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Apple takes 92% of smartphone market profits on just 20% of sales

NinerL
By NinerL
in Tech News
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Posted

Especially that 128GB... $200 or whatever of almost pure profit. Why does that have to be the upselling feature you have to pay so much extra for...

 

I don't really care about its cost, i just like it

Desktop - Corsair 300r i7 4770k H100i MSI 780ti 16GB Vengeance Pro 2400mhz Crucial MX100 512gb Samsung Evo 250gb 2 TB WD Green, AOC Q2770PQU 1440p 27" monitor Laptop Clevo W110er - 11.6" 768p, i5 3230m, 650m GT 2gb, OCZ vertex 4 256gb,  4gb ram, Server: Fractal Define Mini, MSI Z78-G43, Intel G3220, 8GB Corsair Vengeance, 4x 3tb WD Reds in Raid 10, Phone Oppo Reno 10x 256gb , Camera Sony A7iii

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Posted

i currently run the ios 9 beta and thats more stable than android

 

 

whoa there calm down no need to ignore him....jeez

 

btw butt hurt much....

 

dont bother replying i already had you on my ignore list months ago....

 

 

spoken like a person that dosnt understand capitalism 

Alright IOS8 is super bugging and unstable. Compared to IOS7 it was trash

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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The excuse of people who just don't like being inferior but are too lazy to do anything about it :P

Calling him inferior isn't really helping your case, don't you think?

 

 

Yeah that would be a shame to be put on your ignore list. 

 

You get what you pay for and Apple products do last longer. 

They last longer than super cheap, low quality products that aren't properly taken care of. They don't do anything special unless you're someone who doesn't know how to avoid viruses in the case of Macs. iPhones definitely don't last longer since they get like 20-50% slower with each major update to convince people to upgrade every 1-2 years. And be fore you say "the same thing happens on Android," well, that's the point.

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Calling him inferior isn't really helping your case, don't you think?

It was meant to be ironic...

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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It was meant to be ironic...

Ah, okay. It's hard to tell sometimes. especially since that's really how Apple's fanboys tend to be.

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I can't get creative with an iphone and mess with the OS or hardware like I can with Android. This is my only problem with Apple products; I never have full control :(

and I see people here say things like "Android OS has so many problems" but I have never ran into a "problem" on android. never.

 

what sort of problems do you guys get? everything has always just worked for me.. after removing every pieces of software I have no use for, of course :P

"When you're in high school you should be doing things, about which you could never tell your parents!"

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spoken like a person that dosnt understand capitalism 

 

Or economics or market survival or product value and saleability or competition or consumer sales statistics, etc etc etc.

 

Products only sell if they are better and/or cheaper,  if the Iphone costs more and still sells, it is because to the general consumer it is better, end of story. 

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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And Android has a multitude of OS issues right now under Lollipop. Apple doesn't make that kind of mistake.

Ideed, Apple wouldn't do that. I couldn't imagine them making something completely FUBAR, an update bad that it has to be pulled completely. Like iOS 8.0.1 for example

Android may have ongoing issues with Lollipop, but they never f*cked things up that badly.

The whole worker's conditions thing isn't anywhere near sorted, Apple merely said that their suppliers had to improve the standards. In the meantime they are practically forcing them to supply the parts and phones at such low prices that the suppliers can't improve worker conditions and pay without turning a loss rather than a profit.

Apple (being the major player that they are) could easily do the right thing and pay a reasonable price for their parts whilst ensuring that the people who make their products get treated like human beings. However that would mean they can't make such large profits, which of course is way more important.

The others are just as guilty indeed. Then again they have to be if they want to stay competitive. Nobody would buy a Galaxy or an HTC if it were 50% more expensive than an iPhone.

So as long as Apple doesn't do the right thing and leads the way, they will be responsible for all the worker abuse in all those factories.

As for battery life, I did a direct comparison between a friend's iPhone 6 and my own M8 and found almost no difference for my usage pattern. The iPhone 6 did better in terms of pure stand-by and in-call, the M8 did better when used intensively for browsing and multimedia. How you use your phone is the most important thing here.

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Ideed, Apple wouldn't do that. I couldn't imagine them making something completely FUBAR, an update bad that it has to be pulled completely. Like iOS 8.0.1 for example

Android may have ongoing issues with Lollipop, but they never f*cked things up that badly.

The whole worker's conditions thing isn't anywhere near sorted, Apple merely said that their suppliers had to improve the standards. In the meantime they are practically forcing them to supply the parts and phones at such low prices that the suppliers can't improve worker conditions and pay without turning a loss rather than a profit.

Apple (being the major player that they are) could easily do the right thing and pay a reasonable price for their parts whilst ensuring that the people who make their products get treated like human beings. However that would mean they can't make such large profits, which of course is way more important.

 

 

Force? There's a lot of misconceptions going around right now. Apple doesn't force you to buy their products. Apple doesn't force their manufacturers to sign deals with them. Apple doesn't force Samsung, HTC, or whoever to compete with them. 

 

Why is Apple being painted out to be this evil dictator who will hang you and your family if you don't cooperate with them.

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How can you compete against a company like Apple when they play the game like this. It's no wonder why nearly every other tech giant is losing profits. I wouldn't call Apple to be broken up but I think there should be a limit on how much profit you can charge for anything. The margins for Apple shouldn't be as high as they are it's crazy.

Capitalism operates on the microeconomic theory of two people: Adam Smith and John Nash (From "A Beautiful Mind"). Companies put prices of products at the point marginal cost of production = marginal profit of sale. This is the profit maximization point. That is universally true for any business in any market be it commodities or monopolistic competition such as in smartphones, tablets, GPUs, etc.. Profit stems from revenue. The profit maximization point is also the revenue maximization point. Revenue comes from the price, and the price is set according to a number of factors used to gauge how much the consumers are willing to pay. How consumers perceive a product is one of the big factors. Apple has a huge brand capital compared even to Intel. If you proved to consumers they'd get the same or better experience for a cheaper price, most of them would go with the alternative. The problem rests in how you intend to do that. Marketing enters here. Apple doesn't really market in my experience. I've never actually seen an Apple commercial, though I have seen plenty of Droid and Samsung Galaxy ads on TV and elsewhere. So perhaps Apple's success is best described as the incompetence of competition paired with consumers not doing their jobs of being differentiating. 

 

As for the profit margins, Apple designs its own chips, phones, and software; Apple has a large scale foundry produce the chips in such huge volume that the foundries compete to give the lowest price. Nvidia and AMD have no such luxury with TSMC since GloFo has historically sucked at GPUs and Intel is not generally an open foundry. Thus, Apple gets the best possible production deal = lower cost = higher margin = higher pricing potential (remember marginal cost vs. marginal profit and how that effects the end price). Apple also has a cheap labor force and a very large scale at their production centers in China through Foxconn. Since Apple's products fall under an economy of scale, bigger scale reduces costs and marginal costs. It's just raw microeconomics. There's nothing intricate or savage about it. Samsung has to deal with Google's royalties for Android, has to deal with its own fab R&D costs, has gotten ARM's vanilla core designs and built chips around them until now, and it doesn't command the same brand loyalty that Apple does. Its perceived quality is overall lower across the market. Thus it sells fewer units. So, not only are Samsung's costs higher, but it has consumer perception problems to deal with as well.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Hopefully windows 10 will make the windows phone worthwhile, but until then it's apple for me.

I am conducting some polls regarding your opinion of large technology companies. I would appreciate your response. 

Microsoft Apple Valve Google Facebook Oculus HTC AMD Intel Nvidia

I'm using this data to judge this site's biases so people can post in a more objective way.

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Ideed, Apple wouldn't do that. I couldn't imagine them making something completely FUBAR, an update bad that it has to be pulled completely. Like iOS 8.0.1 for example

Android may have ongoing issues with Lollipop, but they never f*cked things up that badly.

The whole worker's conditions thing isn't anywhere near sorted, Apple merely said that their suppliers had to improve the standards. In the meantime they are practically forcing them to supply the parts and phones at such low prices that the suppliers can't improve worker conditions and pay without turning a loss rather than a profit.

Apple (being the major player that they are) could easily do the right thing and pay a reasonable price for their parts whilst ensuring that the people who make their products get treated like human beings. However that would mean they can't make such large profits, which of course is way more important.

The others are just as guilty indeed. Then again they have to be if they want to stay competitive. Nobody would buy a Galaxy or an HTC if it were 50% more expensive than an iPhone.

So as long as Apple doesn't do the right thing and leads the way, they will be responsible for all the worker abuse in all those factories.

As for battery life, I did a direct comparison between a friend's iPhone 6 and my own M8 and found almost no difference for my usage pattern. The iPhone 6 did better in terms of pure stand-by and in-call, the M8 did better when used intensively for browsing and multimedia. How you use your phone is the most important thing here.

I didn't suffer any issues with 8.0.1 myself, but w/e. And yes, Lollipop has f*cked up just as badly in the past, not the least of which including the keyboard security issues being dealt with right now. 

 

That's capitalism. Perhaps the Chinese should fight for better protections like the U.S. workers did. Of course, then the production would move to Africa or South America and the cycle would repeat while the Chinese would lose a huge economic boon to their country. The industrial era was never kind to its people until the very end. It's not Apple's fault, and you can't expect businesses to be moral. They exist to make money when publically held. If you want to take private ownership and change that, you're gonna need a fuck ton of money. And Dell is far more guilty. I just looked up who the biggest FoxConn clients are. Apple does not make the top 25. Half the firms are from China too. Apple is #36 on devoted employee count at FoxConn. Guess who #3 is? It's Intel. All those server and Galileo boards have to be made somewhere.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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I can't get creative with an iphone and mess with the OS or hardware like I can with Android. This is my only problem with Apple products; I never have full control :(

and I see people here say things like "Android OS has so many problems" but I have never ran into a "problem" on android. never.

 

what sort of problems do you guys get? everything has always just worked for me.. after removing every pieces of software I have no use for, of course :P

Android's biggest issues have always been security, such as the digital keyboard hack of late. Lollipop had huge performance letdowns compared to KitKat as well. Bloatware is the other big complaint. People don't want to deal with it. I'll be the first to admit my iPhone 6 has far more than the 5 did in things like GarageBand, but compared to the Galaxy S6 it's a lot better off.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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the fact that people want something instant which is what apple provides mostly :/ . So yeah, no wonder people are going to them because one less bullshit to delete in my life, just ge'in all de muneh and ill be alright. LOL.

:ph34r:      i5 4460 3.2 Ghz | Asrock Z87 Pro4 | DDR3 16Gb | GTX 760 | Seidon 120 V     :ph34r:

 

 

 

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Android's biggest issues have always been security, such as the digital keyboard hack of late. Lollipop had huge performance letdowns compared to KitKat as well.

 

hmm I see. I've never had such issues because security problems arise from/because of the user most times (ignorance). Kind of like how I've ran windows for 5 years without using an A/V and have had zero headaches. As far as performance issues, I wouldn't be able to say. my phone applications/games run just fine, but I use a note. the hardware in it is op for a phone xD

"When you're in high school you should be doing things, about which you could never tell your parents!"

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Or economics or market survival or product value and saleability or competition or consumer sales statistics, etc etc etc.

 

Products only sell if they are perceived as better and/or cheaper,  if the Iphone costs more and still sells, it is because to the general consumer it is perceived as better, end of story. 

Fixed. That might seem like a small change, but it's very important to note. Apple's real strength is marketing.

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Fixed. That might seem like a small change, but it's very important to note. Apple's real strength is marketing.

I've used both iOS and Android, I've used Windows, Linux, and OSX, I can safely say I prefer Apple's offerings; and I'm far from being an uneducated consumer. Not to mention their marketing doesn't really have much of an affect on me seeing as I know the truth about most of the bullshit their (and everyone else) is marketing. 

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Fixed. That might seem like a small change, but it's very important to note. Apple's real strength is marketing.

See, I don't understand that, because I NEVER see Apple ads anywhere except at the Verizon store. If Apple has a marketing team, they're subtle as Hell. Steve Jobs' take on sales was always to undersell and over-deliver. And honestly that's not a bad strategy. That was how the Apple II sold so well in the first place, and the iPod as well.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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I've used both iOS and Android, I've used Windows, Linux, and OSX, I can safely say I prefer Apple's offerings; and I'm far from being an uneducated consumer. 

Whereas I actually prefer Linux for the desktop (Fedora 22 specifically) and iOS for phones. I've never had a tablet and probably never will, but I'd wager I'd prefer Windows 8.1 for it. 

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Whereas I actually prefer Linux for the desktop (Fedora 22 specifically) and iOS for phones. I've never had a tablet and probably never will, but I'd wager I'd prefer Windows 8.1 for it. 

I'd probably agree since windows is more like a full OS? I haven't actually used windows on any smartphone/tablet so I really don't know about either platform to compare it. But then again, I also hate the idea of tablets since if I'm brining a tablet with me then I'm already carrying a bag -- in which case I'd just assume carry a bigger (my laptop bag is big enough for my laptop, it's charger, and a couple wires/phones in the front pocket -- so not very big) bag and a laptop. I don't really see the value in a tablet (for myself) as I find them very limiting.

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See, I don't understand that, because I NEVER see Apple ads anywhere except at the Verizon store. If Apple has a marketing team, they're subtle as Hell. Steve Jobs' take on sales was always to undersell and over-deliver. And honestly that's not a bad strategy. That was how the Apple II sold so well in the first place, and the iPod as well.

 

Apple did. (past) very hard marketing, very successful. misleading, but successful.

created more fans than anyone would like to admit. "I'm a mac/I'm a PC" -- and lets not forget how perfectly executed the iPhone commercial was. so was the MacBook air's first appearance. Apple did very heavy marketing for their stuff. at least from my perspective (New York)

"When you're in high school you should be doing things, about which you could never tell your parents!"

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Apple did. (past) very hard marketing, very successful. misleading, but successful.

created more fans than anyone would like to admit. "I'm a mac/I'm a PC" -- and lets not forget how perfectly executed the iPhone commercial was. so was the MacBook air's first appearance. Apple did very heavy marketing for their stuff. at least from my perspective (New York)

Apple had (and still does) have a lot of marketing, but if you don't watch TV then you kind of have to go out of your way to see it (for the most part, there are still random ads here and there, but they're not super common). I haven't seen an Apple ad in a long time -- since I stopped watching TV live three years ago. 

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I'd probably agree since windows is more like a full OS? I haven't actually used windows on any smartphone/tablet so I really don't know about either platform to compare it. But then again, I also hate the idea of tablets since if I'm brining a tablet with me then I'm already carrying a bag -- in which case I'd just assume carry a bigger (my laptop bag is big enough for my laptop, it's charger, and a couple wires/phones in the front pocket -- so not very big) bag and a laptop. I don't really see the value in a tablet (for myself) as I find them very limiting.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RDIACVY?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s00

 

That's my laptop bag. This thing has basically replaced my backpack for college, also made by Swiss Gear. It has lasted my since junior year or senior year of high school and is following me into senior year if I even use it anymore. The water bottle holders are nice to have though, so I may not be able to fully replace my backpack.

 

The case holds my Macbook Pro Retina 2014 15" and its charger, the cleaning spray and microfiber cloth for it, my accordion folder used for my classes, at least 3 1" ring binders, external CD/DVD/Blu-Ray Drive, TI-84 calculator, an 8-pack of AAA eneloop batteries, a wall charger for them, extra pens, extra pencil lead, highlighters, a pad each of lined and graph paper, and it still has room before it starts to actually be full. I love this thing honestly.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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Apple did. (past) very hard marketing, very successful. misleading, but successful.

created more fans than anyone would like to admit. "I'm a mac/I'm a PC" -- and lets not forget how perfectly executed the iPhone commercial was. so was the MacBook air's first appearance. Apple did very heavy marketing for their stuff. at least from my perspective (New York)

I'm from NJ and I don't remember ever seeing these things, and the only reason I got an iPhone 5 was because my dad bought smart phones for the family. After getting used to it and finding both iCloud, Notes, and Evernote useful in addition to being able to get texts on my MBPr silently and being able to respond without taking my phone out, I've tried to find a compelling reason to support Android, and I haven't been able to find one. The Samsung Galaxy phones have gotten too big for my hands (same with the iPhone 6 Plus), HTC One M9 turned out to be a dud of a new phone, Droid Turbo needs an update, and the LG G4 did not impress me with battery life over the Iphone 6 in benchmarks or by review, so I went with the iPhone 6. I'm willing to do the work to get out of the walled garden. I fell no compulsion to stay, but I need a reason. Apple did no marketing to get me here either. It just won me over in quality and convenience. I don't see the Apple marketing machine being the reason for its victories. I see the consistency of what it delivers.

 

And yes I know the MBPr is uber expensive for what it is, and I even got burned buying it when I did because I ended up with the 4950HQ model, and the 4980HQ model came out just a couple days after my return period expired for $200 less, not to mention I got it through my university's notebook program which pre-configures their VPN software and wifi access (a royal pain actually to do for a desktop, especially with a Linux Distro) which would have further delayed the swap anyway. If my predecessor master's student hadn't developed for the iPad, I'd have gone a very different route with my laptop choice, but now I'm determined to make this machine last me 7 years like all my desktop PCs have.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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See, I don't understand that, because I NEVER see Apple ads anywhere except at the Verizon store. If Apple has a marketing team, they're subtle as Hell. Steve Jobs' take on sales was always to undersell and over-deliver. And honestly that's not a bad strategy. That was how the Apple II sold so well in the first place, and the iPod as well.

There's more to marketing than ads. Basically, they know how to get the public and the media talking about them without being in-your-face with ads. That's the difference between marketing a lot and actually being good at marketing. If Apple didn't know how to get people talking about them the way that they do, they would not be even half as big even with everything else remaining the same.

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