AMD Zen

[TechGod]

Haswell level performance at the end of 2017 would be a bit of a disaster really, that would put them 3 CPUs behind Intel at that point. That isn't going to save the company, being faster and better is the only way to do that and the problem is they are so far behind and have such enormous problems with delivery and fullfilling the promises they make about their products that its unfortunately not really looking all that good. If we could buy one today it wouldn't be terrible but still uncompetitive and a budget option, next year it'll be bargain bin for that level of performance.

Er no. They reach Haswell and that's good enough. They offer more cores than Intel with Haswell level performance? That's awesome! And they most likely will.

[Citadelen]

Intel64 is a clone of AMD64. ( this was meant to be a reply to @rvborgh )

[Philosobyte]

Intel64 is a clone of AMD64. (this was meant to be a reply to rvborgh)

Then quote his post or tag him like this: @rvborgh

so we know it's aimed at him. 

[Citadelen]

Oh I didn't know you could use @ to tag people, I forgot to use quote anyway.

[rvborgh]

indeed.

i am referring to things like this:




where overall gains seem to be to tapering off.
 

Intel64 is a clone of AMD64. ( this was meant to be a reply to @rvborgh )

[andypandylin]

I would be amazed if Zen's performance is on par with Skylake when it comes out. But even that is unlikely in my opinion.

I just can not imagine how they could possibly catch up with one iteration, given their current CPUs are years behind Intels.   

[TechGod]

I would be amazed if Zen's performance is on par with Skylake when it comes out. But even that is unlikely in my opinion.

I just can not imagine how they could possibly catch up with one iteration, given their current CPUs are years behind Intels.   

No one is expecting Skylake. We're expecting Haswell and they can deliver. 

[BrightCandle]

I can't get excited for Haswell level performance. All that can ever be is a cheaper alternative to Intel's dominant performance. You can go out and get an 8/16 Haswell CPU today and have been able to for a year, broadwell will be out before AMD releases Zen meaning even if Zen does have a 8/16 variant (they have only talked about 4/8 AFAIK) its still going to be a year later and slower and all that can be is a cheaper alternative. That isn't impressive as a release, if we had it now it would be competitive, next year it wont be.

[TechGod]

I can't get excited for Haswell level performance. All that can ever be is a cheaper alternative to Intel's dominant performance. You can go out and get an 8/16 Haswell CPU today and have been able to for a year, broadwell will be out before AMD releases Zen meaning even if Zen does have a 8/16 variant (they have only talked about 4/8 AFAIK) its still going to be a year later and slower and all that can be is a cheaper alternative. That isn't impressive as a release, if we had it now it would be competitive, next year it wont be.

I don't understand why not. Haswell doesn't have DDR4 support nor does Intel offer a unified socket. I hope you do realise that Skylake's performance gains are not even worth it. The only exciting thing about Skylake for me was the DDR4 support. Cheaper alternative? No. If you think Zen is a flop cause it won't reach Skylake, then you're being ridiculous IMO because there are plenty of other things besides pure performance the Zen cores will offer.

 

Yes, there is gonna be a 8c/16t variant for Zen. 

[Quincy15]

Zen at best will probably be i5 speed. There is no way AMD can catch and overhall Intel when all they have been making for the last 5 years are crappy CPU's

[TechGod]

Zen at best will probably be i5 speed. There is no way AMD can catch and overhall Intel when all they have been making for the last 5 years are crappy CPU's

Oh this is ridiculous.... 

[Quincy15]

Oh this is ridiculous.... 

Why?

 

Do you expect AMD to challenge the 5960x ? or fall flat on their face (as they usually do)?

[stconquest]

Why?

 

Do you expect AMD to challenge the 5960x ? or fall flat on their face (as they usually do)?

 

I won't be too hard on you, we are all learning...

 

i5 is not a speed.  The i7 4790K and the i5 4690K are exactly the same in any single threaded task when compared at the same clock.  i7s come with a higher clock out of the box, but the i5 can easily match those clocks.

 

 

Zen at best will probably be i5 speed. There is no way AMD can catch and overhall Intel when all they have been making for the last 5 years are crappy CPU's

 

Actually AMD can catch/surpass Intel's IPC, only a lack of ingenuity prevents this.  What they can't do is copy Intel's architecture.  Breakthroughs happen, but are unpredictable to a good degree.

[TechGod]

I won't be too hard on you, we are all learning...

 

i5 is not a speed.  The i7 4790K and the i5 4690K are exactly the same in any single threaded task when compared at the same clock.  i7s come with a higher clock out of the box, but the i5 can easily match those clocks.

 

 

 

Actually AMD can catch/surpass Intel's IPC, only a lack of ingenuity prevents this.  What they can't do is copy Intel's architecture.  Breakthroughs happen, but are unpredictable to a good degree.

Thank you...if AMD releases a Zen CPU with 8 cores and Haswell level performance and ever so slightly cheaper than X99 (like 50 to 100 bucks cheaper) they have a MASSIVE winner. 

[Quincy15]

I won't be too hard on you, we are all learning...

 

i5 is not a speed. 

 

Dude I know, its a class of processors i3, i5 and i7

[TechGod]

Why?

 

Do you expect AMD to challenge the 5960x ? or fall flat on their face (as they usually do)?

Quite easily in fact. The patch indicates 4 FPU pipelines where Intel has none (Zen will wreck the Core series in applications that utilise the general purpose pipelines Intel uses as they share pipelines between the FPU and ALU) SMT support will greatly boost performance, the switch to 14nm is another boon. Compatibility with Intel's ISA? Check. Vastly improved cache latency? Check. They can close the gap quite easily. OH and while the cache in Zen might not end up being as fast as Intel's but they will more than compensate by having twice the L2 cache of Intel processors in the high end segment. 

[TechGod]

Dude I know, its a class of processors i3, i5 and i7

Yeah so Zen will catch up. Your post is nonsensical. 

[Jahramika]

Well I upgraded from AMD FX series to 5930 and now to Skylak. The only reason I even moved to Intel was for the M.2 support and then the multiple M.2 support. Far as I am concerned the M.2 integration is the biggest improvement. I can still run anything I was on my 4 year old FX CPU. 

[GodSpoon]

Not hype, *hope 

[Citadelen]

I can't get excited for Haswell level performance. All that can ever be is a cheaper alternative to Intel's dominant performance. You can go out and get an 8/16 Haswell CPU today and have been able to for a year, broadwell will be out before AMD releases Zen meaning even if Zen does have a 8/16 variant (they have only talked about 4/8 AFAIK) its still going to be a year later and slower and all that can be is a cheaper alternative. That isn't impressive as a release, if we had it now it would be competitive, next year it wont be.

[TechGod]

I can't get excited for Haswell level performance. All that can ever be is a cheaper alternative to Intel's dominant performance. You can go out and get an 8/16 Haswell CPU today and have been able to for a year, broadwell will be out before AMD releases Zen meaning even if Zen does have a 8/16 variant (they have only talked about 4/8 AFAIK) its still going to be a year later and slower and all that can be is a cheaper alternative. That isn't impressive as a release, if we had it now it would be competitive, next year it wont be.

Lmao. Rekt.

[TheMissxu]

I think it's safe to say it's going to be very similar to Bulldozer — amazing multicore performance (If rumors are true, nearing Intel extreme chip performance), but still mediocre single-core performance (probably near an i7 3770k single core/IPC performance). Of course, by the time Zen comes out, there'll be a Kaby Lake, which is ~4 generations ahead of an i7 3770k (which  is about +20% in IPC performance).

 

TL;DR, amazing multicore performance, ~20% less single core performance (which translates to poorer performance in games in general)

[Citadelen]

@TheMissxu ppl why no red oher pst

[BrightCandle]

Is the reason people don't currently have a Haswell or faster processor purely about price? If it is and Zen is significantly cheaper than its going to change things a lot. However if AMD intends to price it competitively then its Haswell like performance in 1 years time and at best its just a value product competing at a point of performance Intel has long ago exceeded. I can already buy a faster processor before Zen even comes out, I will get a full year of utility out of it and Intel will replace those parts by the time Zen gets here. AMD getting to that point 36 months later isn't impressive, because the target is continuously moving. AMD aren't competing with Haswell, they are competing with the processor Kabylake and Skylake-E. They don't do very well in that comparison performance wise being several generations behind,  unless somehow they have massively underesimtated the progress they have made rather than overestimating as usual.

 

I and almost everyone else wanting that level of performance will already have it before Zen comes out. At the time Zen arrives we will have the choice of that or a faster Intel CPU and so its again competing in a more budget constrained area. That matters to the younger PC gamers but to old hats like me I care about top line performance and Zen isn't a compelling product. All it does is potentially lower the price of that level of performance, so therefore price must be the factor holding back everyone buying that level of performance. But I don't think that is true, I think its more about the minimal increases from their existing setups and no amount of purchasing of MB+CPU+RAM is worth it when its only +20%. Even if it was $100 it likely still would not entice many of those people. If it had come out 3 years ago it would have been big, but its too late and its just trying to barely keep up as its top line target, reducing the price of that performance level (presumably since pricing hasn't been announced yet AFAIK).

[mikat]

Wait nvm, we don't know.

 

Wait NVME...