So-called "next-gen" consoles emulated on our modern PCs?

[Dravic]

I'm thinking. Would it be considered wrong to buy console exclusive games, for xbone and ps4, and use an emulator to play them?

Would that be justified?

I really hate exclusive games. I don't see how they can be good for a company. Reduce the number of potential customers.

 

I personally don't see any reason to buy exclusive games and emulate them upon purchase. Why? Cuz pricing is pure ripoff. Steam sales all the way.

 

And mind you im talking about nextgens. Older games are out of market anyway so even bigger no brainer.

[qwertywarrior]

USE the search function

emulation WONT happen on x86 look at the first xbox

i already made a thread about this !!!

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/26410-emulating-ps4-and-xbox-one-games/

[Ineko]

It's not going to be emulated in the near future. A few years maybe, but definitely not weeks or months.

[Phillyphries]

lol would be dope if we could mod our own multiplayer servers on there so we could take them online :lol:

[Dravic]

I'm more than optimistic looking how hardware is so similiar to PC. The APUs are coming to PC, remember? we will learn a lot more about them in 2014. At worst we will be able to play those games on APUs <facepalm>.

[Whiskers]

Like people said, emulation won't happen for a while.

 

The original Xbox used an x86 architecture and yet there is no functional emulation program available. Just because the consoles are x86 like a PC does not mean they function identically - hardware quirks, different instruction sets, specialised drivers, PSN / XBL connected functions or requirements etc.

 

The chances of getting a functioning emulator for them are significantly higher than the Xbox 360 and PS3, but it's nowhere near as easy as people are expecting. 

[TheCanadianGamer16]

well, from what ive seen and heard, the games will be made for PC first, and then ported down to the consoles since they just have to remove a few features for it to work on the next gen.

[Poofu]

fyi ps2 and ps3 emulators do exist you just have to download the bios directly from the machine orrrrrr *cough* pirate bay *cough*

[Whiskers]

well, from what ive seen and heard, the games will be made for PC first, and then ported down to the consoles since they just have to remove a few features for it to work on the next gen.

It is more likely that the reverse will be true most of the time, just as it was last gen. It's much easier to build a game for the weakest platform first then port it to more powerful platforms than it is to build it for the most powerful one then force it to work with the weakest.

Plus, consoles are the more important target for most of the developers. It is where they will sell the majority of their games, after all.

[TheProfosist]

Uh, emulating Xbox One and PS4 will not be possible FOR YEARS.

 

Why? It's the x86 architecture. Just because PC's are x86 doesn't mean it's easier. If it was, then why don't we have Xbox or Xbox 360 emulation? They used x86, so shouldn't they be easier to emulate? No, that's not how it works. We have PS1 and PS2 emulation so far and PS3 is being worked on as we speak, yet there is no site WHATSOEVER for either the original Xbox or Xbox 360.

 

It won't happen for YEARS.

 

http://forums.emulator-zone.com/showthread.php?t=22739

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535575

 

Neither of those used X86.... The X360 is PowerPC and the PS3 was cell. Looking up the PS3 part of the cell was even based on PowerPC.

 

 

 

^ its a powerpc cpu, the instruction set is whack and the time and effort to convert powerpc instruction sets to x86 would be pointless(I THINK this is what I have read)

 

yes it would take a fair bit just look at when Apple switched their macs from PowerPC to X86

[TheProfosist]

USE the search function

emulation WONT happen on x86 look at the first xbox

i already made a thread about this !!!

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/26410-emulating-ps4-and-xbox-one-games/

 

 

Like people said, emulation won't happen for a while.

 

The original Xbox used an x86 architecture and yet there is no functional emulation program available. Just because the consoles are x86 like a PC does not mean they function identically - hardware quirks, different instruction sets, specialised drivers, PSN / XBL connected functions or requirements etc.

 

The chances of getting a functioning emulator for them are significantly higher than the Xbox 360 and PS3, but it's nowhere near as easy as people are expecting. 

 

The only thing I have to say about this is how many games would people really want to emulate that were only available on xbox and is it worth the work to get them? Going from X86 to X86 should be easier because you should be able to run it natively instead of emulate it. i would like to point out this is not me saying it would be easy.

[qwertywarrior]

The only thing I have to say about this is how many games would people really want to emulate that were only available on xbox and is it worth the work to get them? Going from X86 to X86 should be easier because you should be able to run it natively instead of emulate it. i would like to point out this is not me saying it would be easy.

not sure if u read it or not but

Originally Posted by blueshogun96

"Xbox is just like a PC, it's easy to emulate!"

Yes, we've all heard this silly and pointless argument a million times and it usually ends in the same, and rather ignorant conclusion (or should I say assumption) that just because the Xbox is PC similar, it's hardware should be relatively easy to emulate. That's a very wrong frame of mind. How hard can it be? Very. Xbox's hardware is very complex and still poorly documented to this day. This requires some explanation.

1. Is a PC easy to emulate? Well, I wouldn't say so myself. Take a look at the source code from bochs. A lot of source code/work isn't it?

2. Emulating an x86 CPU is a lot harder than it sounds. I don't know where this mindless assumption comes from. Yes, there's loads of documentation on how the x86 processor works, but that doesn't exactly make it easy. First of all, the x86 instruction set is M-A-S-S-I-V-E! There can be at least 20 different versions of one instruction (i.e. There are many different versions of the MOV instruction, as well as INC, DEC, ADD, SUB, SHR, SHL, AND, OR, XOR etc.) and it takes time to implement them all. Of course, that's not exactly difficult. The real problem is that any modern x86 processor including the Pentium III can execute multiple instructions at once. So it's not like emulating a Z80 doing one instruction at a time. The actual algorithm and how x86 does this is undocumented and still unknown. In short, the Xbox's CPU can be emulated, but not accurately.

3. Emulating any hardware by NVIDIA is not a walk in the park! The Xbox's GPU, the NV2A is often assumed just a GeForce 3. It's not! It's similar but not identical. It has some GeForce 4 capabilities too, so it's more of a cross between an NV20 and NV25. This is by no means easy to emulate either. NVIDIA's GPUs have very large register sets and afaik not even half of them have been discovered, and a large portion of known registers have unknown purposes. There is little to no documentation on how NVIDIA GPUs work. The best thing to do is to look at similar GPUs such as RIVA, TNT, and older GeForce cards. Some registers are similar, but not identical. The best place to look for information is in open source drivers available on the net. Adding to the dificulty is that no one has ever discovered how pixel shaders work on NV2x cards, vertex shaders yes though. The Xbox GPU also has exclusive registers that are not found in other GeForce cards. Information on the NV2A's GPU registers are just now beginning to be discovered a few months ago. And yet, there's still a long way to go. The GeForce 3 series is the most mysterious of all NVIDIA GPUs (G7x and G8x aside) and the NV2A is alot worse. "But can't you just directly execute the NV2A instructions on another NVIDIA card?". No, I get alot of questions concerning this, and it is impossible. It's MMIO addresses are different and the exclusive registers must be emulated. Plus, in windows, we don't have ring 0 access anyway, so you all can scratch that idea now. Then comes the NForce 2 chipset. This is where it get easier. The NVIDIA MCPX is the control center for things such as audio, USB for input, Network adapters, PCI, AGP, etc. These things are not really that difficult to emulate IMO except for the audio.

4. The Audio system is rather complex. Xbox's audio consists of at least 4 DSPs, and audio codec (AC '97) and an NVIDIA SoundStorm APU. The DSPs shouldn't be a problem (just figuring out what they all are is) nor should the AC '97 but the NVIDIA SoundStorm APU is the really difficult part. So far I haven't found any information on this thing, but right now, it's relevance is low.

5. The Xbox BIOS isn't fully understood. The basic execution process of the BIOS is understood, but details on the process are at a loss. What we do know gives us hints, but before the BIOS can be emulated, we'll need a better understanding of the Xbox hardware layout because the BIOS does some unknown hardware initialization at boot time and writes to the hardware directly without using any XDK stuff. It will take some time, and effort, but I'll eventually get it working.

6. Video Encoder "Hell". Instead of using a RAMDAC for video output, the Xbox uses a Video Encoder. What makes this suck a pain? Microsoft sought the need to change the video encoder every other Xbox version (there are seven in all, 1.0 - 1.6). Why, I dunno, it's a Microsoft thing, they always tend to try to "fix" things that aren't broken >.> AFAIK, there are at least 3 different Video Encoders used: Conexant CX25871, Focus FS454, and Xcalibur. For more information in Xbox video encoders, click here. Emulating all three video encoders is only less than half the battle, the real problem is that BIOSes can be specifically tied to a specific encoder depending on it's version (don't quote me on this though). Like PS2, every Xbox model revision has a updated BIOS and has different expectations. This is a potential problem, but not exactly major.

Basically, I'm trying to get this "Xbox should be easy to emulate because it's just like a PC" crap out of your heads. I'm sure that most of you will disagree with me on this, but for these reasons and more, on a low level, Xbox is harder to emulate than PS2.

^ The exception to that above is that the NV2A is much better documented now, but not fully. There's an open source library for the OpenXDK called pbKit. It interfaces directly with the hardware to fully expose it's potential. This is what Microsoft should have done all along (or at least wrote a low-level OpenGL implementation).

 

the first xbox doesn't have a proper emulator to this day

there is an xbox emulator out there specifically made for playing HALO 1 and its still super buggy

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/xeon.html

the latest XBOX emulator was updated in 2011

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/cxbx.html

5 playable games list updated in 2012

http://forums.ngemu.com/showthread.php?t=95026

its not really an emulator its kinda like a port

still hard to do anything with it

[TheCanadianGamer16]

It is more likely that the reverse will be true most of the time, just as it was last gen. It's much easier to build a game for the weakest platform first then port it to more powerful platforms than it is to build it for the most powerful one then force it to work with the weakest.

Plus, consoles are the more important target for most of the developers. It is where they will sell the majority of their games, after all.

thats just because a lot of people don't know why people like PC gaming so much

[TheProfosist]

not sure if u read it or not but

 

the first xbox doesn't have a proper emulator to this day

there is an xbox emulator out there specifically made for playing HALO 1 and its still super buggy

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/xeon.html

the latest XBOX emulator was updated in 2011

http://www.emulator-zone.com/doc.php/xbox/cxbx.html

5 playable games list updated in 2012

http://forums.ngemu.com/showthread.php?t=95026

its not really an emulator its kinda like a port

still hard to do anything with it

 

thats what I was saying is your not going to be emulating anything anymore since it can be run natively. this may be harder actually but if you do it right ill be exactly like playing it on the console if not better. Also that wouldnt be a port a port happens when going from one architecture to another.

[qwertywarrior]

thats what I was saying is your not going to be emulating anything anymore since it can be run natively. this may be harder actually but if you do it right ill be exactly like playing it on the console if not better. Also that wouldnt be a port a port happens when going from one architecture to another.

games wont run natively on a windows pc 

if u have lets say a ps4 game its made to run on BSD

u WILL have to port it over 

check this out

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

 

it took them 6 months to port it over to ps4

 

porting it back to pc wont be easy

this is why i hate exclusives

i mean its already there

[TheProfosist]

games wont run natively on a windows pc 

if u have lets say a ps4 game its made to run on BSD

u WILL have to port it over 

check this out

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-how-the-crew-was-ported-to-playstation-4

 

it took them 6 months to port it over to ps4

 

porting it back to pc wont be easy

this is why i hate exclusives

i mean its already there

 

Run it in a VM or just install free BSD?

[qwertywarrior]

Run it in a VM or just install free BSD?

have u ever tried running a game in VM

its not easy

and think about it

wouldnt be easier to just  run BSD on ur pc and playing that game ?

drivers are a nightmare

 

and also BSD on the ps4 is very tuned  its still very very complicated

[FireFox]

Next gen consoles using current gen PC hardware (pretty much), I find it quite amusing

[TheProfosist]

have u ever tried running a game in VM

its not easy

and think about it

wouldnt be easier to just  run BSD on ur pc and playing that game ?

drivers are a nightmare

 

and also BSD on the ps4 is very tuned  its still very very complicated

 

that essentially what emulator are in a way... Also ive used DOS box which is close as well

 

I think your just trying to com up with any possible reason its not possible. You should be thinking the other way all these things mean that there is hope.

[qwertywarrior]

that essentially what emulator are in a way... Also ive used DOS box which is close as well

 

I think your just trying to com up with any possible reason its not possible. You should be thinking the other way all these things mean that there is hope.

VM are very different than a emulator 

 

with an emulator

u emulate a GPU and CPU  even the sound card while using the original console's bios aka emulating an entire system

 

in a  VM ur only running an OS in another OS using ur OWN hardware

[TheProfosist]

VM are very different than a emulator 

 

with an emulator

u emulate a GPU and CPU  even the sound card while using the original console's bios aka emulating an entire system

 

in a  VM ur only running an OS in another OS using ur OWN hardware

 

there is a reason why i said in a way. the way being neither are you running it directly on the hardware.

 

In most cases the VM doesnt know its a VM. either way its doesnt matter as that doesnt matter because depending on how its done you shouldnt have to emulate any hardware the hard part being getting it to that point.

[Dravic]

Yep, HSA is coming to PCs, jaguars will be widely available. Neither was designed to be some sort of alphaω of technology because amd can't afford it. We will have a closer look at those architectures and possibly run next-gen consoles almost natively because the only part that has to be emulated may be HSA environment. We don't know but ee can hope.

[Kuzma]

I'm expecting us to actual run the ps4s OS (with some kind of installation wizard to change the drivers) before we emlate it; I'm still not very hopeful about x86 emulation *looks at wine*

[jetbuster]

I'm expecting us to actual run the ps4s OS (with some kind of installation wizard to change the drivers) before we emlate it; I'm still not very hopeful about x86 emulation *looks at wine*

yeah i'm expecting someone to crack the software and let it install on similar AMD hardware specifically on the ps4 before the XBone

[Guest]

Yes it will be very easy to make emulators for them, and they will probably be very stable since both use x86 there will be very little configuration needed there. I bet within days there will be working emulators for them.