Windows 10 proven to spy on users, regardless of settings or system tweaks.

[Stuff_]

You are fear mongering. You're implying some really insane allegations.

You imply that BitLocker is compromised. There's no PROOF of this. There is PRISM, but it didn't say they had access through BitLocker.

You imply that Microsoft is grabbing your HDD contents, not just simple data for advertising.

On top of all of that, there's no PROOF of what is being taken.

Yes, you opted out of sending data to Microsoft. Sure, a connection is still happening and your client and the server are talking, but you can't say without an absolute doubt that what is still happening is the transferring of your data. There's no PROOF.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

I have not manipulated anything. I stick to evidence and the truth.

 

Useless argument, as you have yourself proven this false time and time and time again.

 

Well if that's how you feel then I can honestly say I feel the same way when talking to you. Even when handed evidence on a silver plate it gets dismissed without a single thought.

 

I have given these data some thought, but I cannot mask the fact that the conclusions being made is very general and simplistic. I try to find where they are grounded, and I have yet to find much of anything.

 

It is not a "fear-mongering campaign" when we have solid evidence to support the claims. Claims such as:

1) Microsoft are collecting information regardless of user settings.

2) You can't opt-out of the data collection.

3) The traffic is encrypted so we can't tell what data they are collecting, nor will Microsoft tell us the specifics of what is being collected.

 

If you think it's a "fear-mongering campaign" to simply state facts then I'm not sure what to say.

 

Read above. You have apparently missed pages upon pages of people crying for a switch to Linux over some faulty conclusions. I will only say this one more time; nothing has been explicitly proven up to now in regards to the situation with Windows 10. What little we have are very vague assessments which could mean just about anything.

[LAwLz]

Useless argument, as you have yourself proven this false time and time and time again.

Saying that I am wrong doesn't actually make me wrong.

 

 

I have given these data some thought, but I cannot mask the fact that the conclusions being made is very general and simplistic. I try to find where they are grounded, and I have yet to find much of anything.

What conclusions?

 

 

Read above. You have apparently missed pages upon pages of people crying for a switch to Linux over some faulty conclusions. I will only say this one more time; nothing has been explicitly proven up to now in regards to the situation with Windows 10. What little we have are very vague assessments which could mean just about anything.

That happened before I even joined the conversation so don't blame me on that. I haven't even mentioned Linux or other OSes throughout the entire thread.

 

Yes, things actually have been explicitly proven. All 3 things I listed have been explicitly proven to be correct. How you choose to interpret those facts is up to you, but you can't deny that they are true. The fact that these things happens to begin with bothers me, regardless of what info they collect (harmless or not). A lot of people will be okay with it, and a lot won't. That's why I think you should always present the facts as unbiased as possible and then let people decide for themselves. I believe that is what I just did when I listed those 3 things, which are based on undisputable facts.

 

If you are okay with these things going on then fine. That's your opinion and I will let you have that. I won't let you imply that I am lying and spreading FUD when all I am doing is talking about proven facts. That won't help anyone get to the truth and form their own opinions regarding this.

 

 

On a side note, I am using Windows 10 and will continue to use it. I think it's terrible of Microsoft to do this and I think it is very dishonest. I would love to see it stop at once, but I will still continue to use it. It's the exact same stance as I have with Google. The only difference is that when I say something bad about Google I get a pat on the back and everyone agrees, but when I say something bad about Microsoft I get called a tinfoil-hat wearing paranoid liar. That's why you don't see me talk more about Google being horrible. Because nobody disagrees so the discussion don't ever escalate like in this thread.

 

 

 

 

 

You are fear mongering. You're implying some really insane allegations.

You imply that BitLocker is compromised. There's no PROOF of this. There is PRISM, but it didn't say they had access through BitLocker.

You imply that Microsoft is grabbing your HDD contents, not just simple data for advertising.

On top of all of that, there's no PROOF of what is being taken.

Yes, you opted out of sending data to Microsoft. Sure, a connection is still happening and your client and the server are talking, but you can't say without an absolute doubt that what is still happening is the transferring of your data. There's no PROOF.

If you want to argue with me about BitLocker then please do so in the BitLocker thread. Not in this thread.

[Colonel_Gerdauf]

Yes, things actually have been explicitly proven. All 3 things I listed have been explicitly proven to be correct. How you choose to interpret those facts is up to you, but you can't deny that they are true. The fact that these things happens to begin with bothers me, regardless of what info they collect (harmless or not). A lot of people will be okay with it, and a lot won't. That's why I think you should always present the facts as unbiased as possible and then let people decide for themselves. I believe that is what I just did when I listed those 3 things, which are based on undisputable facts.

No they are not. The information itself, sure, but the information, in the words you have put it, is little more than pure hyperbole. You should read over what the others have said, because I am not going to repeat them into a massive post just for you.

If you are okay with these things going on then fine. That's your opinion and I will let you have that. I won't let you imply that I am lying and spreading FUD when all I am doing is talking about proven facts. That won't help anyone get to the truth and form their own opinions regarding this.

This is exactly what I was referring to by faulty conclusions. Strictly speaking, I am not okay with all of these data collection activities; I am particularly "paranoid" when it comes to information security. That is why I had said in that thread I had referenced that protecting your information against a government agency is a completely fruitless effort. It is not about if the likes of the NSA will have you whole life on record, but when. The same thing happens here, except we are getting worried about data getting gathered that could potentially have nothing at all to do with any form of personal information.

And no, I am not implying that you are a liar, as I was explicit about it from the very beginning. To add to that, you are also a charlatan and a false prophet. Considering how you like fancy terminology so much, I doubt you would have any problems with the accusations I am making.

I was able to admit my errors when the errors were cited and explained constructively, whereas you have never done the same.

The only person spreading FUD at the moment is you. Nice try though.

On a side note, I am using Windows 10 and will continue to use it. I think it's terrible of Microsoft to do this and I think it is very dishonest. I would love to see it stop at once, but I will still continue to use it. It's the exact same stance as I have with Google. The only difference is that when I say something bad about Google I get a pat on the back and everyone agrees, but when I say something bad about Microsoft I get called a tinfoil-hat wearing paranoid liar. That's why you don't see me talk more about Google being horrible. Because nobody disagrees so the discussion don't ever escalate like in this thread.

So you bitterly hate Microsoft for supposedly nabbing your deepest, most personal data in Windows 10, and yet you are actively using it, despite the potential alternatives. I could not even begin with how little sense that makes. You know about this, right?

Gerdauf's Law:

Each and every human being, without exception, is the direct carbon copy of the types of people that he/she bitterly opposes.

I am not sure if you are hard at reading, but that comparison about Google is rather backwards. I have seen you in multiple instances taking a position towards Google, and then randomly throwing in "I hate Google for this" to mask your bias. And yes, you are biased, through and through, whether you want to admit it or not. You were, and still are, astonishingly stubborn about these types of discussions.

[JoshB2084]

Why not unplug internet line then do tweaking Windows 10 then plug it back in?

[Sharp_3yE]

Security Analyst. Help manage patching of the servers, and work with the firewall and networking team to ensure the data of people is as secure as possible. 

 

You wouldn't believe the amount of angler exploits people on the network get. At least 5-10 a day.

 

 

Just a thought, since we don't know exactly what is being sent, perhaps it's sending some data telling the MS servers that this particular user has opted out? Ars Technica needs to do a persistent test. Check to see if it's constantly sending data after you turn it off. From what I see from the article, after they disable it all, it still sent some stuff.

 

But would it eventually stop? I mean, none of us know the way Microsoft programmed the system, so who knows what it's doing (for now).

That's pretty awesome man.

 

I do know one thing about this. Cortana web search can't be turned off. So of course Cortana is still connecting to Microsoft servers.

 

I agree. We don't know why they are communication. I would love to see some tests done on windows 8.1 or even 7 with some of this stuff. We don't know why it's communicating we just know that it is. It could be checking something or figuring out something. We don't know if it's still sharing the info that is turned off.

[Dabombinable]

I did not claim it was false.  I'm simply saying the burden of proof has not been met.  There could be merit to these concerns, but so far, all that is known for sure is that Microsoft is connecting to some of its own servers even when these settings are disabled.  These servers, according to the Ars Technica article posted, appear to be requesting fairly innocuous data.  That is the only thing that is known for certain.  Anything else is speculation based upon unknown variables.  Can we agree on that?

The burden of proof goes both ways, the person making a claim and the person denying it both need to show evidence. Where is the evidence against Windows 10 spying on users?

[LAwLz]

No they are not. The information itself, sure, but the information, in the words you have put it, is little more than pure hyperbole. You should read over what the others have said, because I am not going to repeat them into a massive post just for you.

There is nothing hyperbole about the way I listed those 3 facts.

 

1) Microsoft are collecting information regardless of user settings.

2) You can't opt-out of the data collection.

3) The traffic is encrypted so we can't tell what data they are collecting, nor will Microsoft tell us the specifics of what is being collected.

 

If you think something is factually wrong then go ahead and prove it wrong. Because that's all that matters here. Facts.

 

 

This is exactly what I was referring to by faulty conclusions. Strictly speaking, I am not okay with all of these data collection activities; I am particularly "paranoid" when it comes to information security. That is why I had said in that thread I had referenced that protecting your information against a government agency is a completely fruitless effort. It is not about if the likes of the NSA will have you whole life on record, but when. The same thing happens here, except we are getting worried about data getting gathered that could potentially have nothing at all to do with any form of personal information.

Except it is personal. The ars article clearly says that your unique machine ID is being sent along with other data such as your searches. If that's not personal information then I don't know what is.

I don't get your argument. Please correct me if I am wrong because I might very well be interpreting you the wrong way. You are saying that we should just give up when it comes to privacy, because you believe the NSA will in the end have records of everything you do. Is that correct? Even if that ends up being true (we don't know yet) it still doesn't give other companies excuses to also gather data in my opinion.

To me that sounds like someone arguing that we shouldn't lock our front doors, because thieves will just find other ways inside. Why not try to minimize the damage as much as possible?

 

 

 

Going to ignore all your personal attacks because it is getting ridiculous.

 

 

I was able to admit my errors when the errors were cited and explained constructively, whereas you have never done the same.

What? Are you talking about this thread or in general? If you're talking about this thread then why should I admit to any errors when I haven't made any? If you mean in general then you're wrong. I have admitted to being wrong plenty of times.

 

 

So you bitterly hate Microsoft for supposedly nabbing your deepest, most personal data in Windows 10, and yet you are actively using it, despite the potential alternatives. I could not even begin with how little sense that makes. You know about this, right?

Nice strawman.

1) Never said Microsoft were "nabbing my deepest, most personal data in Windows 10".

2) Never said I hate Microsoft.

3) Never said I hate Windows 10.

 

What you just said only makes no sense if you assume the 3 things listed above are correct, which they aren't. I don't think there are any potential alternatives for my usage either.

 

If you want to hear my opinion on Windows 10 then here it is:

I really like it. Lots of improvements and I really don't want to go through the hassle of moving to another version of Windows again (took me well above 10 hours to change). I dislike some things in Windows 10 a lot though, such as the spying and the ads.

 

The only reason why you see so many negative posts from me about Windows 10 is because pretty much all news threads about it have been about those 2 things I just said I dislike about it. On top of that, those are the only things people argue against me when I bring up. If I were to list 20 good things and 2 bad things I am sure the rest of the thread would be people telling me how I am wrong about those 2 things, and how I am a liar, or is trying to spread FUD, or whatever other personal attacks people can come up with.

So there is your explanation for that. Make a thread along the lines of "What are your top 10 features in Windows 10" and I will happily list a bunch of awesome stuff in Windows 10 (if I end up seeing it).

 

 

I am not sure if you are hard at reading, but that comparison about Google is rather backwards. I have seen you in multiple instances taking a position towards Google, and then randomly throwing in "I hate Google for this" to mask your bias. And yes, you are biased, through and through, whether you want to admit it or not. You were, and still are, astonishingly stubborn about these types of discussions.

I don't think the comparison to Google is backwards, and I think you are misunderstanding why I throw in "I hate Google". It's not to mask some bias.

I think we should only give credit when a company has earned it, and only give shit when a company deserves it. A lot of times when I "defend" Google it's because I think people are giving them shit for the wrong reasons. I throw in "I hate Google" because I want to convey the message that I do not approve of some of the things Google does, but I think the person I am responding to are hating on them for the wrong reasons.

 

 

 

If you are going to respond to me again then please don't include a bunch of personal attacks. Can we just stick to debating facts from now on? The last couple of pages has basically been you throwing personal insult after personal insult without debating what the thread is actually about, and me defending myself.

I would much rather debate the findings of the Ars Technica article.

[Whaler_99]

I think this one has run it's course...