Windows 10 proven to spy on users, regardless of settings or system tweaks.

[iwasaperson]

Unsupported claims from untrustworthy news sources do not constitute news.

 

Moved to Operating Systems and Software.

I have replaced the source with the Ars Technica article. Can you move it back?

[LAwLz]

So what you are telling me then is that you came into this discussion with a predisposed bias, whereas I and many others have checked the source and questioned it's credibility.

That still puts you in a bad position in respects to this thread.

Ehm... What? It sounds like you haven't read my posts at all and wants me to be biased. I am not.

 

Here is my post again since you apparently didn't read it:

Haven't read this thread or the article yet but let me guess, the Microsoft Defense Force is saying:

1) Only criminals need privacy. You got nothing to fear if you got nothing to hide.

2) Other companies such as Google does this too so therefore it is totally okay for Microsoft to do it.

3) The source isn't good enough. I saw something about 35MB being sent when you plug in a webcam as a claim and I am sure they will go "oh but it's encrypted so we don't know what data it is, so therefore you can't say that they are spying!", as if sending big amounts of data when you plug in a camera isn't evidence enough on its own, and hiding what data is being sent only further incriminates them.

 

 

With that being said, don't take things written on the Internet as facts without looking into them for yourself. It could be bullshit, but just dismissing it outright because you don't like the source is foolish. You don't sit down waiting in a theater when someone shouts "FIRE FIRE!", demanding that a certified fireman examine the fire to validate that the building is indeed on fire.

 

I listed the 3 fallacies that always gets brought up whenever someone claims Microsoft are spying on their users. I listed them not because I think the claims in the OP were correct, but because they are horrible arguments which somehow always makes their way into the conversation when no rational person should ever have any thoughts like them to begin with.

 

Then when I had listed those 3 bullshit arguments I went on to say that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the Internet, and the claims should be investigated further. They have now been further investigated by reliable sources and they were found to be correct.

 

 

 

 

You can enable Bing search on start menu search basically, that's probably why and you can disable it.

Read the Ars technica article. It doesn't matter if you disable it or not. Microsoft will still collect what you type and send it to their server.

Turning it off doesn't actually turn the data collection part off.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-snip-

 

You can try to dance around the terminology as much as you want; that is still a predisposed bias at the end of the day, whether you want to admit it or not.

[xXChaoticSymphonyXx]

I say let them collect data I've nothing to hide, that's why this post was made via carrier pigeon to a commodore 64 running on MS-DOS and dial up in Antarctica.

[iwasaperson]

I say let them collect data I've nothing to hide, that's why this post was made via carrier pigeon to a commodore 64 running on MS-DOS and dial up in Antarctica.

Then why don't you make a thread on the Off-Topic forum with all of your personal information? Make sure to include pictures of you showering, sleeping, watching porn, etc.

 

If you don't, then I think that's sufficient proof that you do have something to hide.

[Accursed Entity]

I say let them collect data I've nothing to hide, that's why this post was made via carrier pigeon to a commodore 64 running on MS-DOS and dial up in Antarctica.

 

Even then you would probably end up being spied on.

[Stuff_]

Then why don't you make a thread on the Off-Topic forum with all of your personal information? Make sure to include pictures of you showering, sleeping, watching porn, etc.

 

If you don't, then I think that's sufficient proof that you do have something to hide.

Microsoft is collecting images of me showering, sleeping, and watching porn? And handing it out to the public?

Whoa, yeah I might leave Windows 10 now.

[Trik'Stari]

 

You can try to dance around the terminology as much as you want; that is still a predisposed bias at the end of the day, whether you want to admit it or not.

The following statements:

 

"Saying that "I have nothing to fear because I'm not doing anything wrong" is an illogical statement"

" "Other companies and governments do it to, so it's okay" doesn't make it okay" "

 

Are opinions, not bias.

 

As for whether or not the source is valid.

 

From what I've read

Also, I might as well say that everyone is right for doubting these claims. The original author didn't provide any specifics or reproduce-able tests, probably to try keeping people from proving he's full of shit if these claims are false and he's just scaremongering, so I'd rather wait until more verifiable results come out and for Microsoft's official word on the issue. Also, I'm pretty sure you'd notice 80MB of data being uploaded to MS every 15 minutes, especially if you have a slower connection, like most rural parts of the United States or the entirety of Australia, or have data caps. Or, worst case scenario, both.

 

Not that Microsoft's gained any trust, but we saw what happened with the Xbox One. People hated the console as it originally was. Microsoft listened and did a complete 180. Same thing with Windows XP, people hated that OS until SP2 launched in 2004, three years after the initial release. There's nothing saying MS won't do that again.

did anyone go check out the original article?

 

all transfers of data to Microsoft servers are encrypted and not without some deeper reverse engineering can figure out what's actually sent.

 

The only legitimate thing in there, that is factual, is "we don't know what's actually being sent". Other than that, all I see is people maligning a news source based on their own opinions, which is even more ridiculous considering that the claims were verified by other sources.

 

Yes, that website might be the European equivalent to infowars (which even I find to be a somewhat ridiculous website, considering my own biases), but guess what? It doesn't matter, because their information was backed up by information from other websites.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/aug/13/windows-10-sends-identifiable-data-microsoft-despite-privacy-settings

 

Yes, the original source used in the original post of this thread may have come from an unreliable website similar to inforwars, fox news, cnn, or msnbc, but even a broken clock can still be correct on occasion. The simple facts are this.

 

The original claims have been verified by ars technica

We don't know what information is being sent

We don't know how well that information is being secured

We don't have ANY CONTROL WHAT-SO-EVER over what Microsoft does with that data.

And in all likelihood, Microsoft probably has something in the EULA that exempts them from liability, should your data be compromised. Meaning you have no legal recourse.

 

That last one is the main problem I have with all of this. Yes, MS might only be using your data for advertising purposes, no surprises there. What's concerning is WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE ELSE GETS A HOLD OF IT. You have no way of knowing what was lost or compromised, nor do you have the right to take MS to court over it, should any financial or social harm come to you (identity theft).

[LAwLz]

 You can try to dance around the terminology as much as you want; that is still a predisposed bias at the end of the day, whether you want to admit it or not.

How is it a "predisposed bias"? All I did was comment on what I thought other peoples' reactions would be, without taking side on the actual content of any posts.

If I open an Apple thread and go "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", does that mean I am biased towards Apple too? It doesn't make any sense.

 

In order for my post to be biased I would have to have picked side, but I didn't.

You're talking nonsense right now because you want me to be biased, but I am not. I even said in my post that you shouldn't blindly trust what you read on the Internet, and should investigate it yourself. That's as unbiased as you can possibly be.

I mean come on... How can I be biased when I didn't pick a side in my original post? That's a prerequirement to being biased. To actually have picked a side. You can't be biased in that you are neutral until we have valid evidence to support either side.

[xXChaoticSymphonyXx]

Even then you would probably end up being spied on.

It's so they can customize ads for the best deals on winter clothing and whale blubber though.

[xXChaoticSymphonyXx]

Then why don't you make a thread on the Off-Topic forum with all of your personal information? Make sure to include pictures of you showering, sleeping, watching porn, etc.

 

If you don't, then I think that's sufficient proof that you do have something to hide.

 

Trust me, NO ONE wants me to do that. lol 

 

 

... and now I feel sorry for the Microsoft worker assigned to me.

[Stuff_]

The original claims have been verified by ars technica

We don't know what information is being sent

We don't know how well that information is being secured

We don't have ANY CONTROL WHAT-SO-EVER over what Microsoft does with that data.

And in all likelihood, Microsoft probably has something in the EULA that exempts them from liability, should your data be compromised. Meaning you have no legal recourse.

 

That last one is the main problem I have with all of this. Yes, MS might only be using your data for advertising purposes, no surprises there. What's concerning is WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE ELSE GETS A HOLD OF IT. You have no way of knowing what was lost or compromised, nor do you have the right to take MS to court over it, should any financial or social harm come to you (identity theft).

The claims are stuff is being sent, but we don't know what. It is quite obvious that MS is going to do that. 

If it turns out they are storing your creditcards, then there's an issue.

They know what type of information you are typing. They have filters that know you typed a DOB, CC, SSN, etc. I'm on the side that is doubting that they actually store that specific information. 

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

How is it a "predisposed bias"? All I did was comment on what I thought other peoples' reactions would be, without taking side on the actual content of any posts.

If I open an Apple thread and go "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", does that mean I am biased towards Apple too? It doesn't make any sense.

 

In order for my post to be biased I would have to have picked side, but I didn't.

You're talking nonsense right now because you want me to be biased, but I am not. I even said in my post that you shouldn't blindly trust what you read on the Internet, and should investigate it yourself. That's as unbiased as you can possibly be.

 

Don't be dense.

 

When you make the statement that "let me guess... XXX is just doing YYY", you are coming in with an assumption, which is what a predisposed bias is in a nutshell.

 

When you say "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", you are approaching the matter from the strongly optimistic perspective. With it, when you say the equivalent for the "Microsoft Defence Force", you are taking a strongly pessimistic view on the matter of discussion.

 

You can make the claim of reviewing the sources for yourself, but when the first comment made is of the above, it does not do a lot of good.

[patrick3027]

Because it's linux and you can do whatever you want with it, including removing that spyware.

Yes, that's the difference between Ubuntu and Windows : when you disable the Internet search results in Ubuntu, there's no data being transferred to some random server. It seems it's not the case with Windows 10. Also the 'spying feature' in Ubuntu will be removed when Unity 8 launches (16.04 probably).

Since the OP complies with the rules regarding tech news now, I think it should be switched back.

[Trik'Stari]

The claims are stuff is being sent, but we don't know what. It is quite obvious that MS is going to do that. 

If it turns out they are storing your creditcards, then there's an issue.

They know what type of information you are typing. They have filters that know you typed a DOB, CC, SSN, etc. I'm on the side that is doubting that they actually store that specific information. 

I did point out that we don't know what is being sent, saved, stored, or used. Which is one of the larger problems here.

 

There is a possibility, in my mind, that they are collecting and storing financial information. For what purpose you might ask? Simple, marketing. Why advertise a product to someone that can't afford it, when you could collect data and maybe advertise something they can afford.

 

Pure speculation of course, but still, I think it's possible. If I remember correctly, there was a news article about another company doing something similar a while back, I want to say it was google, but I can't remember for sure and I'm not finding it anywhere.

 

 

Yes, that's the difference between Ubuntu and Windows : when you disable the Internet search results in Ubuntu, there's no data being transferred to some random server. It seems it's not the case with Windows 10. Also the 'spying feature' in Ubuntu will be removed when Unity 8 launches (16.04 probably).

Since the OP complies with the rules regarding tech news now, I think it should be switched back.

 

I wouldn't count on it. A mod would have to go through and clean this thread entirely of all the crap that's in it. Too much work to be worthwhile.

[iwasaperson]

Yes, that's the difference between Ubuntu and Windows : when you disable the Internet search results in Ubuntu, there's no data being transferred to some random server. It seems it's not the case with Windows 10. Also the 'spying feature' in Ubuntu will be removed when Unity 8 launches (16.04 probably).

Since the OP complies with the rules regarding tech news now, I think it should be switched back.

I already quoted both @GoodBytes and Blade of Grass (no idea how to mention someone with spaces) about this.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

-snip-

 

Making a remark about the "Microsoft Defence Force" is predisposed bias, as explained earlier, as it demonstrates that you have arrived at a topic with an assumption.

 

Also, you seem to miss the key point of why the original OP source was irrelevant. We can agree that the information on the original source is incoherent. But here is the thing, the newer citations prove the very general point of the source article, not the source article itself nor the specifics behind it. If you want to now write this up in a technical document, you could include the ArsTechnica source, but putting in the original makes no sense at all as it by itself is still not verified.

 

To repeat; this is documentation 101. Considering the field of study that you are currently taking, you should have known better.

[patrick3027]

I already quoted both @GoodBytes and Blade of Grass (no idea how to mention someone with spaces) about this.

I also find it funny people are criticizing you for talking about Linux in the OP ("Linux fanboys everywhere" and stuff like that).

The rules regarding tech news clearly reads "tell the reader why it is relevant to them, and what your personal opinion on the topic is." which is exactly what you've done.

[allindaze]

Saying that you don't care that you're being spied on and your privacy is invaded because you have nothing to hide is the same as saying you don't care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

[iwasaperson]

I wouldn't count on it. A mod would have to go through and clean this thread entirely of all the crap that's in it. Too much work to be worthwhile.

This deserves to be news. The only other option is for someone else to post it in the News forum, but that would be a repost.

 

This thread was moved because the source was unreliable. I have since changed the source, so now it has no reason to not be in the News section.

[iwasaperson]

Saying that you don't care that you're being spied on and your privacy is invaded because you have nothing to hide is the same as saying you don't care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

Direct quote from Snowden. I like it.

 

 

I also find it funny people are criticizing you for talking about Linux in the OP ("Linux fanboys everywhere" and stuff like that).

The rules regarding tech news clearly reads "tell the reader why it is relevant to them, and what your personal opinion on the topic is." which is exactly what you've done.

That's exactly why I put it there. Removing it would be breaking the rules.

[christianled59]

Pure speculation of course, but still, I think it's possible. If I remember correctly, there was a news article about another company doing something similar a while back, I want to say it was google, but I can't remember for sure and I'm not finding it anywhere.

Youre thinking of Apple. Apple pay apparently tracks purchases and advertises things you can afford.

[LAwLz]

Don't be dense.

 

When you make the statement that "let me guess... XXX is just doing YYY", you are coming in with an assumption, which is what a predisposed bias is in a nutshell.

 

When you say "let me guess... The first 3 pages are just people hating on Apple for things which are unrelated to the actual news", you are approaching the matter from the strongly optimistic perspective. With it, when you say the equivalent for the "Microsoft Defence Force", you are taking a strongly pessimistic view on the matter of discussion.

 

You can make the claim of reviewing the sources for yourself, but when the first comment made is of the above, it does not do a lot of good.

No... It's not predisposed bias in a nutshell. You got the predisposed part right, but the bias part is just wrong. In order to be biased you have to have picked side, which I did not do in my post. It is obvious that I didn't pick side in my post because I told everyone to not trust the source, and encouraged people to took into it for themselves.

How is it optimistic to assume that people are bashing a company, and how is it pessimistic to assume that people are defending a company? Isn't it the other way around? A pessimist would assume that everyone hates on something?

 

What do you mean the first comment? My first comment critized people on both sides, without me picking a side of my own. I told the Microsoft defence force to not use logical fallacies and red herrings, and I also told people on the opposite side to not just assume that the source OP quoted was actually telling the truth. I did both of these things in the same post, which was my first post.

Why are you only upset about the part where I tell the pro Microsoft side to use logic and reason when defending them, but you're totally okay with me telling the anti-Microsoft side to do the same?

 

I am not biased for or against Microsoft so please stop saying that I am. My first post was completely neutral since I did not pick a side. My other posts have been against Microsoft but that's because we now have additional information proving that they are up to no good.

[Guest]

For any who wants the key logger disabled. 

(Do each line separate)

(Input in CMD as admin) 

 

sc delete DiagTrack

 

sc delete dmwappushservice

 

echo "" > C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Diagnosis\ETLLogs\AutoLogger\AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl

 

reg add "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DataCollection" /v AllowTelemetry /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f    <-- Change the value in the registry, this doesn't stick if done from CMD. 

 

Source with other stuff

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3f38ed/guide_how_to_disable_data_logging_in_w10

[iwasaperson]

For any who wants the key logger disabled. 

(Do each line separate)

(Input in CMD as admin) 

 

sc delete DiagTrack

 

sc delete dmwappushservice

 

echo "" > C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Diagnosis\ETLLogs\AutoLogger\AutoLogger-Diagtrack-Listener.etl

 

reg add "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\DataCollection" /v AllowTelemetry /t REG_DWORD /d 0 /f

The Ars article tells us that Microsoft ignores privacy settings in the menu. What tells us that they won't also ignore Registry edits and file edits/deletions?