Windows 10 proven to spy on users, regardless of settings or system tweaks.

[Guest]

The Ars article tells us that Microsoft ignores privacy settings in the menu. What tells us that they won't also ignore Registry edits and file edits/deletions?

Your free to think what you want, but the key logger stops reporting when you do this.  

[iwasaperson]

Your free to think what you want, but the key logger stops reporting when you do this.

Proof? I'd like to see that it does.

 

How do you stop the rest of the telementry/tracking then?

[Guest]

Proof? I'd like to see that it does.

 

How do you stop the rest of the telementry/tracking then?

I have no idea how to stop the rest, I'm looking for fixes The key logger has been a thing since the preview and the same fix still works. I'ma update my original post if I find something. 

[LAwLz]

The Ars article tells us that Microsoft ignores privacy settings in the menu. What tells us that they won't also ignore Registry edits and file edits/deletions?

I doubt doing those changes will increase the amount of spying Microsoft does you so it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

Don't expect it to work forever though. Microsoft can at any moment decide to push out a forced update which disables that registry fix. So far it doesn't seem like they have though.

[MageTank]

Keeping my hands clean, i just want to reiterate that news sites copy and pasting results from one source (the guardian and the other websites using Ars as the source) does not count as "multiple sources". It just means multiple news outlets are making a story based on one person or groups findings. 

 

Now, i am not saying that the Ars article is wrong, but people claiming more than one source when its from the same source is not going to get us any closer to validation.

 

At this point, we all have to agree that MS is collecting information. This was proven 2 weeks ago by @LAwLz in a well written post on this forum. The extent of their collection, along with the methods of collecting were a mystery back then. Now we are seeing information that is leading us to the "how", but we still do not know the "what" or "why". 

 

The war in this thread is running in circles, and its not going to get those previous questions answered. There will be two sides to this "scandal". Those who are willing to sacrifice privacy for "features" and those who value privacy above all else. Regardless of which side you stand on, all sides must agree that when you specifically tell something not to collect your data, and it does it anyways, that it is a problem.

[Jgeorge610]

So can they still spy on me if I download movies using torrents even though I'm using a vpn?

yes vpn only stops ur internet traffic getting tracked but cus there tracking straight from within windows which the vpn software runs on it bypasses it so you can still be watch/tracked if this makes sense to you

[AlwaysFSX]

Google "Windows 10 spying" then. Get your own sources.

 

I'm not going to continue to run after people trying to discredit me.

 

Also you didn't read the second half of my post.

Uhh, no. Not how debating works. I'm questioning the integrity of YOUR information. Should be YOUR job to provide valid evidence otherwise it holds as much water as a strainer. So far people have screamed a lot of bullshit but given no actual evidence. Until then you're all just children screaming.

[Stuff_]

yes vpn only stops ur internet traffic getting tracked but cus there tracking straight from within windows which the vpn software runs on it bypasses it so you can still be watch/tracked if this makes sense to you

The answer to his question is not able to be answered with a yes or no.

Microsoft isn't looking to see what you are downloading. Your ISP is doing that. Since MS is looking towards the advertising game, they will see what you are buying and browsing on Bing, but they aren't collecting your entire HDD and trying to check if you have illegally downloaded it or not.

[Dabombinable]

But what about Ubuntu? That sends your searches to Amazon and returns Amazon results along with your files and applications.

Ignore Ubuntu, just use another Debian based distro (Debian iteslf is a pain in the ass to actually get working with newer Nvidia cards since the driver for it is still 340. My GTX 650ti works under it but not my GTX 970)

[LAwLz]

So can they still spy on me if I download movies using torrents even though I'm using a vpn?

Yes, because they spy on you before the encryption is applied, and after the encryption is removed.

We don't know if they are looking at what you download yet though, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it and a VPN won't protect you if they do.

[Trik'Stari]

Uhh, no. Not how debating works. I'm questioning the integrity of YOUR information. Should be YOUR job to provide valid evidence otherwise it holds as much water as a strainer. So far people have screamed a lot of bullshit but given no actual evidence. Until then you're all just children screaming.

Questioning someones claim does not exclude you from giving evidence of your own. In fact questioning their claim without providing any evidence to refute their claim, is about as good as their claim in the first place.

 

For example:

Me: I have a single GTX 970 overclocked and I can run at 4k 60hz on ultra settings in crysis 3

AlwaysFSX: That's impossible, show us a video capture of this happening

 

Compared with

 

Me: I have a single GTX 970 overclocked and I can run at 4k 60hz on ultra settings in crysis 3

AlwaysFSX: Here's a video of the same Overclocked GTX 970 running at 4k, showing that it cannot run anywhere near that kind of performance. You're full of sh*t (which is how I would expect him or anyone to respond to such a claim lol)

 

 

See the difference? Granted, it's not a perfect analogy to this specific situation.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Questioning someones claim does not exclude you from giving evidence of your own. In fact questioning their claim without providing and evidence to refute their claim, is about as good as their claim in the first place.

 

Read up on the burden of proof, then come back to us.

[vlado88]

Okay...even if we assume the source is legit and W10 is spying on me, can someone please explain to me why should I even care about it?

I mean... I've turned off everything in the privacy options when installing, I don't have Microsoft account, I didn't even give them my email. So even if it is spying on me, what data can it collect about me that either Google/Facebook/my internet provider/etc. doesn't already have?

 

Don't get me wrong, I know privacy is important and I do agree these options should be turned off by default. But its not like MS is selling my private photos to some creep in the dark web. I don't see how this data being collected can be used against me in any way.

[Trik'Stari]

Read up on the burden of proof, then come back to us.

Read my example. Also

From Wikipedia:

"Burden of proof is also an important concept in the public arena of ideas. Once participants in discourse establish common assumptions, the mechanism of burden of proof helps to ensure that all parties contribute productively, using relevant arguments"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

 

This isn't a courtroom, the burden of proof isn't only on the "accuser"

[Stuff_]

-snip-

It's not the job of the person asking the questions to prove anything. It's your job to make sure your proof actually holds up.

 

Okay...even if we assume the source is legit and W10 is spying on me, can someone please explain to me why should I even care about it?

I mean... I've turned off everything in the privacy options when installing, I don't have Microsoft account, I didn't even give them my email. So even if it is spying on me, what data can it collect about me that either Google/Facebook/my internet provider/etc. doesn't already have?

 

Don't get me wrong, I know privacy is important and I do agree these options should be turned off by default. But its not like MS is selling my private photos to some creep in the dark web. I don't see how this data being collected can be used against me in any way.

They would be collecting the exact same data that Google and Facebook collect. They want to use it for advertising of their own, to increase revenue. People are really freaking out about absolutely nothing. At least nothing currently, as there's no proof that the data they are taking is anything different than advertising data.

[Trik'Stari]

It's not the job of the person asking the questions to prove anything. It's your job to make sure your proof actually holds up.

 

They would be collecting the exact same data that Google and Facebook collect. They want to use it for advertising of their own, to increase revenue. People are really freaking out about absolutely nothing. At least nothing currently, as there's no proof that the data they are taking is anything different than advertising data.

Proof has been provided by others (ars technica). I was simply pointing out that you can't scream burden of proof and then claim you don't have the same obligation. Which as I just pointed out, is the case here. As I said, this isn't a courtroom.

 

Also, I would point out again that we aren't freaking out about MS using data for advertising, we are freaking out because of the way it's being done, as well as being done in a way that leaves us (and you) in a bad position. The MS servers got hacked and your information got stolen and someone stole all the money out of your bank account? Too bad, you signed the EULA, and MS isn't liable for that.

[Stuff_]

Proof has been provided by others (ars technica). I was simply pointing out that you can't scream burden of proof and then claim you don't have the same obligation. Which as I just pointed out, is the case here. As I said, this isn't a courtroom.

Ars technica has only given theories, suchas:

 

 

This server seems to be used for OneDrive and some other Microsoft services  

[mr moose]

Ars technica has only given theories, suchas:

 

Ars technica contacted MS and have done some in-depth testing of win ten themselves, they have this to say:

 

We've asked Microsoft if there is any way to disable this additional communication or information about what its purpose is. We were told "As part of delivering Windows 10 as a service, updates may be delivered to provide ongoing new features to Bing search, such as new visual layouts, styles and search code. No query or search usage data is sent to Microsoft, in accordance with the customer's chosen privacy settings. This also applies to searching offline for items such as apps, files and settings on the device." This is consistent with what we saw (there is no query or search data transmitted), but also likely to run counter to most people's expectations; if Web searching and Cortana are disabled, we suspect that the inference that most people would make is that searching the Start menu wouldn't hit the Internet at all. But it does. The traffic could be innocuous, but the inclusion of a machine ID gives it a suspicious appearance.

 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/even-when-told-not-to-windows-10-just-cant-stop-talking-to-microsoft/

 

Obviously people will read into it what they want and that won't change anything.    Let's not forget that ar's aren't the only ones having a close look at this.

[AlwaysFSX]

Questioning someones claim does not exclude you from giving evidence of your own. In fact questioning their claim without providing any evidence to refute their claim, is about as good as their claim in the first place.

For example:

Me: I have a single GTX 970 overclocked and I can run at 4k 60hz on ultra settings in crysis 3

AlwaysFSX: That's impossible, show us a video capture of this happening

Compared with

Me: I have a single GTX 970 overclocked and I can run at 4k 60hz on ultra settings in crysis 3

AlwaysFSX: Here's a video of the same Overclocked GTX 970 running at 4k, showing that it cannot run anywhere near that kind of performance. You're full of sh*t (which is how I would expect him or anyone to respond to such a claim lol)

See the difference? Granted, it's not a perfect analogy to this specific situation.

..no

Several others have given enough points that you can't show whether or not the OS is sending personal information. Until one of you shows hard evidence of the data being transmitted by your computer and where it's going this is a lot of baseless paranoia.

[Stuff_]

..no

Several others have given enough points that you can't show whether or not the OS is sending personal information. Until one of you asked hard evidence of the data being transmitted by your computer and where it's going this is a lot of baseless paranoia.

Earlier someone in this thread simply said that they will assume that MS is capturing credit card information.

Extremely bold claim.

 

I have no idea what is going on with the internet right now. Microsoft decides to pull some information from you, for ADVERTISING, just like Google. Just like Facebook, Amazon, Apple and everyone. But once Microsoft gives it a go, everyone cries. 

 

If only there was a real way to actually SEE all the data that is captured when you have NO IDEA. Those same people would shit themselves.

[AlwaysFSX]

Earlier someone in this thread simply said that they will assume that MS is capturing credit card information.

Extremely bold claim.

 

I have no idea what is going on with the internet right now. Microsoft decides to pull some information from you, for ADVERTISING, just like Google. Just like Facebook, Amazon, Apple and everyone. But once Microsoft gives it a go, everyone cries. 

 

If only there was a real way to actually SEE all the data that is captured when you have NO IDEA. Those same people would shit themselves.

There is, it's called packet sniffing. :mellow:

[mr moose]

..no

Several others have given enough points that you can't show whether or not the OS is sending personal information. Until one of you asked hard evidence of the data being transmitted by your computer and where it's going this is a lot of baseless paranoia.

 

I often imagine if LTT was standing at a train station and a train with blacked out windows left the station,  how many would argue they knew exactly what was on board based solely on the evidence they saw the train leave the station.  

 

 

 

If only there was a real way to actually SEE all the data that is captured when you have NO IDEA. Those same people would shit themselves.

 

MS have a program where governments can view the entirety of the windows source code (the russian's and french governments are signed up).   Also any large research corporation (think, lockheed martin, pharmaceuticals,  defense etc) have teams of people pouring over every detail of their ITC system (including the packets that are sent and where they are sent from each desktop).

[Stuff_]

There is, it's called packet sniffing. :mellow:

You misunderstood what I meant. I mean not what is currently being grabbed, but stuff that has been grabbed while you weren't paying attention.

[Stuff_]

 

MS have a program where governments can view the entirety of the windows source code (the russian's and french governments are signed up).   Also any large research corporation (think, lockheed martin, pharmaceuticals,  defense etc) have teams of people pouring over every detail of their ITC system (including the packets that are sent and where they are sent from each desktop).

Well currently, there are a few components within Windows 10 that are in direct violation of Texas Administrative Code (TAC) and Texas Constitutional law forbidding the use of state resources for commercial purposes. 

So, I would say state governments are also working with Microsoft on these issues (those that have laws forbidding the aforementioned). 

[AlwaysFSX]

You misunderstood what I meant. I mean not what is currently being grabbed, but stuff that has been grabbed while you weren't paying attention.

100% sure you can set one up to record all data being sent and received over a period of time to look at it later.