification on this issue. I would perhaps have liked just some notice like maybe a simple tweet to give a heads up to your followers (just something, perhaps as a followup to the tweet linked in the OP, along the lines of "In case someone's wondering: Video scheduling is rather messed up right now so expect a few delays here and there" would probably have addressed most of these concerns) instead of essentially complete silence.

 

Either way around, my concerns are now cleared out and I respect these decisions as I'm sure you know best how to run your channel (and business!)

 

---

And then on a lighter note, congratulations on the sign at the front of the office, it really ended up looking pretty dang good!

Thanks for bringing well thought-out questions, and thanks for caring enough to ask them