AMD Zen

[i_build_nanosuits]

i certainly wouldnt wait for it...i think if it can match haswell it will already be a huge feat for AMD...so i would get an intel processor.

[Fulgrim]

Hang on a minute, let me ask Mystic Meg to get her crystal ball to tell us....

 

 

Wait nvm, we don't know. But i think the struggles they got put through thanks to their stupid fuckup with Bulldozer, that they'll have learnt a lesson. Also, Jim Keller helped on the new Zen cores. So i'm hopeful.

[i_build_nanosuits]

Wait nvm, we don't know. But i think the struggles they got put through thanks to their stupid fuckup with Bulldozer, that they'll have learnt a lesson. Also, Jim Keller helped on the new Zen cores. So i'm hopeful.

yeah, but when you think about it: what are the odds for zen to be:

1- better than what intel has on the market right now?

2- and also retail for less than what intel has on the market right now, and be a better deal?

i get that if they sell it for less money even though is not quite as fast as intel haswell or skylake stuff it could potentially be a good deal but AMD is good with playing with the numbers and showing consumers high core count and high frequencies and make fancy graphs and stuff to highlight the strenght of an otherwise weak part? they certainly will want to ask as much as they possibly get away with for Zen...i don't know...personaly i feel it's much hype and you can maybe get something that will game as well as say an i5-3570 for about the price of an i3 or something...that i think is best scenario.

They claim 40% faster cores per clock...this would make them on haswell level or so, if they can fit a true 6 core chip that has the single-threaded performance of an haswell part and sell it for around 199$ or less...with available good quality motherboards in the 79$ to 109$ range...then it could be a good deal for many gamers out there...otherwise if they have to ask more than that, or do not deliver the 40% faster cpu core, it's all over IMHO.

[Nena Trinity]

I say it can be hype because if they keep delaying Intel will catch up to the Zen before it is even released...

[Fulgrim]

yeah, but when you think about it: what are the odds for zen to be:

1- better than what intel has on the market right now?

2- and also retail for less than what intel has on the market right now, and be a better deal?

i get that if they sell it for less money even though is not quite as fast as intel haswell or skylake stuff it could potentially be a good deal but AMD is good with playing with the numbers and showing consumers high core count and high frequencies and make fancy graphs and stuff to highlight the strenght of an otherwise weak part? they certainly will want to ask as much as they possibly get away with for Zen...i don't know...personaly i feel it's much hype and you can maybe get something that will game as well as say an i5-3570 for about the price of an i3 or something...that i think is best scenario.

Until the product is produced and benchmarks have been done, we're all wasting time and effort trying to speculate. 

Also, looking at specs and numbers is one thing, but good ol' benchmarks are what we all need.

[SteveGrabowski0]

yeah, but when you think about it: what are the odds for zen to be:

1- better than what intel has on the market right now?

2- and also retail for less than what intel has on the market right now, and be a better deal?

i get that if they sell it for less money even though is not quite as fast as intel haswell or skylake stuff it could potentially be a good deal but AMD is good with playing with the numbers and showing consumers high core count and high frequencies and make fancy graphs and stuff to highlight the strenght of an otherwise weak part? they certainly will want to ask as much as they possibly get away with for Zen...i don't know...personaly i feel it's much hype and you can maybe get something that will game as well as say an i5-3570 for about the price of an i3 or something...that i think is best scenario.

They claim 40% faster cores per clock...this would make them on haswell level or so, if they can fit a true 6 core chip that has the single-threaded performance of an haswell part and sell it for around 199$ or less...with available good quality motherboards in the 79$ to 109$ range...then it could be a good deal for many gamers out there.

 

One thing that could make Zen a great deal is that AMD is basically forced to unlock everything, so if they can put out a CPU that can match Haswell clock for clock, it could be a pretty amazing deal once you factor in being able to overclock it.

[juretrn]

AMD is claiming a lot of things... will they live up to that is another matter.

[i_build_nanosuits]

I say it can be hype because if they keep delaying Intel will catch up to the Zen before it is even released...

you really think Zen will be faster than skylake?...skylake is like 50-55% faster per clock when compaired to AMD's finest steamroller CPU core...they claim a 40% increase...which will most likely turn into a 32-35% increase at launch day if we look at how AMD has done things in the recent past.

Remember the FuryX benchmarks AMD themselves released a couple days before the reviewers were allowed to reveal the real performance metrics in which the FuryX was slap bitchin the 980ti all over the place!?

[Megahurt]

From all we know, it still won't have the same single thread performance as intel, but if the improvement gets rid of most bottlenecks and the price is right, it will bring some competition to intel and could help bring the prices down.

[Nena Trinity]

you really think Zen will be faster than skylake?...skylake is like 50-55% faster per clock when compaired to AMD's finest steamroller CPU core...they claim a 40% increase...which will most likely turn into a 32-35% increase at launch day if we look at how AMD has done things in the recent past.

Remember the FuryX benchmarks AMD themselves released a couple days before the reviewers were allowed to reveal the real performance metrics in which the FuryX was slap bitchin the 980ti all over the place?

Well I hope it tie with Skylake minimum but next lake will be out next year so... But I also do have a feeling Intel holds back and wants AMD to sell chips then release their next super chip next year or so...

[i_build_nanosuits]

Until the product is produced and benchmarks have been done, we're all wasting time and effort trying to speculate. 

Also, looking at specs and numbers is one thing, but good ol' benchmarks are what we all need.

True, but AMD claimed all over the place a 40% increase in IPC with Zen when compaired to their best current CPU architecture...so that's something to start discussing with.

 

 

One thing that could make Zen a great deal is that AMD is basically forced to unlock everything, so if they can put out a CPU that can match Haswell clock for clock, it could be a pretty amazing deal once you factor in being able to overclock it.

agree, as i said...199$ USD, 6 cores, unlocked...match haswell IPC (even a couple percent slower would still do it for many users out there)...booom done deal. (do you really see such a thing happening is the question though, do you believe in santa-claus?)

[Philosobyte]

I'm considering getting a new CPU but a lot of people are saying wait for the new Zen processors, will they be any good? Wasn't there a lot of hype with Bullbozer CPU but they failed to live up to it?

My question is... why the hell you're on Linustechtips instead of asking YubiBotter. 

 

Nice to see you on this forum

 

I read somewhere that at base clocks in the best-case implementation scenario considering not only IPC but a ton of other crazy stuff that I didn't understand, Zen could have Haswell-level performance. Combine that with overclocking for a low price, and you have a winner. But realistically Zen probably won't be at Haswell levels. But then again, everything we say right now is pointless because no one really knows until Zen actually comes out. 

Edited November 7, 2015 by Raymondbl

[i_build_nanosuits]

I read somewhere that at base clocks in the best-case implementation scenario considering not only IPC but a ton of other crazy stuff that I didn't understand, Zen could have Haswell-level performance. Combine that with overclocking for a low price, and you have a winner. But realistically Zen probably won't be at Haswell levels. But then again, everything we say right now is pointless because no one really knows until Zen actually comes out.

i would consider this as the best answer so far.

[SteveGrabowski0]

True, but AMD claimed all over the place a 40% increase in IPC with Zen when compaired to their best current CPU architecture...so that's something to start discussing with.

 

 

agree, as i said...199$ USD, 6 cores, unlocked...match haswell IPC (even a couple percent slower would still do it for many users out there)...booom done deal. (do you really see such a thing happening is the question though, do you believe in santa-claus?)

 

A true six core unlocked Haswell level IPC chip for $300 (much less $200) would be awesome, I'd take that over a Skylake i7-6700k or the Kaby Lake equivalent for $350 in a second. Especially considering AMD's customer support. I have never had to deal with Intel for anything as this is the first time in my adult life I have used one of their CPUs, but AMD had the most painless RMA I have ever dealt with when I had to return an Athlon XP years ago.

[Lawliet93]

yeah, but when you think about it: what are the odds for zen to be:

1- better than what intel has on the market right now?

2- and also retail for less than what intel has on the market right now, and be a better deal?

i get that if they sell it for less money even though is not quite as fast as intel haswell or skylake stuff it could potentially be a good deal but AMD is good with playing with the numbers and showing consumers high core count and high frequencies and make fancy graphs and stuff to highlight the strenght of an otherwise weak part? they certainly will want to ask as much as they possibly get away with for Zen...i don't know...personaly i feel it's much hype and you can maybe get something that will game as well as say an i5-3570 for about the price of an i3 or something...that i think is best scenario.

They claim 40% faster cores per clock...this would make them on haswell level or so, if they can fit a true 6 core chip that has the single-threaded performance of an haswell part and sell it for around 199$ or less...with available good quality motherboards in the 79$ to 109$ range...then it could be a good deal for many gamers out there...otherwise if they have to ask more than that, or do not deliver the 40% faster cpu core, it's all over IMHO.

I hate that opinion of AMD, they have to be cheaper... nope, they have to price the product well... and selling basically a 5820k for 50% is just stupid. People just want AMD to have a good product, so that they can buy cheaper intel and Nvidia products.

[SteveGrabowski0]

I hate that opinion of AMD, they have to be cheaper... nope, they have to price the product well... and selling basically a 5820k for 50% is just stupid. People just want AMD to have a good product, so that they can buy cheaper intel and Nvidia products.

 

Even when AMD was killing Intel on flat out performance in the Athlon XP vs Williamette days, the Athlon XP was significantly less expensive. And still only pulled a 20% market share. AMD's brand name isn't strong enough to sell at Intel prices sadly.

[BlackXbonE]

get the best you can (want to) afford now and you'll be fine for at least the next gen of anything for the purpose of your needs.

[Lawliet93]

Even when AMD was killing Intel on flat out performance in the Athlon XP vs Williamette days, the Athlon XP was significantly less expensive. And still only pulled a 20% market share. AMD's brand name isn't strong enough to sell at Intel prices sadly.

AMD doesn´t need to be the first in the CPU market, just being the second one after intel with 20% market share would be the best spot for AMD and if they would challenge Intel from time to time... that would be even better. Don´t forget, intel has made a 12 billion dollar profit last year... AMD can´t beat that.

[Senzelian]

Depending on the price though, it may still be worth it for people who can only afford so much.

I don't think AMD will go the low budget route.

I think they want to compete with Intel and NVidia on the same level as we've seen with the Fury graphics cards.

I'm interested to see what they can offer, but that will take a long time until we can finally hold a Zen CPU in our hand.

[TechGod]

i would consider this as the best answer so far.

 

My question is... why the hell you're on Linustechtips instead of asking YubiBotter. 

 

Nice to see you on this forum

 

I read somewhere that at base clocks in the best-case implementation scenario considering not only IPC but a ton of other crazy stuff that I didn't understand, Zen could have Haswell-level performance. Combine that with overclocking for a low price, and you have a winner. But realistically Zen probably won't be at Haswell levels. But then again, everything we say right now is pointless because no one really knows until Zen actually comes out. 

And its also so very wrong of an answer....

[TechGod]

True, but AMD claimed all over the place a 40% increase in IPC with Zen when compaired to their best current CPU architecture...so that's something to start discussing with.

 

 

agree, as i said...199$ USD, 6 cores, unlocked...match haswell IPC (even a couple percent slower would still do it for many users out there)...booom done deal. (do you really see such a thing happening is the question though, do you believe in santa-claus?)

You're nuts if you believe that. Do you think they WANT to make a loss? They might at best sell slightly cheaper than the Broadwell E for the 6 core and 8 core parts. 

[TechGod]

My question is... why the hell you're on Linustechtips instead of asking YubiBotter. 

 

Nice to see you on this forum

 

I read somewhere that at base clocks in the best-case implementation scenario considering not only IPC but a ton of other crazy stuff that I didn't understand, Zen could have Haswell-level performance. Combine that with overclocking for a low price, and you have a winner. But realistically Zen probably won't be at Haswell levels. But then again, everything we say right now is pointless because no one really knows until Zen actually comes out. 

No. Realistically, running the maths, it WOULD reach Haswell easily. They've switched to SMT, using a 14nm node, significantly cut down cache latency bottlenecks, implemented modern instruction sets and obviously they've worked on the branch predictor as well. It will easily reach Haswell and I don't understand why you believe some guy's maths if you had no idea what he was talking about. "I don't understand what he's saying but he sounds knowledgable so I'll believe him even if he is wrong"

[stconquest]

No matter the IPC improvement, AMD has to price these in a competitive market.  Intel just sits there with a giant hammer looming over AMD's head.  Kinda sucks to know Intel will have 10 answers to any AMD leap in the CPU category.

 

The question is:  Do you believe in magic?

[TechGod]

yeah, but when you think about it: what are the odds for zen to be:

1- better than what intel has on the market right now?

2- and also retail for less than what intel has on the market right now, and be a better deal?

i get that if they sell it for less money even though is not quite as fast as intel haswell or skylake stuff it could potentially be a good deal but AMD is good with playing with the numbers and showing consumers high core count and high frequencies and make fancy graphs and stuff to highlight the strenght of an otherwise weak part? they certainly will want to ask as much as they possibly get away with for Zen...i don't know...personaly i feel it's much hype and you can maybe get something that will game as well as say an i5-3570 for about the price of an i3 or something...that i think is best scenario.

They claim 40% faster cores per clock...this would make them on haswell level or so, if they can fit a true 6 core chip that has the single-threaded performance of an haswell part and sell it for around 199$ or less...with available good quality motherboards in the 79$ to 109$ range...then it could be a good deal for many gamers out there...otherwise if they have to ask more than that, or do not deliver the 40% faster cpu core, it's all over IMHO.

@Prysin Can you please shut this guy down?

[TechGod]

No matter the IPC improvement, AMD has to price these in a competitive market.  Intel just sits there with a giant hammer looming over AMD's head.  Kinda sucks to know Intel will have 10 answers to any AMD leap in the CPU category.

 

The question is:  Do you believe in magic?

Mmmmm. I doubt Intel will make Kabylake a performance monster and by the time Icelake is scheduled to come out, Zen+ is gonna be dropping with a further 15% in IPC improvement over Zen. They might be able to start trading blows with Intel when Zen+ comes out.