Boeing patents laser-powered fusion-fission jet engines

[Bouzoo]

Boeing is at it again. Now if this could be built in real life that would be awesome. Maybe when we'll be able to actually control fusion. Afaik scientists are still having problem with that. It's purpose is, of course, to replace turbofan and rocket engines, for higher speeds. 

 

How does it work?

Somewhere in the middle of the engine there is a fusion chamber, with a number of very strong lasers focused on a single point. A hohlraum (pellet) containing a mix of deuterium and tritium (hydrogen isotopes) is placed at this focal point. The lasers are all turned on at the same instant, creating massive pressure on the pellet, which implodes and causes the hydrogen atoms to fuse. (This is called inertial confinement fusion, as opposed to the magnetic confinement fusion that is carried out in a tokamak).

 

According to the patent, the hot gases produced by the fusion are pushed out of a nozzle at the back of the engine, creating thrust. But that's not all! One of the by-products of hydrogen fusion is lots of fast neutrons. In Boeing's patented design, there is a shield around the fusion chamber that's coated with a fissile material (uranium-238 is one example given). The neutrons hit the fissile material, causing a fission reaction that generates lots of heat.

 

Finally, there's some kind of heat exchanger system that takes the heat from the fission reaction, and uses that heat (via a heated liquid or gas) to drive a turbine. This turbine generates the electricity that powers the lasers. Voilà: a fusion-fission rocket engine thing.

 

 

 

I like this a concept, but really don't see it happening anytime soon. Do you think it's possible? Maybe someone with better understanding of physics might be able to tell more about this?

 

Source

Patent

[Oshino Shinobu]

Boeing is either going to make something awesome, or doom us all. 

[ZetZet]

Fucking patents man... Now we will see less progress on this, thanks boeing.

[Florb]

What the actual fuck.

[mr moose]

How do they propose to control the fission of the Uranium?  and what about radiation? It's not like they can cover the whole engine in lead or concrete let alone clean up the thruster output.

[Zeke]

So is it a rocket or a jet engine? Also what's the estimate on Isp and thrust?

 

Also, we can't even achieve more or less sustained fusion in a big-ass reactors, they wanna cram that into a tiny engine? Yep, not happening for fifty years at least.

[ZetZet]

Also, we can't even achieve more or less sustained fusion in a big-ass reactors

We haven't really tried that one yet. Only going to try in a couple of years.

[Bouzoo]

How do they propose to control the fission of the Uranium?  and what about radiation? It's not like they can cover the whole engine in lead or concrete let alone clean up the thruster output.

My thoughts exactly. Not sure how they plan on doing that, unless they have some new material we don't know about.

[Bsmith]

this, i like this, in theory it seems as a pretty viable and reasonably safe way to use nuclearpower for transport

[Ertman]

This seems like a pipe dream for the foreseeable future. Its not really practical right now, and maybe ever. They used to advertise jet turbine cars as a the way of the future, don't see too many of those around.

 

Fucking patents man... Now we will see less progress on this, thanks boeing.

Well without patents we would likely see ZERO progress on this. Zero>Less.

 

How do they propose to control the fission of the Uranium?  and what about radiation? It's not like they can cover the whole engine in lead or concrete let alone clean up the thruster output.

They probably plan to control it via the lined surface itself, probably with a control medium mixed with the fissionable material. Honestly, who knows, it probably was just an idea thrown out there as a possible scenario while drinking. The radiation probably could be maintained at safe levels, but that makes me feel less than safe. 

 

...

 

Also, we can't even achieve more or less sustained fusion in a big-ass reactors, they wanna cram that into a tiny engine? Yep, not happening for fifty years at least.

Well technically small fusion reactors is where this all starts, as for the time frame, it still sounds right, at best. It doesn't really seem like a practical idea though.  

 

this, i like this, in theory it seems as a pretty viable and reasonably safe way to use nuclearpower for transport

 

Is this sarcasm? Cause this seems like a impractical and unsafe way of nuclear power for transport.

[ZetZet]

Well technically small fusion reactors is where this all starts, as for the time frame, it still sounds right, at best. It doesn't really seem like a practical idea though.  

Small fusion reactors can't sustain the reaction, that's why we are building a huge one right now.

They will be practical if we actually get to fusion, the amount of energy we can get that way is insane and there is almost no waste.

[ivhyn]

As far as I know exposing Uranium 238 to neutrons creates Uranium 239, which decays to Neptunium 239 and further to Plutonium...

The idea about nuclear fusion got me interested, recycling some of the energy for fission seems risky to me though.

Not only because of the radiation but also because of highly toxic material which would be spread into the environment should this plane crash.

[PerfectTemplar]

American patent system. Lol, fuck that, hopefully some non US company ignores it as they should.

[Ertman]

Small fusion reactors can't sustain the reaction, that's why we are building a huge one right now.

They will be practical if we actually get to fusion, the amount of energy we can get that way is insane and there is almost no waste.

that's not why they building larger fusion reactors.

As far as I know exposing Uranium 238 to neutrons creates Uranium 239, which decays to Neptunium 239 and further to Plutonium...

The idea about nuclear fusion got me interested, recycling some of the energy for fission seems risky to me though.

Not only because of the radiation but also because of highly toxic material which would be spread into the environment should this plane crash.

Not just if the plane crashes, that's just a worse case, but it would be producing radiation and possibly toxic material without crashing.

[patrickjp93]

How do they propose to control the fission of the Uranium? and what about radiation? It's not like they can cover the whole engine in lead or concrete let alone clean up the thruster output.

That's why they picked Uranium 238. It will produce the lowest gamma radiation of the options. Furthermore, radiation has a very difficult time making it through any metal, and in such small quantities it would likely dissipate before even making it to the ground below due to a lack of local mass.

[patrickjp93]

This seems like a pipe dream for the foreseeable future. Its not really practical right now, and maybe ever. They used to advertise jet turbine cars as a the way of the future, don't see too many of those around.

Well without patents we would likely see ZERO progress on this. Zero>Less.

They probably plan to control it via the lined surface itself, probably with a control medium mixed with the fissionable material. Honestly, who knows, it probably was just an idea thrown out there as a possible scenario while drinking. The radiation probably could be maintained at safe levels, but that makes me feel less than safe.

Well technically small fusion reactors is where this all starts, as for the time frame, it still sounds right, at best. It doesn't really seem like a practical idea though.

Is this sarcasm? Cause this seems like a impractical and unsafe way of nuclear power for transport.

Far less risky than the fission reactors on nuclear subs which haven't had a single incident yet.

[FakezZ]

Oh okay we used to only worry about Nuclear Power plants, now we're gonna get extra legs and arms whenever a plane crashes!  AWESOME!

[Bsmith]

Is this sarcasm? Cause this seems like a impractical and unsafe way of nuclear power for transport.

 

not really sarcasm no, the fact aht U-238 has a decay time of 4.47billion years makes it pretty stable and the risk of it releasing a alpha particle(harmfull) very small.

In fact, over 99% of the natural amount of uranium on earth exists of this isotope.

It is a fact aht it can also release beta particle's and split spontaneus, but the chances for this are so small that it's more likely to decay to thorium-234 and release a alpha particle.

even when the particle splits when intended(or by chance) it doesnt cause a chain reaction like uranium-235.

So yeah in theory it's pretty safe, but since you have to work with nuclear particles it's never completely safe or error proof

[ICantThinkOfAnyGoodName]

Meh, this won't happen because most people hate nuclear power these days.

[SurvivorNVL]

Well, if you couldn't get Trik'Stari on a plane now--you definitely can't in the future.  Still, rather worrying that this was patented.  

Completely off-topic, but now it is breakfast burrito time.

[79wjd]

How do they propose to control the fission of the Uranium?  and what about radiation? It's not like they can cover the whole engine in lead or concrete let alone clean up the thruster output.

Well, fusion actually produces no radiation at all, that's solely produced by fission, and if the engine produces enough power then they can likely contain the radiation.

 

Also, the article bothers me a bit, U-238 isn't fissile :unsure:

 

 

not really sarcasm no, the fact aht U-238 has a decay time of 4.47billion years makes it pretty stable and the risk of it releasing a alpha particle(harmfull) very small.

In fact, over 99% of the natural amount of uranium on earth exists of this isotope.

It is a fact aht it can also release beta particle's and split spontaneus, but the chances for this are so small that it's more likely to decay to thorium-234 and release a alpha particle.

even when the particle splits when intended(or by chance) it doesnt cause a chain reaction like uranium-235.

So yeah in theory it's pretty safe, but since you have to work with nuclear particles it's never completely safe or error proof

Alpha particles don't even have the ability to penetrate skin let alone metal, so even less of a concern.

[Trik'Stari]

Far less risky than the fission reactors on nuclear subs which haven't had a single incident yet.

.....Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't there been a few incidents with reactors on subs? Or are you talking about the current generation?

 

Well, if you couldn't get Trik'Stari on a plane now--you definitely can't in the future.  Still, rather worrying that this was patented.  

Completely off-topic, but now it is breakfast burrito time.

What's with the comments about me lately where I'm not linked?

[79wjd]

.....Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't there been a few incidents with reactors on subs? Or are you talking about the current generation?

 

What's with the comments about me lately where I'm not linked?

There have been no incidents with US nuclear subs, not sure about Russian/English subs. The closest thing with US subs was the USS Thresher, which sank due to a power failure -- the reason for the power failure is undocumented, but if I had to guess it could technically have been caused by a failure with the reactor -- but more likely caused by one of the power linkages. 

[SurvivorNVL]

.....Correct me if I am wrong, but haven't there been a few incidents with reactors on subs? Or are you talking about the current generation?

 

What's with the comments about me lately where I'm not linked?

Shhh... it's called an easter egg :>

[blackadder]

We haven't really tried that one yet. Only going to try in a couple of years.

we have a national ignition facility in America that has been trying for close to year 10 years with limited success. They are getting good at hitting the reaction pellets now and are trying to lower the energy needed.